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JJ Watt - MVP

klockWork said:
They're better off blowing through the blocker that could result in a sack, a crushing QB hit, or a hurried throw that is more likely to produce an incomplete pass or an interception.
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No, they're not. You have nothing to even support the assertion that they would even get the QB hit, much less it having more impact than batting a ball. Remember Belichick having Brady practice against DL with tennis rackets? THAT is impact. I've seen many poor passes come as a result of the threat of JJ swatting one. That's the sort of stuff that doesn't show up on his stat sheet, but it makes him an impact player far beyond a mere sack artist.

You're just wrong. It's OK, we all get to be wrong sometimes. Accept it and move on.
 
For anyone to say that JJ Watt should alter his game in the least, when he is having one of, if not the best, seasons by a defensive player in history, is, in a word, ludicrous.
 
klockWork said:
If I'm the opposing QB and I see Watt stopping behind a lineman to block a pass attempt, I'm saying good stay there. The elite QBs isn't going to get discourage if couple of their passes get tipped. You knock them off their asses a few times they'll be rattled up all day.
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Somehow this reminds me of that old pizza commercial with Jerry Jones and Deion Sanders. The one where Jerry asks him if he wants ten million or fifteen million and Deion answers BOTH.

McNair: What's it gonna be, JJ? Blocked passes or hitting the quarterback.

JJ: BOTH. :texflag: :bat: :texflag:

***************

Klockwork, I can't believe you are making this argument, but please, proceed. :popcorn:
 
Attending the game on Sunday, I was able to watch J.J. on every play. Offensive holding could be called on just about every play with the way linemen are getting beat.

So, I wonder how many of these MVP QBs are having to deal with an uncalled penalty that holds them back on just about every single play? It would be the equivalent of refs letting defenders get away with holding and PI on their receivers all game long.
 
Through 15 games...

5ouypd.jpg


Another new PFF record...

ya10.jpg


...with one more game to go.
 
18 sacks, 43 hits, 10 batted passes. Yeah, he sucks... should try to sack the QBs more often.

:kitten:
 
JB said:
Your link has audio but no video. I wasn't calling you an idiot, but making yourself look like one with your assumption and refusing to listen to any counters to it.

But carry on if you wish. No one is listening to you, and JJ for damn sure isn't going to take your advice.

One of the reasons that JJ is one of the best in the league is those swatted passes, the occasional interception and touchdown off them.
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Video worked with QuickTime
 
JJ has thousands upon thousands of snaps matching his strength, position, leverage and moves up against other players. I'll trust his judgment on whether continuing would result in a sack or he'd be better served by attempting to block.

Really it's pretty silly to armchair that he is consistently wrong in that judgment. It should cause you to revamp your evaluation.

And to top it off coaches around the league disagree with you as we see more players doing it following JJ's success.
 
klockWork said:
The tipped passes by Crick and all the others that happened at a crowded line of scrimmage is not what I'm talking about. It's when defensive players that are behind the los and nearing a QB slowed down on their pass rush moves to put their hands up. If they lucky enough to get their hands on the ball then it's just another incomplete pass by the QB. They're better off blowing through the blocker that could result in a sack, a crushing QB hit, or a hurried throw that is more likely to produce an incomplete pass or an interception.
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There is a fallacy in your scenario. If the pass rushers are on the offense's side of the LoS AND are "nearing the QB", they are very, very unlikely to slow down.
They mostly slow down and go into pass-block mode when they see the QB about to throw and realize continuing to press ahead with the pass rush will be ineffective. Since they realize getting the sack is unlikely, they go to "plan B", disrupt/tip/block the pass or fill the passing lane with arms and hands.
 
JB said:
One of the reasons that JJ is one of the best in the league is those swatted passes, the occasional interception and touchdown off them.
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And not to mention he still leads the league in QB hits ( by a LARGE margin) and is 2nd in sacks.
 
infantrycak said:
JJ has thousands upon thousands of snaps matching his strength, position, leverage and moves up against other players. I'll trust his judgment on whether continuing would result in a sack or he'd be better served by attempting to block.

Really it's pretty silly to armchair that he is consistently wrong in that judgment. It should cause you to revamp your evaluation.

And to top it off coaches around the league disagree with you as we see more players doing it following JJ's success.
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Seriouly, when was the last time you saw Bruce Smith's/Reggie White's/Bob Lilly's names pushed up next a current NFL player's in comparison?

But hey, JJ...

bush_doing_it_wrong.jpg
 
ObsiWan said:
There is a fallacy in your scenario. If the pass rushers are on the offense's side of the LoS AND are "nearing the QB", they are very, very unlikely to slow down.
They mostly slow down and go into pass-block mode when they see the QB about to throw and realize continuing to press ahead with the pass rush will be ineffective. Since they realize getting the sack is unlikely, they go to "plan B", disrupt/tip/block the pass or fill the passing lane with arms and hands.
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Look how close he was from Flacco. As soon as Watt raised his arm to bat a pass he lost all momentum from his bullrush against that LT and Flacco dance back there for another 2 second before JJ regain leverage and chase him up the pocket.

ravs(1).jpg


This one Watt was halfway in the backfield but bit on a pump fake and was on his back heel losing crucial seconds and momentum on applying pressure to the QB. For almost 3 seconds after the pump fake Flacco's eyes were lock away in the opposite direction and was vulnerable to a blind shot hit that could've easily produce a fumble.

ravs(2).jpg
 
klockWork said:
Look how close he was from Flacco. As soon as Watt raised his arm to bat a pass he lost all momentum from his bullrush against that LT and Flacco dance back there for another 2 second before JJ regain leverage and chase him up the pocket.
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Dude.

This is something that you need to let go.

It's really easy to sit out here and say, "Oh, he should have done this or he should have done that" -- I know that for a fact because I've done it myself. But in the heat of battle, having to make a split second decision, no one is going to be perfect. JJ makes the correct decision more often than anyone else but he doesn't make the right decision every time. So picking at this play or that play because he could have gotten a better result is kinda silly.
 
Head Coach Bill O’Brien
(on his thoughts of DE J.J. Watt deserving the MVP award) “Believe me, I understand the question, but I could care less about the MVP. I really could. I know that he could care less about it, too. I think it’s about the team.

I think that when you look at J.J. Watt, he is a great football player. He affects the game on every single play. Whether it’s a run at him or run away from him, a quarterback sack, a batted ball, a quarterback pressure, that’s what I’ll say about J.J. Watt. As far as MVP and co-MVP and this MVP and that MVP, I think if you look at the history of MVPs in any professional sport, does that always equal the championship team? I’m not sure that that does. Meaning, does the championship team have the MVP of the league? I don’t know. You’d have to check that out.

I think it’s all about the team and I think he would be the first to tell you that.”
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klockWork said:
Look how close he was from Flacco. As soon as Watt raised his arm to bat a pass he lost all momentum from his bullrush against that LT and Flacco dance back there for another 2 second before JJ regain leverage and chase him up the pocket.

ravs(1).jpg


This one Watt was halfway in the backfield but bit on a pump fake and was on his back heel losing crucial seconds and momentum on applying pressure to the QB. For almost 3 seconds after the pump fake Flacco's eyes were lock away in the opposite direction and was vulnerable to a blind shot hit that could've easily produce a fumble.

ravs(2).jpg
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The Pencil Neck said:
Dude.

This is something that you need to let go.

It's really easy to sit out here and say, "Oh, he should have done this or he should have done that" -- I know that for a fact because I've done it myself. But in the heat of battle, having to make a split second decision, no one is going to be perfect. JJ makes the correct decision more often than anyone else but he doesn't make the right decision every time. So picking at this play or that play because he could have gotten a better result is kinda silly.
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I want us to draft as many players as we can that make all the screwed up decisions that JJ makes on the field. Maybe then will the Texans **** their drawers enough to finally get to the Super Bowl.:tiphat:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I want us to draft as many players as we can that make all the screwed up decisions that JJ makes on the field. Maybe then will the Texans **** their drawers enough to finally get to the Super Bowl.:tiphat:
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Just two more stupid players like JJ and we'll be the first team D to average 0 points.
 
DX-TEX said:
Rivers McCown thinks if Watt can hit 20 sacks this year (needs 2.5 vs Jags) he wins. Why? Would be the first player EVER since sacks have been tracked to hit 20 sacks in two separate season.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-jj-watt-needs-20-sacks-to-steal-the-nfl-mvp
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I kinda alluded to that a few weeks ago.

It looks like we're going to have a winning record. Then if he does something that no one else has ever done before in such a short amount of time (3 years), it's going to be kinda hard to pass him up for the MVP.

His chances would be even greater if we somehow slip into the play offs.

First, he's gotta get 3 sacks (2.5 really), then we've got to win, then we've got to sneak into the play offs. Then he's a shoe in.

I know it's hard for some to understand, but the only thing that matters in the NFL is winning. No winning record, he could set the NFL sack record two times over in the same season & won't get the MVP.

& even though you finish with a winning record, you really didn't win anything if you're not in the play offs. At least some team in the NFC South will be able to say they won their division & will go to the play offs.
 
Everyone makes the point that the MVP should go to a QB because the position is more valuable than DE so JJ even if a better player, can't be more valuable.

I was thinking, If it's true that JJ is changing completely the way his position is played, maybe this is less valuable for the texans this season.

But how much impact will this JJ season have on the future of the game?

isn't that more valuable overall?
 
Sigma said:
Everyone makes the point that the MVP should go to a QB because the position is more valuable than DE so JJ even if a better player, can't be more valuable.

I was thinking, If it's true that JJ is changing completely the way his position is played, maybe this is less valuable for the texans this season.

But how much impact will this JJ season have on the future of the game?

isn't that more valuable overall?
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People confuse value and necessity.
 
How much more can a 3-4 de do?

Thanks jj for a historic season. You are our nfl MVP without question.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
It'll be criminal if he doesn't win. I don't give a ****.
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Yep. Might as well make it MVoP award
If he doesn't win it. No defensive player will win.

I guess it depends on if the media pumps up watts (no pun intended)

Curious on if talking heads make news about jj watts 2 20 sack seasons. Which has never been done
 
I remember him promising that his amazing 2012 season wouldn't be his best season in the NFL. I thought to myself, how in the world could he top that? Shame on me for doubting him. We are blessed to see such a talent every week that will one day I'm sure be cemented as one of the best in all of football history when it's all said and done.
 
Make it MVOP & MVDP already.... then this entire discussion would be void.. (ok, we can have a MVSTP too... ) :)
 
Malloy said:
Make it MVOP & MVDP already.... then this entire discussion would be void.. (ok, we can have a MVSTP too... ) :)
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They should change it back to Best Player of the Year if you want to get away from that QB slant.
 
J Watt's MVP debate isn't an argument for the Texans as a team. While they still surpassed many expectations at 9-7, their record was easy. Although, it's only fair to mention the Clowney failure and the 4 quarterback position changes. (Rick Smith needs to go btw). Even as a Texans fan, I'll admit the Cowboys offensive line could be in MVP discussion as well. Beast.


Anyway, being the only player in NFL history with multiple 20+ sack seasons, I'll just let these numbers speak for JJ Watt's case this year.

(insert image above)
 
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