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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner
- Thread starter Hottoddie
- Start date
Wow, I can think of several more disappointing picks. Peppers>Carr, oKoYe sucking. Travis Johnson < Aaron Rodgers, I wanted the pick to be Derrick Johnson etc... Charles Hill drafted in the 3rd and never playing a down in the NFL. Charles Spencer's promising career cut short. Tony Hollins/Tony Boselli.
And the beat goes on.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Honestly, once they drafted Carr, they had to ride it out for at least 4 years because of the rookie signing bonus. In todays rookie cap era, you don't have to ride out a rookie top pick contract.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Again, the old rookie contracts prohibited moving off a top 5 pick so early. You couldn't pick Carr in 02 and Ben in 04 and that's why teams that say bpa is false narrative. Even 05 with Rodgers vs Johnson, but aren't you the same trench guy on this forum? What happened to the trench guy vs the qb? Neither Rodgers nor Ben had protection from the oline those years or am I tripping?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Can anyone name the 49ers corners and tell me how they graded out as draft picks? I will wait.
I just know that they had drafted well and/or they develop them well.
That reminds me of Rick Smith's ability to find good DB.
Not that he's perfect, but he did better than the Patriots in the same period.
From FA like Jack Reeves, Allen, Manning, JoJo, Eugene Wilson, Pollard, Demps, to draft picks like Quinn, KJax, Swearinger, Fred Bennett, Shilo Keo, to UDFA like A J Bouye.
His background as a DB really showed.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Have you seen how Dillard has turned out?
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Turns out we dodged a bullet.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
If you listen to posters, he missed all his middle round picks. The one they should've kept behind Bouye was Quinn. Quinn was a really good player and was a late round pick. Robinson was a good cb also but somehow he got away also. Swearinger somehow had good years elsewhere also.
Money is always part of the equation.
The main thing is that he was able to identify good prospects/FAs that did not break the bank.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Ben Jones and Brooks were the heir apparent but OB ran Brooks off and Jones wasn't big enough for BOB Big 10 oline profile. Ben Jones has been miles better than anything the Texans have had playing center. These are facts.
I would credit the offensive line to Kubiak and Alex Gibbs.
Yes, Rick Smith and the scouting staff did a good job looking for these guys to present them to Gibbs and Kubiak.
Gibbs we're with the Texans for only two years though; a lot of credit should go to Kubiak.
Newton, a 7th round pick, was good enough that OB kept him.
Only injury cut short his career.
For a 7th Rd pick, Newton was great value.
The Steelers were a SB ready team when Ben was drafted.
Rodgers took over from Favre, so there was definitely talent there.
It wasn't a talent issue, it was about the money. Rookie contracts were impossible to get out of back then
Nothing you listed tops drafting a player at 1.3 with poor production and significant injury history over a player at the same position with the lights out production of Gardner.
The Texans got a player who will log more hours in the training room than on the field and the Jets got a shut-down cornerback who will be an impact player on the field for the next 10+ years.
It was an absolute no-brainer to draft Gardner and the Jets laughed all the way to the bank with that pick.
Once OB joined the team, it's kind of hard to tell where Smith missed and OB's staff just couldn't develop players. During the Kubiak years, Smith definitely missed on a lot of picks.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
You’ll never convince them otherwise. Most still in denial, others hoping it turns around or worse wish the same fate on another player.
In the big picture, they fret over these average players, in hindsight, while we’re talking about the top graded player in the 2022 class who is still ascending to even greater things.
Even if those other picks were misses and should have pulled more starters over period of time, none of them are as big of miss as whiffing on a franchise, superstar.
You don't get over an injury like Stingley suffered. I guess you've missed the extensive posts by @CloakNNNdagger regarding the chronic, degenerative nature of a lis franc injury. That injury will definitely affect the long-term play of Stingley and the compensatory injuries, due to it, will affect his short-term effectiveness and ability to stay on the field.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
That a possible diagnosis based on reports.
Think I'll wait until we know for sure.
I get ya. It just sucks that Texans fans are having to wait to know for sure. I wonder how far he would've fallen if the Texans hadn't drafted him.
If Smith was missing in the Kubiak yrs, you can bet he was missing during the BOB yrs. He was calling the shots. Look at the pic when he drafted Derrick as an example of this.
Cal should have forced Cooks/Mills to be inactive.
I'm just hoping Stingley turns into a top 10 CB.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Yeah that Hopkins trade blew.
I'm talking about drafts. Can't do much about teams jumping ahead of you in the draft. I'm sure you'd be able to see into the future and know exactly who to trade up with and how much to give up, though.
The Hopkins trade was 100% on OB.
Who is this Derrick you keep ranting about?
If you believe in a guy you trade up and get your guy. RS didn't want to give up an extra 3rd to get Mahomes. It's the biggest single blunder in the franchises history. Not wanting to give up a 3rd rd pick for Mahomes lead to drafting Derrick which lead to where they're at today.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
That was pretty disappointing to me at the time. I was thinking the Texans were going OT, but somehow Derrick Johnson dropped to them. I was really excited for about 2 minutes...then Casserly traded down 3 spots. Derrick went to the Chiefs right in front of the Texans pick @ #16. Then the Texans took another Johnson, Travis.
That was a huge bummer.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Zach Wilson deserves to be thrown under the bus. Just being genuine. Otherwise they all look up to him, even veterans that’s unbelievable for a rookie. He holds his composure after tough losses, answers questions, tries his best to raise level of teammates but there’s always one who just doesn’t get it.
Whenever these 20/20 hindsight discussion comes up. Things are conveniently left out. For example. Who was expecting Mahomes to go that high? Far less overpay for him? You're the draft guru. Find one draft profile that had Mahomes as the top QB in his draft class or had him as a sure fire prospect. Also, there are absolutely no guarantees that Mahomes would be Mahomes playing in BOB's ED offense. Coaching matters and Mahomes playing for one of the NFL's greatest offensive mind is often ignored in his greatness.
Even Mahomes admitted after sitting for a year that he didn't start reading defenses until his third year. Tyrek Hill said during Mahomes rookie training camp and practices, he looked like "trash". Even with Aaron Rodgers. Hindsighters forget that while he was sitting behind Favre, the coaching staff totally revamped his mechanics and throwing motion. If Rodgers goes to a Jeff Fisher type team who wants their QBs to be game managers. Does he become Rodgers? Coaching matters. Sometimes, the stars are aligned and you get a perfect match of QB, HC/OC and team. That is Mahomes and Reid.
Patrick Mahomes Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com
"He's got a great arm, big balls and he's mobile. He is going to drive his head coach crazy for the first couple of years and there is no getting around that. If it clicks for him and he's coachable, I think he could become a special quarterback." - NFC executive
WalterFootball.com: 2017 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Pat Mahomes
There are plenty of teams in the NFL that are starved for quarterback talent, so Mahomes could rise in the leadup to the 2017 NFL Draft just because of need and desperation. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that Mahomes goes in the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft. Round 2 could be his destination, and he probably won't go any lower than the second round
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wildroot
Veteran
No one, and I mean no one knew Mahomes was going to be what he turned out to be. He was as much a crap shoot as the rest of the QBs picked early that year.
Except it's not hindsight. Corrosion and I said that Mahomes was the guy at the time and that's who BOB wanted as his QB
We did and RS had the opportunity at the time to make the trade Reid did and passed.
BTW, if I was Ryan's I would try to rebuild Zach Wilson this year, before I drafted a QB in this draft. If it didn't work out then draft a QB in 2024. There's less risk involved and it's not like Wilson isn't really talented. How many times have we seen guys. not workout with the team that drafted them and then the QB does well with the team that trades for them.
Except Corrosion/me/BOB.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Yeah.....well-well-well Davis Mills took over the Texans, who were deep dumpster ready, and had Culley/Lovie as HC's and Kelly/Pep as OC's!!!! Turnaround with Super Bowl visits were writings on the wall.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
....and a Johnson where the sun doesn't shine.
Your projection for Stingley could very well turn out to be accurate but lets see what happens their second year in the league but the rookie season was certainly a disappointment for the Texans and a rewarding experience for the Jets.
No-brainer ? Yes sir one year in that clearly appears to be the case.
No disrespect intended. But no one is paying attention or cares about draft selections of anonymous posters making picks on an internet forum for a mediocre NFL team. It's great that you and Corrosion had Mahomes as your favorite QB in that draft when NFL scouts, GMs, HCs, draft experts who get paid for their opinion didn't think he was a sure-fire QB. To this day. I've never read or heard anything from BOB that suggest that Mahomes was his selection or even his type of QB. With BOB QB evaluation skills, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to save the draft picks and select CJ Beathard, Nathan Peterman, or Brad Kaaya.
At the end of the day. Mahomes is a great QB and a HOFer. I still think he would have to overcome BOB stubbornness and ED offense. I still find it ironic that all the things you dislike in QB play like hero ball, holding onto the ball, drifting out of the pocket, street ball and going off script is how Mahomes plays the game. I guess his exceptional arm strength minimizes the mistakes that comes from the things you dislike in QB play.
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I call bullshit
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Thats not being genuine. That’s being a bad teammate.
And it wasn’t only Zach Wilson. It was when a TD was scored on him and he blamed the safety because he didn’t want to look bad.
That’s not leadership. And you don’t criticize your teammates play.
Agree to disagree.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dude Kansas leaped frog the Texans for Patrick Mahomas. That’s why Houston had to move up to get Watson.
wildroot
Veteran
Hell, I guess right about 25% of the time on these draft picks, but I'm wrong the other 75%.
I'm guessing you thought he'd be pretty good, not the all-world QB he's become. If you did, you're in the wrong business Lol!
No disrespect intended CnD reported this and the look in the draft room when Derrick was Drafted tells you all you need to know.
I happen to think BOB is a great developer of QB's, an avg HC and a poor GM. Whether some want to admit it or not he did a great job with Derrick.
There was a deal in place to trade up for Mahomes bur RS didn't want to pay the extra 3rd.
We went over this ad nauseum at the time after seeing the pictures of RS looking like a giddy school child after the Derrick pick and the rest of the room looking like they had collectively been kicked in the nuts. I don't remember if you were a member back then?
I'm in the right business.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
You know what is funny?
People give you a hard time (me included) about saying the same thing over and over again. People get exhausted by it.
But it must be equally exhausting for you when you argue the same point over and over again but the entire board forgets that conversation.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
No RB?