HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
No, but saying 'breh' is like beginning to say 'breast' then throat-chopped mid word
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Does either Yates or Keenum give you a better chance to win that Schaub.
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
No, but saying 'breh' is like beginning to say 'breast' then throat-chopped mid word
I keep wanting to say Brey....
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
It's funny, the people who think Kevin Sumlin is a gimmicky offensive guru think Keenum gives us the best chance to win.
Yates won that competition, tight as it was. And the difference is Yates has faced the heat of the regular season and the playoffs before and Keenum never has.
I think Keenum shows a lot of promise, but the people thinking he'll be our savior need to cool it down a little bit. Neither of them are going to end up being the next Tom Brady for us.
Yates won that competition, tight as it was. And the difference is Yates has faced the heat of the regular season and the playoffs before and Keenum never has.
I think Keenum shows a lot of promise, but the people thinking he'll be our savior need to cool it down a little bit. Neither of them are going to end up being the next Tom Brady for us.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
In Hawaii!
Keenum > Schaub and Yates
Breh > Brah
Breh is the new Brah.
breh.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I dont think Case can perform during the season as he did in preseason. Its possible but I dont think it is likely
Come On Breh
Waterboy
why not?
he performed in college where he was a record setting quarterback. He performed very well in preseason. I think its very likely that he performs in the regular season.
Whether it was first string or second string, preseason or regular season, those were where NFL caliber throws that keenum was making.
Its not like schaub set the bar so high in houston that any change can never come close to schaub's pro bowl legend's level.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Because in college he performed in an offense so unlike any in the pro game that those performances and numbers cannot be compared to an NFL game. Hell, if you really want a Sumlin quarterback that much, lets just tank the season and get Manziel. That guy lit up the SEC, all Keenum did was light up C-USA lol.
As far as the preseason goes, there's less pressure for him to be facing. I don't think he survives a whole season with the first string defense of every NFL team facing him. I don't believe his good preseason translates to the regular season.
Don't get me wrong, he looked good in the preseason. I have my reservations about him doing good in the regular season.
Lets be honest, though. If Kubiak benches Schaub, you know it'll be Yates suiting up unless he gets injured.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Case put up tons of numbers in college in a conf that wasnt elite so there has to be an adjustment to the jock hugging. Those nfl caliber throws certainly change in a real game and you should be well aware of the difference between the preseason non starters playing and a third string QB coming into a regular game. Food for thought Case couldnt beat out TJ for the second spot but some how the eye test you and others are putting him on is a bit out there
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Who you callin' a DUMB-ASS...DUMB-ASS?!
Now damn it Bill, go to practice already you have a game Sunday.
Scooter
Funky
i need only 2 plays to pick keenum. the first is the rainmaker that he dropped to jean against the dolphins. exactly in stride 40 yards down the sideline for a touchdown. that thing couldnt have been more perfect. i havent seen schaub complete that pass or a better one in his time here.
the other is the designed sneak. sure it didnt go for much, but kubiak was willing to spread the defense and let keenum try to make something. that's a playcall that schaub wont get outside of goalline situations, if even then.
the other is the designed sneak. sure it didnt go for much, but kubiak was willing to spread the defense and let keenum try to make something. that's a playcall that schaub wont get outside of goalline situations, if even then.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I'm a big fan of Case's but I agree with everything you say! Not to mention preseason defenses are usually fairly vanilla and don't really try to disguise what is that they are trying to do.
****************
BTW, here is a short list of other "record setting" QB's:
Colt Brennan
David Klingler
Timmy Chang
BJ Symons
My favorite one was the one where the texans are in their own end zone and Keenum makes a great pass for the first down.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
Keenum was torching defenses before sumlin got there. Sumlin actually ruined Keenum's ending with his stupidity.
ahhhh yes the old he played in a inferior conference argument that has been debunked several times already.
How many superbowls have Colt McCoy, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Christian Ponder and Cam Newton have won or even played in because they played in major conferences?
Yea, Case doesnt stand a chance.
Just like Kurt Warner, undrafted Northern Iowa
Just like Ben Rothlisberger, Miami OH
Just like Brett Farve, Southern Mississippi
Just like Doug Williams, Grambling
Just like Phil Sims, Morehead State
Just like Steve Mcnair, Alcorn State
Just like Rich Gannon, Delaware
I can keep going.
smdh....
and lol at keenum not beating out a 3 year qb with regular and playoff season reps compared to keenum who was undrafted and had zero experience.
anybody with a brain knows keenum either outplayed or played yates to a draw.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Who you callin' a DUMB-ASS...DUMB-ASS?!
Think about it in my terms:
In order for me to take a snap from under center I would be required to set my adult beverage down and that my friend ain't gonna happen.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
ahhhh yes the old he played in a inferior conference argument that has been debunked several times already.
How many superbowls have Colt McCoy, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Christian Ponder and Cam Newton have won or even played in because they played in major conferences?
Yea, Case doesnt stand a chance.
Just like Kurt Warner, undrafted Northern Iowa
Just like Ben Rothlisberger, Miami OH
Just like Brett Farve, Southern Mississippi
Just like Doug Williams, Grambling
Just like Phil Sims, Morehead State
Just like Steve Mcnair, Alcorn State
Just like Rich Gannon, Delaware
I can keep going.
smdh....
Shake your head and get plenty of sand in your crack. He was in a weak conf so the numbers he put up are/were inflated. Also you ignore the fact college football or preseason NFL is nothing like the regular season.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
he still put up the numbers just like those super bowl winning qbs i listed who didnt play in majors. i mean you have to have some kind of talent to put up those numbers do you? Add in his great preseason play its not unreasonable to expect some kind of competency from him if given the chance.
I mean, where do you think nfl players come from? they come from college football. not regular season nfl games.
yates has 3 years experience along with regular and playoff reps, yet he couldnt distance himself from the undersized, rookie undrafted qb.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Keenum was torching defenses before sumlin got there. Sumlin actually ruined Keenum's ending with his stupidity.
ahhhh yes the old he played in a inferior conference argument that has been debunked several times already.
How many superbowls have Colt McCoy, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Christian Ponder and Cam Newton have won or even played in because they played in major conferences?
Yea, Case doesnt stand a chance.
Just like Kurt Warner, undrafted Northern Iowa
Just like Ben Rothlisberger, Miami OH
Just like Brett Farve, Southern Mississippi
Just like Doug Williams, Grambling
Just like Phil Sims, Morehead State
Just like Steve Mcnair, Alcorn State
Just like Rich Gannon, Delaware
I can keep going.
smdh....
and lol at keenum not beating out a 3 year qb with regular and playoff season reps compared to keenum who was undrafted and had zero experience.
anybody with a brain knows keenum either outplayed or played yates to a draw.
This U of H homerism is horrible.
Here are some of the winners from the 25 superbowls past.
Tom Brady - Michigan
Aaron Rodgers - Cal
Peyton Manning - Tennessee
John Elway - Stanford
Joe Montana (who you make Keenum comparisons to) - Notre Dame
Troy Aikman - UCLA
So I can just spit names there and it doesn't make a difference.
The fact of the matter is we do not know how Keenum will hold up until he plays with the 1s against the 1s of the opposing defense.
Torching the defense of the C-USA doesn't impress me at all. Hooray, you wrecked UAB. Congratulations.
In college, they don't play with the speed they do in the NFL. CBs & LBs don't close those holes as fast as they do in the NFL.
Same in the preseason. Those guys aren't playing 100% unless they were playing NCAA football the year before.... meaning not NFL quality.
Another difference, NFL stands for Not for Long. You're either getting it done or you're not. Schaub has 7 years of good-faith built up, so he can throw a pick six, or tow, or even three & he's still the starter. Joe Blow from the UofH doesn't get that kind of a leash. One bad play may be the end of his career all together.
Case is going to get his time. Pray that he's ready when he does.
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
I would point out is that our other 2 QB options on the roster both hail from the Atlantic Coast Conference.... A REAL NCAA football powerhouse conference!
Whatever the conference, it's meaningless. It's what you do in the now....
What's happening NOW?
I like the notion of Yates or Keenum being paraded out as the starter while Schaub holds that clipboard. Even if for a quarter, or a game. He's so quick to yank a RB and sit him after a fumble. Let's hope 4 straight games with a pick 6 is his limit for QB's? At worst, I'd lay money down that given the task, either TJ or Case could match 3 straight. So at best, Kubes seemingly has nothing to lose. At worst, it turns out that Kubes can continue with his "it's on me" speeches.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I never said the kid didnt have talent but I have zero expectation that he can play as well as he did in college or preseason during a regular season game, zero. Throwing out names of past or present players in the nfl doesnt do anything to help your case as I could post a long list of good college QB who didnt do squat in the NFL. Yates clearly did enough not to give up the second spot. If Case was the next coming of Jesus he would have been drafted by someone or at least outperformed Yates to a point where he took the second spot. Dont talk to me about Yates' experiance because college kids come in a start all the time so taking a backup roll isnt out of the question
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
The difference is that Yates has won (and lost, too) in the NFL. He knows the speed of the regular game. That, and he played in a pro system at North Carolina. He knows it better than Keenum does at this stage.
But I agree, I'll take either of them out there. I just think TJ gives us a better chance of winning. Case just has that "hungry" factor going for him, and we all wanna cheer for an underdog but I'll take whichever of them is better for our team. In my personal opinion, that's TJ.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
The conf doesnt really matter all that much until you start to try and use it as a leverage point to justify your opinion. You cant say "He put up big numbers in college, set records so I think he can perform on gameday in the NFl"
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Awww damn it Bill it's for the team!
I understand the frustration, but let's not "hope" to see another pick six thrown by one of our QBs for a few years.
Heck, I'd bench him if a ball gets batted down, sails high, floats... won't happen.
So I'll lower my expectations. If he throws another interception, I want the headphones to hit the floor. I want the Denny's menu in the second row. I want Kubiak to grab that facemask & yank on it a couple dozen times.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
you're doing the same exact thing. You're leveraging the fact that keenum didnt play in major, was undrafted as to why you dont like him. I just gave examples of players who didnt play in majors and had great success in the nfl.
hypocrite.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I am not doing the samething. I said his numbers are inflated because of where he played and they are. If he played in a stronger conf his number would not be as good.
Guess what his college numbers dont meant sh!t in the nfl and niether do his preseason numbers against 2nd and 3rds and a host of players that arent playing in the nfl any longer. I dont think you know what hypocrite means brah
PAGING GRAM HARRELL
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
If you're giving examples, be sure to show how Keenum is in any way, shape, or form, like Ben Rapistberger, Kurt Warner, or Brett Farve.
Come on. If you think Keenum is even close to their talent level, you have to give me the number of your pot dealer. He's got some good isht.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just put the container on Myers' back and tell him not to straighten up and your drink should be fine. Just make sure you keep the full back in to block.
Trail.Blazr
Hooked up to a Kool-Aid IV
I'm with you. I'm not hoping for one. I was insinuating that 3 is not the limit, so is it 4? I pray we don't find out. And if we do, my money is on it NOT being the limit.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
yea you are a hypocrite. i never said just because he put up record setting numbers in college that he's gonna break records like peyton in the nfl.
never said that.
what i said was that he put up record setting numbers in college which has to require some kind of athletic and quarterbacking talent, and you add the fact that he played great during preseason, showed great ability to make big time throws and eventaully made the 53 man roster, stands to reason he has a chance to be a competent nfl qb in the regular season.
unlike you who doesnt even want to give the man a chance and expects nothing out of him if he even got a chance.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Case is the FBS leader in career passing yards (I assume those are at least some of the "numbers" you're talking about). Here's the other nine guys in the top 10:
- Timmy Chang
- Landry Jones
- Graham Harrell
- Ty Detmer
- Kellen Moore
- Colt Brennan
- Phillip Rivers
- Colt McCoy
- Kevin Kolb
So in terms of NFL level talent, the answer to your bolded question is obviously "No, no you don't".
And to all you Case Fan boys, this doesn't mean I believe it's a given Case is going to fail in the NFL. I think he's got a chance to succeed, and I hope he does (and you won't find any of my posting history to the contrary). I just don't feel it's a given, and I feel like for the 2013 season, Matt still gives us a better chance to win than either Case or TJ.
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HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Come On Breh
Waterboy
wrong.
i was specifically talking about keenum's situation not those other guys. timmy chang in particular was very talented but was never given a chance because he was asian and due to institutional racism in the nfl.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
If you're specifically talking about Keenum, stop trying to draw comparisons to Ben Roethlisberger, Kurt Warner, or Brett Farve.
If you're arguing stats, his post wasn't wrong, it was dead on the money.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
you clearly are a hypocrite and im pretty sure im smarter than you.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Come On Breh
Waterboy
another one who cant read.
i wasnt comparing keenum the player to those guys. i was comparing their status of not playing in a major conference in college but they ended up being successful nfl qbs.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Good grief.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
So if you're talking about Case's current situation, what do the numbers he put up in the past have to do with anything?
Come On Breh
Waterboy
you dont think there's institutional racism in the nfl?
i mean we are talking about a league where they force nfl owners to interview black candidates(rooney rule).
good grief.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
your answer is in the thread. ive already addressed this.
im not gonna baby you and wipe your butt for you the way kubiak does with schaub.
figure it out for yourself.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
In all honesty, none of us can truly answer this question. We don't know how they're performing in practice, the film room, meetings, or how much of the playbook they understand. And with Case, we have no idea how he'll perform against a starting NFL defense for 4 quarters, with defensive coordinators scouting him to find his weaknesses. We have no idea how he'll perform on the big stage when games matter.
So alot of you would come back and say, "Who cares? Put them in, see what we got, it can't be any worse!" It could actually get ALOT worse! We're actually having no problems moving the ball on offense. We just gained like 450+ yards on the league's so-called best defense! We are just making a couple of dumb mistakes a game.
It's a lot safer route to try to fix those few mistakes, rather than gamble with a whole new QB.
If playoffs ever get out of the picture, that's the only time I think it's a good idea to bring in Yates or Keenum.
So alot of you would come back and say, "Who cares? Put them in, see what we got, it can't be any worse!" It could actually get ALOT worse! We're actually having no problems moving the ball on offense. We just gained like 450+ yards on the league's so-called best defense! We are just making a couple of dumb mistakes a game.
It's a lot safer route to try to fix those few mistakes, rather than gamble with a whole new QB.
If playoffs ever get out of the picture, that's the only time I think it's a good idea to bring in Yates or Keenum.
Come On Breh
Waterboy
just look at the poll results.
good grief.
good grief.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
The odd lot theory applies here. Also maybe less intelligent people can draw the connection between case, uofh, the texans and this poll.
Good grief brah
Come On Breh
Waterboy
Sure, we have to take into account the lesser talent level that Keenum faced in college.
That's why when I evaluated him, I did these things:
1. I evaluated games he played against better defenses, like Alabama, UCLA, S. Miss, Penn St., Miss St., Oregon, TCU, E. Carolina (the years they had good defense under Skip Holtz, who had been with major teams like ND, Fla St, S. Car., and won multi C-USA championships.)
2. I evaluated games he played against common opponents in the same year with drafted QBs like Luck, RG III, Weeden, Ponder, etc.)
3. I evaluated his O-line play; for example, against UCLA in 2011, he was under pressure some 24-25 times as compared to 4 by Luck.
UH played UCLA early in the year, while Stanford played UCLA late, when the Bruins suffered some injuries in the secondary.
On the details, I check to see:
1. How fast does the ball leaves his hand on a 10-yd route, an intermediate route between 15-22 yards, a deep route of 30-40 yards as compared to other QBs from the same formation, running the same or a similar play.
(In his Fr year, the Cougars did run a small but significant number of plays out of the traditional I formation with 2 backs and a TE. They did run a few bootleg out of the PA just like the Texans have been doing.)
In the spread, Keenum got the ball out a hair faster than RG III, and much quicker than Weeden, for example.
2. How good is his presnap read. Can he reads defense and find the open receiver against that particular defense.
Does he recognize a potential blitzer and counter the D-call, making the aggressors pay for their aggressiveness.
3. On the post-snap read, can he recognize the disguises of the defense so as not to make stupid mistakes like Schaub has been doing on a consistent basis.
4. Does he understand his own protection scheme; for example, when the QB has max-protect (let say 7 blockers against 4), he can afford to stay in the pocket longer, and not having happy feet, or panic too soon.
When he has one-on-one protection, it means that his five weapons would also have single coverage (plus a single safety deep), the QB wants to find the mis-match .
There are a whole lot more nuances than just those things.
I took Bill Walsh's manual for things that he wants when evaluating a QB, and apply it, basically.
I rated Keenum more highly than Kolb or Ware (at the same moment in time before their respective draft period.)
So, there you have it; a few things in my thought process when I try to evaluate a QB for the draft.
That's why when I evaluated him, I did these things:
1. I evaluated games he played against better defenses, like Alabama, UCLA, S. Miss, Penn St., Miss St., Oregon, TCU, E. Carolina (the years they had good defense under Skip Holtz, who had been with major teams like ND, Fla St, S. Car., and won multi C-USA championships.)
2. I evaluated games he played against common opponents in the same year with drafted QBs like Luck, RG III, Weeden, Ponder, etc.)
3. I evaluated his O-line play; for example, against UCLA in 2011, he was under pressure some 24-25 times as compared to 4 by Luck.
UH played UCLA early in the year, while Stanford played UCLA late, when the Bruins suffered some injuries in the secondary.
On the details, I check to see:
1. How fast does the ball leaves his hand on a 10-yd route, an intermediate route between 15-22 yards, a deep route of 30-40 yards as compared to other QBs from the same formation, running the same or a similar play.
(In his Fr year, the Cougars did run a small but significant number of plays out of the traditional I formation with 2 backs and a TE. They did run a few bootleg out of the PA just like the Texans have been doing.)
In the spread, Keenum got the ball out a hair faster than RG III, and much quicker than Weeden, for example.
2. How good is his presnap read. Can he reads defense and find the open receiver against that particular defense.
Does he recognize a potential blitzer and counter the D-call, making the aggressors pay for their aggressiveness.
3. On the post-snap read, can he recognize the disguises of the defense so as not to make stupid mistakes like Schaub has been doing on a consistent basis.
4. Does he understand his own protection scheme; for example, when the QB has max-protect (let say 7 blockers against 4), he can afford to stay in the pocket longer, and not having happy feet, or panic too soon.
When he has one-on-one protection, it means that his five weapons would also have single coverage (plus a single safety deep), the QB wants to find the mis-match .
There are a whole lot more nuances than just those things.
I took Bill Walsh's manual for things that he wants when evaluating a QB, and apply it, basically.
I rated Keenum more highly than Kolb or Ware (at the same moment in time before their respective draft period.)
So, there you have it; a few things in my thought process when I try to evaluate a QB for the draft.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
says the guy who is internet friends with gary.
Says the insecure mb member
Come On Breh
Waterboy
lol at insecure. maybe i should send a friend request to gary so i wouldnt be so insecure.
keep back pedaling and moving the goal posts.