JaDeveon Clowney

[Playoffs]

HIPAA - Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act passed in 1996.

Yes sir. Clowney would have to sign a full disclosure form for the org to release any medical information.

What's been interesting is stories from former players who have had to sue their former teams to gain access to their medical files. I wonder if the current CBA addressed what has been told that in the past, even players didn't have access to those files.

 

[Double Barrel]

Someone mentioned this before, but has it been verified that his lateral meniscus was removed? And if so, how could a second surgery deal with that?

And OB stated on Channel. 13 that the details of the second surgery are to remain secret. WTF is up with that?

According to the book that CND posted, even the players themselves are kept in the dark about their own history of injuries.

Read this excerpt and you realize that teams see these players as commodities:

I've read the book My Injury File: How I Shot, Smoked, And Screwed My Way Through The NFL written by a former NFL WR (Nate Jackson). It chronicles how only after his career did he ever see his detailed medical records........he had no idea how extensive his file and injuries were......nor their true implication.....as he and his team and medical staffs preferred keeping him in a state of perpetual ignorant bliss.

You will be enticed to read the entire book when you read this unbelievably revealing excerpt from the book.

It's kind of depressing, to be honest. I realize that these are grown men making freewill decisions to play the game for lots of money, but at the same time, those decisions are clearly not informed ones if this book is standard operating procedure for NFL teams (and I have no reason to believe that it's not).

As far as Clowney, I don't want to rush to judgment, but can't help but feel like the Houston football curse has struck again.

What's been interesting is stories from former players who have had to sue their former teams to gain access to their medical files. I wonder if the current CBA addressed what has been told that in the past, even players didn't have access to those files.

That was probably the most shocking thing I read in that book excerpt posted by CND.

 

[ObsiWan]

I would say that the Texans medical staff is unethical, but that would imply they had a grasp of the consequences. Maybe they don't know what the hell they're doing.

If you're a media member, be assured that you'd get a lot of fan support if you put the screws to this organization over its medical staff. Cite JJ Watt's arm brace and the actual recovery time for a 3rd degree elbow dislocation. Maybe if more media in large markets laid the facts on the table, you'd see less medical professionals like Dr. Andrews selling out to the league.

A good example of the media doing its job is this article on Deadspin about the unreliability of NFL recovery estimates. The writer admits that his data collection process is flawed, but the contrasts between estimates and reality is conclusive enough.



Link

Thanks for the link. Very insightful.
Confirms what I've suspected.

Makes me wonder, in the day of supposed "increased emphasis on player safety" how Goodell continues to tolerate head coaches that seemingly don't know what the true severity of a given injury might truly be. And what the long term implications of a misdiagnosis might be....

I think he's setting the NFL up for yet another set of long-term health-related lawsuits.

 

[eriadoc]

I realize that these are grown men making freewill decisions to play the game for lots of money, but at the same time, those decisions are clearly not informed ones if this book is standard operating procedure for NFL teams (and I have no reason to believe that it's not).

Not just uninformed, but the facts are deliberately obfuscated, it would appear.

 

[Double Barrel]

Thanks for the link. Very insightful.
Confirms what I've suspected.

Makes me wonder, in the day of supposed "increased emphasis on player safety" how Goodell continues to tolerate head coaches that seemingly don't know what the true severity of a given injury might truly be. And what the long term implications of a misdiagnosis might be....

I think he's setting the NFL up for yet another set of long-term health-related lawsuits.

I honestly think the trend of "increased emphasis on player safety" is nothing but spin.

Otherwise, they would not have Thursday night football, would never talk about an 18 game schedule, and they would force teams to respect the medical community with regards to realistic rehab schedules for many of these serious injuries.

Then finding out that players have to sue their former teams to gain access to their own medical records just puts a cherry on top of the whole subject.

 

[steelbtexan]

I honestly think the trend of "increased emphasis on player safety" is nothing but spin.

Otherwise, they would not have Thursday night football, would never talk about an 18 game schedule, and they would force teams to respect the medical community with regards to realistic rehab schedules for many of these serious injuries.

Then finding out that players have to sue their former teams to gain access to their own medical records just puts a cherry on top of the whole subject.

Just know that God'ell is full of it. He could care less about anything but,


1. Power
2. $$$$$

The Concussion lawsuit defense and changing of the rules are nothing but God'ell's/Qwners way of paying as little $$$$ as possible to former players. God'ell does nothing without the bottom line in mind 1st and foremost. God'ell has no long term what's good for the game or long term future of the NFL in mind. Unlike Rozelle/Wellinton Mara who were all about the future of the NFL which is what made the NFL the most popular sport in this country.

 

[Playoffs]

I tried going through, but there was a lot of information to sift through. So I figured I would be lazy and ask again.

Bringing these forward for Dr. CND...

...
And, as I have posted in the past, as far as the meniscus surgery he underwent last year, since the meniscus tissue was REPAIRED instead of REMOVED, the long-term prognosis should also be good. With REMOVAL, you are exposing underlying bone or at very least thinning out the protective cartilage covering. This sets the stage for the development and progression of arthritis. With REPAIR, you are laying down and securing the separated cartilage back into place so you are giving the bone the best chance to regaining full protective coverage.

This is not a MEDIAL meniscus.........this is a LATERAL meniscus injury/excision......a much worse animal that NEEDS much more rehab time.......whether he ends up being given it or not.

If it is an isolated lateral meniscus tear, I would expect the spectrum closer to 6-8 weeks for full recovery from this surgery. The problem is that a lateral meniscus can be associated with MCL and/or ACL injuries. Neither of these injuries would surprise me as a finding at surgery.......especially an MCL. If this would be the case, recovery could be expected to be significantly longer.

From the picture below, imagine the lateral meniscus being crushed (coming down wobbly and hard from his jump). Such a crush would bend the knee joint to that side (creating a closed angle). The resulting bend on that side would cause the other side of the joint (the MCL side) to be forced into an open angle.....stretching/tearing the MCL which is there as a check ligament to prevent this type of movement.

This is actually a diagram of a congenital condition mimicking essentially the same type relationship of the knee position I am speaking of above.

Lateral meniscus tears can be caused by disruption of hip mechanics, especially if chronic. As any of you that have followed my medical posts on Clowney would know, sports hernias in most cases have been found to be associated with hip problems (especially femoral acetabular impingment). Most of the time, if the hip problem is not addressed, it lends itself to continued faulty core and hip mechanics which in turn encourage compromised performance and/or significantly increase the subsequent risk for future lower limb injuries (not to mention recurrent sports hernia problems). And let's not forget the chronic bone spur problems which encourages hip mechanical problems to begin with.

(You can also see from the skeleton diagram above how faulty alignment starting with the hips extending down to the knees and ankles can create an ongoing mechanical joint stress nightmare.)

At this early stage, the sampling of injury examples is too small to derive any true conclusions. Yes, Clowney was taken to surgery quickly. But with a lateral meniscus tear, as opposed to a medial meniscus, the decision is usually empirically made for you. I am not sure that the decision for "excision" of the meniscus tissue was made because the extent of meniscus damage was very small....or it was simply to avoid losing him for the season by doing a "repair." Not addressing his bone spurs and the significant possibility of a brewing hip problem is still somewhat concerning to me.

What we do know is that it will be more difficult (but not necessarily impossible) to determine what the injuries and the extent of the injuries are than with the last regime. But recovery times and re-injury rates will help tell the stories.

The only time that we will ever know for sure that OB is lying to us is if the coroner is called in.

With the estimate of 4-6 weeks given by the Texans, they have to be talking about a very small lateral meniscus tear in which they intend to be "removing" a small portion of the meniscus (removal of any portion of a meniscus is referred to as a "meniscectomy"). If they go in there and decide to perform a "repair" of the meniscus or if they have to remove a significant section of the meniscus, I would not expect him to return this season. (I explained the "excision" vs. "repair" implications in a Louis Nix thread a while back.......Nix underwent the latter.) Keep in mind that lateral meniscus tears when compared to comparable tears in the medial meniscus carry a greater degree of concern as far as return to play and the level at which the performance may be affected upon return.

I'd like to share with you the abstract of a very recent and very-appropriate-to-this-discussion study that came out in the American Journal of Sports Medicine just a couple of months ago.......co-authored by Dr. James Andrew the "orthopedic guru."

Return to Play After Partial Lateral Meniscectomy in National Football League Athletes.
Aune KT1, Andrews JR2, Dugas JR2, Cain EL Jr2.

BACKGROUND:
Lateral meniscal injury is a common and possibly career-threatening injury among players in the National Football League (NFL). The rate of return to play (RTP) and factors that affect RTP after lateral meniscal injury in NFL players are currently not defined.
PURPOSE:
The aims of this study were to determine the rate of RTP to regular-season NFL game play of NFL players after arthroscopic partial lateral meniscectomy and to identify factors that can predict the ability to return to play.
STUDY DESIGN:
Case series; Level of evidence, 4.
METHODS:
Seventy-two patients undergoing 77 arthroscopic lateral partial meniscectomies were followed to determine the rate of RTP (defined as successful RTP in at least 1 regular-season NFL game after meniscectomy) and factors predicting players' ability to return to play. Perioperative variables were recorded using retrospective chart review. Players' heights and weights, dates of return, draft rounds, and counts of games, starts, and seasons both before and after meniscectomy were all collected from statistical databases maintained by the NFL. Chi-square and Student t tests were performed to assess differences among covariates with respect to an athlete's ability to return to play, and odds ratios were calculated as appropriate. All percentages were calculated as percent of total procedures performed (n = 77).
RESULTS:
Of the 77 partial lateral meniscectomies performed, 61% (n = 47) resulted in the athlete returning to play at his previous level of competition with an average length of time to RTP of 8.5 months; 19 (40%) of those who returned were still active in the NFL at the time of follow-up. Age at time of surgery, games and seasons played before surgery, and individual position were not significantly different between those who did and did not return to play. Undergoing a concomitant procedure did not affect an athlete's ability to return to play, nor did concurrent arthroscopic anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction affect a player's likelihood to return to play. Players drafted in the first 4 rounds of the NFL draft were 3.7 times more likely to return to play than players drafted after the fourth round, and players who started more than 46.2% of their games played (the mean value for this population) were 2.8 times more likely to return to play. Speed-position players (running backs, receivers, linebackers, and defensive backs) were 4.0 times less likely to return to play than non-speed position players (linemen and tight ends).
CONCLUSION:
The majority of NFL players undergoing arthroscopic lateral meniscectomy are able to return to play. Players selected earlier in the NFL draft and who are listed as starters in more of their games are more likely to return to play, as are linemen and tight ends. It is significantly more difficult for running backs, receivers, linebackers, and defensive backs to return to play.

For those interested in additional details of the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24914032

Keep the following in mind re. this study.

Among those who returned, the average length of time until return was 8.5 months, although 4 players returned during the same season. Regarding those 4 procedures, 2 surgeries occurred in October, with an average return time of 29 days, and the other 2 occurred in December, with return after 19 days in each case. However, 1 of these early returners required a subsequent partial lateral meniscectomy immediately after the season in
which he underwent the original surgery.

It would seem that the 4 short rehab outliers had very minimal meniscus damage in order to return so much sooner than the 8.5 month average. We can only hope that Clowney is one of those with minimal damage. However, we must always remember that short return to play period forced early due to inadequate rehab tends to carry bad outcomes.

Because the Texans put out such a short return to play prediction, I had to assume that the excision was a VERY small area. And yet I stated in an early post that I felt that rehab if all went well would legitimately require at least 6-8 weeks.......if all went well........and the injury was very minor (without additional "withheld" injury).

The reason that rehab is so much longer and harder than for the medial meniscus is that the lateral meniscus has been shown to be responsible for about 70% of load transmission across the joint.

 

[steelbtexan]

Bringing these forward for Dr. CND...

Thanks MSR

 

[cuppacoffee]

?? What I do?


Anyway, his job as moderator is just to make sure everyone follows the rules. There ain't no rules about being a dick. As long as he doesn't insult you.... there's no reason he can't be a moderator.

Wait......What............You calling Icak a dick?

I'm gonna tell...

 

[infantrycak]

Wait......What............You calling Icak a dick?

I'm gonna tell...

Damn, didn't realize he was that perceptive.

 

[steelbtexan]

Damn, didn't realize he was that perceptive.

Perception is sometimes a funny thing.

 

[Troy Chapman]

Bringing these forward for Dr. CND...

Big thanks for that, explains a lot now.

 

[thunderkyss]

Damn, didn't realize he was that perceptive.

I wouldn't have noticed if TexanFight didn't say something. Maybe I should have PM'd him.

 

[Marcus]

I should have done a better job of illustrating my point in my earlier post.

I understand how HIPAA rules affect disclosure of medical information. But it seems as if these rules are inconsistently applied to me. Why was the medical info of the 1st surgery not kept under wraps? Where did all this "meniscus" info originate if these rules were in effect?

Anyone see what I'm getting at, or is it just me?

 

[eriadoc]

I should have done a better job of illustrating my point in my earlier post.

I understand how HIPAA rules affect disclosure of medical information. But it seems as if these rules are inconsistently applied to me. Why was the medical info of the 1st surgery not kept under wraps? Where did all this "meniscus" info originate if these rules were in effect?

Anyone see what I'm getting at, or is it just me?

No, it's not just you. I've thought for years that the NFL thumbs its nose at HIPAA. When it suits their purposes to do so, they seem to leak info on injuries. Or maybe I just suspect it's them behind the leaks.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Something that may be interesting in response to Playoffs and others here, from the new CBA:

What medical rights do players have?

The CBA gives players the right to a second medical opinion concerning their physical ability or inability to play football. The club must pay for this provided the player:

First consults with the club physician prior to seeing the second opinion physician; and
Makes sure that the physician rendering the second opinion provides the club with a copy of his/her report.

If a player is a candidate for surgery, he has the right to select a surgeon of his choice to perform the surgery. However, unless the surgery is an emergency, the player must first consult the club physician and give due consideration to any recommendation made by the club physician. All medical bills are to be paid by the club.

The CBA also gives a player the right to examine his medical or trainers' records twice a year--once during the pre-season and again after the regular season. Also, a player or former player may obtain a copy of his medical file upon request during the off-season, and his personal physician may obtain a copy of his medical records at any time. If the club physician notifies any club representative that a player has a medical condition which could adversely affect his performance or health, the physician must also notify the player. If the condition can be significantly aggravated by the player continuing to play, the physician must notify the player of this in writing before he can return to the field.

Particularly interesting that players don't have access to their own medical records DURING the regular season. If they are injured during this period, evidently at a time when it's most imperative to make informed good decisions, they must rely only on direct communication from the team physician......and trust that their singular opinion/interpretation or their revelations are complete for proper informed consent including alternatives and potential consequences of each.

.................If these were rules that you had to live by, how would you feel about your limited access to your records and the trust in the appropriateness of your care?.................Of course, if you could only be patient, you would be assured that you could get your record ~4 months (period of an NFL season) later to see why you were all messed up............

 

[TexansFight]

At least mussop stuck to the facts - DJ said it.

And for the record I regard insults from you as compliments. So keep on plugging Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

DJ told the media what JD Clowney told him about how he got injured. You are completely wrong again and are a complete jerk about it.

 

[Playoffs]

If the club physician notifies any club representative that a player has a medical condition(note not surgical condition) which could adversely affect his performance or health, the physician must also notify the player.

The bolded part in red tells you these physicians are not working for the player, but for the team. (Why else would your doctor have to be instructed to notify you of your

condition.)

So there's no advocate in the room for the player -- and some of these guys -- I don't care their age -- are just not sophisticated enough to comprehend the gobbledygook medical terminology and implications. I guarantee you right now I could don a lab coat and tell Louis Nix, III that "we" have decided to replace his right knee with his left knee, and vice versa, and he'd be like, "Okay, you're the doctor."

The CBA also gives a player the right to examine his medical or trainers' records twice a year--once during the pre-season and again after the regular season.

Big of them to allow it twice a year. (But not during the season)

So basically players sign away any HIPAA rights. Nice.

 

[JB]

DJ told the media what JD Clowney told him about how he got injured. You are completely wrong again and are a complete jerk about it.

That would be hearsay

 

[TexansFight]

That would be hearsay

infantrycak claims JD Clowney never said the field contributed to his injury. He is dead wrong and continues to claim that he never said anything. Either he is an obstinate fool or a liar. Take your pick.

 

[JB]

infantrycak claims JD Clowney never said the field contributed to his injury. He is dead wrong and continues to claim that he never said anything. Either he is an obstinate fool or a liar. Take your pick.

Or Cak believes that DJ was putting words in Clowneys mouth... idk

 

[Playoffs]

That would be hearsay

Excited utterance.

 

[Texian]

?? What I do?


Anyway, his job as moderator is just to make sure everyone follows the rules. There ain't no rules about being a dick. As long as he doesn't insult you.... there's no reason he can't be a moderator.

Cak does more than his fair of insults and name calling, posts only to argue, the poster child of Internet tough Guy, that's why he's on IGNORE.

There was a tear in the lateral meniscus. If left untreated, the tear would have continued to spread. They had the choice to repair it, or treat it so the tear would not progress. They chose to treat it, which entails removing the torn area.

So the short answer is that they removed a part of it.

The second surgery is probably to address something that resulted from a complication from the first surgery.

Wonder if additional damage was done from coming back to quick and trying to play with a bad knee????

Ahh ok, I thought yesterday he just announced the decision to go see him.

Maybe it was the threat of going to see him that did the trick?

I think the timeline was he announced Andrew visit on Tue, visit w/ Andrews on Wed and went on IR Thu.

 

[infantrycak]

Or Cak believes that DJ was putting words in Clowneys mouth... idk

Or was mistaken. We do not have a quote from JD, we have one from DJ. Not sure why that observation has panties bunched. Everyone's free to regard DJ's recitation as truth. Doesn't make what I said in error or a lie.

Excited utterance.

Not flying but good research.

 

[Marcus]

Read this excerpt and you realize that teams see these players as commodities

It's kind of depressing, to be honest. I realize that these are grown men making freewill decisions to play the game for lots of money, but at the same time, those decisions are clearly not informed ones if this book is standard operating procedure for NFL teams (and I have no reason to believe that it's not).

I did read it, and yes, it is very depressing. It puts a big sour taste in my mouth about the game itself. How would anyone, in his right mind, if properly informed, want to subject himself to that? I think that excerpt should be a reading requirement to any responsible parent that truly gives a **** about their kids.

As far as Clowney, I don't want to rush to judgment, but can't help but feel like the Houston football curse has struck again.

Yep. If he indeed had material removed from his knee, instead of repaired, in the interest of expediency, that confirms to me right there, that he will never be the player worth a #1 overall. You'd think after 3 times, you'd get at least one of them right. And then Indy gets only one shot at it, and they hit a grand slam.

 

[Marshall]

I use to come here to talk football and crack jokes. This has turned in high school. Boohoo someone is mean to me. Here's an idea - don't engage them in conversation and put them on your block list. Move on in life.

So...how's Clowney's knee today? It should have it's own Twitter by now.

In my suburban high school, I was more worried about knives and assault than mere words exchanged. And I lived in an almost all white district in the good old days. Fortunately, the worst were in prison within a few years where a few didn't make the transition.

 

[Marshall]

What's been interesting is stories from former players who have had to sue their former teams to gain access to their medical files. I wonder if the current CBA addressed what has been told that in the past, even players didn't have access to those files.

New Law - Something I rarely recommend. Short and sweet.

All medical records of any type are the property of the patient and all storage and maintenance of such records by anyone else are as custodians only. Notwithstanding any document to the contrary, this is an inalienable right.

 

[Double Barrel]

I did read it, and yes, it is very depressing. It puts a big sour taste in my mouth about the game itself. How would anyone, in his right mind, if properly informed, want to subject himself to that? I think that excerpt should be a reading requirement to any responsible parent that truly gives a **** about their kids.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that felt that way after reading it.

I got a copy for my dad, but plan to read parts of it to my youngest son who just finished his first season of tackle football. Obviously some parts are not suitable for a 12 yo, but I will read to him the parts about injuries and how the system tends to disregard your humanity for the benefit of the team.

Yep. If he indeed had material removed from his knee, instead of repaired, in the interest of expediency, that confirms to me right there, that he will never be the player worth a #1 overall. You'd think after 3 times, you'd get at least one of them right. And then Indy gets only one shot at it, and they hit a grand slam.

Damn, I never thought about it that way. I hate Indy...

 

[ObsiWan]

infantrycak claims JD Clowney never said the field contributed to his injury. He is dead wrong and continues to claim that he never said anything. Either he is an obstinate fool or a liar. Take your pick.

Unless you produce a quote on this matter - from Clowney himself - then it's second hand "testimony". That's Cak's point.

 

[thunderkyss]

.



Yep. If he indeed had material removed from his knee, instead of repaired, in the interest of expediency, that confirms to me right there, that he will never be the player worth a #1 overall. You'd think after 3 times, you'd get at least one of them right. And then Indy gets only one shot at it, and they hit a grand slam.

I'm not a doctor, but that's not the way I understand it (more than likely I'll be corrected by a doctor, but that's ok). it's really going to depend on how much was taken & from where, but more than likely he'll never be the player he should be for as long as he would have.

From what I understand, the Texans' blunder was not listening to JD's body, pushing him into the line up & into games prolonged his recovery. Had they responded to the pain & swelling with adequate rest, maybe JD would be playing now on a good knee. But since they pushed him into service he never really got healthy.

However, the Texans probably navigated the issue the way they did because they didn't believe they could trust him. They believed there was "motivation" issues.

Texans fans should feel good about the guy knowing he had real damage, real pain, & he played anyway, or tried to.

 

[CoreyG]

I did read it, and yes, it is very depressing. It puts a big sour taste in my mouth about the game itself. How would anyone, in his right mind, if properly informed, want to subject himself to that? I think that excerpt should be a reading requirement to any responsible parent that truly gives a **** about their kids.



Yep. If he indeed had material removed from his knee, instead of repaired, in the interest of expediency, that confirms to me right there, that he will never be the player worth a #1 overall. You'd think after 3 times, you'd get at least one of them right. And then Indy gets only one shot at it, and they hit a grand slam.

You are way too negative.

Colts tanked at the right time. And it was a unanimous choice that not even Rick Smith could have mucked up.

The Texans also drafted JJ Watt LOL! That alone trumps the number ones.

You got possibly the GOAT on defense with the 11th pick in the draft. Come on BRO!

 

[mussop]

HIPAA - Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act passed in 1996.

Its about time you did something besides belittling with a condescending attitude that detracts from this board.

 

[infantrycak]

Its about time you did something besides belittling with a condescending attitude that detracts from this board.

You've been below par, giving me nothing to harp on. Catch your snap.

 

[Vance87]

You've been below par, giving me nothing to harp on. Catch your snap.

Is 'Catch your Snap' some sort of archaic phrase from the 70s?

 

[infantrycak]

Is 'Catch your Snap' some sort of archaic phrase from the 70s?

Total geezer reference but I figure you're smart enough to figure it out.

 

[Marshall]

Total geezer reference but I figure you're smart enough to figure it out.

The only snap this old geezer heard about was snap beans.

 

[infantrycak]

The only snap this old geezer heard about was snap beans.

Ok mid geezer. Done the peas and "catch your snap." Maybe the yoots will fill us in on the new terminology.

 

[Vance87]

Total geezer reference but I figure you're smart enough to figure it out.

 

[mussop]

You've been below par, giving me nothing to harp on. Catch your snap.

That was a dig at Texanfight catch your snap, crackle and pop.

 

[infantrycak]

That was a dig at Texanfight catch your snap, crackle and pop.

Oh no, they're seeing through me, and I was so subtle about it.

 

[Texecutioner]

Everyone that blasted and waived off all of the warning signs that SC's coaching staff leaked last off season and bought into the hype of Clowney sure are looking like damn fools now. Shoot, that thread about Clowney went on and on with spin after spin for why he couldn't produce 4 sacks and why he dogged it in his last Junior year, and all of the excuses for his lack of a non stop motor.

Texian and talked about these warning signs and his danger from injuries with the bone spurs again and again and people just listened to the hype that was Mel Kiper and all of these other ridiculous scouts. Dude hardly had pressure at all that last season of college and yet people ignored it. The Texans got literally nothing out of this dude this year. Smith and Mcnair clearly learned nothing after they spent years with Mario when he had warning signs all.over the place before we drafted his ass too.

The Texans aren't cursed. They are just one of the dumbest NFL franchises in NFL history. They deserve all of the backlash they get honestly. Keeping Kubiak for 3 to 4 years to long, keeping Carr an extra year, drafting Mario, then drafting Clowney after the same warning signs were there but even stronger this time around. The only competent thing they have done was get O'Brien, and hell the jury is still out on him as well. Drafting Watt was Wade's doing along with all of the other defensive moves we made that off season.

 

[JB]

so... how you doin' Tex?

Tell us how you really feel, no need to sugar coat it

 

[Texecutioner]

so... how you doin' Tex?

Tell us how you really feel, no need to sugar coat it

I was furious when we drafted him JB. He was all about himself last season at SC. I couldn't understand at all at how he even stayed as a top ten prospect with the average season he had along with the negative reports about his character from his own God Damn coaches!! And shoot, I posted a ton of information about all of the busts that were these D Line freaks that get drafted high every year. It is a very high bust rate position. Motor is and always will be the biggest indicator for for the potential of that type of position. Clowney's was way to questionable. He had Mario Williams/Vernon Gholston written all over him. So far he has been worse.

 

[Dan B.]

Is now the right time to point put that Mario Williams was the AFC defensive player of the month, is fifth in the NFL in sacks, and anchors a top 5 defense? What a bust....

#1 pick Blake Griffin missed his entire first NBA season due to injury, after also being injured his last year at OU (Dude missed more games than Clowney, who sat out ONE game in his collegiate career). What a bust....

I'm pretty sure Spurrier would kill to have Clowney back right now. They won 11 games every year Clowney played there. They won 6 this year. They had the 11th ranked defense in 2012, and finished 11th again last year. They rank 91st this year.

 

[JB]

I was furious when we drafted him JB. He was all about himself last season at SC. I couldn't understand at all at how he even stayed as a top ten prospect with the average season he had along with the negative reports about his character from his own God Damn coaches!! And shoot, I posted a ton of information about all of the busts that were these D Line freaks that get drafted high every year. It is a very high bust rate position. Motor is and always will be the biggest indicator for for the potential of that type of position. Clowney's was way to questionable. He had Mario Williams/Vernon Gholston written all over him. So far he has been worse.

yeah I know you were furious. IIRC I wanted Watkins but knew we wouldn't take him, so was hoping for Bortles or Bridgewater. Robinson would have worked. Would have liked a shot at CJ Mosely also

 

[Nitrofish]

The funny thing is, even those who are commenting on all of the other players they wanted instead of Clowney. Had we taken any of those players and they played like they have on the teams they are on, and Clowney went to another team and lit it up you all would be crying and asking why we didn't take Clowney. That is was a no brainer and our FO are imbeciles. You know it's true.

 

[Scooter]

The funny thing is, even those who are commenting on all of the other players they wanted instead of Clowney. Had we taken any of those players and they played like they have on the teams they are on, and Clowney went to another team and lit it up you all would be crying and asking why we didn't take Clowney. That is was a no brainer and our FO are imbeciles. You know it's true.

clowney wasnt on my radar. had we passed and our guy was injured while clowney went big - i'd have only the standard jealously, not regret. considering that clowney's dang near the only non-quarterback to lack production this season, the "what if" scenarios don't have quite the intended impact. heck just look at the online count for the draft. most knew we'd take clowney and he inspired ... lethargy. how does a first round "once in a generation" talent promote no real passion? 1/3 of the fans wanted clowney, 1/3 wanted someone else, and 1/3 didn't care. the assumption that any majority was sold on one situation or would revolt against something is quite simply wrong.

 

[LikeMike]

Everyone that blasted and waived off all of the warning signs that SC's coaching staff leaked last off season and bought into the hype of Clowney sure are looking like damn fools now. Shoot, that thread about Clowney went on and on with spin after spin for why he couldn't produce 4 sacks and why he dogged it in his last Junior year, and all of the excuses for his lack of a non stop motor.

Texian and talked about these warning signs and his danger from injuries with the bone spurs again and again and people just listened to the hype that was Mel Kiper and all of these other ridiculous scouts. Dude hardly had pressure at all that last season of college and yet people ignored it. The Texans got literally nothing out of this dude this year. Smith and Mcnair clearly learned nothing after they spent years with Mario when he had warning signs all.over the place before we drafted his ass too.

The Texans aren't cursed. They are just one of the dumbest NFL franchises in NFL history. They deserve all of the backlash they get honestly. Keeping Kubiak for 3 to 4 years to long, keeping Carr an extra year, drafting Mario, then drafting Clowney after the same warning signs were there but even stronger this time around. The only competent thing they have done was get O'Brien, and hell the jury is still out on him as well. Drafting Watt was Wade's doing along with all of the other defensive moves we made that off season.

Maybe that draft pick was a huge mistake. Maybe it wasn't. Clowney was spectacular in preseason. Yeah I know, preseason doesn't mean much. Then he got injured his first game back. That's about as bad luck as you can get. Everyone can get injured. Clowneys injury history didn't look too bad.

Now we will have I wait and see if he can come back strong or if he is damaged goods. But I think from a pure talent perspective, he was the best pick. And from the position of need angle, he was pretty close to the top. I can't hate the signing, I just hate how it turned out. But we have to wait at least another year to really judge it.

 

[Lucky]

Texian and talked about these warning signs and his danger from injuries with the bone spurs again and again and people just listened to the hype that was Mel Kiper and all of these other ridiculous scouts.

The Texans aren't cursed. They are just one of the dumbest NFL franchises in NFL history. They deserve all of the backlash they get honestly. Keeping Kubiak for 3 to 4 years to long, keeping Carr an extra year, drafting Mario, then drafting Clowney after the same warning signs were there but even stronger this time around.

You're all over the place on this. I get that you want to say "I told ya so". Maybe his knee injury does directly stem from his previous issues. Maybe it's from landing in a hole in the turf. I don't know. But then you turn around and complain about Clowney's work ethic. What evidence do you have that's been an issue here? That's rhetorical, there is no evidence.

And you want to add the Clowney selection to the Mario selection? Two different regimes? And in what universe was taking Mario a mistake? Was Mario a great #1 overall pick? No. But was he the right pick for the Texans? Absolutely. He has outperformed all of the other top picks from that draft who were considered at #1. Hands down. And Mario would be the 1st player taken again if all of those players were available now.

So rant away. But the fact is, we know crap about what is going to happen with Clowney in the future. Year one was a bust. That alone doesn't make the pick a total bust.

 

[IDEXAN]

He had Mario Williams/Vernon Gholston written all over him. So far he has been worse.

That just blew the azz-end out of any cred you might have had because Mario & Gholston are totally apples and oranges. Surely you must know that Mario is a multi-year probowler, was the highest paid defensive player ever in the NFL until JJ just got his new contract, and is currently having another stud year as he's #4 in sacks in the NFL.
Are you a Colts or Jags fan or something ?