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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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ObsiWan said:
IF the offense Garappolo ran while still in NE (and with Belichick) is the same thing that O'Brien is trying to run here (jury is still out on that) then, he, Jimmy G., has used it with a bit of success.
If steelb is talking about this season, then he's wrong and you're right, Garappolo is running Shanahan's (Denver's) offense.
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Steel is talking out his ass on this one. Jimmy G was drafted in 2014 and that was the same year that BoB signed with the Texans. The two never crossed paths and if he wants to claim that the system in NE is the same no matter who the OC is then you can't give any credit for anything that BoB did in NE to him because in that case he was just a messenger and literally anybody could have done it. Every time Jimmy G had to take the field for any serious game BB switched the scheme up to better suit him and didn't try to run the same thing he runs with Brady. It all may have been the EP system but it was different variations to fit the QBs strengths and no way in hell did he expect him to read defenses and adjust like Brady.

To claim that Jimmy G could make this system work better than Watson is just ludicrous.
 
steelbtexan said:
So you're saying the rest of the post wasn't true in last weeks game?
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Watson himself said he had a sucky game. That, I think, is a good thing. CnnnD said Watson was seen working on long throws with his QB coach. So they know work needs to be done. And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
He should.
 
maverick512000 said:
Steel is talking out his ass on this one. Jimmy G was drafted in 2014 and that was the same year that BoB signed with the Texans. The two never crossed paths and if he wants to claim that the system in NE is the same no matter who the OC is then you can't give any credit for anything that BoB did in NE to him because in that case he was just a messenger and literally anybody could have done it. Every time Jimmy G had to take the field for any serious game BB switched the scheme up to better suit him and didn't try to run the same thing he runs with Brady. It all may have been the EP system but it was different variations to fit the QBs strengths and no way in hell did he expect him to read defenses and adjust like Brady.

To claim that Jimmy G could make this system work better than Watson is just ludicrous.
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Word usage!


You're right though.

But word usage
 
Uncle Rico said:
Norv Turner looked pretty good with a washout QB on Sunday. I guess the defense should have held them to 9 points instead of 16 yeah?
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Yeah if 1 game against us in 2019 wipes out the 4 prior years he was in Minny & SD where his offenses were ranked in the 20's in pts scored.
 
ObsiWan said:
Watson himself said he had a sucky game. That, I think, is a good thing. CnnnD said Watson was seen working on long throws with his QB coach. So they know work needs to be done. And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
He should.
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ObsiWan said:
Watson himself said he had a sucky game. That, I think, is a good thing. CnnnD said Watson was seen working on long throws with his QB coach. So they know work needs to be done. And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
He should.
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ObsiWan said:
Watson himself said he had a sucky game. That, I think, is a good thing. CnnnD said Watson was seen working on long throws with his QB coach. So they know work needs to be done. And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
He should.
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One more. The youngster was just off. But some acts like he can't

 
Mr teX said:
Yeah if 1 game against us in 2019 wipes out the 4 prior years he was in Minny & SD where his offenses were ranked in the 20's in pts scored.
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Tex you know as well as I that I'm not one to jump on the "Blame BoB" wagon but this new line of argument that Steel has that Watson isn't smart enough to run BoB's offense is just BS and if it were true would just make BoB look bad because that means he can't develop a QB to a higher level nor adjust his offense to fit that QBs current level. Watson had issues with his throwing last game but BoB seems to have issues adjusting the scheme to make something work. There were a lot of points left on the field in that last game both by Watson and by BoB.
 
maverick512000 said:
Tex you know as well as I that I'm not one to jump on the "Blame BoB" wagon but this new line of argument that Steel has that Watson isn't smart enough to run BoB's offense is just BS and if it were true would just make BoB look bad because that means he can't develop a QB to a higher level nor adjust his offense to fit that QBs current level. Watson had issues with his throwing last game but BoB seems to have issues adjusting the scheme to make something work. There were a lot of points left on the field in that last game both by Watson and by BoB.
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Its not a matter of smartness to run the offensive scheme. Its accuracy and confidence really. I could put up the highlights of last weeks game alone and show & prove some of the subtle things that the scheme & plays being called are doing to help DW4...but folks with agendas don't want to hear that..they just want BoB gone b/c they're convinced those things within the scheme aren't being done. They have good reason to want BoB gone... His game management is atrocious. But the scheme? no its not really that. You could argue that you'd like to see more of some of the things i see when watching them play but ultimately, DW4 has to make the scheme go by utilizing what the scheme is providing.
 
This team is unable to function smoothly.....I am no expert in football but I do recognize when a team seems to be hollow offensively.....they just aren't solid. There is no foundation, Offensively. I am not a believer any more. We have wasted and are wasting great players on both sides of the ball.
 
ObsiWan said:
Watson himself said he had a sucky game. That, I think, is a good thing. CnnnD said Watson was seen working on long throws with his QB coach. So they know work needs to be done. And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
He should.
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He missed some outs in the 10-15 yd range.
 
Mr teX said:
Its not a matter of smartness to run the offensive scheme. Its accuracy and confidence really. I could put up the highlights of last weeks game alone and show & prove some of the subtle things that the scheme & plays being called are doing to help DW4...but folks with agendas don't want to hear that..they just want BoB gone b/c they're convinced those things within the scheme aren't being done. They have good reason to want BoB gone... His game management is atrocious. But the scheme? no its not really that. You could argue that you'd like to see more of some of the things i see when watching them play but ultimately, DW4 has to make the scheme go by utilizing what the scheme is providing.
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Exactly

There were plenty of plays there to be made that didn't get made. I wonder if BOB was using the WC offense (Like so many seem to want) if Watson still would still have bad games?
 
CPTTexan said:
That EP system for Brady is tailored to Brady. Therein lies the problem. Bill O'Brien isn't intelligent enough to modify his system to the most talented QB we've ever had.
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Ding ding ding!
We have a winner.

ObsiWan said:
And I don't remember Watson missing many short passes so I don't have a problem with him working on long/intermediate throws.
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The only short passes he misses are the ones he doesn't throw to wide open check downs.
 
Mr teX said:
Its not a matter of smartness to run the offensive scheme. Its accuracy and confidence really. I could put up the highlights of last weeks game alone and show & prove some of the subtle things that the scheme & plays being called are doing to help DW4...but folks with agendas don't want to hear that..they just want BoB gone b/c they're convinced those things within the scheme aren't being done. They have good reason to want BoB gone... His game management is atrocious. But the scheme? no its not really that. You could argue that you'd like to see more of some of the things i see when watching them play but ultimately, DW4 has to make the scheme go by utilizing what the scheme is providing.
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I would definitely appreciate something like this. I like to consider myself a student of the game, and understanding BOBs offense is something I struggle with.
 
Max said:
3 targets for Duke Johnson is gross negligence
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Gross negligence is putting it mildly. Duke has 12 targets, TWELVE, in the four games played. My math ain't exceptional but that is 3 per game on average. From the words of OB on the trade to get Duke, "this guy is something special in the passing game." Paraphrasing of course, but everyone knows this....except OB, apparently. 8 receptions for 77 yards.

Earl34 said:
stay in the shotgun formation 90% of the time.
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This is maddening. Get under center and run the ball down some damn throats! Quit trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

frethack said:
There is so much speed and talent on the offense now that there are no excuses
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Truth. These guys should score 21 getting off the bus.

And the lack of the TE's in the passing game still drives me crazy. Four games and 16 catches between Akins and Fells. 16 catches!?!
 
steelbtexan said:
The biggest difference is Brady > Watson.

BTW, you do know the Pats gameplan for their opponets each week. Just like the Texans do. Go back and read BB's thoughts on this when the Texans played the Pats when Os was here.
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Brady is better than Watson? You don't say? Any more insights for us Captain Obvious?

Every single team....all 32 of them....game plan for their opponent. That is not at all what I am speaking about. The DIFFERENCE between BB and OB (as if there are any valid similarities - 1 is a legendary coach and the other is Bill O'Brien) is that BB(Josh McDaniels/Brady) use the game plan to focus on the Pats using offensive strengths against their opponents weaknesses. They tailor their offense to get what the defense gives them. If it's not working, they make adjustments. Doesn't always work....but their stellar record over the last 20 years says they are doing something right. The Texans on the other hand focus on the defenses weaknesses and tries to game plan their offense to attempt to exploit said defense.

I know that seems like I'm saying the same thing, but it's the very subtle difference of always using your strengths to exploit weaknesses versus attempt to using their weaknesses to figure out what strength you are using any given week.

Here's another HUGE difference between the 2 coaches: 1 uses a competent OC to game plan and call plays while mainly leaving the offense to do its thing (He also does this with the defense mostly, although he'll speak up when needed, which is more his thing)....while the other micromanages EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the offense. Bill O'Brien so badly wants to emulate the Patriots....yet isn't doing anything that the Patriots actually do to be a successful franchise.
 
CPTTexan said:
Brady is better than Watson? You don't say? Any more insights for us Captain Obvious?

Every single team....all 32 of them....game plan for their opponent. That is not at all what I am speaking about. The DIFFERENCE between BB and OB (as if there are any valid similarities - 1 is a legendary coach and the other is Bill O'Brien) is that BB(Josh McDaniels/Brady) use the game plan to focus on the Pats using offensive strengths against their opponents weaknesses. They tailor their offense to get what the defense gives them. If it's not working, they make adjustments. Doesn't always work....but their stellar record over the last 20 years says they are doing something right. The Texans on the other hand focus on the defenses weaknesses and tries to game plan their offense to attempt to exploit said defense.

I know that seems like I'm saying the same thing, but it's the very subtle difference of always using your strengths to exploit weaknesses versus attempt to using their weaknesses to figure out what strength you are using any given week.

Here's another HUGE difference between the 2 coaches: 1 uses a competent OC to game plan and call plays while mainly leaving the offense to do its thing (He also does this with the defense mostly, although he'll speak up when needed, which is more his thing)....while the other micromanages EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of the offense. Bill O'Brien so badly wants to emulate the Patriots....yet isn't doing anything that the Patriots actually do to be a successful franchise.
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Or 1 coach has Brady and the other coach has Watson

Both HC's are trying to accomplish the same things. It's really not that hard to understand. You sure did alot of typing to point out something that's very obvious.

Maybe you're one of those guys that just has to be right. In this case you're right, in fact we both are. Difference is you're trying to say that they aren't doing the same things when they are, one just has a QB that's done it for 20 yrs vs a QB that's done it for 2 yrs. This is the learning curve for Watson I've been talking about.
 
TheKDog said:
So then how many good plays did Watson make?
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Not many, but there was a couple of short passes to Hyde where he took what the defense gave him and Hyde broke a couple of tackles for a good gain. He hit Duke with a good pass and the pass that Stills got hurt on was on time and accurate. That's off the top of my head.

It's kinda hard to have many good plays when you only score 10 pts.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not many, but there was a couple of short passes to Hyde where he took what the defense gave him and Hyde broke a couple of tackles for a good gain. He hit Duke with a good pass and the pass that Stills got hurt on was on time and accurate. That's off the top of my head.

It's kinda hard to have many good plays when you only score 10 pts.
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So basically OBrien called maybe 10 good plays the entire game. 6-7 Watson missed and a few more he made.

That's terrible playcalling
 
TheKDog said:
So basically OBrien called maybe 10 good plays the entire game. 6-7 Watson missed and a few more he made.

That's terrible playcalling
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10 plays out of what, 33 pass plays? That doesn't include good running plays.

That's about right for most teams, including 3 missed TD's or large chunk plays. Like I said upthread if even 2 of those 3 plays had been made we wouldn't be having this discussion because the Texans would've won. But the issues would still be there.
 
steelbtexan said:
10 plays out of what, 33 pass plays? That doesn't include good running plays.

That's about right for most teams, including 3 missed TD's or large chunk plays. Like I said upthread if even 2 of those 3 plays had been made we wouldn't be having this discussion because the Texans would've won. But the issues would still be there.
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Lol. No calling good plays 33% of the time is not good
 
TheKDog said:
Lol. No calling good plays 33% of the time is not good
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Not all plays work against a good defense with an inaccurate QB. BTW, this is why I said I thought BOB called a bad game too. What % would you say would be a good number? I mean Watson completed 64% of his passes even with the inaccuracy?
 
steelbtexan said:
Not all plays work against a good defense with an inaccurate QB. BTW, this is why I said I thought BOB called a bad game too. What % would you say would be a good number? I mean Watson completed 64% of his passes even with the inaccuracy?
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I think a good OC calls a good play the majority of the time
 
TheKDog said:
I think a good OC calls a good play the majority of the time
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The majority of plays called are neither good or bad plays. A 3 yd pass is neither a good or bad play.

I'm done here. I've wasted far too much time with you on this.
 
Bwhahaha at one coach having Brady. Please using that crazy example. Brady first three seasons wasn't the Brady we see today. Dude was tasked to micromanage the game back then. He was learning and perfecting his craft.

Oh and I'm not personally attacking anyone.
 
Earl34 said:
So, if Watson is too stupid to learn O'Brien's offense, was Fitzpatrick, Hoyer and Osweiler too stupid? I don't recall you calling Fitzpatrick or Osweiler stupid.
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Fitz and Hoyer ran the offense well to the best of their abilities. They had the best yrs of their career to that point of their careers.

Os was pretty stupid too.
 
Speedy said:
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner.



The only short passes he misses are the ones he doesn't throw to wide open check downs.
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Agreed, BOB should tailor a system to what Watson does well and that obviously ain't the EP system.

He looked pretty good those 1st 7 games.
 
steelbtexan said:
Cheap bastards

In a way I hope Watson gets his f'n neck broken and they all fall flat on their faces.

I thought I would add that this is not an indictment of Watson.

You get what you pay for.

Not a damn thing has changed down on Kirby
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Texansballer74 said:
Steelbtexan went from protecting Watson at all cost to lets run him in the ground until he gets hurt.

Now Watson is on this man's hit list. Why the change of heart?

Still no accountability for Bill O'brien. You're still giving this horrible coach a pass.
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He never wanted Watson in the first place. He wanted to draft a below average OLineman instead. He has wanted Watson's neck to be broken since the second they didn't overpay for Trent Brown. Now that BOB has made his dreams come true by burning up 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks in one off season to lock the OLine in as below average, Watson (and Rick Smith) are to blame for everything.
 
I’ve read a lot of talk about Watson not being able to run OB’s offense. What exactly is OB’s offense? Serious question. We’re not balanced. We run first, poorly, which makes us a pass team, but we can’t really protect our wizard of a QB. What exactly is the offense that the guru of offenses has installed?
 
steelbtexan said:
Fitz and Hoyer ran the offense well to the best of their abilities. They had the best yrs of their career to that point of their careers.

Os was pretty stupid too.
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“Too”? You’re surprising me right now. You’ve placed yourself squarely into the same category as KarlK, our not so friendly troll.

Watson has started less than 2 full seasons in the NFL. He’s had some ups and downs, not unlike other QB’s starting out in their careers. It’s absolutely premature to label Watson stupid.
 
santo said:
Foster helped out Fitz when he was here and Hoyer had a decent OL. OBs offense has been regressing since.
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But they scored the 2nd most pts in franchise history.

I've said in many posts what I think BOB should do.
 
TheKDog said:
They did that with Watson despite OBrien
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Of course they did.

BOB was a drooling mouth breater on the sideline and Toro was calling the plays.

Why is it with you when something good happens it's all Watson and when something bad happens it's all BOB.
 
steelbtexan said:
Of course they did.

BOB was a drooling mouth breater on the sideline and Toro was calling the plays.

Why is it with you when something good happens it's all Watson and when something bad happens it's all BOB.
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Yes that's true. Most good plays have come off schedule
 
Mollywhopper said:
Garnder Minshew has 106.9 qbrating and 7-1 td/int ration this year.

And his HC and head of football operations are obvious football conservatives.

The Jock Strap King obviously can't be destroyed.
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Maybe because Minshew actually has a head coach worth a damn? Put Minshew in O’Brien’s non-scheme, rocket science of a system, and he’d probably look like the 20 QBs O’Brien used from 2014-2017. Coaching matters!
 
Mangler said:
Maybe because Minshew actually has a head coach worth a damn? Put Minshew in O’Brien’s non-scheme, rocket science of a system, and he’d probably look like the 20 QBs O’Brien used from 2014-2017. Coaching matters!
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Lol, so the Blake Bortles whisperer is the difference now..

Ok.
 
Earl34 said:
For the last couple of responses, you have been passive aggressively pushing this narrative and insulting the kid’s intelligence.

Quit ***** footing around and playing coy. Are you claiming Watson is too stupid to run O’Brien’s precious EP system?
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I think a huge part of the problem is Watson's ability to translate what he sees & expects from the LOS.

Not saying the kid is not intelligent to operate the offense, but he struggled Sunday.

Another thing I forgot to take into account is the season is still early. We haven't defined who we are, or what we want to do. Over the next four weeks I expect that identity to take shape. Come November I hope we'll all feel we have a contender in Houston.
 
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