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JaDeveon Clowney

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Marshall said:
OTA's are out, but limited participation in training camp seems to be on the optimistic side of the spectrum.

Just don't rush things physically and get the mental part down NOW! It's not a 9 month vacation. Get to know all defensive responsibilities like you had to go into coaching. OLB, DE and even ILB as positions of focus. Learn the scheme and adjustments. Then if it takes you half of next season, so be it. You'll be ready to go when you are ready physically and mentally sharp enough to overcome any lingering effects physically.

I'm a patient fan. But optimizing his chances of as complete a recovery as probable is likely the prudent choice.
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This is the way this and other injuries should've been handled from the beginning, instead of needlessly rushing players back to play at less than a % where they can contribute at an acceptable level. Think of how Brooks Reed was rushed back from his groin injury, performed poorly (Predictably) and because of the damage caused had to have a surgery that he is just now recovered from enough to perform at a high level.
 
Runner said:
He had the most hype, that's for sure. I posted and linked a source somewhere a few weeks ago that in the last 20 drafts only three of the 1/1 picks were defensive players. Two of those picks were by the Texans brain trust. I doubt that trend would have been bucked by most of the teams in the league this year.

I don't buy the "once in a generation" hyperbole either, unless we are talking fruit flies. Mario was also a "once in a generation player" too. "Generations" are coming around as fast as the Texans having the first pick in the draft. That's been a fairly quick cycle.
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When and in what world was MW ever considered a once in a generation player? Revisionist history?
 
Can't be upset with Clowney. Apparently he tried to play through this injury, all the while being bashed on for not getting on the field sooner.

It's also not his fault he was drafted 1-1

Imo, the Texans staff screwed the pooch on this one. They went in to repair the meniscus injury, noticed the cartilage damage and decided to let him attempt to play through it. Why? Should've shut the kid down right then

I wanted Clowney with the 1-1 and I still feel he could possibly be really good. After all this pooch screwing by the Texans, his chances might've gotten derailed a bit.
 
steelbtexan said:
When and in what world was MW ever considered a once in a generation player? Revisionist history?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure terms like that were tossed around in pre-draft threads. His size, strength, and speed were unprecedented at the position. Now some might have revisionist-ized their opinions once they saw him actually play in the NFL, but the hype was there. And no, I wasn't a Bush or Young supporter.
 
My biggest issue with the pick was kid was not that great his last year at SC and think Houston needed a Qb of the future not a DE.
 
I gotta say it's hard for me to get mad or even be disappointed anymore at what happens on Kirby. We've been on the 5 year plan since 2002. Aside from the 2 odd years the Texans were any good and made the playoffs it's been the same ol' same ol'.

Apathy set in for me this season big time before the season even began so when I heard the news yesterday I shrugged it off and carried on with my day. I called 8-8 as a max of potential at the beginning of the year and it looks like I may have just been dead on balls accurate with that.

Just so tired of the same ol' same ol' man. Think of how this team would be if there was no JJ or Arian. In regard to Clowney, can't call him a bust yet, but I mean, disappointed and 0 contribution, yeah, that's him right now.

Tired of the misinformation, tired of Rick Smith, tired of losing and being mediocre.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The only other thing that I can think of would be articular cartilage paste grafting.

An articular cartilage paste graft is a procedure where a small amount of the patient’s own bone, stem cells, and cartilage is taken out of the non-weight bearing intercondylar notch of the knee, ground into a paste, and impacted back into an arthritic defect in the joint (as opposed to the technique I mentioned above that uses solid bone/cartilage plugs placed into the arthritic defect). From there, the knee grows replacement tissue, right inside the joint, promoting the healing ability of the patient’s own bone marrow derived stem cells. It is easier and more cost-effective that other techniques requiring cells to be grown in culture.
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That doesn't sound like what I understood it to be either.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Can't be upset with Clowney. Apparently he tried to play through this injury, all the while being bashed on for not getting on the field sooner.

It's also not his fault he was drafted 1-1

Imo, the Texans staff screwed the pooch on this one. They went in to repair the meniscus injury, noticed the cartilage damage and decided to let him attempt to play through it. Why? Should've shut the kid down right then

I wanted Clowney with the 1-1 and I still feel he could possibly be really good. After all this pooch screwing by the Texans, his chances might've gotten derailed a bit.
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^^^^
This

Sad that somebody put Clowney playing this yr (an 8-8 season) over what was good for the Texans longterm. (A healthy Clowney for yrs to come) I mean did anybody consider the Texans to be SB contenders this yr with Fitz at QB?

The Texans org sure makes some dumb decisions. But I guess the McNair's are still learning on the job after 12 yrs.
 
HTown2ATX said:
I gotta say it's hard for me to get mad or even be disappointed anymore at what happens on Kirby. We've been on the 5 year plan since 2002. Aside from the 2 odd years the Texans were any good and made the playoffs it's been the same ol' same ol'.

Apathy set in for me this season big time before the season even began so when I heard the news yesterday I shrugged it off and carried on with my day. I called 8-8 as a max of potential at the beginning of the year and it looks like I may have just been dead on balls accurate with that.

Just so tired of the same ol' same ol' man. Think of how this team would be if there was no JJ or Arian. In regard to Clowney, can't call him a bust yet, but I mean, disappointed and 0 contribution, yeah, that's him right now.

Tired of the misinformation, tired of Rick Smith, tired of losing and being mediocre.
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This is where I'm getting as a fan.

Not that the McNair's care about fans like the ones that visit this MB.
 
steelbtexan said:
^^^^
This

Sad that somebody put Clowney playing this yr (an 8-8 season) over what was good for the Texans longterm. (A healthy Clowney for yrs to come) I mean did anybody consider the Texans to be SB contenders this yr with Fitz at QB?

The Texans org sure makes some dumb decisions. But I guess the McNair's are still learning on the job after 12 yrs.
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Maybe OB and McNair? idonno:
 
b-witch-hunt.jpg
 
infantrycak said:
b-witch-hunt.jpg
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When did this become a witch hunt?

The Boselli misdiagnosis.

The ruining of DDW?

Cushing?

This medical staff has been subpar for yrs. This could be at the McNairs behest. We don't know the answer to this. (Kinda like Smith's role in the org) With the Texans track record who could blame the McNair's for all of the misinformation throughout the yrs?
 
steelbtexan said:
If true, then this is a huge problem and the Texans as an org is in for a long Browns like future.
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I agree with you. At this point, I can only hope McNair accidentally hires a good GM and OB stumbles on to some great talent that can take the Texans to a Super Bowl.
It happened with JJ, hopefully we'll get lucky and get a HOF qb as well.
 
steelbtexan said:
When did this become a witch hunt?

The Boselli misdiagnosis.

The ruining of DDW?

Cushing?

This medical staff has been subpar for yrs. This could be at the McNairs behest. We don't know the answer to this. (Kinda like Smith's role in the org) With the Texans track record who could blame the McNair's for all of the misinformation throughout the yrs?
Click to expand...

For you or the 90% of the damn MB that has lost their f'kin minds in having to have someone to blame for every little thing in life?

You lost it long ago and don't even make the slightest attempt at objectivity.

It appears having 1-1 go down has tipped the remainder.

Risks are not risks only if someone f'ks up down the road. CLOWNEY ALWAYS WAS A RISK and you and most people wanted him. Now stop being this because you came up snake eyes:

Ashlyn%27s_middle_finger.jpg
 
Texans_Chick said:
That doesn't sound like what I understood it to be either.
Click to expand...

There is a technique that has been referred to as new, but in fact it has been around for quite some time. In this technique, mesenchymal stem cells (precursor cells that have the ability to transform into mature cells such as tendon, ligament, and new joint cartilage cells......depending were they are injected) are isolated and cultured from bone marrow aspiration of the iliac crest (the hip rim). The mesenchymal stem cells, sometimes with additional components such as platelets, are then percutaneously injected into the subject's knee with MRI proven degenerative joint disease. In time, significant pain relief and variable cartilage growth has been demonstrated. There are no definitive studies that I am aware of that reflect that this is a consistent long term solution for athletes, with especially sparse results in professional sports players. Although there have been quite a few NFL players that have in the past few years tried to turn to this technique (which BTW has been promoted by Dr. Andrews), reports of any success have been limited thus far to anecdotal in nature.
 
Runner said:
He had the most hype, that's for sure. I posted and linked a source somewhere a few weeks ago that in the last 20 drafts only three of the 1/1 picks were defensive players. Two of those picks were by the Texans brain trust. I doubt that trend would have been bucked by most of the teams in the league this year.
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Clowney was assumed to be the #1 pick, by whoever had the pick. One of many links

Txn_in_Oki said:
I'm aggravated, but I think everyone should calm down and give the kid time to heal. Anyone saying we should have taken someone else is hind sighting things. Who should they have taken? Manziel? Bortles? Clowney was the across the board consensus number one pick, you don't pass that... and you can't control injuries.
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No, but you can look for pre-existing conditions...like his bone spurs which still haven't been addressed. How about that sports hernia that suddenly cropped up in an NFL camp?

thunderkyss said:
That we are hearing reports that this was an old injury, it makes complete sense that he played with in 2013.... explains why he wasn't making the impact plays people were expecting, yet he was still able to wow everyone at the combine & pro days.

Just like Nix & Brennan Williams, this is the kind of stuff that would have made him a late 3rd... maybe even late 4th round pick.
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That's what I suspected as well. I doubt this much trauma was done to that knee on one non-contact play.

thunderkyss said:
Walter Lowe is extremely respected around the country in this field. He may not have the visability of Dr Andrews, but he's up there.

The reports read like Lowe noticed it & informed the Texans. They decided not to address it at that time & if it were my knee, or my daughter's knee (I say my daughter because he did fix here ACL) & he saw that I would definitely not want to make the decision of how to fix it at that time. Not with the options we are hearing about now.

The thing that gets me, is if they did know about this other condition, then what in the world made them push him out there at six weeks. That doesn't make any sense.
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You essentially answer your own question. They decided to put off the meniscus repair, hoping that it wouldn't be that much of an issue (especially if it was pre-existing) and just go the normal post-op route for the meniscus "trim" @ 6wks.
 
So Jadaveon Joppru is a big fat zero. Let's see. A sports hernia followed by surgery just for running around in OTA's? Or a remnant from his senior year? Hmmm, slow healer or easily injured?

Then a concussion in a practice....because ya those are common and happen to dozens and dozens of players every year while running around in shorts or shells.

Then first game in the NFL and you jump in the air, land awkwardly, totally non-contacted, and blow out a knee, which requires not one, but 2 surgeries with a total "supposed" recovery time of a year and we will be lucky to see a completely healthy JC in 2015 at all. It's easy to surmise it will be 16 before we get a fully healed JC.

Now that's assuming he doesn't slip on the way to the fridge and blow out his other knee. And don't forget appendicitis, goiter, genital warts, and the ever present mild case of hair loss causing consternation, depression, and a disruption to his practice schedule.

But I'm pretty sure by 2017, we'll have a good player. Just wait gang. It's all roses and lollipops here in Texan land.
 
steelbtexan said:
How?

One above avg season is not a predictor of the future.
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If he can take what you've assessed as an 8-8 team to 10-6 with Fitzpatrick as his QB in his first year, we should expect more of the same in the future. It may not happen, but with everything stacked against him, it points to good things ahead.
 
Texans_Chick said:
That doesn't sound like what I understood it to be either.
Click to expand...

CloakNNNdagger said:
There is a technique that has been referred to as new, but in fact it has been around for quite some time. In this technique, mesenchymal stem cells (precursor cells that have the ability to transform into mature cells such as tendon, ligament, and new joint cartilage cells......depending were they are injected) are isolated and cultured from bone marrow aspiration of the iliac crest (the hip rim). The mesenchymal stem cells, sometimes with additional components such as platelets, are then percutaneously injected into the subject's knee with MRI proven degenerative joint disease. In time, significant pain relief and variable cartilage growth has been demonstrated. There are no definitive studies that I am aware of that reflect that this is a consistent long term solution for athletes, with especially sparse results in professional sports players. Although there have been quite a few NFL players that have in the past few years tried to turn to this technique (which BTW has been promoted by Dr. Andrews), reports of any success have been limited thus far to anecdotal in nature.
Click to expand...

Steph,

Came across this article that now more than ever makes me think that indeed the percutaneous mesenchymal stem cell technique is likely, at least in part, the technique that was recommended/performed.

Stem Cell Treatment: Out from the Shadows, Onto the Cutting Edge
The Jets’ Chris Johnson is one of hundreds of NFL players who’ve turned to stem cells to aid in recovery from injury. It may be the next big breakthrough in the treatment of sports ailments, but for now the use of such therapy is strictly limited in the U.S.—and questions about effectiveness outweigh the answers
 
Porky said:
So Jadaveon Joppru is a big fat zero. Let's see. A sports hernia followed by surgery just for running around in OTA's? Or a remnant from his senior year? Hmmm, slow healer or easily injured?

Then a concussion in a practice....because ya those are common and happen to dozens and dozens of players every year while running around in shorts or shells.

Then first game in the NFL and you jump in the air, land awkwardly, totally non-contacted, and blow out a knee, which requires not one, but 2 surgeries with a total "supposed" recovery time of a year and we will be lucky to see a completely healthy JC in 2015 at all. It's easy to surmise it will be 16 before we get a fully healed JC.

Now that's assuming he doesn't slip on the way to the fridge and blow out his other knee. And don't forget appendicitis, goiter, genital warts, and the ever present mild case of hair loss causing consternation, depression, and a disruption to his practice schedule.

But I'm pretty sure by 2017, we'll have a good player. Just wait gang. It's all roses and lollipops here in Texan land.
Click to expand...

knee–jerk adjective \ˈnē-ˌjərk, -ˈjərk\
: occurring quickly and without thought
: often reacting quickly and without thought

ppreflex.gif
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Steph,

Came across this article that now more than ever makes me think that indeed the percutaneous mesenchymal stem cell technique is likely, at least in part, the technique that was recommended/performed.

Stem Cell Treatment: Out from the Shadows, Onto the Cutting Edge
The Jets’ Chris Johnson is one of hundreds of NFL players who’ve turned to stem cells to aid in recovery from injury. It may be the next big breakthrough in the treatment of sports ailments, but for now the use of such therapy is strictly limited in the U.S.—and questions about effectiveness outweigh the answers
Click to expand...

You know, I was going to ask you if there was a stem cell treatment for this, but thought it sounded silly.

No dumb questions right?
 
infantrycak said:
For you or the 90% of the damn MB that has lost their f'kin minds in having to have someone to blame for every little thing in life?



You lost it long ago and don't even make the slightest attempt at objectivity.



It appears having 1-1 go down has tipped the remainder.



Risks are not risks only if someone f'ks up down the road. CLOWNEY ALWAYS WAS A RISK and you and most people wanted him. Now stop being this because you came up snake eyes:



Ashlyn%27s_middle_finger.jpg
Click to expand...


Now that's classy. Smh.
 
infantrycak said:
For you or the 90% of the damn MB that has lost their f'kin minds in having to have someone to blame for every little thing in life?

You lost it long ago and don't even make the slightest attempt at objectivity.

It appears having 1-1 go down has tipped the remainder.

Risks are not risks only if someone f'ks up down the road. CLOWNEY ALWAYS WAS A RISK and you and most people wanted him. Now stop being this because you came up snake eyes:

Ashlyn%27s_middle_finger.jpg
Click to expand...


You objectivity when it comes to the Texans comes into doubt.

All of the cute little pictures in the world cant erase the failure that has been the 1st 12 yrs and counting of this franchise. Your love of all things the McNair's do knows no bounds. If I'm a betting man I'm willing to say that Clowney playing on that knee fall directly on Bob/Cal McNair.

With the investment in Clowney that they've made you would have to be a fool to think otherwise. There's a long history of injury treatment like this and ultimately every decision made by the Texans org be it injuries/Smith/keeping Kubiak for 8 yrs /the condition of the field falls on the McNair's.

As for rolling snake eyes I still think it's still way too early to make that call. But the McNair's certainly didn't do Clowney any favors. Counselor the jury is still out on Clowney's future. Even though those who didn't want Clowney 1-1 are more than willing to jump on the Clowney pick was stupid bandwagon.

I just love how those fans were basically calling Clowney a pu**y because he couldn't play on a knee that needed microfracture surgery.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Steph,

Came across this article that now more than ever makes me think that indeed the percutaneous mesenchymal stem cell technique is likely, at least in part, the technique that was recommended/performed.

Stem Cell Treatment: Out from the Shadows, Onto the Cutting Edge

The Jets’ Chris Johnson is one of hundreds of NFL players who’ve turned to stem cells to aid in recovery from injury. It may be the next big breakthrough in the treatment of sports ailments, but for now the use of such therapy is strictly limited in the U.S.—and questions about effectiveness outweigh the answers
Click to expand...
That sounds like an imperfect application of a questionable outcome technique that creates a windfall of cash for those proponents hoping to leverage it into an industry.
CloakNNNdagger said:
Thanks for the update, Steph.

The procedure you must be referring to is the OATS procedure (or osteoarticular cartilage transplantation). In extreme simplistic terms, it is like a counterpart to hair transplantation.

The improvement over the traditional microfracture surgery is that the multiple holes created by the drill are filled with plugs of cartilage that are still attached to underlying bone (taken from a less important little weight-bearing donor site). Because of its lack of blood supply, cartilage grafts have a miserable take percentage and poor track record for joint reconstruction. By actually placing raw bone in direct contact with raw bone, 2 well blood supplied surfaces can grow together, and the piggy backed cartilage remains viable and intact on the joint surface.

The results in some limited studies have shown significant improvement over traditional microfracture surgery.
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The above sounds like the better option to me -- and perhaps the most specialized...?

A composite graft gives the cartilage something to "hang on to" and get blood supply from, which is the main failing of microfracture to my understanding.

But of course JD got the former, not the latter.
 
To me this thread shows people care. If people didn't care they wouldn't be Texans :logo:

Everybody should be pulling for Clowney. IMO Texans should have never even been in position to select him in the first place, he is a blessing, it just ain't going to be easy, for him his coaches, ownership & especially Texan fans :fans:
 
Porky said:
So Jadaveon Joppru is a big fat zero. Let's see. A sports hernia followed by surgery just for running around in OTA's? Or a remnant from his senior year? Hmmm, slow healer or easily injured?

Then a concussion in a practice....because ya those are common and happen to dozens and dozens of players every year while running around in shorts or shells.

Then first game in the NFL and you jump in the air, land awkwardly, totally non-contacted, and blow out a knee, which requires not one, but 2 surgeries with a total "supposed" recovery time of a year and we will be lucky to see a completely healthy JC in 2015 at all. It's easy to surmise it will be 16 before we get a fully healed JC.

Now that's assuming he doesn't slip on the way to the fridge and blow out his other knee. And don't forget appendicitis, goiter, genital warts, and the ever present mild case of hair loss causing consternation, depression, and a disruption to his practice schedule.

But I'm pretty sure by 2017, we'll have a good player. Just wait gang. It's all roses and lollipops here in Texan land.
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Just don't call him injury prone. :shades: even though he's "often sustaining injuries"

What a bummer. I don't play the blame game. Hindsight is always 20/20 and makes everyone an expert at second guessing.

Just sucks to see the cycle of curse continue in Houston pro football.
 
I guess this news establishs once and for all that this is not about Clowneys desire or lack of heart, or that he was fabricating or faking an injury when all he had to do was go back on the field and start playing again. This is clearly no joke, and there's real concern that his career may be at risk. And another thing, if Texans medical staff is such as a bunch of quacks, why did Clowney return to Lowe for the surgery that was just performed this week ?
 
IDEXAN said:
I guess this news establishs once and for all that this is not about Clowneys desire or lack of heart, or that he was fabricating or faking an injury when all he had to do was go back on the field and start playing again. This is clearly no joke, and there's real concern that his career may be at risk. And another thing, if Texans medical staff is such as a bunch of quacks, why did Clowney return to Lowe for the surgery that was just performed this week ?
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I was completely wrong on that. The guys knee was seriously injured and he played, practiced and trained right through it. Props to Clowney.

HOU-TEX said:
They went in to repair the meniscus injury, noticed the cartilage damage and decided to let him attempt to play through it. Why? Should've shut the kid down right then
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Because microfracture surgery is worse than a coin flip. If he could play through it, it would be much better for him long term to not have the surgery.
 
kingtexan said:
Mack
Matthews
Evans
Robinson
Watkins
(now that we know what he can do) Beckham Jr
Gilbert
Lewan
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This is who I wanted from the jump, but once I realized it was gonna be Clowney or bust I just dealt with it. Just imagine reuniting him with Hopkins, and also having Dre, and Foster on the offense... :cool:

I just knew once they signed Fitz, that there was really no chance of them drafting a QB. So I figured grab Watkins, and make the offense all Oilers Run-N-Shoot bad ass, and worry about QB this upcoming draft.

However, I can want in one hand and crap in the other. :polevault:
 
steelbtexan said:
It seems that the Texans medical staff seems to have a long history of picking the wrong possible outcome. In fact that seems to be what they're expertise is.

1. Boselli
2. DDW
3. Joppru
4. Spencer
5. Schaub
6. etc........
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Don't forget Ed Reed.
 
JamesBill said:
I was completely wrong on that. The guys knee was seriously injured and he played, practiced and trained right through it. Props to Clowney.
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That's classy of you man ! Nice to see someone say here they were too hard on JD after it turns out he probably actually played with a great deal of discomfort, likely pain. And the thing is he's a 21-year-old kid and all he's ever known is his sports, and now all of that may be taken away from him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Steph,

Came across this article that now more than ever makes me think that indeed the percutaneous mesenchymal stem cell technique is likely, at least in part, the technique that was recommended/performed.

Stem Cell Treatment: Out from the Shadows, Onto the Cutting Edge
The Jets’ Chris Johnson is one of hundreds of NFL players who’ve turned to stem cells to aid in recovery from injury. It may be the next big breakthrough in the treatment of sports ailments, but for now the use of such therapy is strictly limited in the U.S.—and questions about effectiveness outweigh the answers
Click to expand...
Thanks Doc! I was looking for the one on Chris Johnson. Could not remember details but was remembering the "stem cell" TX as being the new thing.
 
Nothing I have seen explains it exactly the way I understand it. It is supposed to be a newer technique meant for younger athletes for not only short term recovery, but longer term prognosis.
 
Runner said:
He had the most hype, that's for sure. I posted and linked a source somewhere a few weeks ago that in the last 20 drafts only three of the 1/1 picks were defensive players. Two of those picks were by the Texans brain trust. I doubt that trend would have been bucked by most of the teams in the league this year.

I don't buy the "once in a generation" hyperbole either, unless we are talking fruit flies. Mario was also a "once in a generation player" too. "Generations" are coming around as fast as the Texans having the first pick in the draft. That's been a fairly quick cycle.
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Nooo... back in the 2006 time frame the "once in a generation" guy was Reggie ("the next Gayle Sayers") Bush
 
disaacks3 said:
Hey, YOU were the one claiming nobody else wanted him @ 1-1.
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No, I claimed that he wouldn't be a unanimous choice by every team in the league, as you stated when you said everybody wanted him at @1-1. I didn't say nobody wanted him @ 1-1.

I stay away from absolutes. They are always wrong.
 
Runner said:
No, I claimed that he wouldn't be a unanimous choice by every team in the league, as you stated when you said everybody wanted him at @1-1. I didn't say nobody wanted him @ 1-1.

I stay away from absolutes. They are always wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually, you claimed quite a bit more. Your statement:
I think that "consensus" pick is incorrect anyway. I think that "consensus" pick is incorrect anyway. I doubt that most teams would have picked him 1/1.
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Most? As in 17/32?

That's your post I responded to. Care to support the original assertion?
 
disaacks3 said:
Actually, you claimed quite a bit more. Your statement:
Most? As in 17/32?

That's your post I responded to. Care to support the original assertion?
Click to expand...

Sure. Given the recent history of first draft picks (17/20 being offensive players), I think at least 17 teams would have gone with other players, probably all on the offensive side of the ball. There were enough questions about Clowney that some teams would not have risked drafting him. That is how I support my opinion.

Care to support your assertions that:

1) All 32 teams would have picked him 1/1.
2) I said that nobody would have picked him at 1/1.
 
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