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Inside Info: 2020 to be Watson’s last season as a Texan!

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Isn’t it going to be more difficult for Watson now that Hopkins is gone, to post improved metrics?
It shouldn't be as long as WFV stays healthy. I see Cobb doing about as well as Nuk did in the slot next yr. 65-75 catches.

A guy I'm looking at late in the 3rd/early 4th is Lynn Bowden. He can play slot or outside. Dude was the best athlete on the field most games in the SEC.

I would love to get y'alls thoughts on Bowden/vs Van Jefferson/vs Claypool. I see all of these guys going in this range.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
BOB's not a failure, he's mediocre.

You will see about DW4. It's already begun at the end of last season. Unless you think Moon was a HOF player, which is something we will have to agree to disagree about. Moon was a loser both on and off of the field.
DW4's biggest drawback is OB's lack of creativity in his offense. Debo utilized Watson's skill set.

Don't think I've ever said anything about Moon on this site, ever. Run and shoot sealed his fate. Threw a beautiful spiral. But so did Pastorini :)

I guess it was a false assumption of mine that you considered anything less than the Lombardi a failure. Thought you had stated that a time or two. My bad.

:coffee:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
DW4's biggest drawback is OB's lack of creativity in his offense. Debo utilized Watson's skill set.

Don't think I've ever said anything about Moon on this site, ever. Run and shoot sealed his fate. Threw a beautiful spiral. But so did Pastorini :)

I guess it was a false assumption of mine that you considered anything less than the Lombardi a failure. Thought you had stated that a time or two. My bad.

:coffee:
The NFL is a much different animal than college.

Moon couldn't even lead a team to an AFCCG. He lead the team that blew 35-3 lead midway thru the 3rd qtr. Moon had the more talented team.

This was even worse than 51-7. Even though 51-7 was bad, the Texans weren't the most talented team on the field that day.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Watson should be ok, as long as Cobb handles his business in the slot, and Fuller stays healthy. (Highly doubtful though) Kenny Stills is probably going to be our most consistent WR, health wise. I’m more worried about the defense!
If you put it that way I’m more worried about the coaching, game planning, fitting offense around Watson, clock management and keeping the locker room. Lol
:bigboss:
 

Mangler

Veteran
If you put it that way I’m more worried about the coaching, game planning, fitting offense around Watson, clock management and keeping the locker room. Lol
:bigboss:
Even though having losing seasons sucks, and we would know, I hope O’Brien loses the locker room this time around. It’s probably the only way we will see change. You know the McNairs love their AFC South Championship banners.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Even though having losing seasons sucks, and we would know, I hope O’Brien loses the locker room this time around. It’s probably the only way we will see change. You know the McNairs love their AFC South Championship banners.
I can't imagine hating a coach enough to want my team to lose. Why not change loyalty to a team that has a coach you like?
 
O’Brien has already begun the rebuild (but I don’t feel the term applies here, later on that). It started last year and got kicked into another gear with the trade of Hopkins.

BoB and the preacher are trying to build the Texans into the Patriots. Without Belichick and Brady (the two GOAT individuals), it’s doomed for failure.

Year two of the tear-down. O’Brien won’t be here for the actual rebuild. The rebuild requires someone with a vision of something that can actually work. It’s going to take someone with creativity. O’Brien thinks he has the cheat code for how to win Super Bowl’s just because he spent a few years in New England with the hoody. He thinks poaching Jack Easterby was the final piece. But unless you can replicate the greatness of BB and TB, throw in a team full of players who share your vision and culture you’re destined for failure. All O’Brien has done is he has torn the team apart. As fans all we can really hope for is that the McNair’s figure this out before O’Brien discards Watson.
Watson will be in NE starting for them in the 2021 season. Watch
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
O’Brien has already begun the rebuild (but I don’t feel the term applies here, later on that). It started last year and got kicked into another gear with the trade of Hopkins.

BoB and the preacher are trying to build the Texans into the Patriots. Without Belichick and Brady (the two GOAT individuals), it’s doomed for failure.

Year two of the tear-down. O’Brien won’t be here for the actual rebuild. The rebuild requires someone with a vision of something that can actually work. It’s going to take someone with creativity. O’Brien thinks he has the cheat code for how to win Super Bowl’s just because he spent a few years in New England with the hoody. He thinks poaching Jack Easterby was the final piece. But unless you can replicate the greatness of BB and TB, throw in a team full of players who share your vision and culture you’re destined for failure. All O’Brien has done is he has torn the team apart. As fans all we can really hope for is that the McNair’s figure this out before O’Brien discards Watson.
LOL

If DW4 was as good as you think he is then this should be no problem.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Clowney thing, what's going on with him now should show everyone that its entirely plausible that no, they couldn't get much more for him than what they actually got. This is what Seattle is faced with now. Sign him to a deal they think he's worth..which is not what he thinks he's worth...........or get a comp 3rd.

and with Nuk..look, we know Philly turned them down......... so I guess what it comes down to is whether or not you believe that only those 3 other teams rumored to be interested in trading for him.....& Philly were the only 4 teams that the Texans FO checked with &/or inquired about him over this what 5-6 month period when they were quietly shopping him. I have to believe that if Pellissero got word about this trade 2 weeks before it actually happened, then there were probably more teams that did inquire or that the FO checked with. My gut says that Buffalo was one of those teams & may have pulled the trigger on the deal for exactly what Minny got..but as with Philly, the big deal breaker for them was knowing that Nuk wanted a pay raise. Then here comes Arizona offering a player that BoB covets and a 2nd rounder....& you don't have to see him the AFC.

If you look at Diggs' deal, he has exactly the same number of years left and makes fairly close to the same amount of money as Nuk. But he ain't asking for a pay bump of 4-5 million per..............& he's younger than Nuk too. If i'm Buffalo, i make the deal for Diggs over Nuk in that situation too.
Great post

Some here refuse to admit the reality of what Nuk was worth. I agree with them I would've held onto him. Caveat is I wasn't in the building with Nuk on a daily basis. Do they really think Nuk a yr older would be worth more in trade next yr after a season where he would be unhappy and still wanting a new contract? In addition to maybe even getting less because as other GM said in that article they think Nuk is in the beginning of decline.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
O’Brien has already begun the rebuild (but I don’t feel the term applies here, later on that). It started last year and got kicked into another gear with the trade of Hopkins.

BoB and the preacher are trying to build the Texans into the Patriots. Without Belichick and Brady (the two GOAT individuals), it’s doomed for failure.

Year two of the tear-down. O’Brien won’t be here for the actual rebuild. The rebuild requires someone with a vision of something that can actually work. It’s going to take someone with creativity. O’Brien thinks he has the cheat code for how to win Super Bowl’s just because he spent a few years in New England with the hoody. He thinks poaching Jack Easterby was the final piece. But unless you can replicate the greatness of BB and TB, throw in a team full of players who share your vision and culture you’re destined for failure. All O’Brien has done is he has torn the team apart. As fans all we can really hope for is that the McNair’s figure this out before O’Brien discards Watson.
Maybe the problem is he uses the cheat code for Donkey Kong instead of using the code for Tecmo Bowl...all players want money and to be a champion (not necessarily in that order). The more difficult task of the two is to be a champion. So after 6 years, the question is do players believe in O'Brien being able to lead them to a championship? It wouldn't be necessary for the player to have been here the entire 6 years to get a feel for it. They need to resign #4 now versus later.
 
Why Clowney who has proven to be money hungry is still a topic I'm not sure. Guy wanted a ton of money and nobody knew what his knee would do. Probably had a deal with an extension planned IF it held up. But, instead of taking it he waited and stirring the pot. That's a locker room cancer and weather he was or wasn't told about being traded to me doesn't matter.

As for Hokins, I like him. I like Johnson when he is 100% or close. So, I can't wait to see if OB messed up or if it works out. Because IF Hopkins was trying to get a huge deal and McNair wasn't ready to do it with a fair amount on his current deal left. I can see him telling OB to shop him. Why with the Cards and not someone else...no idea. As for Watson, I don't know if he will leave or not. He is mad now, but come midseason how will he be? If he is still upset then he will want out. However, if they are playing well and winning...
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Moon was absolutely a HOF player. Made some mistakes off the field not gonna lie. The team he was on was just broken.

Mike
That team was great. Their leader (If you want to call him that) choked when it mattered most. He never made it to an AFCCG and that's certainly not HOF material. IMHO
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
That team was great. Their leader (If you want to call him that) choked when it mattered most. He never made it to an AFCCG and that's certainly not HOF material. IMHO
Moon was never going to make it to an AFCCG in that era with Jerry Glanville and Jack "Cuck" Pardee as head coach, put him on a San Fran team with Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice and I bet he puts up better numbers than Montana did. Hell he did put up better numbers than Montana did in one of those years Montana won MVP, 1990? Moon wasn't the problem for those Oilers teams the problem was ownership and coaching, a lot of people like to put it on Moon though because he was black and making a lot of money.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
This should have been the choice, IMO. Then afterwards tell Clowney it was a business decision in the best interest of the team. Clowney made his choice to come in and sign when he saw fit that it was in his best interest. Then he chose not to sign because OB showed his hand to soon. OB is who the Texans have and it sure as hell isn't enjoyable. OB's history, as short as it may be in calling the shots in trades, has not been good. If he were to trade Watson, I have zero confidence that he would find someone that would outperform what Watson has done.
Both Clowney and O'Brien blew it last year because JDC was coming off maybe his best year in 2018 with 9 sacks, so virtually a double sack season.
Unfortuanlety for JD his sights were just too high as were evrybodys for a year or two as there were rumors that former GM Gain was holding out for two #1 ala the Kahmil Mack trade for JDC.
After the fiasco with JDC last year Cal McNair still went ahead and made O'Brien his GM.
It just defies explanation ? And now after the trade involving Hopkins and O'Brien remains as the McNair families GM-HC going into next weeks 2020 Draft ?
Some folks in these parts say all the McNair family cares about re the Texans is the mercenary aspect of owning an NFL franchise. Well if that's the case then why are the McNairs standing idly by as O'Brien deals away the franchises most valuable assets at bargain basement prices ?
So anyway I'm way past being able to understand what makes the McNair clan tick ?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Moon was never going to make it to an AFCCG in that era with Jerry Glanville and Jack "Cuck" Pardee as head coach, put him on a San Fran team with Bill Walsh and Jerry Rice and I bet he puts up better numbers than Montana did. Hell he did put up better numbers than Montana did in one of those years Montana won MVP, 1990? Moon wasn't the problem for those Oilers teams the problem was ownership and coaching, a lot of people like to put it on Moon though because he was black and making a lot of money.
Of course he wasn't.

Pardee had won Coach of the yr in the NFL before he became the Oilers HC.

We're having this kind of discussion right now about BOB/DW4, 35-3, 24-0 at some point the players have to take responsibility and teams usually follow their leader. The leader is usually the QB.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Of course he wasn't.

Pardee had won Coach of the yr in the NFL before he became the Oilers HC.

We're having this kind of discussion right now about BOB/DW4, 35-3, 24-0 at some point the players have to take responsibility and teams usually follow their leader. The leader is usually the QB.
OB's elite coaching career:

1993-1993 Brown University TE Coach
1994-1994 Brown University ILB Coach
1995-1997 Georgia Tech Graduate Asst
1998-2000 Georgia Tech RB Coach
2001-2002 Georgia Tech OC/QB Coach
2003-2004 University of Maryland RB Coach
2005-2006 Duke University OC/QB Coach

2007-2007 Patriots Offense Asst. (Go-Fer)
2008-2008 Patriots WR Coach
2009-2010 Patriots QB Coach (Tom's Personal Asst)
2011-2011 Patriots OC (Beli & Tom's Personal Asst)

2012-2013 Penn State HC

2014-2018 TEXANS HC/OC
2019-2019 TEXANS HC/GM
2020-Curr TEXANS GM/HC....OC?

At what point in this illustrious career would any team think.....now this is a can't miss GM? Much less a HC? Much-Much Less an NFL OC?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
OB's elite coaching career:

1993-1993 Brown University TE Coach
1994-1994 Brown University ILB Coach
1995-1997 Georgia Tech Graduate Asst
1998-2000 Georgia Tech RB Coach
2001-2002 Georgia Tech OC/QB Coach
2003-2004 University of Maryland RB Coach
2005-2006 Duke University OC/QB Coach

2007-2007 Patriots Offense Asst. (Go-Fer)
2008-2008 Patriots WR Coach
2009-2010 Patriots QB Coach (Tom's Personal Asst)
2011-2011 Patriots OC (Beli & Tom's Personal Asst)

2012-2013 Penn State HC

2014-2018 TEXANS HC/OC
2019-2019 TEXANS HC/GM
2020-Curr TEXANS GM/HC....OC?

At what point in this illustrious career would any team think.....now this is a can't miss GM? Much less a HC? Much-Much Less an NFL OC?
We were talking about Pardee/Moon
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
OB's elite coaching career:

1993-1993 Brown University TE Coach
1994-1994 Brown University ILB Coach
1995-1997 Georgia Tech Graduate Asst
1998-2000 Georgia Tech RB Coach
2001-2002 Georgia Tech OC/QB Coach
2003-2004 University of Maryland RB Coach
2005-2006 Duke University OC/QB Coach

2007-2007 Patriots Offense Asst. (Go-Fer)
2008-2008 Patriots WR Coach
2009-2010 Patriots QB Coach (Tom's Personal Asst)
2011-2011 Patriots OC (Beli & Tom's Personal Asst)

2012-2013 Penn State HC

2014-2018 TEXANS HC/OC
2019-2019 TEXANS HC/GM
2020-Curr TEXANS GM/HC....OC?

At what point in this illustrious career would any team think.....now this is a can't miss GM? Much less a HC? Much-Much Less an NFL OC?
The only thing more irrelevant than a HC's previous stops before becoming a HC is said HC's playing career.
 

Earl34

Veteran
OB's elite coaching career:

1993-1993 Brown University TE Coach
1994-1994 Brown University ILB Coach
1995-1997 Georgia Tech Graduate Asst
1998-2000 Georgia Tech RB Coach
2001-2002 Georgia Tech OC/QB Coach
2003-2004 University of Maryland RB Coach
2005-2006 Duke University OC/QB Coach

2007-2007 Patriots Offense Asst. (Go-Fer)
2008-2008 Patriots WR Coach
2009-2010 Patriots QB Coach (Tom's Personal Asst)
2011-2011 Patriots OC (Beli & Tom's Personal Asst)

2012-2013 Penn State HC

2014-2018 TEXANS HC/OC
2019-2019 TEXANS HC/GM
2020-Curr TEXANS GM/HC....OC?

At what point in this illustrious career would any team think.....now this is a can't miss GM? Much less a HC? Much-Much Less an NFL OC?
The guy's resume is thin. He has never developed a young NFL QB. He has never been an NFL OC who implemented a system or had multiple years calling plays for a top 10 offense. Even the recent hires like McVay, Shanahan, LafLeur, Nagy, Pederson and even Reich had more NFL experience and success than O'Brien. Just something to think about.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The guy's resume is thin. He has never developed a young NFL QB. He has never been an NFL OC who implemented a system or had multiple years calling plays for a top 10 offense. Even the recent hires like McVay, Shanahan, LafLeur, Nagy, Pederson and even Reich had more NFL experience and success than O'Brien. Just something to think about.
What young QB did he have to develop other than DW4? Don't give me Savage
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The guy's resume is thin. He has never developed a young NFL QB. He has never been an NFL OC who implemented a system or had multiple years calling plays for a top 10 offense. Even the recent hires like McVay, Shanahan, LafLeur, Nagy, Pederson and even Reich had more NFL experience and success than O'Brien. Just something to think about.
About the only thing you can say about all these guys is they are all west coast guys and they all call "prettier" games than BoB. That's really it.

Have you seen Doug Pederson's "resume"? Not much there as a pro coach prior to becoming the HC for the eagles. Also, Only 2 guys on your list have really developed a young qb..McVay with Cousins and Goff and Reich with Wentz in 2016. If you wanna give Shanahan credit for "developing" Jimmy G...ok. but his numbers don't look any better than DW4's under BoB & DW4 has done it more than 1 year under BoB & we've seen his growth over the years. Jimmy G? not so much. His stats look pretty good from this past year but he hasn't put together more than 1 season like that and he looked awfully suspect in the playoffs this year for them despite their SB run..you could argue his play is what lost them that game.

& Lol at Lafluer and Nagy. They basically got their HC gigs by being associated with Reid and McVay. They haven't been successful at "implementing" anything either really. Everyone knows McVay and Reid call the plays for their respective offenses. Lafleur and Nagy had figurehead titles as OC's for their respective teams under Reid and McVay...much like Eric Bienemy did this past year. The years they were actually calling plays for thier respective teams as OC's? Lafleur was god awful for the Titans and Nagy for the Bears & with Trubisky over the last 2 years? Their offense has been amongst the worst in the league.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
What young QB did he have to develop other than DW4? Don't give me Savage
Every QB that walked through the Texans doors. Mallet was his hand-picked Franchise QB. Osweiler was the McNair's hand-picked QB. Watson was RS's hand-picked Franchise QB. Throw in the other QB's that OB worked with and in all reality......he's had zero success. In NE, Tom Brady was successful before O'Brien ever even got there to be caretaker for a while. Watson has done enough off-script to help OB keep his job. Bottom-line....I wouldn't trust OB with another rookie "Franchise QB".
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
M
Every QB that walked through the Texans doors. Mallet was his hand-picked Franchise QB. Osweiler was the McNair's hand-picked QB. Watson was RS's hand-picked Franchise QB. Throw in the other QB's that OB worked with and in all reality......he's had zero success. In NE, Tom Brady was successful before O'Brien ever even got there to be caretaker for a while. Watson has done enough off-script to help OB keep his job. Bottom-line....I wouldn't trust OB with another rookie "Franchise QB".
Mallett and Os?

LMAO

How have they fared with other teams? Did they perform better in Houston than the other teams they ended up with?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
About the only thing you can say about all these guys is they are all west coast guys and they all call "prettier" games than BoB. That's really it.

Have you seen Doug Pederson's "resume"? Not much there as a pro coach prior to becoming the HC for the eagles. Also, Only 2 guys on your list have really developed a young qb..McVay with Cousins and Goff and Reich with Wentz in 2016. If you wanna give Shanahan credit for "developing" Jimmy G...ok. but his numbers don't look any better than DW4's under BoB & DW4 has done it more than 1 year under BoB & we've seen his growth over the years. Jimmy G? not so much. His stats look pretty good from this past year but he hasn't put together more than 1 season like that and he looked awfully suspect in the playoffs this year for them despite their SB run..you could argue his play is what lost them that game.

& Lol at Lafluer and Nagy. They basically got their HC gigs by being associated with Reid and McVay. They haven't been successful at "implementing" anything either really. Everyone knows McVay and Reid call the plays for their respective offenses. Lafleur and Nagy had figurehead titles as OC's for their respective teams under Reid and McVay...much like Eric Bienemy did this past year. The years they were actually calling plays for thier respective teams as OC's? Lafleur was god awful for the Titans and Nagy for the Bears & with Trubisky over the last 2 years? Their offense has been amongst the worst in the league.
Quoted for truth
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
M

Mallett and Os?

LMAO

How have they fared with other teams? Did they perform better in Houston than the other teams they ended up with?
Mallet was selected by OB and he sucked. Osweiler was forced on OB and he sucked. Watson was selected by RS and he's done enough for OB to help him keep his job and get a promotion. Any success the defenses had during the OB period was RC's banner. The mediocre offense was and is OB's gem.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mallet was selected by OB and he sucked. Osweiler was forced on OB and he sucked. Watson was selected by RS and he's done enough for OB to help him keep his job and get a promotion. Any success the defenses had during the OB period was RC's banner. The mediocre offense was and is OB's gem.
They gave up a 6th or 7th Rd pick for Mallett. That's the definition of taking a flier on a guy with talent but is a headcase. It didn't work out, but to call Mallett BOB'S handpicked franchise QB is being disingenuous.

My opinion is DW4 is going to cost BOB his job. Not save it.
 

Earl34

Veteran
OB's elite coaching career:

1993-1993 Brown University TE Coach
1994-1994 Brown University ILB Coach
1995-1997 Georgia Tech Graduate Asst
1998-2000 Georgia Tech RB Coach
2001-2002 Georgia Tech OC/QB Coach
2003-2004 University of Maryland RB Coach
2005-2006 Duke University OC/QB Coach

2007-2007 Patriots Offense Asst. (Go-Fer)
2008-2008 Patriots WR Coach
2009-2010 Patriots QB Coach (Tom's Personal Asst)
2011-2011 Patriots OC (Beli & Tom's Personal Asst)

2012-2013 Penn State HC

2014-2018 TEXANS HC/OC
2019-2019 TEXANS HC/GM
2020-Curr TEXANS GM/HC....OC?

At what point in this illustrious career would any team think.....now this is a can't miss GM? Much less a HC? Much-Much Less an NFL OC?
BTW, here is a podcast providing more details to your post. They cover O'Brien and his 94th ranked offenses at Duke to his fortunate arrival on the Patriots.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bill-obrien-cooking-the-books/id1013135614?i=1000471542649
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
Of course he wasn't.

Pardee had won Coach of the yr in the NFL before he became the Oilers HC.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe he had ever won an NFL playoff game as a head coach before coming to Houston. The year he won COTY was the 10-6 season with Washington in 1979 where they missed the playoffs because of giving up a big 4th quarter lead against the Cowboys in the season finale. He and Glanville were severely outmatched standing across the field from coaches like Levy, Schottenhiemer, Reeves, Noll, a group of coaches that combined for like 15 AFCCG appearances.

It's crazy to put all the blame on Moon, he was not perfect and certainly deserves some of it but look at the three ring circus that Bud Adams ran here with that Oiler team. Look at the garbage coaching on both sides of the ball. Look at how far the Run N Shoot fell from grace around the NFL by the end of the 1991 season, the 92 season, and going into the 1993 season. Look at all the drama surrounding that 93 squad. It was a lot of circumstances to consider, I mean look at that loss to San Diego early in the 93 season we were robbed because a blind referee ruled a game winning touchdown pass out of bounds when it was clear as day he was in. Had the refs gotten that right we would have been 13-3 and #1 seed in the AFC, we would have played the Jeff Hostetler Raiders in the divisional round instead of Montana and Marcus Allen, I'm sure we would have made it to the AFCCG in those circumstances.

I don't think there were many quarterbacks from that era better than Moon. I think he would have utterly dominated had he played in today's era with the way the rules are now. You look back at the state of the NFL in 1993 and it was crazy how good defense was across the league(I believe it was one of the lowest scoring seasons in NFL history in the 16 game era, almost every team had a lights out defense, I believe over half the league allowed fewer than 300 points, while you could count the teams that scored over 300 on one hand), it was crazy how much more physical the game was, it was almost a different sport entirely. Put Moon in today's NFL and he is better than just about everybody. He was definitely better than George Blanda, who played against sub-XFL quality competition those early AFL years(there was no such thing as defense in 1960-1961 AFL lol). He was better than a lot of other QB's that got into the HOF. Moon was easily one of the greatest of all time.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe he had ever won an NFL playoff game as a head coach before coming to Houston. The year he won COTY was the 10-6 season with Washington in 1979 where they missed the playoffs because of giving up a big 4th quarter lead against the Cowboys in the season finale. He and Glanville were severely outmatched standing across the field from coaches like Levy, Schottenhiemer, Reeves, Noll, a group of coaches that combined for like 15 AFCCG appearances.

It's crazy to put all the blame on Moon, he was not perfect and certainly deserves some of it but look at the three ring circus that Bud Adams ran here with that Oiler team. Look at the garbage coaching on both sides of the ball. Look at how far the Run N Shoot fell from grace around the NFL by the end of the 1991 season, the 92 season, and going into the 1993 season. Look at all the drama surrounding that 93 squad. It was a lot of circumstances to consider, I mean look at that loss to San Diego early in the 93 season we were robbed because a blind referee ruled a game winning touchdown pass out of bounds when it was clear as day he was in. Had the refs gotten that right we would have been 13-3 and #1 seed in the AFC, we would have played the Jeff Hostetler Raiders in the divisional round instead of Montana and Marcus Allen, I'm sure we would have made it to the AFCCG in those circumstances.

I don't think there were many quarterbacks from that era better than Moon. I think he would have utterly dominated had he played in today's era with the way the rules are now. You look back at the state of the NFL in 1993 and it was crazy how good defense was across the league(I believe it was one of the lowest scoring seasons in NFL history in the 16 game era, almost every team had a lights out defense, I believe over half the league allowed fewer than 300 points, while you could count the teams that scored over 300 on one hand), it was crazy how much more physical the game was, it was almost a different sport entirely. Put Moon in today's NFL and he is better than just about everybody. He was definitely better than George Blanda, who played against sub-XFL quality competition those early AFL years(there was no such thing as defense in 1960-1961 AFL lol). He was better than a lot of other QB's that got into the HOF. Moon was easily one of the greatest of all time.
Moon was a loser, both on and off of the field.

The metoo movement finally caught up with him.
 

Earl34

Veteran
About the only thing you can say about all these guys is they are all west coast guys and they all call "prettier" games than BoB. That's really it.

Have you seen Doug Pederson's "resume"? Not much there as a pro coach prior to becoming the HC for the eagles. Also, Only 2 guys on your list have really developed a young qb..McVay with Cousins and Goff and Reich with Wentz in 2016. If you wanna give Shanahan credit for "developing" Jimmy G...ok. but his numbers don't look any better than DW4's under BoB & DW4 has done it more than 1 year under BoB & we've seen his growth over the years. Jimmy G? not so much. His stats look pretty good from this past year but he hasn't put together more than 1 season like that and he looked awfully suspect in the playoffs this year for them despite their SB run..you could argue his play is what lost them that game.

& Lol at Lafluer and Nagy. They basically got their HC gigs by being associated with Reid and McVay. They haven't been successful at "implementing" anything either really. Everyone knows McVay and Reid call the plays for their respective offenses. Lafleur and Nagy had figurehead titles as OC's for their respective teams under Reid and McVay...much like Eric Bienemy did this past year. The years they were actually calling plays for thier respective teams as OC's? Lafleur was god awful for the Titans and Nagy for the Bears & with Trubisky over the last 2 years? Their offense has been amongst the worst in the league.
Here is a good discussion about O'Brien's background and qualifications.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bill-obrien-cooking-the-books/id1013135614?i=1000471542649
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I can not speak to him off the field, but exactly what do you mean he was a loser on the field? He was a 9x Pro Bowler, led the league in passing yards and TDs a couple of years, and was once voted NFLs Man of the Year award. What exactly makes him a loser?
I am tainted by all the assault and sleeping around and/or wrong ways to treat women, so I was never a deep fan. He reminds me of Matt Stafford, always has the stats, can spin the rock no doubt, but seemed to miss something at the big crunch times. The truly great QB's seem to get their teammates to the next level, real leader of men. I see that in DW4 when he is on the field, I personally think he could show more on the sideline, not piss and vinegar, but hold guys more accountable. I am torn though, because his other strength is staying cool knowing I got this, but still think he can get some guys to raise their game. All that being said, it is the pro football league and between Canada and NFL Moon deserves some serious love for what he did all those years on the field. NOt everyone gets rings or has the right org to get them there
 

RGV82

Random guy
I am tainted by all the assault and sleeping around and/or wrong ways to treat women, so I was never a deep fan. He reminds me of Matt Stafford, always has the stats, can spin the rock no doubt, but seemed to miss something at the big crunch times. The truly great QB's seem to get their teammates to the next level, real leader of men. I see that in DW4 when he is on the field, I personally think he could show more on the sideline, not piss and vinegar, but hold guys more accountable. I am torn though, because his other strength is staying cool knowing I got this, but still think he can get some guys to raise their game. All that being said, it is the pro football league and between Canada and NFL Moon deserves some serious love for what he did all those years on the field. NOt everyone gets rings or has the right org to get them there
Hey I am not here to debate his potential, and what he did or did not do. I was simply questioning him being called a "LOSER on the field". He was not the greatest on the field and had some flaws, but calling him a loser on the field is quite extreme, considering how good he was.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I can not speak to him off the field, but exactly what do you mean he was a loser on the field? He was a 9x Pro Bowler, led the league in passing yards and TDs a couple of years, and was once voted NFLs Man of the Year award. What exactly makes him a loser?
Beat his wife off the field.

Lost the biggest lead in NFL HISTORY and NEVER MADE IT TO AN AFCCG despite having the more talented teams several yrs. When things got tough Moon folded like a cheap tent.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Beat his wife off the field.

Lost the biggest lead in NFL HISTORY and NEVER MADE IT TO AN AFCCG despite having the more talented teams several yrs. When things got tough Moon folded like a cheap tent.
Ok, I did not even read the rest of your post when I clearly stated I can not speak to him being a loser off the field, but asked about him being a loser ON the field, and your first response is "beat his wife OFF the field".
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Yeah some of us Iive these perfect lives. Sin free.

I don't care about Moon's personal life. Wasn't my business. But on the football field he was darn good. That's the reason why he's in the Hall of Fame. And if he off the life was that bad, it would've taking him even longer to get into the HOF.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeah some of us Iives these perfect lives. Sin free.

I don't care about Moon's personal life. Wasn't my business. But on the football field he was darn good. That's the reason why he's in the Hall of Fame. And if he off the life was that bad, it would've taking him even longer to get into the HOF.
I'm not ok with beating women.

As far as on field his historic choking speaks for itself.
 

RGV82

Random guy
I'm not ok with beating women.

As far as on field his historic choking speaks for itself.
There are many many professional athletes who are in Hall of Fames all across the world who had very shady personal lives. Social media wasn’t around back then so it was relatively unknown. Jim Brown for example, arguably the greatest player of all time had numerous arrests for domestic assault towards women.
 

KA4Texan

Weirdo Mode Engaged
Contributor's Club
With stories of DW wearing dolphins gear inFlorida and the other little pieces.......

I wont be surprised if he is traded away for a bag of beef jerky
 
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