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Inside Info: 2020 to be Watson’s last season as a Texan!

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I haven't really seen anything stating what the Texans turned down before accepting the Cardinals offer. I've heard heresay but nothing definitive. Texans held the ace of spades and treated it like 9 of clubs.
Everything that has come out about this has been "hearsay". Nuk nor BoB & the FO have come out and said anything but things that convey mutual respect for each other in this order... ..seems some of this hearsay is being weighed more heavily than others in you guys' minds though.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Agree. Last year, the Eagles had injuries at WR. As a result, they tweaked their offense and ended up with a 4000 yard passer with 27 TDs and not one WR had 500 yard receiving. The entire passing game was built around the two TEs with over 222 targets and the RBs.

The Eagles proved they could rank 12th in scoring without a great WR. So, with a deep WR draft and their healthy WRs, I can see them not wanting to give up a 1st rounder for Hopkins. Also, for the same reason you mentioned with the Bills, maybe O'Brien didn't want to send Hopkins to the Patriots. Which reiterates the point that there was no real need to trade him NOW.
If not trade him now...then when? when he's 1 year older? After next season? then you risk him getting injured & his value really plummeting. Oh by the way, him wanting to get a pay raise likely wasn't going away either.
 

Earl34

Veteran
If not trade him now...then when? when he's 1 year older? After next season? then you risk him getting injured & his value really plummeting. Oh by the way, him wanting to get a pay raise likely wasn't going away either.
Even a year later, the guy is only 28 years old. His game is not built on speed, so it's not like a year later he loses a step. If he gets injured, he's still playing on his old contract and you use his injury as leverage. With the new CBA, holding out is punitive. Hopkins didn't have any leverage. You tell him come to camp, practice and we will talk or seek a trade.

At this point, I'm still not convinced with the money they gave Cobb, Mercilus and Martin that they couldn't rework the contract with some upfront money and keep Hopkins. Maybe if they had a creative, experienced, salary cap expert in the front office, this would be a moot point.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Even a year later, the guy is only 28 years old. His game is not built on speed, so it's not like a year later he loses a step. If he gets injured, he's still playing on his old contract and you use his injury as leverage. With the new CBA, holding out is punitive. Hopkins didn't have any leverage. You tell him come to camp, practice and we will talk or seek a trade.

At this point, I'm still not convinced with the money they gave Cobb, Mercilus and Martin that they couldn't rework the contract with some upfront money and keep Hopkins. Maybe if they had a creative, experienced, salary cap expert in the front office, this would be a moot point.
Well, that creative, experienced salary cap expert & GM was in the front office for:

The Schaub extension
The Ed Reed deal
The Brock Osweiler deal
watching AJ Bouye leave without so much as an offer
watching Glover Quinn leave without so much as an offer

and a litany of other moves that were questionable so that doesn't seem to exactly be the secret sauce either. Reputed incompetence doesn't seem to skip over those guys either.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Well, that creative, experienced salary cap expert & GM was in the front office for:

The Schaub extension
The Ed Reed deal
The Brock Osweiler deal
watching AJ Bouye leave without so much as an offer
watching Glover Quinn leave without so much as an offer

and a litany of other moves that were questionable so that doesn't seem to exactly be the secret sauce either. Reputed incompetence doesn't seem to skip over those guys either.
Okay. You got me on that one. I'm exiting stage right. LOL
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
The Clowney thing, what's going on with him now should show everyone that its entirely plausible that no, they couldn't get much more for him than what they actually got. This is what Seattle is faced with now. Sign him to a deal they think he's worth..which is not what he thinks he's worth...........or get a comp 3rd.

and with Nuk..look, we know Philly turned them down......... so I guess what it comes down to is whether or not you believe that only those 3 other teams rumored to be interested in trading for him.....& Philly were the only 4 teams that the Texans FO checked with &/or inquired about him over this what 5-6 month period when they were quietly shopping him. I have to believe that if Pellissero got word about this trade 2 weeks before it actually happened, then there were probably more teams that did inquire or that the FO checked with. My gut says that Buffalo was one of those teams & may have pulled the trigger on the deal for exactly what Minny got..but as with Philly, the big deal breaker for them was knowing that Nuk wanted a pay raise. Then here comes Arizona offering a player that BoB covets and a 2nd rounder....& you don't have to see him the AFC.

If you look at Diggs' deal, he has exactly the same number of years left and makes fairly close to the same amount of money as Nuk. But he ain't asking for a pay bump of 4-5 million per..............& he's younger than Nuk too. If i'm Buffalo, i make the deal for Diggs over Nuk in that situation too.
Less you forget the Dolphins interest in Clowney. OB and whoever didn't make a move quick enough b/c they were under some kind of idea that Clowney would return before he sat out......wrong call. Had they acted earlier, they probably make a trade with Miami that sends them Clowney in return for their own headache, Tunsil. Miami gets a top EDGE and the Texans get a top LT and no draft picks are swapped. If Miami is eager to throw Stills into the deal, Texans might get away with Coutee in return or a RD5. Oh.....and the Texans would still possess their 2020 and 2021 RD1 picks plus their 2021 RD2 pick.

When the trade is complete.....next job is getting Tunsil and his agent in the office to hammer out an extension before the season starts.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Even a year later, the guy is only 28 years old. His game is not built on speed, so it's not like a year later he loses a step. If he gets injured, he's still playing on his old contract and you use his injury as leverage. With the new CBA, holding out is punitive. Hopkins didn't have any leverage. You tell him come to camp, practice and we will talk or seek a trade.

At this point, I'm still not convinced with the money they gave Cobb, Mercilus and Martin that they couldn't rework the contract with some upfront money and keep Hopkins. Maybe if they had a creative, experienced, salary cap expert in the front office, this would be a moot point.
They might've tried something as simple as "guaranteeing" the balance of his contract. The same thing Brown was seeking and the Texans were refusing......so they lost him.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Less you forget the Dolphins interest in Clowney. OB and whoever didn't make a move quick enough b/c they were under some kind of idea that Clowney would return before he sat out......wrong call. Had they acted earlier, they probably make a trade with Miami that sends them Clowney in return for their own headache, Tunsil. Miami gets a top EDGE and the Texans get a top LT and no draft picks are swapped. If Miami is eager to throw Stills into the deal, Texans might get away with Coutee in return or a RD5. Oh.....and the Texans would still possess their 2020 and 2021 RD1 picks plus their 2021 RD2 pick.

When the trade is complete.....next job is getting Tunsil and his agent in the office to hammer out an extension before the season starts.
Yes they had interest, Clowney did not..how is that on BoB? Hell, from what Clowney himself said, he says BoB told him when he came in to sign the tender that he was going to trade him to Miami & according to Clowney, that’s when he decided NOT to sign it; b/c he wanted to “play for a contender”...thereby sabotaging the deal. Bob was in effect being straight up with the dude. He could’ve not told him anything, watched him sign it and then shipped his ass outta here in the deal without telling him **** until after.

by finagling out of the reported Miami deal...whatever it was, Clowney thought he was going to be able finesse Seattle and other teams into giving him what the Texans wouldn’t. Fatal mistep on his part considering that Miami was all too willing to do that.........if he had just signed the tender. He’s now dealing with the fallout of that decision.

In you guys’ disgust for BoB ya’ll are simultaneously giving these players a pass.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They could’ve gotten much more for Clowney, I’m putting that on Gaine. They could’ve had a 1st and a 3rd if Gaine didn’t sit on his hands. They waited too long and KC went in another direction. If you don’t believe that it’s fine but it’s what happened.

Personally, I do think if they had truly opened up the market they could’ve gotten more from Hop as well. There was no real need to trade him now. Just be cause the Eagles didn’t want him doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been a better market for him. Maybe Hop isn’t the best fit, they’ve got 2 really good TEs, and a pretty strong WR core (when healthy). In that instance I can see why they wouldn’t want to drop big coin on another WR. Common sense dictates if Buffalo paid what they did for Diggs you should’ve been able to get something similar for Hop. Hop would be an awesome fit there. What makes sense is OB views Buff as more of an obstacle and didn’t want to send him there
True and this is the reason I would have held onto him. Philly is hurting at WR bad and if they wouldn't give up a 1st that speaks volumes.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I haven't really seen anything stating what the Texans turned down before accepting the Cardinals offer. I've heard heresay but nothing definitive. Texans held the ace of spades and treated it like 9 of clubs.
So you really think they would have taken a lesser deal if it was available?
 
Yes they had interest, Clowney did not..how is that on BoB? Hell, from what Clowney himself said, he says BoB told him when he came in to sign the tender that he was going to trade him to Miami & according to Clowney, that’s when he decided NOT to sign it; b/c he wanted to “play for a contender”...thereby sabotaging the deal. Bob was in effect being straight up with the dude. He could’ve not told him anything, watched him sign it and then shipped his ass outta here in the deal without telling him **** until after.

by finagling out of the reported Miami deal...whatever it was, Clowney thought he was going to be able finesse Seattle and other teams into giving him what the Texans wouldn’t. Fatal mistep on his part considering that Miami was all too willing to do that.........if he had just signed the tender. He’s now dealing with the fallout of that decision.

In you guys’ disgust for BoB ya’ll are simultaneously giving these players a pass.
This should have been the choice, IMO. Then afterwards tell Clowney it was a business decision in the best interest of the team. Clowney made his choice to come in and sign when he saw fit that it was in his best interest. Then he chose not to sign because OB showed his hand to soon. OB is who the Texans have and it sure as hell isn't enjoyable. OB's history, as short as it may be in calling the shots in trades, has not been good. If he were to trade Watson, I have zero confidence that he would find someone that would outperform what Watson has done.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
This should have been the choice, IMO. Then afterwards tell Clowney it was a business decision in the best interest of the team. Clowney made his choice to come in and sign when he saw fit that it was in his best interest. Then he chose not to sign because OB showed his hand to soon. OB is who the Texans have and it sure as hell isn't enjoyable. OB's history, as short as it may be in calling the shots in trades, has not been good. If he were to trade Watson, I have zero confidence that he would find someone that would outperform what Watson has done.
that would be dirty as hell, but ok.

And let’s not forget this is Clowney’s version of events. I don’t think he’d lie, but Clowney could’ve already had an idea that he was likely going to be traded after he signed the tender via his agent and just could’ve asked BoB about it to confirm. He maintains that he was not contacted by BoB at all until that faithful day when he was called by BoB to come in and sign the tender.

perhaps his agent got a call from several teams inquiring about what he was asking for contract wise and that tipped everything off.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yes, in theory it would, but so far with Tunsil, Clowney, and Hopkins OB has shown he's way over his head when it comes to trading players. You also seem to value draft picks way more than he has shown to.
I can see your point on draft picks value. Set aside what you think of how he used picks. The picks for Tunsil may have gotten us high enough in 2020 draft to get one of the tackles projecting to right tackle in NFL but probably not to top 8 where pure LT Becton will go. One of others might start LT day one..maybe but should we have risked Watson 2019? And what if high 2019 got us a good OT would he have been pro bowl?Tunsil started All Season despite his false starts and more importantly kept Watson mostly on his feet. regardless of whether Tunsil plays here after this year he starts 2 years. In O'Brien opinion and mine Tunsil was worth picks. Clowney 3rd and our own got us starting CB and decent Duke Johnson. Could Duke be utilized better? Of course yet OB filled positions. OB got RT first round and 7 of 14 game starter CB Lonnie Johnson round 2. Despite injuries & LJ not starting 16, OB used picks to fill starting roles as he also did with Scharping. So yeah I want to see how he uses picks with no one arguing with him. Be better if he had one or two high firsts plus for Watson whom more and more on MB think may be gone by 2021.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Has anyone thought that Watson and/or his manager decided to use the Hopkins trade to their benefit in contract extension discussions? By dangling the possibility that he is entertaining the thought of moving on to another team, it might force a desperate team (Texans) to hurry up and get a sizable deal done.

Best case scenario Watson gets paid. Worst case scenario, other teams start to inquire about his "trade availability".
Another thought is that other teams may Ponder what was given for Hopkins and think that if Watson comes available they want to make a better deal than others Might offer to get a franchise quarterback. That could lead to bidding war.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Personally, I think OB far under-graded the talent he was willing to move and far exceeded the value of those he signed.

I'd like to get your grade for the following 3 moves:

1. Clowney to Seattlen F-

2. Tunsil to Texans D-

3. Hopkins to Cardinals -Z-----
Tunsil get's a D- because he actually played pretty well once he got acclimated. If there had been a contract extension in place, this would be an A- or B+. I'm not sure how it's possible to get a negative Z with 5 minuses, but OB pulled it off.
 
that would be dirty as hell, but ok.

And let’s not forget this is Clowney’s version of events. I don’t think he’d lie, but Clowney could’ve already had an idea that he was likely going to be traded after he signed the tender via his agent and just could’ve asked BoB about it to confirm. He maintains that he was not contacted by BoB at all until that faithful day when he was called by BoB to come in and sign the tender.

perhaps his agent got a call from several teams inquiring about what he was asking for contract wise and that tipped everything off.
Why would it be dirty if Bill had already not spoken to him until that particular day (according to Clowney) and Bill had presumably been in talks with Miami. If I'm following your preference, shouldn't Bill have told Clowney or his agent as soon as he started talking to Miami? If he waited that long, again IMO why give up the leverage you have at that time? As a manager/leader, sometimes you are not privy to disclose business decisions until a time that is deemed necessary and to me that would have been after the signing (maybe a couple of days after). Overall my point is Bill does not have a reputable track record (again its short) with trades, particularly involving the 2 major moves he has been responsible for. As as it pertains to this thread, I do not want him having anything to do with a trade involving Deshaun Watson.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Why would it be dirty if Bill had already not spoken to him until that particular day (according to Clowney) and Bill had presumably been in talks with Miami. If I'm following your preference, shouldn't Bill have told Clowney or his agent as soon as he started talking to Miami? If he waited that long, again IMO why give up the leverage you have at that time? As a manager/leader, sometimes you are not privy to disclose business decisions until a time that is deemed necessary and to me that would have been after the signing (maybe a couple of days after). Overall my point is Bill does not have a reputable track record (again its short) with trades, particularly involving the 2 major moves he has been responsible for. As as it pertains to this thread, I do not want him having anything to do with a trade involving Deshaun Watson.
Perhaps Clowney’s camp was still under the impression that they still were trying to negotiate a long term deal for him to stay. Perhaps they erroneously thought that there was absolutely no way he would be traded given who and what he was to the defense. Either way, BoB is under no obligation to tell Clowney anything in regards to what they are trying to do as he wasn’t under contract and the franchise tag tender they placed on him kept him from FA. That’s why it was comical to me folks talking about him having more leverage. Bottom line for him was that he wanted a long term deal and if he couldn’t get that he wanted to go to FA to seek it, both of which he didn’t get while he was here.

I think part of Bill’s issue is that he knows these guys really well and is on some level close to them having coached them for years as their HC. but when he puts the GM hat on, he expects these guys to not take the business decisions and conversations that come out of being the GM personally, but as professionals....and THEY just can’t do that.

So I’m saying it would be dirty for him as a professional to not tell Clowney if his intentions were to trade him to Miami as has been speculated. as a professional though it might’ve behooved him to inform Clowney of that.....as a business & professional courtesy. I mean think about it, it’s business, but these guys have to pick up their families and move around when they get traded.

“hey, it’s really nothing personal JD, but we’ve been at this contract negotiation thing with you for some time now and its obvious we’re not going to agree...but we have a tentative deal in place with a party that is very much interested in u, perhaps u can have better luck with them. We just need u to sign the tender.”

the problem is these guys DO take it personal like BoB’s trying to screw them over. This is b/c not only have they been conditioned to think that way about NFL FO teams in general by their agents, it is of course a “personal” rejection. Basically they’ve been told that they aren’t worth what they’re asking for. Its a huge blow to their ego. In Nuk’s case it’s like “ I have been all-pro 3 straight years, never been in any trouble...and you come at me like this b/c I want a little more money?”
 
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theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
I think part of Bill’s issue is that he knows these guys really well and is on some level close to them having coached them for years as their HC. but when he puts the GM hat on, he expects these guys to not take the business decisions and conversations that come out of being the GM personally, but as professionals....and THEY just can’t do that.

So I’m saying it would be dirty for him as a professional to not tell Clowney if his intentions were to trade him to Miami as has been speculated. as a professional though it might’ve behooved him to inform Clowney of that.....as a business & professional courtesy. I mean think about it, it’s business, but these guys have to pick up their families and move around when they get traded.

“hey, it’s really nothing personal JD, but we’ve been at this contract negotiation thing with you for some time now and its obvious we’re not going to agree...but we have a tentative deal in place with a party that is very much interested in u, perhaps u can have better luck with them. We just need u to sign the tender.”

the problem is these guys DO take it personal like BoB’s trying to screw them over. This is b/c not only have they been conditioned to think that way about NFL FO teams in general by their agents, it is of course a “personal” rejection. Basically they’ve been told that they aren’t worth what they’re asking for. Its a huge blow to their ego. In Nuk’s case it’s like “ I have been all-pro 3 straight years, never been in any trouble...and you come at me like this b/c I want a little more money?”
My personal opinion (and I have 0 evidence to back my theory up), is that the Clowney trade as well as the fallout O'Brien received was a parting gift from Coach to player. Sort of a "Despite the lopsided return and the ridicule I will get, I'm giving you your wish and sending you to a contender. Good luck and thank you for your services."
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
My personal opinion (and I have 0 evidence to back my theory up), is that the Clowney trade as well as the fallout O'Brien received was a parting gift from Coach to player. Sort of a "Despite the lopsided return and the ridicule I will get, I'm giving you your wish and sending you to a contender. Good luck and thank you for your services."
Most people can’t handle the truth for fear of being screwed over by snakes. it’s only after they’ve dealt with some real snakes that they come to realize the error in their thought process about those who truly meant them no harm by giving them the truth.

Clowney’s finding out now how much truth he ignored and might just end up in the very situation he thought he was avoiding by not signing the tender do he can be traded to Miami.

Seattle’s defense with him wasn’t all that great, he’s not gonna get the money and deal he wants and he’s only getting older and more susceptible to injury.
 

banned1976

American
Desean's all up in his feelings on Twitter these days.

Those tweets are about O'Brien. He's not going to post about personal stuff with all the media scrutiny right now.
Someone on 790 yesterday made the comment that athletes tend to use song lyrics to get their point across without really addressing the person they’re upset with directly. I follow a lot of athletes on Twitter and I can see that. The guy on 790 went on to joke that teenage girls do the same thing when they’re upset with someone. So yeah, Watson got his feelings hurt and now he’s lashing out on Twitter like a 13 year old girl. Not a good look.
 
True and this is the reason I would have held onto him. Philly is hurting at WR bad and if they wouldn't give up a 1st that speaks volumes.
Not really, Philly is hurting at WR but as has been said this is a deep class and Philly is in a good spot to get their own Hopkins. On top of that they are dealing with the QB trap that they have fallen into with Wentz so I'm not surprised they wouldn't give up a 1st especially if Hopkins did want a new deal. I really think the that is one of the biggest reasons that the offers were so bad if reports are true. Why pay top dollar this year for a WR when you might can draft your own version and get them cheap for 5 years. WR is one of the few positions that really translate well from college to NFL with little adjustment. I think Cards made an offer because they had dreams of a young, hotshot QB throwing to two legendary WRs. It was a pipe dream until OB made their dreams come true.
 
My personal opinion (and I have 0 evidence to back my theory up), is that the Clowney trade as well as the fallout O'Brien received was a parting gift from Coach to player. Sort of a "Despite the lopsided return and the ridicule I will get, I'm giving you your wish and sending you to a contender. Good luck and thank you for your services."
My thinking is along similar lines but I also think OB was worried about what Clowney would be like in the locker room if he made him play. Difference is that lots of rumors say Clowney was not well liked particularly by Watt so I don't think he could have poisoned the well all that much. Plus I think OB is actually a little to soft hearted when dealing with players. Yes he has a temper and yes he blows up but I still think he has that college mindset of help these kids along. Thing is these aren't kids and you have to think of the team first. Me, I would have ran Clowney into the ground like a rental car and let him try and get his own deal next year. If his leg blows out to bad for him and if he sits then you fine him, don't pay his salary and really you are no worse off than you would be anyway plus you send the message that you don't blink when players are being unreasonable.

Same with the Hopkins deal even if he did sit out you aren't hurting the team any more than if you trade him for peanuts because either way you don't have him on the field and this way at least you don't look stupid. Hopkins deal was team friendly in the current market but when he signed on the dotted line it was a very good deal and its not the Texans fault the price tag made a huge jump. Lot of other teams wouldn't look favorably at a vet player trying to get a new deal with 3 years left on his current one.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This should have been the choice, IMO. Then afterwards tell Clowney it was a business decision in the best interest of the team. Clowney made his choice to come in and sign when he saw fit that it was in his best interest. Then he chose not to sign because OB showed his hand to soon. OB is who the Texans have and it sure as hell isn't enjoyable. OB's history, as short as it may be in calling the shots in trades, has not been good. If he were to trade Watson, I have zero confidence that he would find someone that would outperform what Watson has done.
Here is mistake you and others are making. we must consider how the team would do if Watson gone and we get three possibly four starters For him. You cannot look only at who the replacement quarterback would be but rather the entire package.
 
Here is mistake you and others are making. we must consider how the team would do if Watson gone and we get three possibly four starters For him. You cannot look only at who the replacement quarterback would be but rather the entire package.
You're not wrong but how useful would those starters be without a good QB? You look at the last 10 year SB winners and, with the possible exception of the Eagles, they all had a high quality QB driving the team. Even a defense built team like the 15 Broncs had Manning who understood his job was to game manage and let the defense rest. The fact is this is now a QB driven league and you almost don't need the whole package team if you have a star QB and good targets for him to throw to. KC didn't have a great team, their defense was only decent at the end of the season and they have never had any kind of running game worth even being called a running game. What they did have was a star QB, great weapons for him to throw to and a coach that was playing to those strengths.

Looking at it more and more its almost like OB is trying to build a team that can win a SB in the early 90s. We use to talk about if RAC was to old school for the modern NFL I'm starting to wonder if OB is as well.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Here is mistake you and others are making. we must consider how the team would do if Watson gone and we get three possibly four starters For him. You cannot look only at who the replacement quarterback would be but rather the entire package.
The mistake you're making is that yes, in the normal way things work that would be something to consider. But this is the OB way.
 
Here is mistake you and others are making. we must consider how the team would do if Watson gone and we get three possibly four starters For him. You cannot look only at who the replacement quarterback would be but rather the entire package.
I think you're missing my point. I have zero confidence in OB orchestrating a trade involving Deshaun Watson that would net the Texans the compensation that he is worth.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

Mangler

Veteran
I think you're missing my point. I have zero confidence in OB orchestrating a trade involving Deshaun Watson that would net the Texans the compensation that he is worth.

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This! O’Brien’s dumbass will get taken to the woodshed if and when he decides to negotiate with teams regarding a Watson trade. Remember when Houston had the #1 defense back in 2016 with Trashweiler at QB? Well, how did that work out for us?

What I’m trying to say is, it won’t matter how great a surrounding cast we get by filling all the holes we have on both sides of the ball (especially on defense) which I don’t have much confidence in O’Brien picking the right players to fill said holes anyway, as O’Brien does NOT have a good track record when it comes to picking CB, WR, OL, or QBs. His vision of the perfect QB is outdated. He will set the franchise back another 5-10 years!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Someone on 790 yesterday made the comment that athletes tend to use song lyrics to get their point across without really addressing the person they’re upset with directly. I follow a lot of athletes on Twitter and I can see that. The guy on 790 went on to joke that teenage girls do the same thing when they’re upset with someone. So yeah, Watson got his feelings hurt and now he’s lashing out on Twitter like a 13 year old girl. Not a good look.
And not what a true leader would do.

You have to question his wisdom when you see a tweet like that.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Not really, Philly is hurting at WR but as has been said this is a deep class and Philly is in a good spot to get their own Hopkins. On top of that they are dealing with the QB trap that they have fallen into with Wentz so I'm not surprised they wouldn't give up a 1st especially if Hopkins did want a new deal. I really think the that is one of the biggest reasons that the offers were so bad if reports are true. Why pay top dollar this year for a WR when you might can draft your own version and get them cheap for 5 years. WR is one of the few positions that really translate well from college to NFL with little adjustment. I think Cards made an offer because they had dreams of a young, hotshot QB throwing to two legendary WRs. It was a pipe dream until OB made their dreams come true.
Exactly

But it usually takes a couple of yrs for a rookie WR to get up to NFL speed.

I'm willing to give Wentz more time because last yr at the end of the yr his WR1 was Greg Ward. In what world would Greg Ward ever be a WR1 and I love Greg Ward. He finally got his shot and performed quite well considering the circumstances.
 
Exactly

But it usually takes a couple of yrs for a rookie WR to get up to NFL speed.

I'm willing to give Wentz more time because last yr at the end of the yr his WR1 was Greg Ward. In what world would Greg Ward ever be a WR1 and I love Greg Ward. He finally got his shot and performed quite well considering the circumstances.
Disagree about a couple of years. Any other position except RB and WR, and MAYBE TE, I would agree with you but their job in college doesn't change much from their job in the NFL. Only thing that really changes is learning a new system and if the system is not to complex or the player not dumb as the day is long then that doesn't take long. You very much can draft an impact making rookie at WR. If the Eagles make the right pick they can draft next years WR1 in this draft.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You're not wrong but how useful would those starters be without a good QB? You look at the last 10 year SB winners and, with the possible exception of the Eagles, they all had a high quality QB driving the team. Even a defense built team like the 15 Broncs had Manning who understood his job was to game manage and let the defense rest. The fact is this is now a QB driven league and you almost don't need the whole package team if you have a star QB and good targets for him to throw to. KC didn't have a great team, their defense was only decent at the end of the season and they have never had any kind of running game worth even being called a running game. What they did have was a star QB, great weapons for him to throw to and a coach that was playing to those strengths.

Looking at it more and more its almost like OB is trying to build a team that can win a SB in the early 90s. We use to talk about if RAC was to old school for the modern NFL I'm starting to wonder if OB is as well.
This depends on how good you think DW4 is and will become. If you dont think you can win a championship with him you move on and take a bounty of picks. Then you start looking for your guy to be the next franchise QB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This! O’Brien’s dumbass will get taken to the woodshed if and when he decides to negotiate with teams regarding a Watson trade. Remember when Houston had the #1 defense back in 2016 with Trashweiler at QB? Well, how did that work out for us?

What I’m trying to say is, it won’t matter how great a surrounding cast we get by filling all the holes we have on both sides of the ball (especially on defense) which I don’t have much confidence in O’Brien picking the right players to fill said holes anyway, as O’Brien does NOT have a good track record when it comes to picking CB, WR, OL, or QBs. His vision of the perfect QB is outdated. He will set the franchise back another 5-10 years!
You would hope to find a QB better than Os.

We dont know how BOB would do at filling the holes because this is his 1st yr to make the final call on players. (I will admit that the 1st run through FA isn't very promising)

You know who would be a good fit in BOB's offense? Justin Herbert. Big guy/Great arm/Very Accurate/Surprisingly mobile/Honor Roll smart.

I think Herbert will be a star in the NFL if he can stay healthy. Best QB in the draft behind Burrow and the difference between them isn't that great. IMHO

They do have different talents though, the most important thing that both of them have is outstanding accuracy.
 
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This depends on how good you think DW4 is and will become. If you dont think you can win a championship with him you move on and take a bounty of picks. Then you start looking for your guy to be the next franchise QB.
This is a fair concern.
You answered your own question. If it was a GM with a history of wheeling and dealing then I would say ok if we don't think this working then go get us what you think will. I've been willing to give OB the GM the benefit of the doubt because even his "bad" trades made some kind of sense. Clowney was a bad situation all the way around and when OB became GM and had to deal with it he already had two strikes against him in that Clowney thought he was worth Mack money and Texans had given him all the power. For those reasons I don't disagree with what they got for him though I do disagree with trading him as I've said before.

Tunsil I liked the trade, yes it was expensive and yes everyone said we overpaid but they always say that about the first guy that costs the farm until it becomes standard. People go on about how we should have gotten a new deal but no one has an answer of how to do that if the player and his agent say we're not signing anything until the new CBA is done and we can reset the market. Didn't help that Texans were desperate for LT and EVERYBODY knew it.

The Hopkins deal though was just bad. I don't care if he wanted a new deal, I don't care if he threaten to sit and I don't even care if there were personal issues between OB and Hopkins. The only excuse I would accept is if the McNair's came to OB and said either you get rid of him or we're getting rid of you like I think they did with DB. Since there is no evidence of that I have to assume this was on OB and it was just bad. So what if the Cards made the best offer, doesn't mean you have to take it. Wait another year and even if Hopkins sits you haven't really lost anything because either way you won't have him and next year when the colleges aren't farting out WRs left and right you can most likely get a much better deal. Maybe even better than if Hopkins didn't sit because now you can say he's rested for a year.

If the players have an issue for it you simply say "Guys we don't have the money to give him the big raise he wants because we budgeted around the idea of him playing for what he agreed to in the last contract. If we give him his raise then we are going to have to either low ball someone else or flat out cut them. Deshaun if you want to wait another year or so or maybe even take less money then we can find the money to pay him more so you still have your favorite target but as things stand it can't be done."
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You answered your own question. If it was a GM with a history of wheeling and dealing then I would say ok if we don't think this working then go get us what you think will. I've been willing to give OB the GM the benefit of the doubt because even his "bad" trades made some kind of sense. Clowney was a bad situation all the way around and when OB became GM and had to deal with it he already had two strikes against him in that Clowney thought he was worth Mack money and Texans had given him all the power. For those reasons I don't disagree with what they got for him though I do disagree with trading him as I've said before.

Tunsil I liked the trade, yes it was expensive and yes everyone said we overpaid but they always say that about the first guy that costs the farm until it becomes standard. People go on about how we should have gotten a new deal but no one has an answer of how to do that if the player and his agent say we're not signing anything until the new CBA is done and we can reset the market. Didn't help that Texans were desperate for LT and EVERYBODY knew it.

The Hopkins deal though was just bad. I don't care if he wanted a new deal, I don't care if he threaten to sit and I don't even care if there were personal issues between OB and Hopkins. The only excuse I would accept is if the McNair's came to OB and said either you get rid of him or we're getting rid of you like I think they did with DB. Since there is no evidence of that I have to assume this was on OB and it was just bad. So what if the Cards made the best offer, doesn't mean you have to take it. Wait another year and even if Hopkins sits you haven't really lost anything because either way you won't have him and next year when the colleges aren't farting out WRs left and right you can most likely get a much better deal. Maybe even better than if Hopkins didn't sit because now you can say he's rested for a year.

If the players have an issue for it you simply say "Guys we don't have the money to give him the big raise he wants because we budgeted around the idea of him playing for what he agreed to in the last contract. If we give him his raise then we are going to have to either low ball someone else or flat out cut them. Deshaun if you want to wait another year or so or maybe even take less money then we can find the money to pay him more so you still have your favorite target but as things stand it can't be done."
This is where I'm at on this deal.

Like I asked before if they got a 1st (32) instead of a 2nd (40) what would you have thought of the deal? This is mainly a matter of perception and right now we dont have a clue as to what kind of drafter BOB will be.

This really comes down to the McNair's have more faith in BOB than the fans do. Ever ask yourself why this could be? (Not You)
 
This is where I'm at on this deal.

Like I asked before if they got a 1st (32) instead of a 2nd (40) what would you have thought of the deal? This is mainly a matter of perception and right now we dont have a clue as to what kind of drafter BOB will be.
No I wouldn't have been happy with 32. To some on here they seem to think all 1st round picks are created equal, they're not. For Hopkins I would have wanted at least top 15 and in any other year top 10. Just like our two 1st most likely in the 20s was what it took to equal what Miami used (13) to draft Tunsil.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
If Watson is not here for several more years, it will be because the organization does not want him here.
It means Watson's under contract and the front office holds the cards, which includes a franchise tag and now a team-favorable CBA. If Watson is not a Texan within the next three years, it's O'Brien's decision, not Watson's.

And unfortunately that's a real risk because O'Brien is the GM version of the Joker shooting hostages to get what he wants.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
  1. Ehh that’s just how these young guys are. David Johnson did the same thing not even a week ago with a Jayz line. Leave it cryptic on purpose; people will read into it what they feel...easiest way to reveal the haters and those trying to stir up ****.....like this very thread is doing.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No I wouldn't have been happy with 32. To some on here they seem to think all 1st round picks are created equal, they're not. For Hopkins I would have wanted at least top 15 and in any other year top 10. Just like our two 1st most likely in the 20s was what it took to equal what Miami used (13) to draft Tunsil.
A man who gets it.

All 1sts aren't created equal.

The thing is Nuk doesn't have top 15 value do to his contract wishes/deep WR draft. So the correct thing to do was hold onto Nuk for another yr unless he was a clubhouse cancer. (Which could be true since he doesn't like to practice and BOB's trying to build a new culture around HIS team, not saying this is the right way o look at this.)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It means Watson's under contract and the front office holds the cards, which includes a franchise tag and now a team-favorable CBA. If Watson is not a Texan within the next three years, it's O'Brien's decision, not Watson's.

And unfortunately that's a real risk because O'Brien is the GM version of the Joker shooting hostages to get what he wants.
Love the Joker reference.

Depends on what you think of DW4.

We should know more in the next yr or 2.
 


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