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Inside Info: 2020 to be Watson’s last season as a Texan!

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Madden 20 refused this trade, so obviously that makes it very viable and likely with O'Brien.

Not gonna' lie, I'm hoping it happens for Deshaun's sake. O'Brien is just going to Carr the kid's career and it'll be too late if the Texans use up the next four seasons of his potential.

The state of my Texans fandom at this point:

View attachment 5800
You can hire a new HC, but he will have to get DW4 to change the way he's played his entire life and I dont see this changing. Best case scenario Steve Young/Worst case scenario Scott Mitchell
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
or Obrien would be in a different mindset than desperately needing left tackle to keep his QB alive with almost not worthy option than Tunsil. Or feeling he needed to move a WR that I personally love for what he could get. I am not arguing those players as we have bazillian posts already. If he moves quietly and he does do that, he could need a trailer to load up the riches. It tend to focus on the first few hours of a move and then feel silly to realize more to a story than I thought. As I've posted in my off season thread, many things have to align to move Watson for most value but things seem to be moving in that direction as I posted there recently with the 'skins and Bengals. Minor moves for sure like Washington trading for a vet QB recently. It is going to be an off season to watch even if I shake my head at times. :wacko:
Was alcohol involved with this post?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yes, in theory it would, but so far with Tunsil, Clowney, and Hopkins OB has shown he's way over his head when it comes to trading players. You also seem to value draft picks way more than he has shown to.
It appears so but as I posted Watson is different situation than either of those guys. Until Watson says something different he is content to play here. He knows he's going to get huge increase and Nuk hoping he would. Many of us think Tunsil was expensive but glad he's here with limited options existing at time. Also some of us were okay with moving Clowney and Hopkins judge not okay with what we received. And that is the concern I have with trading Watson. O'Brien felt that we had to move Clowney and Hopkins. I don't perceive that he feels like he has to do the same with number 4.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
It appears so but as I posted Watson is different situation than either of those guys. Until Watson says something different he is content to play here. He knows he's going to get huge increase and Nuk hoping he would. Many of us think Tunsil was expensive but glad he's here with limited options existing at time. Also some of us were okay with moving Clowney and Hopkins judge not okay with what we received. And that is the concern I have with trading Watson. O'Brien felt that we had to move Clowney and Hopkins. I don't perceive that he feels like he has to do the same with number 4.
Yeah I’m not that optimistic with OB. All it takes is for Watson to get him upset and OB will trade him for peanuts. He’s a guppie GM while the rest of the gms of the NFL are sharks.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I’m guessing Watson is going to clean that up soon. He’ll Tweet or say something to the affect he’s firmly behind O’Brien, he loves playing for him and that will be affirmation to some fans that O’Brien knows what he’s doing and in no way has he lost the support of the team.
He said that after the KC debacle. No reason to say it again because some talking heads want to dig too deep into a tweet.

Best for him to just leave it alone & not give them something else to yak about
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I’m guessing Watson is going to clean that up soon. He’ll Tweet or say something to the affect he’s firmly behind O’Brien, he loves playing for him and that will be affirmation to some fans that O’Brien knows what he’s doing and in no way has he lost the support of the team. And I’ll call BS to all of it. There’s nothing Watson can say now to make me believe he’s not hurting by what his GM did.
Just b/c YOU can’t conceive of it doesn’t mean that it can’t be true. Him hurting b/c he no longer has a great WR to throw to and him still believing in the direction of the team aren't mutually exclusive; They can both be true. This is now his team. you guys are just interjecting your feelings and it really has nothing to do with you. “If I were DW4, this is how I'd feel". We lost Reader for basically nothing & As much as Watt championed Reader, i'm sure he was "hurting" just as much by his departure too. Didn't hear a peep out of most of ya'll about that though.

DW4 could be hot as hell about the move, but at the end of the day he also has to balance that knowing that the move was most likely made in his best interest for the long run...his long term business interests which is what this was really about....business. Seems like the players understand that..... the fans don't.

Truth be told, BoB as GM doesn't even matter in all this. As it is, even if we'd have gotten the compensation that everyone thinks we should've got, guess what? DW4 is still "hurting" and is still down a great target that was likely still going to have to be replaced with someone in the draft.& there'd still be no guarantee that we use any of that high draft capital on a WR;.....Especially when you consider how deep this draft is a WR.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Him hurting b/c he no longer has a great WR to throw to and him still believing in the direction of the team aren't mutually exclusive;
Still, he’s got great report with Stills, Fuller, & Coutee. True, they ain’t Hop, but this is business & he knows it. I bet he didn’t cry himself to sleep when his friends moved on from Clemson, or he had to leave them behind (a year early)

He’s probably more used to this than we are.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Still, he’s got great report with Stills, Fuller, & Coutee. True, they ain’t Hop, but this is business & he knows it. I bet he didn’t cry himself to sleep when his friends moved on from Clemson, or he had to leave them behind (a year early)

He’s probably more used to this than we are.
Exactly. We're talking about a guy who has issues giving up on plays..which says that he believes he is the difference. Another aspect in all this is that i think alot of us are forgetting is that DW4 is young. He's probably closer to alot of these younger guys getting ready to enter the league than he is to Nuk who is on the back end of his prime. He has in all likelihood been to camp and/or played with a few of them.
 

banned1976

American
He said that after the KC debacle. No reason to say it again because some talking heads want to dig too deep into a tweet.

Best for him to just leave it alone & not give them something else to yak about
I don’t think his tweet just a few days after Hopkins was traded was an accident or a coincidence. I don’t know how anyone could that. The lyrics he tweeted fit. As for the talking heads, the biggest sporting news in a world without much of it right now is the Hopkins trade. Naturally they’re (and us) going to talk about it and the fallout from it. But I don’t think they’re reaching for a talking point.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
While there now appears to be some--undercurrents for lack of better term that Watson could be gone, there is zero of O'Brien leaving, NADA. I get that you and others including me want him gone, the only way to proceed logically past this is to talk about what could not should happen. Wasn't that long ago I posted about trading Hop and Watson and we all know how that was responded to; yet #10 is gone and more are hinting at possibility #4 could also. Has little to do with what I want but what is going on.
I too made several trade ideas involving Clowney, Hopkins and Watson but at no time did I predict what GM Knucklehead brought home for Clowney and Hopkins. I'd be terrified if OB got to deal Watson by himself based on his current track record.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I too made several trade ideas involving Clowney, Hopkins and Watson but at no time did I predict what GM Knucklehead brought home for Clowney and Hopkins. I'd be terrified if OB got to deal Watson by himself based on his current track record.
Unfortunately we tend to overrate the worth of Texans players vs what the NFL GM's are willing to pay.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Unfortunately we tend to overrate the worth of Texans players vs what the NFL GM's are willing to pay.
I think it has less to do with the players worth and more to do with how they’ve operated in the past couple seasons. I heard that KC offered the same package for Clowney as they did Clark but Gaine waited too long to get back to them. When he finally did they had moved on to Seattle for Clark. I have a suspicion that OB didn’t want to trade Hop to a team in the AFC and that’s why we ended up dealing with AZ. The Raiders have a boat load of picks, a need at WR and Gruden loves veteran players. I’d be shocked if we couldn’t have gotten a better deal from them. It also doesn’t help that OB decides he HAS to trade Hop in a year when the WR class is the deepest it’s ever been.

If he could’ve held his water with Hop I firmly believe he could’ve gotten a better deal next off season as it’s highly unlikely the WR class would’ve match this years. There was no reason Hop HAD to be traded now. The new CBA makes player holdouts highly unlikely.

The thing that is starting to scare me to death about OB is his seeming lack of interpersonal skills, particularly as it relates to players. You’re limited in your ability to acquire talent in the NFL, and it takes talent to win. If he can’t figure out how to deal with guys that don’t fit his ideal image of what a player/teammate should be we are truly screwed as your reducing the available pool of talent
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Still, he’s got great report with Stills, Fuller, & Coutee. True, they ain’t Hop, but this is business & he knows it. I bet he didn’t cry himself to sleep when his friends moved on from Clemson, or he had to leave them behind (a year early)

He’s probably more used to this than we are.
Report or rapport? The world wants to know...:chef::kitten:
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately we tend to overrate the worth of Texans players vs what the NFL GM's are willing to pay.
Personally, I think OB far under-graded the talent he was willing to move and far exceeded the value of those he signed.

I'd like to get your grade for the following 3 moves:

1. Clowney to Seattle

2. Tunsil to Texans

3. Hopkins to Cardinals
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
I don’t think his tweet just a few days after Hopkins was traded was an accident or a coincidence. I don’t know how anyone could that. The lyrics he tweeted fit. As for the talking heads, the biggest sporting news in a world without much of it right now is the Hopkins trade. Naturally they’re (and us) going to talk about it and the fallout from it. But I don’t think they’re reaching for a talking point.
Has anyone thought that Watson and/or his manager decided to use the Hopkins trade to their benefit in contract extension discussions? By dangling the possibility that he is entertaining the thought of moving on to another team, it might force a desperate team (Texans) to hurry up and get a sizable deal done.

Best case scenario Watson gets paid. Worst case scenario, other teams start to inquire about his "trade availability".
 

RGV82

Random guy
Not going to put his name out there, but this person works very closely with pretty much all the big name Texans’ players, and a few Astros. He is also now the Texans Organization go-to media guy, doing all the videos and photography. He may be on his way to officially getting the Astros gig as well. Great guy, and does awesome work!

Anyway, he just made a random post on Facebook that reads:

“My prediction, Deshaun Watson will not re-sign with the Texans.”

A bunch of people replied with the typical “I don’t blame him, it’s because of O’Brien” and others just hoping Watson reconsiders and stays in Houston. I DM’d him asking him if the post was based off inside info or just a gut feeling, and he said “a little bit of both.” He really didn’t want to say much, so who knows? He did call the Clowney trade, the Honey badger walking, and the rift between Hopkins and O’Brien before they went public, so maybe this rumor is also true?
No source, no validity. In the world of sports, we need a source. Not to downplay your post, but his quote just seems like an opinion. I would like to know what his "prediction" is based on. What facts or ties to Watson does he have that would validate a prediction like this? You say he "works closely" with players, what type of work does he do with them?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I think it has less to do with the players worth and more to do with how they’ve operated in the past couple seasons. I heard that KC offered the same package for Clowney as they did Clark but Gaine waited too long to get back to them. When he finally did they had moved on to Seattle for Clark. I have a suspicion that OB didn’t want to trade Hop to a team in the AFC and that’s why we ended up dealing with AZ. The Raiders have a boat load of picks, a need at WR and Gruden loves veteran players. I’d be shocked if we couldn’t have gotten a better deal from them. It also doesn’t help that OB decides he HAS to trade Hop in a year when the WR class is the deepest it’s ever been.

If he could’ve held his water with Hop I firmly believe he could’ve gotten a better deal next off season as it’s highly unlikely the WR class would’ve match this years. There was no reason Hop HAD to be traded now. The new CBA makes player holdouts highly unlikely.

The thing that is starting to scare me to death about OB is his seeming lack of interpersonal skills, particularly as it relates to players. You’re limited in your ability to acquire talent in the NFL, and it takes talent to win. If he can’t figure out how to deal with guys that don’t fit his ideal image of what a player/teammate should be we are truly screwed as your reducing the available pool of talent

Used to be the owners and HC could call the players’ bluff and they’d eventually show up just in time for game checks. I think now, players have figured out how to get what they want from organizations and it puts HC’s in bad situations.

You can either become such a disruption/distraction that you force the team to deal u...(Antonio brown) or you holdout into the season and basically do the same thing but in a different way where your absence on the team clearly shows how much they need u and it effectively torpedoes the season. Word is this is the route Nuk was about to take if he didn’t get the pay raise he wanted. What it comes down to is Players are no longer afraid of missing game checks. I can only remember 1 holdout in the 90’s that went into the season..Emmitt Smith in 93. Over the past year however we’ve seen 4 guys now (Bell, Gordon, Trent Williams and Duane Brown) forfeit game checks in an effort to force the organization and HC to eventually give them what they want.

Right now you’re seeing it most with under appreciated and devalued positions like RB and o-line. Pretty soon though I think you’re going to be seeing it more with WR’s and LB’s.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Used to be the owners and HC could call the players’ bluff and they’d eventually show up just in time for game checks. I think now, players have figured out how to get what they want from organizations and it puts HC’s in bad situations.

You can either become such a disruption/distraction that you force the team to deal u...(Antonio brown) or you holdout into the season and basically do the same thing but in a different way where your absence on the team clearly shows how much they need u and it effectively torpedoes the season. Word is this is the route Nuk was about to take if he didn’t get the pay raise he wanted. What it comes down to is Players are no longer afraid of missing game checks. I can only remember 1 holdout in the 90’s that went into the season..Emmitt Smith in 93. Over the past year however we’ve seen 4 guys now (Bell, Gordon, Trent Williams and Duane Brown) forfeit game checks in an effort to force the organization and HC to eventually give them what they want.

Right now you’re seeing it most with under appreciated and devalued positions like RB and o-line. Pretty soon though I think you’re going to be seeing it more with WR’s and LB’s.
The new CBA makes holdouts much more punitive than the previous one:

A "player playing under a contract signed as a veteran who fails to report to his club's preseason training camp on time or reports and leaves the club for more than five days" cannot have his fines waived by the team upon return and will not earn an accrued season for that season. Harsh, but note that it specifies "a contract signed as a veteran." So it seems as if the new anti-holdout rules won't apply to players holding out for more at the end of their rookie contracts, as Ezekiel Elliott did last year, for example.


Here’s a second article discussing player holdouts



According to all the reports on the radio I’ve heard they’re saying that holdouts aren’t likely.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Has anyone thought that Watson and/or his manager decided to use the Hopkins trade to their benefit in contract extension discussions? By dangling the possibility that he is entertaining the thought of moving on to another team, it might force a desperate team (Texans) to hurry up and get a sizable deal done.

Best case scenario Watson gets paid. Worst case scenario, other teams start to inquire about his "trade availability".
If you were dealing with a normal front office, then maybe. But this FO is far from normal. I think it’s far more likely he wants outta here.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The new CBA makes holdouts much more punitive than the previous one:

A "player playing under a contract signed as a veteran who fails to report to his club's preseason training camp on time or reports and leaves the club for more than five days" cannot have his fines waived by the team upon return and will not earn an accrued season for that season. Harsh, but note that it specifies "a contract signed as a veteran." So it seems as if the new anti-holdout rules won't apply to players holding out for more at the end of their rookie contracts, as Ezekiel Elliott did last year, for example.


Here’s a second article discussing player holdouts



According to all the reports on the radio I’ve heard they’re saying that holdouts aren’t likely.
aren’t likely but can still happen. Furthermore it still doesn’t take away option 2 which is they report and everything, but make things so miserable that it forces the hand of the HC and FO to move them in less than optimal circumstances for the team.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Has anyone thought that Watson and/or his manager decided to use the Hopkins trade to their benefit in contract extension discussions? By dangling the possibility that he is entertaining the thought of moving on to another team, it might force a desperate team (Texans) to hurry up and get a sizable deal done.

Best case scenario Watson gets paid. Worst case scenario, other teams start to inquire about his "trade availability".
I would bet that BoB/DW4 and probably Cal have had a discussion about this trade on some level and I bet it Still didn’t make DW4 feel all that great, but he now understands now probably more than ever that this is a business.

His drake tweet really says, “yeah there’s more to it than what’s being reported, I see both sides...still don’t like it though...”
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
aren’t likely but can still happen. Furthermore it still doesn’t take away option 2 which is they report and everything, but make things so miserable that it forces the hand of the HC and FO to move them in less than optimal circumstances for the team.
Hopkins doesn’t strike me as that type of player, and I can’t see why he’d change. They may have butted heads a bit but it’s not like there were bad feelings, at least not from Hopkins side. I would think someone with better interpersonal skills could work something out with Hop where he’d play one more season and they’d workout a trade the following season
 

CPTTexan

Waterboy
If it came down to DW4 or BoB, I have to believe Cal makes the right call there and ships BoB outta here. Matter fact, if things don't go right this year, i'm pretty sure BoB's outta here after this year.
Let's hope you'd be correct in that scenario. The problem at this point, is that O'Brien (by owner proxy) has already made moves that screw over anyone that would take this team over. Instead of being left a team with some really great pieces to build around, they'd be given a team that has been systematically dismantled piece by piece.
 

revan

Waterboy
Just b/c YOU can’t conceive of it doesn’t mean that it can’t be true. Him hurting b/c he no longer has a great WR to throw to and him still believing in the direction of the team aren't mutually exclusive; They can both be true. This is now his team. you guys are just interjecting your feelings and it really has nothing to do with you. “If I were DW4, this is how I'd feel". We lost Reader for basically nothing & As much as Watt championed Reader, i'm sure he was "hurting" just as much by his departure too. Didn't hear a peep out of most of ya'll about that though.

DW4 could be hot as hell about the move, but at the end of the day he also has to balance that knowing that the move was most likely made in his best interest for the long run...his long term business interests which is what this was really about....business. Seems like the players understand that..... the fans don't.

Truth be told, BoB as GM doesn't even matter in all this. As it is, even if we'd have gotten the compensation that everyone thinks we should've got, guess what? DW4 is still "hurting" and is still down a great target that was likely still going to have to be replaced with someone in the draft.& there'd still be no guarantee that we use any of that high draft capital on a WR;.....Especially when you consider how deep this draft is a WR.
Been out of the message boards for quite a while. But since the first years I have always seen on these message boards how wr/qb/te or any position that we had a need for people would say "the draft is deep at...", yet we still suck and dont pick the logical choices. Im tired man.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Been out of the message boards for quite a while. But since the first years I have always seen on these message boards how wr/qb/te or any position that we had a need for people would say "the draft is deep at...", yet we still suck and dont pick the logical choices. Im tired man.
Yeah we gave a proven wr away only to take a shot at one in the draft. Argh.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Hopkins doesn’t strike me as that type of player, and I can’t see why he’d change. They may have butted heads a bit but it’s not like there were bad feelings, at least not from Hopkins side. I would think someone with better interpersonal skills could work something out with Hop where he’d play one more season and they’d workout a trade the following season
probably..but what if Nuk gets seriously injured that season? Then you have the Gurley situation. Where you're trying to move a guy coming off injury who may or may not be what he once was..You're not getting any real takers....& of course once other teams find out that he also wants to be paid more..you probably aren't getting the compensation everyone thinks you should get back for him in that scenario either.

The Clowney trade was lambasted around these parts b/c we didn't trade him early enough in the process..& so they say we should've gotten more........The Nuk trade people are lambasting b/c the trade was too soon....and we should've gotten more. Well regardless of what the talking heads have said, the league FO's in both instances have disagreed. The Eagles turned down a trade for Nuk & here Clowney is about to sign for significantly less than what he thought he was worth & if he doesn't resign with the seahawks, they will only get a 3rd round pick....exactly what we got back for him.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Personally, I think OB far under-graded the talent he was willing to move and far exceeded the value of those he signed.

I'd like to get your grade for the following 3 moves:

1. Clowney to Seattle

2. Tunsil to Texans

3. Hopkins to Cardinals
I realize you're not asking me, but if you were, I'd say I didn't like any of those trades.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Personally, I think OB far under-graded the talent he was willing to move and far exceeded the value of those he signed.

I'd like to get your grade for the following 3 moves:

1. Clowney to Seattle

2. Tunsil to Texans

3. Hopkins to Cardinals
Clowney'- C, he played worse than I thought he would last yr, his body is breaking down. Should have been traded a yr earlier.

Tunsil- B+, would have been ab A if he had come with a new deal in place.

Hopkins- incomplete
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Been out of the message boards for quite a while. But since the first years I have always seen on these message boards how wr/qb/te or any position that we had a need for people would say "the draft is deep at...", yet we still suck and dont pick the logical choices. Im tired man.
I hear ya...but i think you've mostly heard that from the draftniks. This year, its really the case though & i would be really surprised if at some point with 1 of our early picks we don't snatch up a really good prospect at WR. The only other time i remember seeing a draft this deep at 1 position was the year we took Brown at LT...
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Noone's really talking about it anymore except us locals...that includes the talking heads here. Nationally, its all about Brady..that's all i ever hear about & see.
Lol

Then why would the Texans do it?
Counter-question: Have you seen how the Texans operate? We can't really overstate how absurd it was for O'Brien to dump DeAndre Hopkins, even if it meant saving money down the road. You simply don't go out of your way to remove a 27-year-old four-time Pro Bowl wideout from your lineup. Paying David Johnson and Randall Cobb for multiple seasons as the "replacement" offensive weapons sounds more like a tanking strategy than anything else. (And that says nothing of the Texans' polarizing moves of 2019, like trading a mid-round pick for Duke Johnson, or accepting one for Jadeveon Clowney.) Either O'Brien is legitimately way in over his head, he's deliberately masterminding a tank job a la Jon Gruden pre-Las Vegas, or both. We can call a Deshaun Watson trade unlikely, but how in the world could we rule it out entirely at this point?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Hopkins doesn’t strike me as that type of player, and I can’t see why he’d change. They may have butted heads a bit but it’s not like there were bad feelings, at least not from Hopkins side. I would think someone with better interpersonal skills could work something out with Hop where he’d play one more season and they’d workout a trade the following season
[/QUOTE
I think it has less to do with the players worth and more to do with how they’ve operated in the past couple seasons. I heard that KC offered the same package for Clowney as they did Clark but Gaine waited too long to get back to them. When he finally did they had moved on to Seattle for Clark. I have a suspicion that OB didn’t want to trade Hop to a team in the AFC and that’s why we ended up dealing with AZ. The Raiders have a boat load of picks, a need at WR and Gruden loves veteran players. I’d be shocked if we couldn’t have gotten a better deal from them. It also doesn’t help that OB decides he HAS to trade Hop in a year when the WR class is the deepest it’s ever been.

If he could’ve held his water with Hop I firmly believe he could’ve gotten a better deal next off season as it’s highly unlikely the WR class would’ve match this years. There was no reason Hop HAD to be traded now. The new CBA makes player holdouts highly unlikely.

The thing that is starting to scare me to death about OB is his seeming lack of interpersonal skills, particularly as it relates to players. You’re limited in your ability to acquire talent in the NFL, and it takes talent to win. If he can’t figure out how to deal with guys that don’t fit his ideal image of what a player/teammate should be we are truly screwed as your reducing the available pool of talent
Would you pay a guy big money that rarely practices

I hear ya...but i think you've mostly heard that from the draftniks. This year, its really the case though & i would be really surprised if at some point with 1 of our early picks we don't snatch up a really good prospect at WR. The only other time i remember seeing a draft this deep at 1 position was the year we took Brown at LT...
The Jerry Rice yr was a deep yr too.

I think eventually WRs will become fungicible like RBS, with the way the passing game starting in highschool and working its way forward is headed.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Lol

Then why would the Texans do it?
Counter-question: Have you seen how the Texans operate? We can't really overstate how absurd it was for O'Brien to dump DeAndre Hopkins, even if it meant saving money down the road. You simply don't go out of your way to remove a 27-year-old four-time Pro Bowl wideout from your lineup. Paying David Johnson and Randall Cobb for multiple seasons as the "replacement" offensive weapons sounds more like a tanking strategy than anything else. (And that says nothing of the Texans' polarizing moves of 2019, like trading a mid-round pick for Duke Johnson, or accepting one for Jadeveon Clowney.) Either O'Brien is legitimately way in over his head, he's deliberately masterminding a tank job a la Jon Gruden pre-Las Vegas, or both. We can call a Deshaun Watson trade unlikely, but how in the world could we rule it out entirely at this point?
That post was in response to the Nuk trade..I've effectively turned off sports radio..but the little i do hear, all i hear about is Brady and his transition to TB under Arians. Even here locally they are spending a disproportionate amount of time talking about Brady...tired of it.

2nd, i don't think it was "going out of his way"...As has been noted by several sources now, they've been shopping Nuk for a while & weren't able to find any takers for what we think he's worth & wanted. I also think you're also underplaying the money angle in all this. If what's reported is true, the extension he wanted is not small change.

& ok, that's your opinion on what you think David Johnson and Randall Cobb can bring...but there are at least a few who feel that Johnson and Cobb aren't bad additions and will bring much more than what you and other think...Its pretty clear Johnson was phased out of Kingsbury's offense last year..much the same way Gurley was in LA...most of that had to do with the contract, not necessarily what he was capable of on the field.

I just think you an others here are way overvaluing draft picks and the players that have since been lost.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
That post was in response to the Nuk trade..I've effectively turned off sports radio..but the little i do hear, all i hear about is Brady and his transition to TB under Arians. Even here locally they are spending a disproportionate amount of time talking about Brady...tired of it.

2nd, i don't think it was "going out of his way"...As has been noted by several sources now, they've been shopping Nuk for a while & weren't able to find any takers for what we think he's worth & wanted. I also think you're also underplaying the money angle in all this. If what's reported is true, the extension he wanted is not small change.

& ok, that's your opinion on what you think David Johnson and Randall Cobb can bring...but there are at least a few who feel that Johnson and Cobb aren't bad additions and will bring much more than what you and other think...Its pretty clear Johnson was phased out of Kingsbury's offense last year..much the same way Gurley was in LA...most of that had to do with the contract, not necessarily what he was capable of on the field.

I just think you an others here are way overvaluing draft picks and the players that have since been lost.
MIN- 2019 Stefon Diggs / G: 15 / R: 63 / Y: 1,130 / TD: 6
HOU- 2019 DeAndre Hopkins / G: 15 / R: 104 / Y: 1,165 / TD: 7

The Vikings get from the Bills:
2020 RD1-22-022 / RD5-22-168 / RD6-22-202 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Bills get from the Vikings:
WR- Stefon Diggs (14.5M 2020 Cap) / RD7-25-240


The Texans get from the Cardinals:
RB- David Johnson (11.2M 2020 Cap) / 2020 RD2-05-040 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Cardinals get from the Texans:
WR- DeAndre Hopkins (12.5M 2020 Cap Non-Guaranteed / 2020 RD4-25-131

Again, explain how the Vikings did so well moving Diggs and the Texans are left with egg on their face moving Hopkins.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
MIN- 2019 Stefon Diggs / G: 15 / R: 63 / Y: 1,130 / TD: 6
HOU- 2019 DeAndre Hopkins / G: 15 / R: 104 / Y: 1,165 / TD: 7

The Vikings get from the Bills:
2020 RD1-22-022 / RD5-22-168 / RD6-22-202 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Bills get from the Vikings:
WR- Stefon Diggs (14.5M 2020 Cap) / RD7-25-240


The Texans get from the Cardinals:
RB- David Johnson (11.2M 2020 Cap) / 2020 RD2-05-040 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Cardinals get from the Texans:
WR- DeAndre Hopkins (12.5M 2020 Cap Non-Guaranteed / 2020 RD4-25-131

Again, explain how the Vikings did so well moving Diggs and the Texans are left with egg on their face moving Hopkins.
You guys are overvaluing that haul & the value of picks in general.

Here is a list of Minnesota's last 9 1st round draft picks...i'm saying 9 b/c they didn't have 1 in 2017.

2013
23​
DTFlorida
25​
Xavier RhodesCBFlorida State
[27]
29​
Cordarrelle PattersonWRTennessee
[28]
2014
9​
Anthony BarrLBUCLA
[29]
32​
Teddy BridgewaterQBLouisville
[30]
2015
11​
Trae WaynesCBMichigan State
2016
23​
Laquon TreadwellWROle Miss
2017
—​
No pick
[31]
2018
30​
Mike HughesCBCentral Florida
2019
18​
Garrett BradburyCNC State

Here is Buffalo's last 9...no pick in 2015.



There's what 4 guys between both of these lists that have proven to actually have been worthy of their selection in the 1st. I'll give you 5 if you want to include Josh Allen. The rest? you can divy up into several categories of blah, average, garbage and too young to really know anything just yet. Mind you there are a fair number of high 1st round picks too.

Yes David Johnson has an ugly cap hit & they probably could've gotten more, but he is not without value in the trade. So just based on the last season he was really used like he was capable of (2018) instead of being phased out of the offense, how many of these 1st rounders would you put him as better than RIGHT NOW?
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Would you pay a guy big money that rarely practices



The Jerry Rice yr was a deep yr too.

I think eventually WRs will become fungicible like RBS, with the way the passing game starting in highschool and working its way forward is headed.
You could definitely be right.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
MIN- 2019 Stefon Diggs / G: 15 / R: 63 / Y: 1,130 / TD: 6
HOU- 2019 DeAndre Hopkins / G: 15 / R: 104 / Y: 1,165 / TD: 7

The Vikings get from the Bills:
2020 RD1-22-022 / RD5-22-168 / RD6-22-202 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Bills get from the Vikings:
WR- Stefon Diggs (14.5M 2020 Cap) / RD7-25-240


The Texans get from the Cardinals:
RB- David Johnson (11.2M 2020 Cap) / 2020 RD2-05-040 / 2021 RD4-??-???

The Cardinals get from the Texans:
WR- DeAndre Hopkins (12.5M 2020 Cap Non-Guaranteed / 2020 RD4-25-131

Again, explain how the Vikings did so well moving Diggs and the Texans are left with egg on their face moving Hopkins.
Contracts my friend.

4 teams contacted them and the Cards offer was the best.

Contracts/Contracts/Contracts
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
probably..but what if Nuk gets seriously injured that season? Then you have the Gurley situation. Where you're trying to move a guy coming off injury who may or may not be what he once was..You're not getting any real takers....& of course once other teams find out that he also wants to be paid more..you probably aren't getting the compensation everyone thinks you should get back for him in that scenario either.

The Clowney trade was lambasted around these parts b/c we didn't trade him early enough in the process..& so they say we should've gotten more........The Nuk trade people are lambasting b/c the trade was too soon....and we should've gotten more. Well regardless of what the talking heads have said, the league FO's in both instances have disagreed. The Eagles turned down a trade for Nuk & here Clowney is about to sign for significantly less than what he thought he was worth & if he doesn't resign with the seahawks, they will only get a 3rd round pick....exactly what we got back for him.
They could’ve gotten much more for Clowney, I’m putting that on Gaine. They could’ve had a 1st and a 3rd if Gaine didn’t sit on his hands. They waited too long and KC went in another direction. If you don’t believe that it’s fine but it’s what happened.

Personally, I do think if they had truly opened up the market they could’ve gotten more from Hop as well. There was no real need to trade him now. Just be cause the Eagles didn’t want him doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been a better market for him. Maybe Hop isn’t the best fit, they’ve got 2 really good TEs, and a pretty strong WR core (when healthy). In that instance I can see why they wouldn’t want to drop big coin on another WR. Common sense dictates if Buffalo paid what they did for Diggs you should’ve been able to get something similar for Hop. Hop would be an awesome fit there. What makes sense is OB views Buff as more of an obstacle and didn’t want to send him there
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
They could’ve gotten much more for Clowney, I’m putting that on Gaine. They could’ve had a 1st and a 3rd if Gaine didn’t sit on his hands. They waited too long and KC went in another direction. If you don’t believe that it’s fine but it’s what happened.

Personally, I do think if they had truly opened up the market they could’ve gotten more from Hop as well. There was no real need to trade him now. Just be cause the Eagles didn’t want him doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been a better market for him. Maybe Hop isn’t the best fit, they’ve got 2 really good TEs, and a pretty strong WR core (when healthy). In that instance I can see why they wouldn’t want to drop big coin on another WR. Common sense dictates if Buffalo paid what they did for Diggs you should’ve been able to get something similar for Hop. Hop would be an awesome fit there. What makes sense is OB views Buff as more of an obstacle and didn’t want to send him there
The Clowney thing, what's going on with him now should show everyone that its entirely plausible that no, they couldn't get much more for him than what they actually got. This is what Seattle is faced with now. Sign him to a deal they think he's worth..which is not what he thinks he's worth...........or get a comp 3rd.

and with Nuk..look, we know Philly turned them down......... so I guess what it comes down to is whether or not you believe that only those 3 other teams rumored to be interested in trading for him.....& Philly were the only 4 teams that the Texans FO checked with &/or inquired about him over this what 5-6 month period when they were quietly shopping him. I have to believe that if Pellissero got word about this trade 2 weeks before it actually happened, then there were probably more teams that did inquire or that the FO checked with. My gut says that Buffalo was one of those teams & may have pulled the trigger on the deal for exactly what Minny got..but as with Philly, the big deal breaker for them was knowing that Nuk wanted a pay raise. Then here comes Arizona offering a player that BoB covets and a 2nd rounder....& you don't have to see him the AFC.

If you look at Diggs' deal, he has exactly the same number of years left and makes fairly close to the same amount of money as Nuk. But he ain't asking for a pay bump of 4-5 million per..............& he's younger than Nuk too. If i'm Buffalo, i make the deal for Diggs over Nuk in that situation too.
 
Last edited:

Earl34

Veteran
They could’ve gotten much more for Clowney, I’m putting that on Gaine. They could’ve had a 1st and a 3rd if Gaine didn’t sit on his hands. They waited too long and KC went in another direction. If you don’t believe that it’s fine but it’s what happened.

Personally, I do think if they had truly opened up the market they could’ve gotten more from Hop as well. There was no real need to trade him now. Just be cause the Eagles didn’t want him doesn’t mean there wouldn’t have been a better market for him. Maybe Hop isn’t the best fit, they’ve got 2 really good TEs, and a pretty strong WR core (when healthy). In that instance I can see why they wouldn’t want to drop big coin on another WR. Common sense dictates if Buffalo paid what they did for Diggs you should’ve been able to get something similar for Hop. Hop would be an awesome fit there. What makes sense is OB views Buff as more of an obstacle and didn’t want to send him there
Agree. Last year, the Eagles had injuries at WR. As a result, they tweaked their offense and ended up with a 4000 yard passer with 27 TDs and not one WR had 500 yard receiving. The entire passing game was built around the two TEs with over 222 targets and the RBs.

The Eagles proved they could rank 12th in scoring without a great WR. So, with a deep WR draft and their healthy WRs, I can see them not wanting to give up a 1st rounder for Hopkins. Also, for the same reason you mentioned with the Bills, maybe O'Brien didn't want to send Hopkins to the Patriots. Which reiterates the point that there was no real need to trade him NOW.
 


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