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Inside Info: 2020 to be Watson’s last season as a Texan!

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
True and this is the reason I would have held onto him. Philly is hurting at WR bad and if they wouldn't give up a 1st that speaks volumes.
Philly's WRs are hurting literally Desean Jackson (core muscle surgery) and Alshon Jeffery (lisfranc) end the season IR and account for 22 million or so. yes hurting, but lots of money already tied up at Wr with a guy wanting nearly double that amount. Speculating more went into that than pure player value.

On the bigger picture of did, the Texans get a better offer,? My guestimation is that BOB values a guy like Johnson so differently than most of the NFL that the Texans could have gotten a better offer in the eyes many others, but O'Brien did not like it as much as what he got.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Yes they had interest, Clowney did not..how is that on BoB? Hell, from what Clowney himself said, he says BoB told him when he came in to sign the tender that he was going to trade him to Miami & according to Clowney, that’s when he decided NOT to sign it; b/c he wanted to “play for a contender”...thereby sabotaging the deal. Bob was in effect being straight up with the dude. He could’ve not told him anything, watched him sign it and then shipped his ass outta here in the deal without telling him **** until after.

by finagling out of the reported Miami deal...whatever it was, Clowney thought he was going to be able finesse Seattle and other teams into giving him what the Texans wouldn’t. Fatal mistep on his part considering that Miami was all too willing to do that.........if he had just signed the tender. He’s now dealing with the fallout of that decision.

In you guys’ disgust for BoB ya’ll are simultaneously giving these players a pass.
So Clowney is talking out both sides of his mouth? He refuses to play for Miami b/c it's not about the money (they probably give him the money he wants) but all about winning. He finally gets traded to the Seahawks who are contenders, gets a decent season under his belt and when the Seahawks were ready to talk contract.....suddenly it's all about the money.

A smart GM would've had multiple teams on the hornand not just one team. Nor would a smart GM had sat in the corner and pouted b/c Clowney one upped him by shooting his first trade option down. What really happened.....OB just wasn't prepared to be a GM and much less the lead in orchestrating the Clowney trade.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
Eh, if they want to keep him but he wants out, they'll honor his wishes.
Agreed. If a player wants to be traded badly enough he can work that out. Look what Antonio Brown did last year with the Raiders. Behavior like that would go against his character, and he would lose some money but Watson still has a choice in the matter. Hell, he could retire for a couple of years.

Saying Watson doesn’t have a say in the matter (him having to play for O’Brien) is like saying free will doesn’t exist at all.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So Clowney is talking out both sides of his mouth? He refuses to play for Miami b/c it's not about the money (they probably give him the money he wants) but all about winning. He finally gets traded to the Seahawks who are contenders, gets a decent season under his belt and when the Seahawks were ready to talk contract.....suddenly it's all about the money.

A smart GM would've had multiple teams on the hornand not just one team. Nor would a smart GM had sat in the corner and pouted b/c Clowney one upped him by shooting his first trade option down. What really happened.....OB just wasn't prepared to be a GM and much less the lead in orchestrating the Clowney trade.
So Clowney is talking out both sides of his mouth? He refuses to play for Miami b/c it's not about the money (they probably give him the money he wants) but all about winning. He finally gets traded to the Seahawks who are contenders, gets a decent season under his belt and when the Seahawks were ready to talk contract.....suddenly it's all about the money.

A smart GM would've had multiple teams on the hornand not just one team. Nor would a smart GM had sat in the corner and pouted b/c Clowney one upped him by shooting his first trade option down. What really happened.....OB just wasn't prepared to be a GM and much less the lead in orchestrating the Clowney trade.

yeah, b/c Steelers GM Kevin Colbert wasn’t experienced enough to handle the contract demands of a diva WR in Antonio Brown that was growing more and more unglued by the day. Thaaaaaat’s why he only got a 3rd and a 5th for him! Surely if he were more prepared as their GM he not only would’ve had another team on deck, that team would’ve given him much more....:sarcasm:.......:rolleyes:
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
Philly's WRs are hurting literally Desean Jackson (core muscle surgery) and Alshon Jeffery (lisfranc) end the season IR and account for 22 million or so. yes hurting, but lots of money already tied up at Wr with a guy wanting nearly double that amount. Speculating more went into that than pure player value.

On the bigger picture of did, the Texans get a better offer,? My guestimation is that BOB values a guy like Johnson so differently than most of the NFL that the Texans could have gotten a better offer in the eyes many others, but O'Brien did not like it as much as what he got.
found this not long after posting here (Philly local source, so there is that)

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So Clowney is talking out both sides of his mouth? He refuses to play for Miami b/c it's not about the money (they probably give him the money he wants) but all about winning. He finally gets traded to the Seahawks who are contenders, gets a decent season under his belt and when the Seahawks were ready to talk contract.....suddenly it's all about the money.

A smart GM would've had multiple teams on the hornand not just one team. Nor would a smart GM had sat in the corner and pouted b/c Clowney one upped him by shooting his first trade option down. What really happened.....OB just wasn't prepared to be a GM and much less the lead in orchestrating the Clowney trade.
How do you know this didn't happen?
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
It means Watson's under contract and the front office holds the cards, which includes a franchise tag and now a team-favorable CBA. If Watson is not a Texan within the next three years, it's O'Brien's decision, not Watson's.

And unfortunately that's a real risk because O'Brien is the GM version of the Joker shooting hostages to get what he wants.
I never said it wasn’t OB’s decision. Not sure why I was quoted originally.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I don't really buy it since they made all this cap room to pay Watson and Tunsil plus you got Watson for two more years plus two more tag years; he's not going anywhere
Cap space now is approximately 35 million but they won't lose it if they don't use it. Roll over 2021 if not used this year.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Cap space now is approximately 35 million but they won't lose it if they don't use it. Roll over 2021 if not used this year.
Roll it over and don't improve the team. Seems to be a Texan theme. BTW, the cap is going to rise considerably in 2021.

How is it the Cowboys can pay 10 mil each to Collins/Smith/Martin in addition to paying top $$$$ for Dak/Zeke/Cooper. Then on defense pay top $$$$ for Lawrence/and their LB corps and still sign FA's like Poe/McCoy but the Texans have to sit out FA?

This has been a Texans theme through 2 regimes. It looks like Cal has learned well from his daddy.

Sorry, I'm not buying the BS anymore.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
I don't agree that Watson is mediocre.

I am not sure exactly what OB is trying to do, not sure he does either, but so far OB is where the mediocrity falls.

Only thing that OB has proven during his tenure is that he is a failure as a coach and now he is failing as a GM.

:coffee:
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think O’Brien is a failure as a HC. I just haven’t seen him improve at anything over the last 6 years. And I’ve seen his ceiling - he’s reached it. His teams can on very rare occasions be competitive against some of games best but they can also come out flat and uninspired against less talented teams. Those types of games are his floor. Recent example occurred this past season when the Texans got their asses handed to them at home by Denver. That game was over by halftime. That was also the game where old “teapot” blew his top heading into the tunnel.

I believe with O’Brien being now the official GM as well as HC we’re going to see less of the BoB ceiling and more of the floor.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
Unpopular opinion but I don’t think O’Brien is a failure as a HC. I just haven’t seen him improve at anything over the last 6 years. And I’ve seen his ceiling - he’s reached it. His teams can on very rare occasions be competitive against some of games best but they can also come out flat and uninspired against less talented teams. Those types of games are his floor. Recent example occurred this past season when the Texans got their asses handed to them at home by Denver. That game was over by halftime. That was also the game where old “teapot” blew his top heading into the tunnel.

I believe with O’Brien being now the official GM as well as HC we’re going to see less of the BoB ceiling and more of the floor.

Sounds like the definition of mediocre to me. :)

Appreciate the reply.

:coffee:
 
Sounds like the definition of mediocre to me. :)

Appreciate the reply.

:coffee:
There's a saying that Jim Ross of wrestling fame use to say about guys that left WWE and then came back. "Sometimes you have to go learn a new hold." I agree with Banned that OB has hit his ceiling in Houston just like BB hit his in Cleveland, Reid hit his in Philly and Kubiak hit his here. OB might win a SB some day but it won't be in Houston so its time for both to look for greener pastures. Houston is a round hole and OB and his team design have become a square peg, my only worry is how many corners are they going to shave off trying to make that peg fit before its all said and done.

The one good thing about all this is that when OB does leave Houston, and it will happen because it always does in the NFL, with him has GM and HC maybe we will finally not have the two positions fighting with each other as ideally they will bring in a GM and then let him pick his own HC.
 
I was just watching FS1 and it was stated that DW4 left cryptic tweets that he is unhappy with the situation in Houston with the Texans. Where there is smoke there is fire. I would not be surprised if BO'b deals with the situation by trading DW4 and settles for far less than his trade value.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I was just watching FS1 and it was stated that DW4 left cryptic tweets that he is unhappy with the situation in Houston with the Texans. Where there is smoke there is fire. I would not be surprised if BO'b deals with the situation by trading DW4 and settles for far less than his trade value.
curious what do you think that another NFL team would trade for him? Not what you think his value is or what I think his value is, but what other NFL teams would be willing to give up to get him.
 
curious what do you think that another NFL team would trade for him? Not what you think his value is or what I think his value is, but what other NFL teams would be willing to give up to get him.
I doubt any teams are desperate enough to give us what anyone would consider a fair trade. With a talent like Cam Newton available for as long as he has been and still no takers it appears the market for a Qb is not as big as it usually is. Plus most teams figure BO'b will be mad enough to give DW4 away for less than what most people and GM's would consider a fair deal.

I am not sure of the compensation in players coming with the trade but I would expect a few first and some top four draft picks for this season and next.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I doubt any teams are desperate enough to give us what anyone would consider a fair trade. With a talent like Cam Newton available for as long as he has been and still no takers it appears the market for a Qb is not as big as it usually is. Plus most teams figure BO'b will be mad enough to give DW4 away for less than what most people and GM's would consider a fair deal.

I am not sure of the compensation in players coming with the trade but I would expect a few first and some top four draft picks for this season and next.
Thanks for response. Raiders trade Derek Carr would you be okay with 1.12 + 1.18 this draft and a 2021 third?

Say 1.12 WR Jerry Judy or Cee Dee Lamb and 1.18 QB Jordan Love 2.40 WR Jaylen Raegor 2.57 RG Robert Hunt?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Maybe because Deshaun Watson IS the only player that’s worth a damn in the entire roster? He’s the face of the franchise wether the O’Brien apologists like it or not. Top 10, maybe even 5 (active) QB.
In your opinion.

I'm of the opinion he held back the offense last yr. Look at the last 5 games, he was bad whether the WOF's want to admit that or not.
 
Thanks for response. Raiders trade Derek Carr would you be okay with 1.12 + 1.18 this draft and a 2021 third?

Say 1.12 WR Jerry Judy or Cee Dee Lamb and 1.18 QB Jordan Love 2.40 WR Jaylen Raegor 2.57 RG Robert Hunt?
Both trade scenarios look good to me.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Thanks for response. Raiders trade Derek Carr would you be okay with 1.12 + 1.18 this draft and a 2021 third?
Would be hard to turn this down... would put you in cap trouble in 4 years but that could be dealt with
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't agree that Watson is mediocre.

I am not sure exactly what OB is trying to do, not sure he does either, but so far OB is where the mediocrity falls.

Only thing that OB has proven during his tenure is that he is a failure as a coach and now he is failing as a GM.

:coffee:
BOB's not a failure, he's mediocre.

You will see about DW4. It's already begun at the end of last season. Unless you think Moon was a HOF player, which is something we will have to agree to disagree about. Moon was a loser both on and off of the field.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep. O'Brien was trotting out a perennial top 10 offense and then Watson showed up and held the offense back. It's all Watson's fault that the offense has underachieved since 2014.
Have you watched the ol play before this past season for the last 3 seasons? Plus it's kinda hard to have a top 10 offense with Hoyer/Fitz/Mallett/Is playing like crap at QB BTW, RS made the final call on alll personnel decisions.

Wouldn't you say it was amazing that they won as many games as they did.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Would be hard to turn this down... would put you in cap trouble in 4 years but that could be dealt with
I expect David Johnson $7 m and Watt $17.5 m off roster after this year plus we have $80 m cap space not including extra from new CBA. In addition as of now we can roll over $30 m from 2020. Trouble..?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I expect David Johnson $7 m and Watt $17.5 m off roster after this year plus we have $80 m cap space not including extra from new CBA. In addition as of now we can roll over $30 m from 2020. Trouble..?
In addition to Tunsil, you will be having a huge percentage of your core group hitting at the same time with all those high draft picks .
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
MIN- 2019 Stefon Diggs / G: 15 / R: 63 / Y: 1,130 / TD: 6
HOU- 2019 DeAndre Hopkins / G: 15 / R: 104 / Y: 1,165 / TD: 7

The Vikings get from the Bills:
2020 RD1-22-022 / RD5-22-168 / RD6-22-202 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Bills get from the Vikings:
WR- Stefon Diggs (14.5M 2020 Cap) / RD7-25-240


The Texans get from the Cardinals:
RB- David Johnson (11.2M 2020 Cap) / 2020 RD2-05-040 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Cardinals get from the Texans:
WR- DeAndre Hopkins (12.5M 2020 Cap Non-Guaranteed / 2020 RD4-25-131

Again, explain how the Vikings did so well moving Diggs and the Texans are left with egg on their face moving Hopkins.
18 places in the draft and 12m for a broken down rb who going to get cut. The should've gotten the wr from AM and not taken Johnson salary.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Why didn't the Texans offense progress during the past six seasons? The only constant was OB creating the weekly game plan and calling the plays on game day. With and without a decent to below average OL.....OB's offensive yields have remained, not so good. Great, mediocre, and pisspoor QB's not withstanding, the results are usually the same.

If I had to stake my name as to what has prevented Watson from evolving into a top 5 QB in the NFL, the first facts will and should point directly at OB and his offensive genius or lack thereof.

I believe the only way the Texans would ever be able to finally force OB to front and center of this shite-show......trade Watson to the Steelers for Rothlisberger (and his full contract b/c OB wouldn't have it any other way) straight-up. Now before anyone jumps the gun remember who the Texans have as GM at the moment. OB could finally have his pocket-passing QB for maybe a couple of seasons and the Steelers would laugh right themselves right back into solid AFC contenders. Hell, might as well make it a package deal and ship Watt (while eating 30% of his contract....you know OB) with him so he can play his final seasons with a top notch organization and his brothers. Maybe and damn this would be a big maybe, OB could get the Steelers to throw in a 2020 RD2 and 2021 RD2 as part of the deal.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If I had to stake my name as to what has prevented Watson from evolving into a top 5 QB in the NFL, the first facts will and should point directly at OB and his offensive genius or lack thereof.
So you don't think Watson is a top 5 QB in the NFL? & if he were a top 5 QB in the NFL, would that be due to OB's offensive genius?
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Philly's WRs are hurting literally Desean Jackson (core muscle surgery) and Alshon Jeffery (lisfranc) end the season IR and account for 22 million or so. yes hurting, but lots of money already tied up at Wr with a guy wanting nearly double that amount. Speculating more went into that than pure player value.

On the bigger picture of did, the Texans get a better offer,? My guestimation is that BOB values a guy like Johnson so differently than most of the NFL that the Texans could have gotten a better offer in the eyes many others, but O'Brien did not like it as much as what he got.
Exactly we don’t know he took the best offer. Most likely he didn’t. And from what I’ve read from Philadelphia it was OB that was laying out the offers. He was the one calling and asking for specific players.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
So you don't think Watson is a top 5 QB in the NFL? & if he were a top 5 QB in the NFL, would that be due to OB's offensive genius?
Yes and no. It’s his ability to take a **** play and make something happen on his own that separates him from so many other QBs.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yes and no. It’s his ability to take a **** play and make something happen on his own that separates him from so many other QBs.
How many plays were there for DW4 to make that didn't get made. Alot of times he has to make thing out of nothing and it's because of his own doing because of his habit of holding onto the ball too long.
 

Mangler

Veteran
How many plays were there for DW4 to make that didn't get made. Alot of times he has to make thing out of nothing and it's because of his own doing because of his habit of holding onto the ball too long.
Not gonna lie, there were plenty of times when Watson had me yelling at the TV for him to throw the god dang ball away instead of scrambling side to side. Aaron Rodgers does the same thing all the time. I still think Watson has more upside and untapped potential, we just need to get a coach that can tap into it.
 


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