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GAMEDAY: Chargers @ Texans

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Some of the throws he made yesterday jumped off of the page. In the last 3 games what has made you think he's limited physically? I'm thinking if Caserio can fix the OL there will be few limits to the offense once Mills has a run game to work with. I'm very interested in what limits you think Mills has?

1.Quick decision maker - Check
2. Improving weekly- check
3. Makes anicipatory throws into tight windows with great accuracy.
4.Doesn't drop his eyes when the rush is coming for him.
5. Plenty strong enough arm. One of the best throws he made yesterday was a throw 30 yds downfield on a line to the opposite hash, about 50 yds in the air. Receiver couldn't keep his feet in, but that was a great throw and certainly not the type of throw a weak armed QB can make.

Now if you want to say he feathers some throws to much and sometimes locks onto his receivers I can get on board with you. But that can be fixed with more experience.



Which QB's jumped off of the page physically in the last draft? In next yrs draft? Did Brady/Manning Brees ect... jump off of the page physically? Nope the did their work with their minds. Which is a much more important trait. IMHO
I dont see him being able to use the whole field. Rail throws or sideline throws are the type every nfl qb can make. Can he make drive throws consistently inside a dirty pocket? Right now his ypa is 6.2 which means he's dink and dunk. A franchise qb is a qb who can make up for what you don't have. There are no perfect teams, so your qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. I like Mills, but I don't like him enough to just give him the job without competing for it. If Caserio deems a qb a franchise qb, you got to draft him. Regardless, the qb is the most important player on the team. Again, Mills earned the right to compete next year as a starter to me.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I dont see him being able to use the whole field. Rail throws or sideline throws are the type every nfl qb can make. Can he make drive throws consistently inside a dirty pocket? Right now his ypa is 6.2 which means he's dink and dunk. A franchise qb is a qb who can make up for what you don't have. There are no perfect teams, so your qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. I like Mills, but I don't like him enough to just give him the job without competing for it. If Caserio deems a qb a franchise qb, you got to draft him. Regardless, the qb is the most important player on the team. Again, Mills earned the right to compete next year as a starter to me.
I don't disagree with him not being given the job without competition. That's a strategy. But on the flip side of that argument, if he has the potential, do you want to sacrifice starting reps that you could be using to groom him and make him better? Just think if Mills had been a first round pick and they'd given him those starter's reps and special attention right from the beginning of training camp. There's a good possibility that he would have been much further along than he is now if they'd done that.

I think it's pretty rare for any QB to look like a franchise QB when they're a rookie. They all have a lot of growing to do the first couple of years, and a lot of guys hit a wall and just stop growing/maturing.

I'm in the camp of naming him the starter and focusing on developing the line and the running game for him.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I dont see him being able to use the whole field. Rail throws or sideline throws are the type every nfl qb can make. Can he make drive throws consistently inside a dirty pocket? Right now his ypa is 6.2 which means he's dink and dunk. A franchise qb is a qb who can make up for what you don't have. There are no perfect teams, so your qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. I like Mills, but I don't like him enough to just give him the job without competing for it. If Caserio deems a qb a franchise qb, you got to draft him. Regardless, the qb is the most important player on the team. Again, Mills earned the right to compete next year as a starter to me.
Not every NFL QB can make the type of throw I described to you that Mills made on Sunday. Example: There's no way that TT could've made that throw. Schaub couldn't make that throw. (Although he tried to sometimes which lead to pick 6's)

His YPA is so low because Culley/Kelly/Pep kept the training wheels on him the 1st time he started. Also you cant run the type of patterns like the one I described when the OL doesn't give the receivers time to run basic deep over/under routes. I expect the YPA to go back down on Sunday because the 49ers have a really good pass rush and the routes will have to be shortened. Also they will have to go back to the sending 3 receivers to one side of the hashes routes more often because of lack of protection. Mills is going to have to go back to reading and getting rid of the ball quickly again. Fix the OL and run the ball like you did Sunday and you will see performances like you did Sunday become more common place.

The things you see as weaknesses, I see as correctable with experience and improved talent around Mills. Like throwing from a dirty pocket, he's getting alot of experience doing that this yr. Sunday is the 1st time this yr that Mills has had time to sit back in a relatively clean pocket read defenses and make throws. He did a great job throwing with extreme accuracy and anticipation.

I'm all for bringing in competition. I'm hoping Zappe falls to the 5th or 6th rd as well as bringing in a vet to compete. A Kyle Allen type backup would be optimal. What I find interesting is Texans fans get a young inexperienced QB that can obviously play and had a great game and are still not optimistic.

To me Mills has earned the right to go into next yr as the starter and gain more experience so Caserio can see what he has. Right now I believe the results so far look very promising.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I dont see him being able to use the whole field. Rail throws or sideline throws are the type every nfl qb can make. Can he make drive throws consistently inside a dirty pocket? Right now his ypa is 6.2 which means he's dink and dunk. A franchise qb is a qb who can make up for what you don't have. There are no perfect teams, so your qb is going to have to be a force multiplier. I like Mills, but I don't like him enough to just give him the job without competing for it. If Caserio deems a qb a franchise qb, you got to draft him. Regardless, the qb is the most important player on the team. Again, Mills earned the right to compete next year as a starter to me.

Tom Brady’s career average is 7.5, his highest career year was 8.6 and his lowest was, not counting his rookie year that he played one game, 6.3. Most years he was high 6s to mid 7s.

If that’s a “dink and dunk” QB then sign me up for 10 years of that.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tom Brady’s career average is 7.5, his highest career year was 8.6 and his lowest was, not counting his rookie year that he played one game, 6.3. Most years he was high 6s to mid 7s.

If that’s a “dink and dunk” QB then sigh me up for 10 years of that.
The difference between 6.5 and 7.0 is really just hitting 1 long pass per game.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It looked pretty much like the same offense... only it was working
Agreed. But play calling is an art. Same offense, one guy calling doesn't work, another guy calls & it seems to work.

I've been wondering how much they work on the first 15 plays, if they use a script & if Pep is heavily involved with that, then Kelly takes over trying to take what he learned out of those first 15 & attack the defense.

Maybe Kelly isn't seeing things right.

Last two games, the Texans scored in the second half. Something is different.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
NFL team lineups are decimated by covid right now, so we didn't play the Chargers full line up. We're still not that great a team, but we're sure not the bottom feeders we were earlier in this season. The team has improved. How much we probably won't know until next season after we've gone through another free agent season and draft. This is a bottoms up rebuild and a lot of players on the team won't be back next year, same as what happened this year.

Next year we should be a much better organized mess and be right in the middle of the league, not at the bottom.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
NFL team lineups are decimated by covid right now, so we didn't play the Chargers full line up. We're still not that great a team, but we're sure not the bottom feeders we were earlier in this season. The team has improved. How much we probably won't know until next season after we've gone through another free agent season and draft. This is a bottoms up rebuild and a lot of players on the team won't be back next year, same as what happened this year.

Next year we should be a much better organized mess and be right in the middle of the league, not at the bottom.
Agreed,

I kinda hope they bottom out 1 more yr. It would help the rebuild so much.
 
Here's the way I see it. We get zip for Watson in 2022 (but I'll not rule out something in 2023 after his suspension) and we'll have one top five pick in the 1st round. With Mills on the team, do you really think they'll use that 1st round pick on a questionable list of QBs? I could see them taking a flyer on a QB in the 2nd round if one of the top five or six QBs should mysteriously fall that far, but not in the 1st round.
So who would you rather have as starter?
I'm looking at it from another angle. I don't see them taking a QB in the upcoming draft, but I am suspicious of 2 things.
1) Texans bringing in another veteran QB (Taylor = gone) who could very well make it an open competition.
2) Mills is getting confident in this system which is great but he also needs consistency which I feel will be compromised if a new offensive coordinator is hired.

I don't know who I would rather have as the starter since the starter may not be on the roster nor available yet. I'm just not ready to automatically give Mills the starter job as was alluded to in the post I quoted by TK, but he did state with strong competition.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Jets & Seattle's defense are worse than the Jags & Chargers. We scored in the 2nd half against the better defenses.
Jags only managed 1 sack and 1 int and the Texans only scored 10 second half points... Chargers were missing half their team... Yes the Texans are getting better
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Jets & Seattle's defense are worse than the Jags & Chargers. We scored in the 2nd half against the better defenses.
Jags only managed 1 sack and 1 int and the Texans only scored 10 second half points... Chargers were missing half their team... Yes the Texans are getting better
We lost to some sucky teams but beat some less sucky teams which means we don’t suck as much as we did earlier this season when we were one of the most sucky teams.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I'm looking at it from another angle. I don't see them taking a QB in the upcoming draft, but I am suspicious of 2 things.
1) Texans bringing in another veteran QB (Taylor = gone) who could very well make it an open competition.
2) Mills is getting confident in this system which is great but he also needs consistency which I feel will be compromised if a new offensive coordinator is hired.

I don't know who I would rather have as the starter since the starter may not be on the roster nor available yet. I'm just not ready to automatically give Mills the starter job as was alluded to in the post I quoted by TK, but he did state with strong competition.
1) Agreed I don’t see them taking a QB in the draft but I do want them to bring in a vet. Personally I say RGIII, he’ll be a FA after this season and should be able to get him cheap. He’s been around long enough now that he can talk to Mills QB to QB and advise him on the things film just can’t tell you.

2) I do disagree that a new OC would throw Mills off that much. First it’s going to be mostly a new team next year so there will lots of changes anyway. Also Kelly has only worked with Mills one year and Mills wasn’t getting first team reps at that. A vet OC would know how to help players adjust to a new offense. Kelly is using the playbook of a guy that is no longer here

It’s fine to not name Mills the automatic starter but I’ve never been a fan of the “he won in training camp” idea of picking QBs. I don’t care what players claim it’s a different feeling and mindset when you know the 300 lbs of muscle charging at you aren’t going to actually hit you vs on the field where they are trying to kill you.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Not every NFL QB can make the type of throw I described to you that Mills made on Sunday. Example: There's no way that TT could've made that throw. Schaub couldn't make that throw. (Although he tried to sometimes which lead to pick 6's)

His YPA is so low because Culley/Kelly/Pep kept the training wheels on him the 1st time he started. Also you cant run the type of patterns like the one I described when the OL doesn't give the receivers time to run basic deep over/under routes. I expect the YPA to go back down on Sunday because the 49ers have a really good pass rush and the routes will have to be shortened. Also they will have to go back to the sending 3 receivers to one side of the hashes routes more often because of lack of protection. Mills is going to have to go back to reading and getting rid of the ball quickly again. Fix the OL and run the ball like you did Sunday and you will see performances like you did Sunday become more common place.

The things you see as weaknesses, I see as correctable with experience and improved talent around Mills. Like throwing from a dirty pocket, he's getting alot of experience doing that this yr. Sunday is the 1st time this yr that Mills has had time to sit back in a relatively clean pocket read defenses and make throws. He did a great job throwing with extreme accuracy and anticipation.

I'm all for bringing in competition. I'm hoping Zappe falls to the 5th or 6th rd as well as bringing in a vet to compete. A Kyle Allen type backup would be optimal. What I find interesting is Texans fans get a young inexperienced QB that can obviously play and had a great game and are still not optimistic.

To me Mills has earned the right to go into next yr as the starter and gain more experience so Caserio can see what he has. Right now I believe the results so far look very promising.
When Brady entered the NFL, throwing 25 times per game were alot. Back then, it was still a run orientated game vs now is a passing league. I just see him as a NFL player, which is good, but I see his limitations in being a franchise caliber qb. I mean, look at the afc and the QB's you're going have to beat to get to the superbowl even in 3 yrs. Mahomes, Herbert, Jackson, Allen, Burrough. It doesn’t serviceable isn't going to get it even in 3 yrs. Notice I didn't mention any of the rookies this year? I also didn't mention Watson in case he is playing in the afc also. If you go into a game a your qb isn't able to overcome some holes in your team, you're not going far because you can't build a team to completion now days with the cap if your qb isn't that dude. In my opinion, he's earned a right to compete for the job as a starter, but if they evaluate a qb as a franchise qb, then you have to draft him or your stuck being a avg team.
 

Earl34

All Pro
It looked pretty much like the same offense... only it was working
In the video I posted. I mentioned looking at the routes. It was the same downfield pass offense with 3-4 WRs running individual routes and expecting them to win their matchup. The difference was the pass blocking allowed the downfield routes to develop. For the running game, it appeared they use fewer shotgun runs and more zone blocking,
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
In the video I posted. I mentioned looking at the routes. It was the same downfield pass offense with 3-4 WRs running individual routes and expecting them to win their matchup. The difference was the pass blocking allowed the downfield routes to develop. For the running game, it appeared they use fewer shotgun runs and more zone blocking,
The guy in the video you posted demonstrated several route combinations that helped get someone open.

Sure. There were a few one on one situations on the outside Davis expected his guy to win, but that's every offense.

For the running game, it appeared they use fewer shotgun runs and more zone blocking,
True. I can't argue that.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When Brady entered the NFL, throwing 25 times per game were alot. Back then, it was still a run orientated game vs now is a passing league. I just see him as a NFL player, which is good, but I see his limitations in being a franchise caliber qb. I mean, look at the afc and the QB's you're going have to beat to get to the superbowl even in 3 yrs. Mahomes, Herbert, Jackson, Allen, Burrough. It doesn’t serviceable isn't going to get it even in 3 yrs. Notice I didn't mention any of the rookies this year? I also didn't mention Watson in case he is playing in the afc also. If you go into a game a your qb isn't able to overcome some holes in your team, you're not going far because you can't build a team to completion now days with the cap if your qb isn't that dude. In my opinion, he's earned a right to compete for the job as a starter, but if they evaluate a qb as a franchise qb, then you have to draft him or your stuck being a avg team.
I see Brady as so much more. He and Manning changed the game. Kinda like Vick changed the game. Simply put, He's the GOAT and you cant expect any QB to live up to that legacy.

The 2nd part of your post I also agree with. I will leave you with this bit of optimism, Mills so far in his career as a starting QB is 1-1 against the QB's you listed with crap talent around him.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In the video I posted. I mentioned looking at the routes. It was the same downfield pass offense with 3-4 WRs running individual routes and expecting them to win their matchup. The difference was the pass blocking allowed the downfield routes to develop. For the running game, it appeared they use fewer shotgun runs and more zone blocking,
Appears to be more inside zone blocking. IMHO
 
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AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
When Brady entered the NFL, throwing 25 times per game were alot. Back then, it was still a run orientated game vs now is a passing league. I just see him as a NFL player, which is good, but I see his limitations in being a franchise caliber qb. I mean, look at the afc and the QB's you're going have to beat to get to the superbowl even in 3 yrs. Mahomes, Herbert, Jackson, Allen, Burrough. It doesn’t serviceable isn't going to get it even in 3 yrs. Notice I didn't mention any of the rookies this year? I also didn't mention Watson in case he is playing in the afc also. If you go into a game a your qb isn't able to overcome some holes in your team, you're not going far because you can't build a team to completion now days with the cap if your qb isn't that dude. In my opinion, he's earned a right to compete for the job as a starter, but if they evaluate a qb as a franchise qb, then you have to draft him or your stuck being a avg team.

the average number of passes per team per game
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What did you guys think about the Chargers kick returner returning every kick? He crossed the twenty once.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
With a little more than 8 minutes remaining in the game Herbert was 15/20 for 198 yards.

He finished the game 27/35 for 336 yards.

I know it's garbage time, but still impressive.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Agreed I don’t see them taking a QB in the draft but I do want them to bring in a vet. Personally I say RGIII, he’ll be a FA after this season and should be able to get him cheap. He’s been around long enough now that he can talk to Mills QB to QB and advise him on the things film just can’t tell you.
Griffin is a FA right now. He's also doing color on college games for ESPN. Nobody wants him.
 

Earl34

All Pro

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
NFL team lineups are decimated by covid right now, so we didn't play the Chargers full line up. We're still not that great a team, but we're sure not the bottom feeders we were earlier in this season. The team has improved. How much we probably won't know until next season after we've gone through another free agent season and draft. This is a bottoms up rebuild and a lot of players on the team won't be back next year, same as what happened this year.

Next year we should be a much better organized mess and be right in the middle of the league, not at the bottom.
Interesting to me how teams other than Texans get the excuse they are missing players. Like the Texans don’t also have 20+ players out on Covid list. How many other team’s have their best player on paid leave?

Its like the Texans are Bane and the other teams Batman in their first fight now that they also have players out.

“You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it!”

Interesting to see how other teams look compared to Texans when dealt similar circumstances.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Improved run blocking? Really?

Let's look at the top photo. On the left side you have 66 and 79 double teaming a player while on 66's outside he is letting a player come clean. Over on the right side you have two Texans again double teaming while 18 is picking up an outside rusher. Meanwhile in the middle, Bolts 57 is left unblocked.

Let's look at the second photo. Again on the right you have the same two Texans double teaming with 18 ready to pick up anyone outside. But look at 74, he's not blocking anyone. And 67 is blocking the wrong guy. 74 should be blocking 67's guy and 67 should be blocking the LB. Or maybe 74 is pulling, you really can't tell. But this leaves the LB unblocked.

Let's look at the third photo. This is really a cluster****. You have two Texans on the right hash mark blocking the same guy. And you have two Texans on the left blocking the same guy. And you have three Bolts already in the backfield putting pressure on Mills.

Let's look at the forth photo. Again you have three Bolts in the backfield with Burkhead escaping the tackle of a Bolt. If he gets past this one tackle, he has a good opening on the left. He breaks it for 37 yards. But look close. There are two Texans in the middle on one Bolt and on the left we also have two Texans on one Bolts. Why did three Bolts go unblocked to get into the backfield. Burkhead was lucky.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Improved run blocking? Really?
It was sarcasm.

At least I know what you think of me if you think I posted those four pictures to support the statement "Improved run blocking"

One of the three guys wasn't unblocked. Heck tried his butt off to block the guy in the center. Probably should have been called for a hold, or illegal use of hands to the face.

& yes, the purpose of the photos (not that I stated as much) was to show how badass Rex Burkhead was on that play.


Funny thing is, Lofton was saying how the coaches will be breaking down this play the next day saying, "A hat, on a hat, on a hat."
 
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banned1976

sleeper mode
It was sarcasm.

At least I know what you think of me if you think I posted those four pictures to support the statement "Improved run blocking"

One of the three guys wasn't unblocked. Heck tried his butt off to block the guy in the center. Probably should have been called for a hold, or illegal use of hands to the face.

& yes, the purpose of the photos (not that I stated as much) was to show how badass Rex Burkhead was on that play.


Funny thing is, Lofton was saying how the coaches will be breaking down this play the next day saying, "A hat, on a hat, on a hat."
To be fair to #19, you do enjoy playing devil's advocate on this board a lot and your sarcasm is tougher to sniff out than most others.

At any rate, there's a reason the Texans were averaging just about 75 yards per game rushing this year. The Texans are dead last at rushing DVOA (-35.7%). This game absolutely represented the blind squirrel finding a nut.

If I have to hang my hat on anything regarding the Texans offense, it's Mills continuing his improvement, not Burkhead ever coming close to duplicating what he did in this game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Improved run blocking? Really?

Let's look at the top photo. On the left side you have 66 and 79 double teaming a player while on 66's outside he is letting a player come clean. Over on the right side you have two Texans again double teaming while 18 is picking up an outside rusher. Meanwhile in the middle, Bolts 57 is left unblocked.

Let's look at the second photo. Again on the right you have the same two Texans double teaming with 18 ready to pick up anyone outside. But look at 74, he's not blocking anyone. And 67 is blocking the wrong guy. 74 should be blocking 67's guy and 67 should be blocking the LB. Or maybe 74 is pulling, you really can't tell. But this leaves the LB unblocked.

Let's look at the third photo. This is really a cluster****. You have two Texans on the right hash mark blocking the same guy. And you have two Texans on the left blocking the same guy. And you have three Bolts already in the backfield putting pressure on Mills.

Let's look at the forth photo. Again you have three Bolts in the backfield with Burkhead escaping the tackle of a Bolt. If he gets past this one tackle, he has a good opening on the left. He breaks it for 37 yards. But look close. There are two Texans in the middle on one Bolt and on the left we also have two Texans on one Bolts. Why did three Bolts go unblocked to get into the backfield. Burkhead was lucky.
RB's in the NFL usually have to make 1 guy miss. However this isn't supposed to happen in the backfield except in goaline situations.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
To be fair to #19, you do enjoy playing devil's advocate on this board a lot and your sarcasm is tougher to sniff out than most others.

At any rate, there's a reason the Texans were averaging just about 75 yards per game rushing this year. The Texans are dead last at rushing DVOA (-35.7%). This game absolutely represented the blind squirrel finding a nut.

If I have to hang my hat on anything regarding the Texans offense, it's Mills continuing his improvement, not Burkhead ever coming close to duplicating what he did in this game.
This is a case where DVOA numbers dont lie.

This is really simple, Burkhead had a career day.
 


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