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JaDeveon Clowney

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CloakNNNdagger said:
I would find it difficult to believe that during the first arthroscopy, additional significant degenerative joint cartilage damage in his knee unrelated to the recent acute injury was not encountered.
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Could this be why OB said it was an old injury? Did they know about the problem and try (or allow him) to get him to play through it? I know it's all guesswork, but concerning
 
Double Barrel said:
I really need to stop reading about the Clowney thing. It's downright depressing to suffer through a 2-14 season and have this happen to your 1.1 pick. A team (and fanbase) earns that pick by crawling through one helluva' crappy season, much like Andy Dufresne escaping Shawshank prison through the sewage system.

I need to start maintaining the mentality that Clowney was never a Texan, and if he works out in the end, it's a bonus. Otherwise, banish it from my thought process. I'm getting no positive vibes from this story.
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I hear you man.
I feel like I should be able to pinch myself and wake up from this nightmare. I mean if it's such a complicated, severe, really exotic injury, why can't it be to one of the many undrafted FA rooks, or maybe a late or mid round pick instead of the #1 overall pick in the whole fricken Draft. And if it's the top pick, why not just an ole run-of-the-mill, mundane ACL instead of this nightmare ?
 
JB said:
Could this be why OB said it was an old injury? Did they know about the problem and try (or allow him) to get him to play through it? I know it's all guesswork, but concerning
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I believe that in the context of his statement, he was referring to acute cartilage damage due to the same acute injury that caused the meniscus injury (found at the time of the first arthroscopy).
 
I find it difficult to believe that Clowney had any major knee damage/problems prior to the draft. I remember everyone being completely over the moon with Clowney's pro day, jumping over 8 bags, picking up tennis balls and all the change of direction drills he was put threw by Crennel. JC blew everyone away. Something you don't do with a bum knee. IMHO a bad turf is the culprt.
 
They said this, could be a,12+ month rehab I don't think clown will play, pre season. Or week 1,

I don't think he, ready for this hard rehab coming his, way or maybe he is, lol all loot of down time

Maybe he, won't ever be the same again Rick smith is done imo lol if this pick is a, bust
 
Texian said:
I find it difficult to believe that Clowney had any major knee damage/problems prior to the draft. I remember everyone being completely over the moon with Clowney's pro day, jumping over 8 bags, picking up tennis balls and all the change of direction drills he was put threw by Crennel. JC blew everyone away. Something you don't do with a bum knee. IMHO a bad turf is the culprt.
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I bet his knees were as big as basketballs that night.
 
Just saw this in chron.com. Doesn't sound to good.

“He’s screwed,” Cherilus told the Indianapolis Star. “His game is all about explosion. That’s a problem. I’m out there dancing. I’m an offensive lineman. That’s a different ballgame. He’s screwed. I’m just being honest.”
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Here's a link to the rest of the article. http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...exans-clowney-is-screwed-after-microfracture/

Don't know if Doc (CND) has addressed this yet but maybe he can let us know if this is what Clowney is up against or if there are better odds of his return to his normal self (explosive, quick).
 
Cherilus also said this:

“He has to be fully, fully committed,” Cherilus said. “They told me I would be back in 12 months. I fought and came back in nine months. But it wasn’t right. It set me back for another six weeks. You are going to deal with stuff for the rest of your career. Period. You’re going to have to learn how to deal with it. And you have to be extremely disciplined. You have to do all the little things. Man, I’m telling you – it’s hard.”
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Other than the mechanics of the joint being degraded, he has to come back from the muscle atrophy. We probably won't know if he has a chance until late 2015.

Silver lining: Admittedly, anything positive from this is a stretch. I was listening to one of the local Austin sports shows, and Rod Babers was making a point about how some of the best NFL players achieved greatness because they always had a chip on their shoulder, and always had something to prove. People like JJ Watt and Aaron Rodgers. McNair broached the topic prior to the draft, stating how Watt had to work hard for everything he earned, and Clowney was accustomed to success through his natural athleticism. If anything positive could be gained from this setback, it would be that the extreme discipline required for rehab is permanently embedded in his work habits in the future, and he will always have something to prove to those who have written him off.




...Or he could lose all lateral quickness and be out by 2016.
 
What I worry about is how motivated will Jadeveon Cowney be to not only return during the 2015 season, but become an all pro caliber player in the NFL? How much greatness is inside his heart and does he have the mental drive to put aside the millions he already has in his bank account and actually work hard for his next payday?

People always said he's another Mario Williams well "Super Mario" has become a pretty damn good player and has lived up to his $100 million contract with the Bills: 10.5, 13 and 12 sacks the past three seasons in a Bills uniform, this one included with three games left. He may rack up 16 or 17 if he has a big game or two. This could be his seventh seasons that he started in all 16 games. He's played on one good foot before and toughed out some pain. Above all else I respect players who are dependable and want to play regardless of how their body feels.

I wish we were getting the next Mario Williams with Clowney. As of right now the jury is still out and it's going to be a very long wait just to find out how good he'll become. I'm tired of hearing about Clowney right now to tell you the truth. I'm going to give the young man a chance to show me something in 2015. if not then there's always 2016 for him. If he doesn't show #1 overall pick potential by his third season then go ahead and call him a bust and a wasted selection.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
What I worry about is how motivated will Jadeveon Cowney be to not only return during the 2015 season, but become an all pro caliber player in the NFL? How much greatness is inside his heart and does he have the mental drive to put aside the millions he already has in his bank account and actually work hard for his next payday?
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You might want to go back read Dr. CND's posts from a couple of pages back up to this one:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105905&page=34
 
Texian said:
I find it difficult to believe that Clowney had any major knee damage/problems prior to the draft. I remember everyone being completely over the moon with Clowney's pro day, jumping over 8 bags, picking up tennis balls and all the change of direction drills he was put threw by Crennel. JC blew everyone away. Something you don't do with a bum knee. IMHO a bad turf is the culprt.
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thunderkyss said:
I bet his knees were as big as basketballs that night.
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I totally agree with TK.

Try putting some small pebbles in an elite athlete's shoes.....with or without pain meds, then do a couple of 2 minute-long intensive agility drills......he will undoubtedly perform up to expectation.

Throw him out on the field for an entire game under the same circumstances.........he will look more like what Clowney looked like when he can back after his first surgery.


We've talked about his having documented arthritic bone spurs since high school........after coming across this article entitled THE LEGEND OF CLOWNEY, I have absolutely no doubt that Clowney is a young guy with an old man's degenerative knees, and that had to be evident at the time of the 1st surgery

Football in The Rock

The legend of Jadeveon Clowney grew in the perfect incubator: Rock Hill, population around 68,000, located a short drive south from Charlotte, N.C.; a place where the mayor, Doug Echols, was once a football coach.

The Rock, as the locals call it, once thrived as a textile town, but when that business moved overseas, it was forced to redevelop, reinvent. Sports played a major role, football in particular. In fact, N.F.L. players have become something of The Rock’s chief export, at least six at last count.

“You really want to know what happened?” asked Jimmy (Moose) Wallace, the longtime football coach at Northwestern High School. “The gene pool, son. We’ve been blessed. Like Clowney. My goodness. That kid is the truth.”

Children begin football in The Rock at age 5 or 6. Tackle football. Travel leagues. The youth programs feed into more youth programs, which feed into the middle schools, which feed into three high schools, powerhouses all.

“This ain’t no tag, now,” Carroll said. “These kids will knock the taste out of your mouth at the age of 5. These kids hit.”
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REST OF THE STORY

EDIT: And to be clear, this in no way means that his last injury did not help deliver the coup de grace blow.
 
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Brisco_County said:
Cherilus also said this:



Other than the mechanics of the joint being degraded, he has to come back from the muscle atrophy. We probably won't know if he has a chance until late 2015.

Silver lining: Admittedly, anything positive from this is a stretch. I was listening to one of the local Austin sports shows, and Rod Babers was making a point about how some of the best NFL players achieved greatness because they always had a chip on their shoulder, and always had something to prove. People like JJ Watt and Aaron Rodgers. McNair broached the topic prior to the draft, stating how Watt had to work hard for everything he earned, and Clowney was accustomed to success through his natural athleticism. If anything positive could be gained from this setback, it would be that the extreme discipline required for rehab is permanently embedded in his work habits in the future, and he will always have something to prove to those who have written him off.




...Or he could lose all lateral quickness and be out by 2016.
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I have not entirely given up on Clowney. But he has been dealt an Aces and Eights hand, and has an unbelievably difficult, obstacle-filled road ahead of him........wherever that path leads him, I will be right there pulling for him every step of the way.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I have not entirely given up on Clowney. But he has been dealt an Aces and Eights hand, and has an unbelievably difficult, obstacle-filled road ahead of him........wherever that path leads him, I will be right there pulling for him every step of the way.
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Doc,

(And forgive me if this has been brought up earlier), Is this not the same type of injury and procedure that effectively ended Tracy McSissy's career and that is to say that the "explosion" these types of players need is severely impeded?

*EDIT*

Is there a chance, given Clowney's age versus Stacy's age that there is a better chance of a return to health?
 
Playoffs said:
As will I. If I were managing his money his allowance would be cut back drastically and we'd be investing for supporting his old age.
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You're right.

Sad thing is if he does that he can't keep up with the Joneses as his teammates. He's going to have to learn to be second fiddle. If he recovers medically that could be a good thing.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Doc,

(And forgive me if this has been brought up earlier), Is this not the same type of injury and procedure that effectively ended Tracy McSissy's career and that is to say that the "explosion" these types of players need is severely impeded?

*EDIT*

Is there a chance, given Clowney's age versus Stacy's age that there is a better chance of a return to health?
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Same surgery........beginning with same premise..........the only difference at this time is that we have not experienced the last chapter of Clowney's story.
 
I wasn't a fan of Jadeveon Clowney having this second surgery. I wanted him to play through the pain, endure the swelling, and was hoping he would get that knee feeling stronger the more games he played in. I had the Bill O'Brien approach to his situation. Now I have to wait 9 to 12 months to see what he can do? Hopefully it's worth the wait.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I wasn't a fan of Jadeveon Clowney having this second surgery. I wanted him to play through the pain, endure the swelling, and was hoping he would get that knee feeling stronger the more games he played in. I had the Bill O'Brien approach to his situation. Now I have to wait 9 to 12 months to see what he can do? Hopefully it's worth the wait.
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I don't think Bill O'Brien's approach was to allow bone on bone degradation of his knee.
 
Just looking for examples of success after microfracture. Cowboys defensive end Anthony Spencer is past rehab, and trying to return to form. His timeframe is similar to Clowney's.

Spencer missed the first three games of the season as he recovered from microfracture surgery on his knee that cost him all but one game last season.

"I feel better than I've felt all year," Spencer said.

The Cowboys need Spencer to not only feel well but play well. He has a half sack to go with 20 tackles, 12 quarterback pressures and one tackle for loss. But it was a forced fumble that he produced in last week's win against the Chicago Bears that kicks off a number of big plays down the stretch.

"I haven't made many plays this year, so to make that play makes me feel like I am getting back in the groove of things," Spencer said.

Returning from microfracture surgery is a long, involved process that requires a tedious rehab. Spencer has gone through what Houston Texans' No. 1 pick Jadeveon Clowney is about to go through.

Spencer's advice?

"Take his time," Spencer said.
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Link

Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham is having some success post rehab.

Graham is one of the success stories of microfracture surgery and could provide a blueprint for Clowney. He's currently fourth on the Eagles with 5.5 sacks and first in the NFL with four forced fumbles. He's still seeing limited snaps behind Trent Cole and Connor Barwin, but, according to Pro Football Focus, he's the most productive pass-rushing linebacker in the league.

But he's also had to learn to succeed in a different manner post-surgery. A player drafted for his speed and explosion now has minimal lateral agility and relies instead on a relentless motor, strong punch and low center of gravity to help him corral unsuspecting quarterbacks in the pocket.
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Link
 
This thread is too fkn depressing. Can we get it locked now that he's on IR?
 
Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham is having some success post rehab.



Link[/QUOTE]

Yikes! Is Clowney's game going to be able to evolve like Graham's has?
 
ung14 said:
Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham is having some success post rehab.



Link
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Yikes! Is Clowney's game going to be able to evolve like Graham's has?[/QUOTE]

man that linked site is loaded with trackers... crashed my computer trying to deal with it
 
JB said:
Yikes! Is Clowney's game going to be able to evolve like Graham's has?
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man that linked site is loaded with trackers... crashed my computer trying to deal with it[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that...meant to quote Brisco County's post.
 
JB said:
man that linked site is loaded with trackers... crashed my computer trying to deal with it
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Here's the text...
NFL: Houston Texans Jadeveon Clowney; Philly's Brandon Graham A Microfracture Success Story To Emulate

By Cal Setar | Dec 10, 2014 04:42 PM ESTicon

Clowney's career prospects are in "grave danger." (Photo : Getty Images)
Philadelphia Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham was having a pretty promising start to his NFL career.

Thirteen games into his rookie season, he had amassed three sacks, 19 tackles and was getting a heavy amount of playing time in the Eagles' defensive line rotation.

But a knee injury against the Dallas Cowboys on Dec. 12, 2010 would eventually prove more serious than originally thought with doctors determining the necessity of microfracture surgery.

It took Graham the entirety of that offseason and nearly all of the 2011 season to return to some semblance of acceptable physical condition. It wasn't until 2012 that he had reached a place where he was nearly whole again.

With the announcement of this past April's number-one overall pick, linebacker Jadeveon Clowney, requiring microfracture knee surgery, there is concern both within the Houston Texans organization and among the rest of the league that Clowney may not only miss a serious amount of time, but that his long-term career prospects could now be in jeopardy.

After initial reports pegged the procedure as just a clean out, Adam Schefter of ESPN discovered that the issue, in fact, went much deeper.

"Texans LB Jadeveon Clowney underwent microfracture knee surgery on Monday and is expected to be sidelined nine months, per sources."

Microfracture surgery - which involves poking tiny holes in the bone near torn knee cartilage - has been the death knell for a number of promising athletic careers. The blood that results from the holes is supposed to help heal the tear, but often leaves the cartilage around it weaker, according to Dr. David J. Chao.

A 2007 report from Kevin Pelton of Football Outsiders determined that of 56 players who had previously undergone the surgery, only nine returned to play in the league for five-plus seasons (h/t to Tony Manfred of BusinessInsider.com).

Players who return often do so with muted athleticism.

Clowney was the first-overall pick in the draft not because of his savvy or technique, but because of prodigious physical gifts the Texans coaching staff were hoping to eventually couple with a greater understanding of the game to turn him into the generational player they thought he could be when they selected him so highly.

That ideal future is now very much in doubt.

Graham is one of the success stories of microfracture surgery and could provide a blueprint for Clowney. He's currently fourth on the Eagles with 5.5 sacks and first in the NFL with four forced fumbles. He's still seeing limited snaps behind Trent Cole and Connor Barwin, but, according to Pro Football Focus, he's the most productive pass-rushing linebacker in the league.

But he's also had to learn to succeed in a different manner post-surgery. A player drafted for his speed and explosion now has minimal lateral agility and relies instead on a relentless motor, strong punch and low center of gravity to help him corral unsuspecting quarterbacks in the pocket.

If Clowney, upon his eventual return to the lineup, has any hope of turning his career into a success story akin to Graham's, he's going to have to learn to rely as much or more on his instincts and technique, than on his athleticism.

Which is no small thing for a guy who has spent his entire football career being the most physically gifted player on the field.
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TexansFight said:
Yeah, having reporters that demand accountability like they have in NYC, Boston and Philly sucks. If we had more of that type of reporting, Houston would have better teams.
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Yeah cuz professional teams always suck up to the media

:kubepalm:
 
TexansFight said:
Yeah, having reporters that demand accountability like they have in NYC, Boston and Philly sucks. If we had more of that type of reporting, Houston would have better teams.
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I would say it's more aggressive demanding people in general . If it means turning into a haven for the obnoxious , then maybe a marketing company with team is ok .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
You could have Cal , Bob , Rick , and Bill . :kubepalm:
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Starring -
Grandpa Jones as that lovable ol Bob McNair
Roy Clark as Coach Bill O'brien
Archie Campbell as Rick Smith
Gordie Tapp as everyone's favorite worthless son Cal


"Gloom, despair and agony on me-e!
Deep dark depression, excessive misery-y!
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!
Gloom, despair and agony on me-e-e!"
 
Pollardized said:
Starring -
Grandpa Jones as that lovable ol Bob McNair
Roy Clark as Coach Bill O'brien
Archie Campbell as Rick Smith
Gordie Tapp as everyone's favorite worthless son Cal


"Gloom, despair and agony on me-e!
Deep dark depression, excessive misery-y!
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!
Gloom, despair and agony on me-e-e!"
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We made him rich, loaded to the hilt
we figured he could help JJ with Luck
'Cause we had heard for years how well he was built
Now he stepped in a hole and ain't worth a **** .

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

FWIW the original

We figured she was rich, loaded to the hilt
And we figured she had class like the Vanderbilts
'Cause we had heard for years how she was so well reared
How was we to know they meant the way she was built

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
We made him rich, loaded to the hilt
we figured he could help JJ with Luck
'Cause we had heard for years how well he was built
Now he stepped in a hole and ain't worth a **** .

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

FWIW the original
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That's awesome!

MSR cuz I had just hit you on the video! I still love Hee Haw
 
JB said:
Yikes! Is Clowney's game going to be able to evolve like Graham's has?
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man that linked site is loaded with trackers... crashed my computer trying to deal with it[/QUOTE]Based on that example, we could get Clowney back two years after surgery + his rookie season we get nothing. We do save about $3m on roster bonus (maybe).
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Hee Haw was a staple at home when I was a kid . I also like the Grand Pa what's for supper skit and use that when we have company lunches because so many folks complained about a free meal .
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I am shocked that your parents allowed you to watch such immoral entertainment when you were a kid.

HEE HAW was one of the most godless and evil television shows ever produced; yet, many Christians watched it regularly because Roy Clark, Buck Owens, and others, sang a Gospel song towards the end of each show. During the rest of the show, much of what you saw was women's breasts exposed, whores laying in suggestive positions, dirty jokes, women wearing miniskirts, women being sensual, women and men flirting with each other, men looking at women's breasts, etc. It wasn't just clean fun. There's nothing "clean" about lasciviousness.
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http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/Hellivision/hee_haw.htm

:kitten:
 
Texanmike02 said:
I called in to NFL radio when dan reeves was on. He swore that casserly made the call.

Mike
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I find that hard to believe considering he was a lame duck GM on his way out the door and was drooling all over Reggie Bush.

Why would McNair allow Casserly to make that choice when he was getting ready to fire him?
 
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