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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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OptimisticTexan said:
If this is indeed the case
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It's not.

OptimisticTexan said:
OB has had a parade of QB's come through the door trying to run his version of the EP system.....to no avail.
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I wouldn't say to no avail. I mean it's not pretty, but we are winning. We're lacking consistency for sure. But Watson is doing a lot of work from the pocket within the design of the offense.

It's only a matter of time before it's his offense (Watson's).

OptimisticTexan said:
Worth asking, how much would that same offense be now that every position outside of Hopkins has been upgraded?
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Yeah, I kinda liked those 4 TD games.

But it's not all doom & gloom. Don't let them fool you.
 
76Texan said:
That was just a poor design play.
Play action pass that neither ILBs bought. Why?
The protection looks like pass pro right at the outset.
That's a "trying to fool oneself" play
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That's what I've been saying. Nothing looks like nothing. The run action doesn't look like the pass action. Schaub used to have forever to underthrow AJ. Why? Everyone sold that action. Look at Jimmy G and Shanny is doing, it's the same thing.
 
Mr teX said:
Well Hyde did release late off the playfake & was presumably DW4's dump off route. but hard to get many guys out when you're in max pro like that.

& its only like this imo b/c the guy he has perhaps the best chemistry with (WFV) is always out & as a result, we're constantly having to rely on guys that are relatively new to the offense in 1 form or fashion. Last year when WFV was out, it was Coutee & Vycint Smith. this year its Stills a guy who wasn't here until the beginning of the season & we even saw Steven Mitchell get some starts.

When WFV is on the field, DW4 & the offense run seamlessly.
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Serious question for you. Earlier in the season, Clint Stoerner said (and I’m paraphrasing a bit) said that OB’s offense doesn’t do a great job of “scheming” guys open. It looked to him like OB wanted his guys to “out athlete” the other team. Couldn’t be that one of the reasons the offense runs so well when Fuller plays is because his presence makes it easier on everyone else? He’s so freaking fast and such a good route runner, the defense has to pay significant attention to him. This makes it easier on everyone else to win their battles right?

One of my complaints about OB’s offense is the complexity, specifically as it relates to injuries. We know guys are going to get hurt, it’s a fact of life in the NFL. We know Fuller is going to get hurt, it’s happened every year. Back ups don’t get the reps other guys get during the week, yet when someone goes down with injury their back up is supposed to step on the field and make the correct reads and be on the same page with the QB. That’s a tall order IMO. Cecil Shorts and Wade Smith have both stated that it takes 2-3 yrs to fully grasp this offense. Maybe that’s another reason why we see some of the issues we see when Fuller goes down, Hop and Fuller are the only WRs we’ve got with that amount of time invested in learning “the system”
 
otisbean said:
Serious question for you. Earlier in the season, Clint Stoerner said (and I’m paraphrasing a bit) said that OB’s offense doesn’t do a great job of “scheming” guys open. It looked to him like OB wanted his guys to “out athlete” the other team. Couldn’t be that one of the reasons the offense runs so well when Fuller plays is because his presence makes it easier on everyone else? He’s so freaking fast and such a good route runner, the defense has to pay significant attention to him. This makes it easier on everyone else to win their battles right?
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I researched Colts Ii last night. & that's just not the case. I mean his speed does help, but the way we used bunched & stacked receivers & the action in the backfield to free receivers...

Now he may just be smarter than the other guys, when running out of those stacks & bunches he sets up natural rubs so smooth, not where the defender is picked by one of our players, but where the guy defending him has to run around one of his own. Creates a gap & nobody is closing a gap on WFV.
 
IDEXAN said:
MaHomes has the golden arm. He's a rare talent and the only other QB in the NFL today who can sling it like MaHomes is Rogers.
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But as far as type of QB, there is no difference. Neither are drop back pocket passers which is "supposed" to be O'Briens type.

He might very well have preferred Mahomes, but his offense is his offense. He's not going to design anything different for Mahomes than he has for Watson. It would be the same stale sorta PRO.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yep. I wish I knew as much about the power structures of other teams as I do with the Texans. Mainly, I'm curious if the boardroom consensus model has ever bred a championship team. If anyone knows, please tell me. I'm always welcoming to information.

I tend to be old school (i.e. owner>GM>HC power structure). For instance, I like what the 49ers did with John Lynch. They hired him as a GM, and then he goes and helps them find a HC that aligns with his vision for the team. He's not out there getting a QB and telling Shanahan to just adapt to it because the owner said get a QB. They work together as a team to put the roster together, and they have a partnership that compliments each other.

What we know with O'Brien is that he was never on the same page as Rick Smith, and apparently Brian Gaine, as well. It's just weird, and the sort of dysfunction that I believe creates the inconsistencies.

I've got a couple of recent articles with Cal the past year, and it literally sounds like corporate press releases after a quarterly revenue review. He says words, but they do not mean much of anything. He's an empty suit, IMO.
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I'm also old school as well.

Gaine leaving had nothing to do with BOB.
 
thunderkyss said:
But as far as type of QB, there is no difference. Neither are drop back pocket passers which is "supposed" to be O'Briens type.

He might very well have preferred Mahomes, but his offense is his offense. He's not going to design anything different for Mahomes than he has for Watson. It would be the same stale sorta PRO.
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We dont know this.

What we do know is BOB wanted Mahomes and RS wouldn't give up an extra 3rd to get BOB the QB he wanted.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm also old school as well.

Gaine leaving had nothing to do with BOB.
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I don’t know about that. But what I do know is with Gaine as GM the Texans FO was about as passive as I’ve ever seen and since his removal they have been anything but passive. The people most affected by the passive approach are the coaches...then the players.

If O’Brien had nothing to do with Gaine being fired then he should have. I know I would have been raising hell that the GM was doing nothing to help me out.
 
banned1976 said:
I don’t know about that. But what I do know is with Gaine as GM the Texans FO was about as passive as I’ve ever seen and since his removal they have been anything but passive. The people most affected by the passive approach are the coaches...then the players.

If O’Brien had nothing to do with Gaine being fired then he should have. I know I would have been raising hell that the GM was doing nothing to help me out.
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A guy over at CF posted that somebody in the know, said Gaine was fired for sexual harassment. He's been reliable on all of the other stuff he's posted.
 
steelbtexan said:
We dont know this.

What we do know is BOB wanted Mahomes and RS wouldn't give up an extra 3rd to get BOB the QB he wanted.
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I am way more certain that BO'b would run his offense regardless of QB than what the Texans boardroom would/wouldn't give to move up in that draft.

We've seen BO'b be BO'b regardless of QB & we've seen the Texans give up high draft picks to get rid of players.
 
thunderkyss said:
I am way more certain that BO'b would run his offense regardless of QB than what the Texans boardroom would/wouldn't give to move up in that draft.

We've seen BO'b be BO'b regardless of QB & we've seen the Texans give up high draft picks to get rid of players.
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Your point is?

My point is RS didn't get BOB the QB he wanted and now he's having to make do with DW4. I still dont think regardless of who the HC is they can win a championship with DW4 at QB. I would love to be wrong.
 
76Texan said:
Look at what Wilson had that Deshaun doesn't:

2012 - Seahawks no. 1 in rushing attempts and 3rd in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in points allowed and 4th in yards allowed. Leon Washington All Pro as a returner. Solid kicking and punting game.

2013 - Seahawks 2nd in rushing attempts, 4th in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in both yards and points allowed. Golden Tate averaged 11.5 yd per punt return on 51 returns.
33-35 FGs, zero PAT missed.

2014 - Seahawks 2nd in rushing attempts, no. 1 in rushing yards gained; no. 1 in both points and yards allowed.
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You forgot competent coaching.
 
thunderkyss said:
I researched Colts Ii last night. & that's just not the case. I mean his speed does help, but the way we used bunched & stacked receivers & the action in the backfield to free receivers...

Now he may just be smarter than the other guys, when running out of those stacks & bunches he sets up natural rubs so smooth, not where the defender is picked by one of our players, but where the guy defending him has to run around one of his own. Creates a gap & nobody is closing a gap on WFV.
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I’m a little confused. In my post I’m making the assertion that Fuller’s presence makes it easier on the other WRs and that’s why our offense is better with him on the field. I said “he’s so freaking fast AND such a good route runner”. In your first sentence you say it’s just not the case, but your second sentence is effectively backing up my point. His route running and savvy creates gaps and nobody is closing a gap on Fuller. To me route running is not just the route, but how it’s run.

effectively we are saying the same thing:

me- he’s such a good route runner

you- Now he may just be smarter than the other guys, when running out of those stacks & bunches he sets up natural rubs so smooth, not where the defender is picked by one of our players, but where the guy defending him has to run around one of his own

me- he’s so freaking fast

you - Creates a gap & nobody is closing a gap on WFV
 
That 2nd and 23 and 3rd and long made me wonder if OB didn’t want to try. Watson’s body language looked like he didn’t agree with the play call.
 
thunderkyss said:
Rumor is he wanted Mahomes.

In what way is Mahomes "the type of QB that he would have picked" & Watson not?
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Mahomes has a better arm, now before people blow a gasket you look at their combines and games since and yeah Mahomes has the better arm. Hell it was a, what, 50 yard pass at the combine that got Mahomes really noticed when all the focus was on Watson and Trubisky.

I think Watson is the smarter QB, or maybe clever is the better word, but of the three if you like big arms on your QB then Mahomes was the best choice. All that being said I don’t know how well Mahomes would have worked either because he sure has hell isn't a pocket passer.
 
maverick512000 said:
Mahomes has a better arm, now before people blow a gasket you look at their combines and games since and yeah Mahomes has the better arm. Hell it was a, what, 50 yard pass at the combine that got Mahomes really noticed when all the focus was on Watson and Trubisky.

I think Watson is the smarter QB, or maybe clever is the better word, but of the three if you like big arms on your QB then Mahomes was the best choice. All that being said I don’t know how well Mahomes would have worked either because he sure has hell isn't a pocket passer.
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I would've liked for BOB to get his QB so that we could've found out.
 
Seegara said:
That's what I suspected at the time. I never thought we would find it out.
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I never once have thought it was football related. I’ve been involved in to many terminations where you had to get the person off site in a hurry to miss the signs. That came without warning and was effective immediately that to me screams racial, sexual or theft of some nature. The fact that there hasn’t even been a hint of a leak says that someone has put the fear of God into the people there or at least the fear of lawyers.

I agree we’ll never know the whole story though.
 
Double Barrel said:
And they will continue to struggle with inconsistency as long as they have this out-of-phase, misaligned match of scheme and talent. We will continue to see flashes of brilliance from everyone involved, but it will never be a dominant consistency that is required to win an NFL championship.
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I hear what you’re saying, and agree in principle. But it will have to look like accidents. No one can trace it to us.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The 7 games were those 7 games. Problem I have......OB wanted Watson to play in his stale offense that had zero history of success instead of building on the success he was having in the offense they ran during his first 7 games. That's on OB and his offensive staff that they didn't go back to the drawing board and incorporate a new playbook.
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Defenses adjust too.
 
Thorn said:
And so what if we had gotten Mahomes. OB would still be in change and Mahomes wouldn't be having as good a career here. Watson would be on some other team kicking ass.
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Maybe/Maybe not

I would love to take my chances.

Mahomes fits what BOB wants to do much better than DW4 wouldn't you agree?
 
steelbtexan said:
Maybe/Maybe not

I would love to take my chances.

Mahomes fits what BOB wants to do much better than DW4 wouldn't you agree?
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Let me ask you this, do you think Belichick or Payton would take a talented QB and not play to his strengths? To me, it’s about building a system to fit the most important player on the team. If BOB had Lamar Jackson, would he force Jackson to run his system or would he make the necessary changes for Jackson to be successful?

I watch DW and can‘t help but think he would tear it up playing in Kubiak’s offense. I wasn’t a huge fan of GK the head coach but he’s a terrific OC, and his system seems tailored made for DW’s skill set. I know OB has made some changes and kudos to him for somewhat adapting, I just think he could do more. For all his warts, and IMHO most are due to youth/inexperience, DW is a tremendous talent. I’d like my FB team to take get the best players possible and create systems that fit that talent Vs. always needing a certain type of player. If that makes sense. And for the record, this is also a knock on GK, because at the time I believe Manning wanted to play for us but GK was worried about his fit in our offense, WTF?
 
otisbean said:
Let me ask you this, do you think Belichick or Payton would take a talented QB and not play to his strengths? To me, it’s about building a system to fit the most important player on the team. If BOB had Lamar Jackson, would he force Jackson to run his system or would he make the necessary changes for Jackson to be successful?

I watch DW and can‘t help but think he would tear it up playing in Kubiak’s offense. I wasn’t a huge fan of GK the head coach but he’s a terrific OC, and his system seems tailored made for DW’s skill set. I know OB has made some changes and kudos to him for somewhat adapting, I just think he could do more. For all his warts, and IMHO most are due to youth/inexperience, DW is a tremendous talent. I’d like my FB team to take get the best players possible and create systems that fit that talent Vs. always needing a certain type of player. If that makes sense. And for the record, this is also a knock on GK, because at the time I believe Manning wanted to play for us but GK was worried about his fit in our offense, WTF?
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You were spot on until the bolded. Gary wanted Manning but RS extended Schaub instead... right after his injury. Gary was pissed from what I heard... a member here is part of GK's family

edit: I believe that HOU would have won a SB in 2012/2013 with Manning and a bit of health otherwise
 
JB said:
You were spot on until the bolded. Gary wanted Manning but RS extended Schaub instead... right after his injury. Gary was pissed from what I heard... a member here is part of GK's family

edit: I believe that HOU would have won a SB in 2012/2013 with Manning and a bit of health otherwise
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Oops! I could’ve sworn there were reports GK was hesitant on Manning because of his fit with the offense. I remember thinking why wouldn’t Manning fit if Schaub could. My mistake.
 
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otisbean said:
Let me ask you this, do you think Belichick or Payton would take a talented QB and not play to his strengths? To me, it’s about building a system to fit the most important player on the team. If BOB had Lamar Jackson, would he force Jackson to run his system or would he make the necessary changes for Jackson to be successful?

I watch DW and can‘t help but think he would tear it up playing in Kubiak’s offense. I wasn’t a huge fan of GK the head coach but he’s a terrific OC, and his system seems tailored made for DW’s skill set. I know OB has made some changes and kudos to him for somewhat adapting, I just think he could do more. For all his warts, and IMHO most are due to youth/inexperience, DW is a tremendous talent. I’d like my FB team to take get the best players possible and create systems that fit that talent Vs. always needing a certain type of player. If that makes sense. And for the record, this is also a knock on GK, because at the time I believe Manning wanted to play for us but GK was worried about his fit in our offense, WTF?
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What you're asking for is a full time ZBS. I'm glad they aren't running the ZBS full time and aren't so rigid that they dont change up their gameplans to fit their opponents.

According to one of our members who would know, he told me Kubiak wanted Manning and RS didn't because of the contract RS signed Schaub too and they would have had to trade cut too many players to fit in Manning in RS eyes. They could've made it work if RS had wanted to make this move.
 
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