xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Seth Payne wasn't too impressed with Andrews.
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JaDeveon Clowney
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
To me, injury prone isn't someone that takes cheap shots to the knees 2 years in a row. Brian Cushing isn't injury prone, Arian Foster on the other hand, a guy who is always tweaking a hammy or groin, or back or something....that's injury prone.
I don't think Clowney is there yet. He just hasn't had a chance to recover from the injury he has.
Or the old turf in New Orleans.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Sometimes you wonder about ego getting tied up with "business" -- which is typical -- when that business is other people's bodies.
If you're business is professional athletes, is the measuring stick how you maximize player's games/minutes played?
If so, does that put you in a position to push for your players to RTP (return to play) sooner than "other" doctor's patients? And who is your client -- the player or the team?
We'd like to think our doctors all follow the ethic of the Hippocratic oath... but I wonder how much pressure is brought to bear when the financial implications of losing your frontmost player -- a JJ Watt, for instance -- for a year?
badboy
Hall of Fame
you would hope that old oath thinggy would come to fore.
Yeah. Exactly.
The words "injury-prone" might not be the best way I would describe it. The inability "to answer the bell" for one reason or another, is a better one.
If it was just the knee injury alone, I'd blow that off. Shut it down, recover, and come back next year.
But my fear is that next year will be the same as this one. A season 2 of "for one reason or another".
THAT is the concern.
yep. That was basically the premise for my question. He is "often sustaining injuries" since drafted by the Texans.
silvrhand
All Pro
His first injury Brian Cushing was blown up by a RB on a blitz because he didn't get his hands down and allowed a running back to explode into his leg, great motor, poor technique.. injury occured. The second was a cheapshot, but if had not been injured in the first one he might not sustain the second one.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You have those backwards.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I thought Slauson rolling him up in the Jets game was 2012, and Jamaal Charles blocking him was in 2013?
My response wasn't directed to how he's dealt with injuries themselves, but rather his inept handling of the "don't have discussions with the press" aspect of them.
He's definitely in good company - We all remember Arian's anti-awesomeness MRI tweet fondly.
TheIronDuke
All Pro
You are correct.
H
humblegeo
Guest
Looks like Tarzan, Plays like Jane. WE GOT SCREWED!
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The Wonderlic really isn't that hard. To do badly requires: 1. dim bulb, 2. scared rabbit (test anxiety) or 3. bad attitude.
My suspicion is that there are equal numbers of each.
Don't see how you can say that... to play like Jane he would have to get on the field. I don't think he went out there and tried to get injured.
To say WE GOT SCREWED like that, one would think you were part of the decision making process. I could just as easily say TTalk got screwed by letting you join the board. You haven't made a single contribution yet that I've seen.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I thought Dr. Kevorkian was Dr. Death. And dead now.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/04/dr-death-jack-kevorkian-suicide
Or not knowing how the wonderlic works and spending too much time on the wrong questions.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Jadeveon Clowney Struggling with Complicated, Less Common Knee Injury
Dave Siebert, M.D.
Nothing in here that we haven't already been educated on all along by our own Dr. CND, but it was posted today using just one of the studies Dr. CND suggested, ignoring the one done in a group of NFL players. (Both were forwarded to Dr. Siebert weeks ago.) Still worth a read, prompts discussion.
Dave Siebert, M.D.
Nothing in here that we haven't already been educated on all along by our own Dr. CND, but it was posted today using just one of the studies Dr. CND suggested, ignoring the one done in a group of NFL players. (Both were forwarded to Dr. Siebert weeks ago.) Still worth a read, prompts discussion.
Pollardized
Division Champ
My sources tell me Clowney suffered a grade A tear in the labia majora, with minor swelling in the labia minora.
Very interesting and informative article and video. Thanks for posting
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
I think it's time the FO starts cleaning house In the team doctor and trainer department
From the article
Maybe the problem is on the decision to get him back on the field...
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
I totally agree with you, I just didn't know that Dr. Lowe was held in such high regard in the medical community. That is also why I ask the questions about who is making decisions to put them back on the field too soon
TexansFight
Veteran
I'm all for trading Clowney for even a 2nd rounder in 2015. I don't trust him. He is a jake and a loser in my book. Clean house. Get rid of Rick Smith, Grier, the entire scouting department as well as the entire medical team and S&C team.
This is for Doc -
By removing the meniscus instead of repairing it, have they weakened the knee permanently.? Or to put in another way, have they destroyed any chance that the knee will come back to pre-injury status, even with the proper amount of rest, with the correct rehab?
Is he now damaged goods?
By removing the meniscus instead of repairing it, have they weakened the knee permanently.? Or to put in another way, have they destroyed any chance that the knee will come back to pre-injury status, even with the proper amount of rest, with the correct rehab?
Is he now damaged goods?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Unless the two are joined at the hip. I have to think there's some type of parasitic or mutually beneficial or just entrenched relationship between those at the top of the organization and team doctors/trainers. Hopefully O'Brien doesn't wash his hands of this and looks into it -- he doesn't have the advantage of knowing the history that we do.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Hehe ok. :vincepalm:
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
I believe they rushed Cushing back the first time. Anybody know how long the current medical staff has been with the team?
They could have waited 3000 weeks with Cush. If Jamaal Charles were to put his helmet in Cushing's knee again, it would have had the same effect.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Yes. How damaged and how far from pre-injury depends on a lot of things, but yes.
ghostlight
Veteran
Ok, now I'm confused as we were talking about Clowney and then the last few comments are about Cush. This post here about Clowney or Cush. Holding my breath.
Texian
Hall of Fame
From a patient standpoint I can confirm what the Doc (CnD) has said about sprained ankles and arthroscopic knee surgery. When I was 10 I severely sprained my left ankle falling out of tree. I'm now 62 and to this day my left ankle has never been as stable as my right ankle. I had arthroscopic surgery on my left knee when I was 30. It took 6 full months to fully recover with no pain. Since the surgery my left knee has never been as strong or as stable as my right knee. When I put considerable stress on the knee jumping or cutting I could've some pain caused by bone on bone. At 62 I don't stress that knee much anymore. However, now I do have some arthritis in that knee.
In my case before the knee operation my knee would swell and I would often have to have it drained to ease the pain and get some motion back in the knee. My doctor explained to me the swelling and pain would continue until the cartilage (meniscus) was repaired or removed. After assessing the damage during the arthroscopic my doctor decided to remove the damaged cartilage.
Really? What about mallet? Should he take a salt tablet too?
One of the dumbest post I have ever read on any message board. The last sentence hits the nail on the head on how I feel about you though.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
From the above article:
And as I pointed out from the beginning......
Soccer players do not have to deal with the extreme resistant forces that the knees must sustain from many angles against 250-300+ pound opposing players.........and yet there is still a very significant difference in the recovery and the consequences of the injury itself AND very much so with the approach to the treatment.
The original Nawabi medical article was one of many articles in my library that I read in my search for pertinent answers on the subject of Clowney's injury.
From the original medical article (cannot post a link):
Most people think of recovery from medial meniscus surgery being quite short......and mistakenly assign these expectations to lateral meniscus surgery.
What you are not told in the Dr. Siebert article is how this study defined return to play:
Whether the player ever saw the field again after the definition had been fulfilled was not a part of this limited study. The study was not set up to follow the player's career beyond that narrow period....so that the true full extent of the consequences of the injury and its treatment was unable to be determined.
What was also not mentioned in the article was the medial meniscectomy 5 week recovery was quite narrow in its range as it applied to each soccer player......i.e., ~ 3-6 weeks, whereas the lateral meniscus group showed a 3-18 week range
ANYTIME you have a meniscal tear, the chances are good that there may be accompanying underlying cartilage damage. Then, if you remove the meniscal segment rather than repair it, that is tissue that is lost forever....it does not grow back..........and the progressive consequences set the time clock rolling. If certain parts of the meniscus are gone, there can be a grinding down of joint cartilage created by a now unstabilized rocking motion of the joint. If there is accompanying cartilage damage to the original meniscus injury, it further exposes underlying tissues....cartilage and/or bone to unprotected further damage. This is especially true in lateral meniscus injury, since the lateral side of the joint carries a much greater portion of the knee joint load. If he was allowed to play on a knee that had a significant amount of meniscus removed......or they left behind frayed edges attempting to preserve meniscus that was lifted and should have been removed or repaired to begin with.
In the every day Joe, maybe the consequences may be something that they can legitimately after full informed consent accept........and not understanding the difference between having an excision vs. a repair is not as crucial. In an elite NFL player, that distinction better be hammered home by the orthopedic surgeon.........one, because most NFL players listen with one ear (and most of the time with half a brain) to what in reality those consequences will definitely be if an excision is chosen........and two, because the player just wants to get back on the field ASAP and typically is being pushed from all sides to the same end. It should be up to the surgeon counter the immediate gratification approach that is so pervasive in the NFL culture.
As an aside, because of Clowney's know problems with his bone spurs....which are direct decendants of an arthritic process, it would be surprising if the don't find that his knee demonstrates arthritic changes consistent with this and his many years of football-induced trauma.......another reason that a repair would have been the only smart long-term decision.
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Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I would say that the Texans medical staff is unethical, but that would imply they had a grasp of the consequences. Maybe they don't know what the hell they're doing.
If you're a media member, be assured that you'd get a lot of fan support if you put the screws to this organization over its medical staff. Cite JJ Watt's arm brace and the actual recovery time for a 3rd degree elbow dislocation. Maybe if more media in large markets laid the facts on the table, you'd see less medical professionals like Dr. Andrews selling out to the league.
A good example of the media doing its job is this article on Deadspin about the unreliability of NFL recovery estimates. The writer admits that his data collection process is flawed, but the contrasts between estimates and reality is conclusive enough.
Link
If you're a media member, be assured that you'd get a lot of fan support if you put the screws to this organization over its medical staff. Cite JJ Watt's arm brace and the actual recovery time for a 3rd degree elbow dislocation. Maybe if more media in large markets laid the facts on the table, you'd see less medical professionals like Dr. Andrews selling out to the league.
A good example of the media doing its job is this article on Deadspin about the unreliability of NFL recovery estimates. The writer admits that his data collection process is flawed, but the contrasts between estimates and reality is conclusive enough.
Link
PapaL
Loose Screw
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Rep coming your way. I was glad when I saw that you posted this article (I was about to do so). RTP (return to play) put out by teams to me so many times seem to be "best case scencario" off-the-wall hopeful, and unrealistic estimates that are there to "calm the natives."
The example of the routine ankle sprain compared to high ankle sprain RTPs coincide with what I've tried to demonstrate in comparing the more serious lateral meniscus injury vs. the more benign more common, familiar medial meniscus injury.
Another point I've tried to emphasize when hearing that "the player made the decision to........":
I've read the book My Injury File: How I Shot, Smoked, And Screwed My Way Through The NFL written by a former NFL WR (Nate Jackson). It chronicles how only after his career did he ever see his detailed medical records........he had no idea how extensive his file and injuries were......nor their true implication.....as he and his team and medical staffs preferred keeping him in a state of perpetual ignorant bliss.
You will be enticed to read the entire book when you read this unbelievably revealing excerpt from the book.
Wow. the excerpt alone is eye-opening. Well worth reading.
drewmar74
disgruntled
Good gravy.... The excerpt has me absolutely cringing.
That plus watching "Casualties of the Gridiron" on YouTube has my head spinning.
Some of these guys hurt so much that it hurts to read / watch.
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