JaDeveon Clowney

[Runner]

You lie!

Sometimes?

 

[Mr.Scarface]

Not to be political here, but....

If conservatives would get their head out of their asses and take religion out of EVERYTHING.......STEM Cell research and treatment in the US would be much farther along. That's why Kobe Bryant went to Germany for treatment with his microfracture surgery. Fetal STEM Cells are the best to use........and the bible thumpers get all foamed up over those.........

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Could you elaborate or provide any information on this new technique?

It's called prayer and faith.

 

[TheMatrix31]

Not to be political here, but....

If conservatives would get their head out of their asses and take religion out of EVERYTHING.......STEM Cell research and treatment in the US would be much farther along. That's why Kobe Bryant went to Germany for treatment with his microfracture surgery. Fetal STEM Cells are the best to use........and the bible thumpers get all foamed up over those.........

"Not to be political here, but..."

*says all sorts of dumb political bullshit*

 

[ESAD2-14]

"Not to be political here, but..."

*says all sorts of dumb political bullshit*

 

[JamesBill]

Not to be political here, but....

If conservatives would get their head out of their asses and take religion out of EVERYTHING.......STEM Cell research and treatment in the US would be much farther along. That's why Kobe Bryant went to Germany for treatment with his microfracture surgery. Fetal STEM Cells are the best to use........and the bible thumpers get all foamed up over those.........

Scientifically you are wrong. iPS cells

 

[infantrycak]

Scientifically you are wrong. iPS cells

Wrong place for this discussion. Y'all take it to the NSZ if you want to keep the discussion going.

 

[Mr.Scarface]

"Not to be political here, but..."

*says all sorts of dumb political bullshit*

edit

 

[disaacks3]

Sometimes?

Sure. Given the recent history of first draft picks (17/20 being offensive players), I think at least 17 teams would have gone with other players, probably all on the offensive side of the ball. There were enough questions about Clowney that some teams would not have risked drafting him. That is how I support my opinion.

Care to support your assertions that:

1) All 32 teams would have picked him 1/1.
2) I said that nobody would have picked him at 1/1.

I've supported mine. You want more links? Pretty sure I can bury you with them.

Link

Link

You provided a STATISTIC, not a researched PoV supported by anything other than "Well, history never changes". I went with the so-called experts, LOTS of them.

Strangely, I can't find a corresponding "Many teams would have passed on Clowney" article. Perhaps you can provide one?

As for your ASSERTION that I said 32/32 teams would have taken him 1-1, care to explain how you extrapolated that out of :

Clowney was assumed to be the #1 pick, by whoever had the pick.

With a link that said just that no less!

This seems to be a case of hearing what you wanted to hear, not what was actually said.

 

[Brisco_County]

Not to be political here, but....

Finally, someone turns this to everyone's favorite topic.

 

[Wolf]

Goodness gracious....somebody go tell that Judge to go get some balls and start tearing down the astrodome.

Break the curse !

 

[JamesBill]

Goodness gracious....somebody go tell that Judge to go get some balls and start tearing down the astrodome.

Break the curse !

JJ Watt will then get Asbestosis when he rescues a single father construction worker from a malfunctioning cherry picker.

 

[Runner]

I've supported mine. You want more links? Pretty sure I can bury you with them.

Link

Link

You provided a STATISTIC, not a researched PoV supported by anything other than "Well, history never changes". I went with the so-called experts, LOTS of them.

Strangely, I can't find a corresponding "Many teams would have passed on Clowney" article. Perhaps you can provide one?

As for your ASSERTION that I said 32/32 teams would have taken him 1-1, care to explain how you extrapolated that out of : With a link that said just that no less!

This seems to be a case of hearing what you wanted to hear, not what was actually said.

Internet hype machine experts vs. recent historical trends? I'll take the trends.

I took "whoever had the first pick" to mean "whoever had the first pick". Since "whoever" means the Texans or whoever they trade the pick to, that would be 32 NFL teams.

Note in the above I said historical "trends". I've never said that "history never changes", nor did I say that "nobody else would pick Clowney 1/1". Putting words in my mouth to weaken my argument just makes it look like you are stretching to make yours.

=======================

On another topic, I'm not sure why you quoted my "Sometimes" post. That was just an acknowledgement of Eriadoc getting the little joke I put in there. I really don't take most of these debates all that seriously and like to have some fun at times.

 

[badboy]

Caught just a few seconds tonight of radio 610 playing a bit from a physician named David (did not get last name) who said the type of surgery Clowney got while new did not often result in growth and as he was "bone on bone" future surgery probable and long term health prognosis not good. This was not a call in fan but someone commenting on Clowney. FWIW

 

[Lucky]

Damn.

 

[badboy]

Damn.

my thoughts exactly; I wished they had played more if available and not just a comment. The radio guy was careful not to cast stones. I wanted more from the doctor as to his opinion and why

 

[Troy Chapman]

Caught just a few seconds tonight of radio 610 playing a bit from a physician named David (did not get last name) who said the type of surgery Clowney got while new did not often result in growth and as he was "bone on bone" future surgery probable and long term health prognosis not good. This was not a call in fan but someone commenting on Clowney. FWIW

Can't remember his last name but he used to be a team doctor for Houston Texans I believe.

 

[thunderkyss]

Can't remember his last name but he used to be a team doctor for Houston Texans I believe.

I think they said his name was Dr. David Chow.

& they ran that several times today. If you go to their website & listen to the podcast, I'm sure you'll find it.


I didn't listen, but this might be it... Dr. David Chao

 

[badboy]

I think they said his name was Dr. David Chow.

& they ran that several times today. If you go to their website & listen to the podcast, I'm sure you'll find it.

That's it. Thanks. Any more we don't know in his full comments?

 

[thunderkyss]

I think they said his name was Dr. David Chow.

& they ran that several times today. If you go to their website & listen to the podcast, I'm sure you'll find it.


I didn't listen, but this might be it... Dr. David Chao

I edited my post with a link to the podcast... I'm pretty sure that's the one they've been running today.

He's talking about the common microfracture surgery, not what the reports are saying he got.

 

[PapaL]

Goodness gracious....somebody go tell that Judge to go get some balls and start tearing down the astrodome.



Break the curse !

We should send our medical staff over there. They can tear some sh|t up!

 

[badboy]

I edited my post with a link to the podcast... I'm pretty sure that's the one they've been running today.

He's talking about the common microfracture surgery, not what the reports are saying he got.

well poop, why even let that on the radio if it has nothing to do with Clowney? This is what causes problems and thank for clarifying this TK

 

[IDEXAN]

That's it. Thanks. Any more we don't know in his full comments?

I heard the whole segment, and frankly as a Clowney fan I found it very discouraging, almost depressing. It's gonna be a long slow process back for JD from what the doctor said, and a word to the wise, you better be prepared for an unhappy ending. I know I am, and dammit I hate to be so pessimistic, but the doctor didn't paint a pretty picture.

 

[thunderkyss]

well poop, why even let that on the radio if it has nothing to do with Clowney? This is what causes problems and thank for clarifying this TK

Sorry, I think I may have mis-spoke.

Steph,

Came across this article that now more than ever makes me think that indeed the percutaneous mesenchymal stem cell technique is likely, at least in part, the technique that was recommended/performed.

Stem Cell Treatment: Out from the Shadows, Onto the Cutting Edge
The Jets’ Chris Johnson is one of hundreds of NFL players who’ve turned to stem cells to aid in recovery from injury. It may be the next big breakthrough in the treatment of sports ailments, but for now the use of such therapy is strictly limited in the U.S.-and questions about effectiveness outweigh the answers

According to that article, I think they go through the regular microfracture procedure, then inject the stem cells. This article is kind of confusing, because in Chris Johnson's case, he had it done at the same time of the meniscus repair. They don't mention the microfracture procedure.

On the day of his surgery at the Andrews Institute in Gulf Breeze, Fla., Johnson had a small amount of his bone marrow-60 milliliters, or the volume of a shot glass-siphoned out of the iliac crest of his pelvis with a long needle pushed through a tiny incision in his skin. Less than an hour later, at the end of the arthroscopic procedure to repair his meniscus, a concentrate of thousands of stem cells from the bone marrow was injected directly into Johnson’s knee joint.

Instead of the usual four-to-six-week recovery time from the scope, Johnson stayed off the practice field for the rest of the offseason, giving the stem-cell treatment maximum time to work. At the least, stem cells are a powerful anti-inflammatory. But the hope is they may also play a role in boosting the healing of injured tissues, including stubborn ones like the meniscus, which lacks a robust blood supply, or cartilage, which has long been irreplaceable.

They did, however, say that Chris Johnson ran for 1000 yards with a torn meniscus, which removed a lot of cartilage.

“When I tore my meniscus and played the season out, through the wear and tear, I lost a lot of cartilage,” says Johnson, who was signed by the Jets to bring explosiveness to their offense. “When you put the stem cells in, it might be able to help rebuild that cartilage in your knee. Hopefully, it makes your knee better for even more years.”

He's probably not going to get 1000 yards this year, but he is averaging 4.5 ypc.

 

[417Texan]

Take away Clowney injury he was not that impressive his last year in school.
Texans fell in love with draft workout numbers.

 

[badboy]

There was also a mention of a tight end that had similar surgery October 2013 and is having a great season.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Steph,

Here is probably the newest variant of microfracture........combined with a membrane patch placed over the entire microfractured joint cartilage defect........the membrane having been soaked with the more "potent" iliac bone (hip) stem cells.

Here is the more detailed description (if anyone has any interest in more detail). Although promising........only very limited (especially) long term evidence of consistent efficacy and longevity of positive effects on performance in comparison to pre-injury.

Arthrosc Tech. Dec 2012; 1(2): e175–e180.
Published online Sep 14, 2012.

Arthroscopic Knee Cartilage Repair With Covered Microfracture and Bone Marrow Concentrate
Antonio Gigante,a Stefano Cecconi,a Silvano Calcagno,b Alberto Busilacchi,a and Davide Eneaa,[low asterisk]

Abstract

In recent years several single-stage cartilage repair approaches have been devised to treat focal cartilage lesions. These usually associate microfracture (MFX) and a coverage scaffold. We describe a novel arthroscopic technique that combines MFX, autologous bone marrow concentrate (BMC), and a protective scaffold. Bone marrow aspirate from the iliac crest is centrifuged to obtain BMC. The cartilage defect is debrided, MFX holes are created, and the final defect is measured by use of a bent K-wire. The scaffold is then shaped to match the defect, immersed in BMC, introduced into the joint with a grasper, and fixed in place with a mixture of fibrin glue and BMC. This technique aims to augment the original single-stage procedure with a number of mesenchymal stem cells and growth factors contained in the BMC, to increase the defect filling and the rate of hyaline-like cartilage regeneration. The procedure combining MFX, BMC, and a protective scaffold is inexpensive and reproducible and has already shown the ability to regenerate hyaline-like cartilage. Its use as an alternative to autologous chondrocyte implantation requires further investigation.

In recent years, to reduce the cost and the morbidity of autologous chondrocyte implantation and autologous chondrocyte implantation–related cartilage repair procedures, the so-called single stage techniques have been devised. They combine microfracture (MFX), to promote migration of mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) from subchondral bone, and a protective scaffold to hold them in situ and serve as a support for tissue differentiation.1,2 The procedures in use mainly differ with regard to the type of scaffold adopted (collagenic1,3-5 or polyglycolic acid–hyaluronan based2,6,7) and the surgical approach (arthroscopic2,7 or mini-open1,3-6). These techniques have led to good clinical and functional results; however, the capability to obtain complete filling of the cartilage defect was shown to be limited.1,5,6

Intra-articular delivery of bone marrow concentrate (BMC) has been documented to improve MFX outcome in full-thickness cartilage defects in a horse model.8 Moreover, compared with tibial or femoral bone marrow blood, BMC from the iliac crest contains greater MSC concentrations with greater doubling potential.9 This had led to combining MFX, BMC, and a protective scaffold to treat talar chondral lesions, resulting in complete filling of the cartilage defect and a hyaline-like quality of the repair tissue.10 The purpose of augmenting a single stage procedure with BMC is therefore to deliver to the defect site a larger number of multipotent cells able to differentiate toward the chondral lineage and, ultimately, to improve the defect filling and the rate of hyaline-like repair.8

The aim of this technical note is to describe in detail the all-arthroscopic, covered microfracture and bone marrow concentrate (CMBMC) technique applied to full-thickness, focal, condylar cartilage defects.

LINK

 

[austins23]

There was also a mention of a tight end that had similar surgery October 2013 and is having a great season.

Travis Kelce, Chiefs

 

[thunderkyss]

Steph,

Here is probably the newest variant of microfracture........combined with a membrane patch placed over the entire microfractured joint cartilage defect........the membrane having been soaked with the more "potent" iliac bone (hip) stem cells.


LINK

Sounds very interesting/promising. Yet different from what's being associated with Dr. Andrews. If he was going the stem cell route, wouldn't you think Andrews would be doing the surgery? Since he isn't, wouldn't that lead you to believe he opted for something different than what Andrews has been working on?

 

[Marshall]

No, I claimed that he wouldn't be a unanimous choice by every team in the league, as you stated when you said everybody wanted him at @1-1. I didn't say nobody wanted him @ 1-1.

I stay away from absolutes. They are always wrong.

You're ABSOLUTELY right.

 

[ObsiWan]

This whole sordid saga is worse than when J.R. Ewing got shot on the old TV show Dallas in the season finale and we had to wait all summer to find out if he was dead and who shot him...

 

[disaacks3]

They had Dr. First on 610 this morning and he had several "bold" statements that I'm not sure he could really answer and / or lacked better explanations.

1. Clowney's non-contact injury was nonetheless a "high impact" type of injury.

2. Clowney playing/not playing on the injury had no effect on whether he'd need the microfracture surgery and really didn't make anything worse.

3. He's certain that Clowney had no knee problems coming out of college...based on watching him play.

4. Theory as to why the cartilage damage wasn't detected initially (prior to surgery) is that MRI may not have seen it.

5. Likens microfracture surgery to making small holes down to marrow level to help speed growth and that's it. No mention of stem cells, plugs, patches, etc.

 

[Marcus]

Today's article in the Houston Chronicle - (posting the entire article for non-subscribers)

Microfracture surgery risky for top pick

Microfracture surgery isn't for everyone.

The question is, was it the best option for someone in Jadeveon Clowney's demographic, which is to say a young, strong, fit and - hopefully - highly motivated elite athlete?

Clearly, the Texans, their orthopedist Dr. Walt Lowe, and Dr. Robert Andrews, to whom they went for a second opinion, believed the operation was the right way to go. Texans rookie linebacker Clowney, 21, underwent the surgery, performed by Lowe, on Monday

But there are strong dissenting opinions. Dr. Richard Lehman, a prominent orthopedic surgeon and founder of the U.S. Center for Sports Medicine in St. Louis, believes microfracture "is fine for weekend warriors, but I'm not a fan of it for an elite athlete like Jadeveon Clowney."

In Clowney's case, Lehman said, "It could be career-ending. Everybody knows that."

Lehman is a proponent of an alternative procedure, articular cartilage reconstruction, which he pioneered. It involves growing cartilage outside the body, then inserting it to replace what has been damaged. "I think it's a better way to go," Lehman said, "than using cartilage that's essentially scar tissue."

Microfracture is a relatively simple, painless procedure, usually requiring less than 45 minutes. But the recovery period is long and arduous - perhaps even more so mentally than physically. Clowney (6-5, 266 pounds) faces weeks of forced inactivity, then months of grueling physical therapy before he'll find out if he can become the player everyone expected when the Texans selected him with the first pick in the 2014 draft.

Common procedure

"It's the most common procedure for (articular) cartilage repair done in the world today," said Dr. Bert Mandelbaum, an orthopedic surgeon and co-chair of medical affairs at the Institute for Sports Scientists in Los Angeles.

He has performed microfracture operations for two decades, following in the footsteps of the physician who developed it, Dr. Richard Steadman of Vail, Colo.

The surgery entails drilling tiny holes - "fractures" - in the lower leg bone plate, allowing blood and bone marrow to seep out, forming a blood clot that releases cartilage-building stem cells from the marrow.

But Mandelbaum said, "The challenge of getting the cartilage to regenerate can be a tough one" - it increases exponentially the bigger the gouge, or divot, in the membrane happens to be - and the effectiveness varies from patient to patient, probably based on stem cell population.

Mandelbaum said about two-thirds of all microfracture operations are successful. He couldn't speak to the issues Clowney might deal with in his damaged right knee, making it impossible for him to offer a prognosis, and Lowe hasn't been available for comment.

But Mandelbaum believes Clowney "is in good hands." He knows Lowe and holds him in high esteem.

Injured in opener

Lowe performed arthroscopic surgery on Clowney's knee Sept. 9 to repair a torn lateral meniscus cartilage, suffered two days earlier in the season opener against Washington on a late first-half play on which he landed awkwardly.

It was hoped that repairing the meniscus would suffice, but Lowe apparently also found damage to the articular cartilage, the delicate membrane that coats the tips of the bones, serving as a shock absorber and preventing them from pounding and grinding together, which causes more damage and can lead to excruciating pain.

Replays show Clowney had rushed quarterback Robert Griffin III, making a sharp zigzag cut en route, but he arrived a split second after Griffin had been knocked down by J.J. Watt close to the Washington goal line.

Clowney leaped, seemingly trying to avoid stepping on Watt, and he came down hard on his right foot. On his next step, he was limping, and he didn't return to the game.

Gave it a shot

Clowney played seven weeks later against Tennessee but seemed to be unsure of himself and favoring his right knee. He took another two weeks off around the Texans' open date before taking the field again in Cleveland and against Cincinnati at home. In the latter game, he participated in a season-high 49 snaps, but he experienced significant swelling afterward, prompting the Texans to send him to be examined by Andrews at his clinic in Pensacola, Fla.

One thing working against Clowney is his size. The regenerated cartilage, called fibrocartilage, isn't as durable as the natural, or hyaline, cartilage.

It appears the chances are relatively high he'll have to undergo another microfracture surgery a couple of seasons down the road.

"A lot of people's results have not been very good with it," said Dr. Gary Brock, a pediatric orthopedist in Houston. "He's going to have a tough road coming back unless it's a very small lesion."

Two athletes who recovered successfully from microfracture surgery, Lions running back Reggie Bush and former Utah Jazz point guard John Stockton, are small guys. Hall of Fame defensive end Bruce Smith, definitely a big guy, also prospered afterward.

But a large body who couldn't come back from it was former Texans offensive lineman Chester Pitts.

Pitts, an original Texan, was in the team's locker room Wednesday. He spoke at length about his ordeal, but his intent was to debunk the notion microfracture surgery forced him to retire following the 2010 season.

He was hurt two games into the 2009 season, ending his streak of 114 consecutive starts for the Texans, who released him at the end of the year.

Pitts played most of the following season for the Seattle Seahawks but admits the knee never felt right.

"I blame the injury, not the surgery - I just had too much damage in there," he said, noting the bones in the joint had been essentially pulverized at their tips. "If it's a small area (of damage), it can work fine. Mine was about the size of a silver dollar. But I think the operation was the only thing that was going to give me any chance to keep playing."

Pitts is more optimistic about Clowney's prospects for a full recovery because the prized rookie didn't suffer a trauma-causing blow to the knee, as happened to him.

Russ Paine of the Memorial-Hermann Sports Medicine Institute, regarded as one of Houston's top physical therapists, has had no personal interaction with Clowney, but he has considerable experience working with microfracture surgery patients. He believes the key to Clowney's recovery hinges hugely upon his work ethic, specifically his willingness to strengthen the leg.

Leg strength key

"The stronger the muscles are on both sides of the knee," Paine said, "the better they can help to act as shock absorbers."

Paine added that stationary cycling also figures to be a significant component of Clowney's rehab.

"Motion is extremely good for the articular cartilage," he said. "It's like squeezing a sponge. It gets the synovial fluid flowing through the knee joint."

Cushing sympathizes

Clowney's teammate Brian Cushing knows more about recovering from knee surgery than any Texan, having undergone major operations in each of the last two seasons. The microfracture process couldn't have helped Cushing recover from the torn anterior cruciate and medial collateral ligaments he suffered, but he is well-versed in what's ahead for Clowney.

"It's extremely hard," Cushing said, "especially in the offseason when nobody's here. It's more mental than anything, knowing how many more days and hours you have to put in with very monotonous workouts, with routines that aren't very fun. There will also be a lot of pain involved. But you need to remember that every day you go through it, you're one step closer to getting back."

Swearinger confides

Safety D.J. Swearinger was Clowney's teammate at South Carolina and has the best point of reference of any Texan. Swearinger watched Clowney with increasing alarm as he tried to play following his meniscus repair, realizing he was hardly seeing the same player he remembered. Clowney confirmed in private conversations that something was wrong with his knee.

"It was a crazy situation," Swearinger said. "That's tough luck to have to go through it at the start of your career. He needs to stay prayed up and do what he has to do to get the knee back right and get back on the field in the near future. He's got to work hard and stay positive about everything."

 

[eriadoc]

Today's article in the Houston Chronicle - (posting the entire article for non-subscribers)

Here's a link to the full article on their website that you don't have to pay for.

 

[Marcus]

So basically, to get right to the point, (and Doc, correct me if I'm wrong here) he has a bone-on-bone condition, and this surgery is make it NOT bone-on-bone?

Good luck with that.

Not to mention that this will take motivation of a Brian Cushing to rehab from this, which most likely run into the next season before he plays again?

God, what a disaster.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I'm going to assume the cartilage patch is the small, better growing percentage type, considering how hard it was to find.

This is certainly going to test his work ethic and determination to be a great NFL player. Good luck to him. I wish him the best

 

[IDEXAN]

This Dr Chow (spelling?), who guested on 610 yesterday said the articular cartilage is analogous to the surface or grass of a football field, and if the damaged area is on the EZ or edge of the field, the situation is a lot less complicated than if the damage is in the center of the field.
But JD on the one-hand while a superior (maybe vastly superior) athlete to a Brian Cushing, in terms of comittment and determination and work ethic which is what's needed to successfully get thru this very demanding rehab, most likely also 2 different individuals here but not to Clowneys advantage.

 

[thunderkyss]

This Dr Chow (spelling?), who guested on 610 yesterday said the articular cartilage is analogous to the surface or grass of a football field, and if the damaged area is on the EZ or edge of the field, the situation is a lot less complicated than if the damage is in the center of the field.
But JD on the one-hand while a superior (maybe vastly superior) athlete to a Brian Cushing, in terms of comittment and determination and work ethic which is what's needed to successfully get thru this very demanding rehab, most likely also 2 different individuals here but not to Clowneys advantage.

I don't know about that. From what I hear, the rehab consist of spending countless hours on a couch eating potato chips.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I will try to respectfully offer responses to the comments that were presented.

They had Dr. First on 610 this morning and he had several "bold" statements that I'm not sure he could really answer and / or lacked better explanations.

1. Clowney's non-contact injury was nonetheless a "high impact" type of injury.

Can also occur from long-term repeated more minor compression trauma (overuse)

2. Clowney playing/not playing on the injury had no effect on whether he'd need the microfracture surgery and really didn't make anything worse.

If undetected or damaged thinned cartilage is continued to be played on, continued trauma (overuse) can lead to progression of the size of area that will result in bone exposure. Keep in mind that microfracture, in general, has been shown to become less successful as the treatment area reaches dimensions greater than 2-2.5 cms.

3. He's certain that Clowney had no knee problems coming out of college...based on watching him play.

?????........the needle and meds such as pain meds and Toradol can allow players to maintain performance........until the damage reaches a certain point where it can no longer be masked.

4. Theory as to why the cartilage damage wasn't detected initially (prior to surgery) is that MRI may not have seen it.

Like in the case of Ed Reed, I suspect that an MRI arthrogram instead of plain MRI was not performed. The former has been universally shown to be superior for detecting articular damage not picked up by MRI alone.

5. Likens microfracture surgery to making small holes down to marrow level to help speed growth and that's it. No mention of stem cells, plugs, patches, etc.

Most evidence points to the fact that once you get to microfracture, you can still perform the other procedures but generally the success rate (as unpredictable as these other procedures have proven to be) is not as good as if they were performed as the primary procedure.

 

[Double Barrel]

This might be the most depressing thread ever on Texans Talk.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Sounds very interesting/promising. Yet different from what's being associated with Dr. Andrews. If he was going the stem cell route, wouldn't you think Andrews would be doing the surgery? Since he isn't, wouldn't that lead you to believe he opted for something different than what Andrews has been working on?

The typical stem cell bone marrow harvesting and injections to the knee are not training-intensive type of procedures. It is when you are using sophisticated lab processed or cultured materials that things get somewhat more complicated. But most of these mixtures can be obtained by certain labs specializing in such. So that who actually performs the procedure is no usually any make-it or break-it factor.

 

[thetexanator]

this clowney thing is gunna set us back another 2 yrs. next year we got no qb, no corners, a linebacker playing safety, dbrown declining, cushing hurt, one receiver, no te's. jj watt and a sack of crrr. :kubepalm: clowney comes back late next yr, then doesnt play well, then everyone says yu cant come back in 1st yr. so clowney gets free pass until 2016 when we find out the knee never healed like it was supposed to.:kubepalm:

 

[JB]

this clowney thing is gunna set us back another 2 yrs. next year we got no qb, no corners, a linebacker playing safety, dbrown declining, cushing hurt, one receiver, no te's. jj watt and a sack of crrr. :kubepalm: clowney comes back late next yr, then doesnt play well, then everyone says yu cant come back in 1st yr. so clowney gets free pass until 2016 when we find out the knee never healed like it was supposed to.:kubepalm:

 

[eriadoc]

this clowney thing is gunna set us back another 2 yrs. next year we got no qb, no corners, a linebacker playing safety, dbrown declining, cushing hurt, one receiver, no te's. jj watt and a sack of crrr.

Well, I'll just drop this here then:

"I think that's why you won't see me be one of these guys who spend 15 or 20 years in the NFL. I don't want to play forever. I want to give everything I can now and then walk away knowing I gave everything. The example I think of is Barry Sanders. He was such a great player, and he left when he was still on top. I want that to be me."

We wasted AJ's career; let's see if we waste JJ's.

 

[Double Barrel]

We wasted AJ's career; let's see if we waste JJ's.

J.J. will probably bolt if this franchise does nothing during his current contract. He will learn A.J.'s lesson that loyalty and patience might earn big paychecks and popularity in a city, but they do not guarantee any kind of great success.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

This Dr Chow (spelling?), who guested on 610 yesterday said the articular cartilage is analogous to the surface or grass of a football field, and if the damaged area is on the EZ or edge of the field, the situation is a lot less complicated than if the damage is in the center of the field.
But JD on the one-hand while a superior (maybe vastly superior) athlete to a Brian Cushing, in terms of comittment and determination and work ethic which is what's needed to successfully get thru this very demanding rehab, most likely also 2 different individuals here but not to Clowneys advantage.

I am hearing more and more comments by media and fans saying or implying that Clowney's return and subsequent performance will prove his commitment and effort he places in his rehab. This again unfairly places his success or failure directly back onto his shoulders. In other words, it will be his lack of commitment and effort by which he will be judged, if the end results are not favorable. Sorry to say, though, but the nature/extent of the injury, the "timeliness" or not of the diagnosis and treatment, and the limitations of ANY of these less than perfect procedures (microfracture surgery plus or minus stem cell or any other adjunct known to date) that may have been performed will independently be more the basis for the determination of his future. There are many, many more disappointing long-term results and failures following this type of injury and any microfracture variant than there are results that reflect a "miracle recovery." Let's not be too quick to judge Clowney if things do not turn out the way we would rather they did.

 

[IDEXAN]

I don't know about that. From what I hear, the rehab consist of spending countless hours on a couch eating potato chips.

Right, I hear the same thing which is that the first stage of the rehab/recovery is maximum inactivity, but later he better be prepared to work his azz off.

 

[El Tejano]

Bone on Bone? Dominik Davis....enough said!!!

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Dr. First made it very clear that microfracture surgery is "extremely controversial" at best.

This is a well-controlled study that should give you an idea of why I have also advocated this view.:

To test the two procedures in the U.S. population, HSS investigators recruited 48 patients who had “potholes” in their cartilage in the area known as the femoral condyle, an area located at the end of the thighbone in the upper half of the knee.

For the control group, the researchers identified 48 patients in the HSS Cartilage Registry who were matched for gender and underwent microfracture for a similar cartilage repair, same lesion size and location.

Clinicians evaluated patients prior to surgery and at one, two, three and five years of follow-up. They used a variety of tools commonly used to measure outcomes in patients undergoing these types of procedures. They used the short-form (SF)-36 health survey, a 36-question scale that includes a gamut of questions about general health and is widely used across all fields of medicine. They used two knee specific questionnaires: the international knee documentation committee (IKDC) scores and the Knee Outcome Survey (KOS). And they used the Marx Activity Level that is scored on a scale from 0 to 16 and gauges a person’s ability to do four activities: running, cutting, decelerating, and pivoting.

They found no difference in the knee outcome surveys or SF-36 form, but they did identify significant differences in the Marx Activity Level. Patients who underwent the OATS procedure had higher scores than patients who underwent microfracture at one year from baseline (score 5.21 vs. 4.11), two years (7.29 vs. 3.71), three years (7.75 vs. 2.91) and five years (8.55 vs. 2.89).


“The Marx activity rating scale correlates directly to the amount of physical activity that you can do at the time of the assessment,” said Dr. Williams. “Patients who underwent the OATS were able to do more sports and more athletic activities compared to the microfracture group at the same time point. We now have another procedure which is likely to result in a return to sport more predictably.”

He said the results are not surprising given that the OATS repair results in a natural cartilage repair whereas microfracture results in a repair comprised mainly of fibrocartilage that has been shown to be biomechanically inferior to articular cartilage.

LINK

Performance level following microfracture was found to be inferior at 1 year post procedure..........and to be declining each year thereafter.

 

[thunderkyss]

Dr. First made it very clear that microfracture surgery is "extremely controversial" at best.

This is a well-controlled study that should give you an idea of why I have also advocated this view.:



Performance level following microfracture was found to be inferior at 1 year post procedure..........and to be declining each year thereafter.

anything stopping him from getting the OATs procedure if he's not happy with where he is a year from now?