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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

OptimisticTexan said:
If it's a QB come hail or high water.....Hendon Hooker is my choice. He's put up solid games and stats for the last 2 seasons. He was the best QB this season until an injury derailed this season near the end. The good thing about Hooker, the Texans couldn't screw this up even if they tried. He'd be rehabbing his injury in season one, which would give him the best chance of any Texans QB of getting a development season without being thrown under center.
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I'd be ecstatic if Caserio swapped the #1 or #2 overall pick with a team like Atlanta, Carolina or the Colts and ended up with one of Carter/Anderson/Murphy and used Cleveland pick to get Quentin Johnson, a WR1 that is of serious need to this roster. Just think of what that extra #1 in 2024 or 2025 plus an extra #2 and #3 could do to this team.
 
steelbtexan said:
I value him at somewhere mid to late 2nd rd and would trade up to get him.

I'm thinking NFL folks will have him somewhere in the late 3rd, early 4th rd range. But with his prior heart condition, who knows. He reminds me of a more athletic Jimmy G.
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So I'm really looking forward to seeing these college QB & non-QB NFL prospects play this weekend including Young, Duggan, Stroud, and Anderson & Carter since I don't watch that much college ball except when we do get into the college P/Os and bowl games.
I dunno has C&D given us an opinion yet on Duggan's heart condition ? I mean I appreciate that any "heart condition" is serious but lots of folks, especially young people live full and long lives with various cardiovascular issues.
 
Hottoddie said:
Sauce has clearly put up better numbers this year for the Jets. But, since we run Lovie's defensive scheme, which player would've been more successful here? Discounting past & future injury concerns. Who would've had the most success in Lovie's system?
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When Lovie gets fired, they probably won't be running that scheme.

BTW, Jets defense is ranked 3rd in the league. Texans are ranked 30th in team defense. Robert Saleh was on most people's short list in 2021. Did the Texans not interview him because he was a favorite of Watson's? On the other end of this, Culley was on no one's short list, or long list, or in fact any list at all for anything!

Caserio has been a disaster. I argue the Texans would be in a MUCH better position had they hired Saleh as HC. So lets just forget about the scheme Lovie employs. It's not working.
 
banned1976 said:
When Lovie gets fired, they probably won't be running that scheme.

BTW, Jets defense is ranked 3rd in the league. Texans are ranked 30th in team defense. Robert Saleh was on most people's short list in 2021. Did the Texans not interview him because he was a favorite of Watson's? On the other end of this, Culley was on no one's short list, or long list, or in fact any list at all for anything!

Caserio has been a disaster. I argue the Texans would be in a MUCH better position had they hired Saleh as HC. So lets just forget about the scheme Lovie employs. It's not working.
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If you were Saleh would you interview with the 2021 Jets or interview with the 2021 Texans?

Would you even want to be HC of the 2021 Texans or go back to being DC in San Fran.
 
banned1976 said:
He was an intern here at one time. If it were me, I'd love the opportunity and challenge to level up within an organization that gave me a chance years ago under Kubiak.
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I think NFL coaches are going to choose the team that is going to have a better chance to win and not choose one for sentimental reasons.

That’s why I am not surprised the hottest names didn’t bother interviewing here.
 
TexansBull said:
I think NFL coaches are going to choose the team that is going to have a better chance to win and not choose one for sentimental reasons.

That’s why I am not surprised the hottest names didn’t bother interviewing here.
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Still could have interviewed him. Give a man the interview and the right amount of cash, he'll sign on the line that is dotted. They didn't even get through step one of that process.
 
The problem with being a draftnik is they never draft the guy you want. The problem with not watching college ball is you hope they did.

Insert stupid mid round pick here for a tight end we don't play, won't use, and don't need.

Rinse and repeat.
 
powda said:
The problem with being a draftnik is they never draft the guy you want. The problem with not watching college ball is you hope they did.

Insert stupid mid round pick here for a tight end we don't play, won't use, and don't need.

Rinse and repeat.
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Last years draft wasn't a bad draft and I would agree with banned 1976, except do you believe that the McNair's would ever hire a Muslim HC? I don't and interviewing Saleh would have been a waste of time.
 
Lucky said:
They've already hired a Muslim assistant coach (Saleh). Are the McNairs afraid he would breakout a prayer rug in the middle of the 4th quarter?

The things you come up with.
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A Muslim will never be the HC , face of a McNair owned franchise. Say whatever you want about me
 
steelbtexan said:
A Muslim will never be the HC , face of a McNair owned franchise. Say whatever you want about me
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Just curious, how many Muslim coaches are in the NFL? You can say stuff like this until it happens which is unlikely due to the numbers. Like saying a native american will never be HC of the Texans.... or is there more than one coach?
 
Lucky said:
Do you have direct or indirect knowledge of the McNair's Islamophobia? Or are you just making stuff up, again? Like, never draft an ethnic Nigerian.
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You'd think he would say don't ever draft a caucasian christian QB
 
JB said:
Just curious, how many Muslim coaches are in the NFL? You can say stuff like this until it happens which is unlikely due to the numbers. Like saying a native american will never be HC of the Texans.... or is there more than one coach?
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Quoted for truth.
 
Lucky said:
Do you have direct or indirect knowledge of the McNair's Islamophobia? Or are you just making stuff up, again? Like, never draft an ethnic Nigerian.
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I will leave this conversation with this.

It's your prerogative to believe the McNair's will hire a Muslim HC.

It's my prerogative to LMAO at your opinion.

Think about it realistically. That's all that I ask.

Although I could be wrong and Demeco could become the next HC of the Texans after suing the McNair's.
 
steelbtexan said:
I will leave this conversation with this.

It's your prerogative to believe the McNair's will hire a Muslim HC.

It's my prerogative to LMAO at your opinion.

Think about it realistically. That's all that I ask.

Although I could be wrong and Demeco could become the next HC of the Texans after suing the McNair's.
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So you’re just making stuff up. Maybe put that in your signature to remind everyone reading your posts.
 
Lucky said:
So you’re just making stuff up. Maybe put that in your signature to remind everyone reading your posts.
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It's called an opinion based on yrs of evidence in the way the McNair's choose to run their team.

Bury your head in the sand if you wish.
 
Lucky said:
Do you have direct or indirect knowledge of the McNair's Islamophobia? Or are you just making stuff up, again? Like, never draft an ethnic Nigerian.
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I tend to agree with Steel because I personally know more than a few Chrisitians who are rabid about their faith and extremely intolerant towards anybody, and eveybody else who's not on board with their beliefs.
Now I can't claim I know that for a fact but it's my very strong impression for a couple reasons not the least of which was the McNairs wish to hire the goofy, hillbilly, born-again Christian backup QB as their HC.
And then there's the right reverend Jack Easterby
 
Sounds like Stingley wasn’t a fan of Lovie’s defense. His recent likes on Twitter were deleted:

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I’ve changed my opinion on who is responsible for 2022 3rd overall pick in the draft and this surprises even me, it’s the McNairs (w/Jack Easterby in Cal’s ear) selection!

Not inclined to elaborate just know that Caserio reports to them, he recommends options and preferred selection but they ultimately have the power to decide. Have to believe from scouting standpoint, with all due diligence their big board looked something like
A. Hutchinson
B. Gardner
C. Walker
D. Thibodeaux
E. Stingley
Walker went #1 Hutchinson #2 then Texans on the clock.

I’ve seen the Jets war room and they were on pins and needles waiting for Texans selection. No indication of any call either to trade up with Texans or vice versa by Texans to trade down.

I haven’t seen tape of Texans war room. If anyone has, please post.

Caserio acknowledged both Gardner and Thib’s as highly graded, in discussion selection but something happened or changed when it was time to pick. Don’t believe it was Lovie either because in his Tampa 2 zone defense Gardner would have been his choice. Is there any reason why he didn’t change his scheme to fit Stingley thereby infuriating ownership because of his struggles and playing out of position? Guess we’ll have to wait for Lovies book to come out. Know I’m buying a copy when he does. Gardner is even better in zone than press and he led the league in defended passes. He would have been his selection is my guess, but only a guess.

So this one is on ownership or they just don’t understand scouting, medical reports, coaching preferences even opinion of the GM they hired to run the football side of their business.

:koolaid:
 
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beerlover said:
I’ve changed my opinion on who is responsible for 2022 3rd overall pick in the draft and this surprises even me, it’s the McNairs (w/Jack Easterby in Cal’s ear) selection!

Not inclined to elaborate just know that Caserio reports to them, he recommends options and preferred selection but they ultimately have the power to decide. Have to believe from scouting standpoint, with all due diligence their big board looked something like
A. Hutchinson
B. Gardner
C. Walker
D. Thibodeaux
E. Stingley
Walker went #1 Hutchinson #2 then Texans on the clock.

I’ve seen the Jets war room and they were on pins and needles waiting for Texans selection. No indication of any call either to trade up with Texans or vice versa by Texans to trade down.

I haven’t seen tape of Texans war room. If anyone has, please post.

Caserio acknowledged both Gardner and Thib’s as highly graded, in discussion selection but something happened or changed when it was time to pick. Don’t believe it was Lovie either because in his Tampa 2 zone defense Gardner would have been his choice. Is there any reason why he didn’t change his scheme to fit Stingley thereby infuriating ownership because of his struggles and playing out of position? Guess we’ll have to wait for Lovies book to come out. Know I’m buying a copy when he does. Gardner is even better in zone than press and he led the league in defended passes. He would have been his selection is my guess, but only a guess.

So this one is on ownership or they just don’t understand scouting, medical reports, coaching preferences even opinion of the GM they hired to run the football side of their business.

:koolaid:
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You know, at least as much as I hate the fact that the team made a mistake here and a stupid, unnecessary one as well I really hate the fact that nobody will ever just step up and say "That was me. Stingley was my call and I made it happen". Owners who have nothing to fear from anything or anyone.... Won't admit to it. Lovie will never truly come clean and neither will Nick. It will forever be just us speculating but I really want to know which one of them decided to pass on the perfectly good, highly lauded, and totally healthy DB so they could take the other perfectly good, highly lauded, and "totally healthy" DB.
 
I guess this debate will really take off next year with a new coaching staff & defensive system. Depending upon who they bring in, we should get to see the true abilities of Stingley in man coverage. It'll be almost like we drafted a top CB in the 2023 draft.
 
beerlover said:
I’ve changed my opinion on who is responsible for 2022 3rd overall pick in the draft and this surprises even me, it’s the McNairs (w/Jack Easterby in Cal’s ear) selection!
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Yep. I've heard from quite a few sources (before and after the draft) that Sauce was to flashy in his personal style and personality for the Texans.

These owners probably think carbonation is spicy.

I can't blame Nick for any of it when owners meddle and have a convoluted power structure that does not respect the GM position in general.

Hottoddie said:
I guess this debate will really take off next year with a new coaching staff & defensive system. Depending upon who they bring in, we should get to see the true abilities of Stingley in man coverage. It'll be almost like we drafted a top CB in the 2023 draft.
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If he can stay on the field. Serious doubts about that from some very educated people.
 
beerlover said:
So this one is on ownership or they just don’t understand scouting, medical reports, coaching preferences even opinion of the GM they hired to run the football side of their business.
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Who knows what happened? I'm open to just about anything. But why would the McNairs/Easterby go totally against Caserio's board?

McNairs/Easterby don't know these guys from Adam. I could understand if it were a flashy position (edge vs safety) but between 2 CBs I wouldn't think they would have an opinion.

Is there something in particular they liked in Stingley's personality?

Is there something in particular they didn't like in Gardner? But even if they did I'd see them going Thibodeaux based on that board unless there was something they really liked about Stingley.
 
powda said:
The problem with being a draftnik is they never draft the guy you want. The problem with not watching college ball is you hope they did.

Insert stupid mid round pick here for a tight end we don't play, won't use, and don't need.

Rinse and repeat.
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This is a DEEP TE draft So prepare yourself. :whip:
 
thunderkyss said:
Who knows what happened? I'm open to just about anything. But why would the McNairs/Easterby go totally against Caserio's board?

McNairs/Easterby don't know these guys from Adam. I could understand if it were a flashy position (edge vs safety) but between 2 CBs I wouldn't think they would have an opinion.

Is there something in particular they liked in Stingley's personality?

Is there something in particular they didn't like in Gardner? But even if they did I'd see them going Thibodeaux based on that board unless there was something they really liked about Stingley.
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Based on how's he's navigated his 2 drafts in Houston, I don't think Cal or the pastor had anything to do with it. I think Nick was just trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room.
 
beerlover said:
I’ve changed my opinion on who is responsible for 2022 3rd overall pick in the draft and this surprises even me, it’s the McNairs (w/Jack Easterby in Cal’s ear) selection!

Not inclined to elaborate just know that Caserio reports to them, he recommends options and preferred selection but they ultimately have the power to decide. Have to believe from scouting standpoint, with all due diligence their big board looked something like
A. Hutchinson
B. Gardner
C. Walker
D. Thibodeaux
E. Stingley
Walker went #1 Hutchinson #2 then Texans on the clock.

I’ve seen the Jets war room and they were on pins and needles waiting for Texans selection. No indication of any call either to trade up with Texans or vice versa by Texans to trade down.

I haven’t seen tape of Texans war room. If anyone has, please post.

Caserio acknowledged both Gardner and Thib’s as highly graded, in discussion selection but something happened or changed when it was time to pick. Don’t believe it was Lovie either because in his Tampa 2 zone defense Gardner would have been his choice. Is there any reason why he didn’t change his scheme to fit Stingley thereby infuriating ownership because of his struggles and playing out of position? Guess we’ll have to wait for Lovies book to come out. Know I’m buying a copy when he does. Gardner is even better in zone than press and he led the league in defended passes. He would have been his selection is my guess, but only a guess.

So this one is on ownership or they just don’t understand scouting, medical reports, coaching preferences even opinion of the GM they hired to run the football side of their business.

:koolaid:
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.
These were the same comments I was told that Lovie had used in the decision process. Everything about the choice is questionable. When Lovie announced Stingley, he stated that he would use him by always assigning him to the #1 receiver.........he didn't........because of the limitations of pushing off of his left Lisfranc foot when trying to play from the left side. In the Tampa 2, the CB plays near and LOS and immediately bumps the receiver............Lovie played his CBs mostly 10 yds off the LOS. Lovie and other evaluators thought that via his athleticism, Stingley was "scheme versatile." This versatility thus far has been shown to be a overstated.

Why go with Stingley over Gardner?

“I think it’s more about scheme than anything else,” [Eric] Galko said. “Stingley is more scheme-versatile and is such a talented, long press corner. Stingley is a better athlete, but it’s more about playing in different schemes that value athleticism versus Gardner lacking anything. Gardner is an easier projection as a rookie, but Stingley has more upside for the future, in my opinion.”
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link
 
mussop said:
Man I still can’t believe how bad that guy ended up sucking.
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A different team probably gets a different result in all fairness ,and you might've been right about him. I just tend to value te less then most folks. Or at least, I think it should be one of the last pieces added.
 
mussop said:
This debate is over.
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Give it at least 3 years. I will naively hope for a rebound.


(Full transparency- I wanted sauce over sting ,but it was all based on scouting reports I read and not a single game I watched...)
 
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powda said:
Give it at least 3 years. I will naively hope for a rebound.


(Full transparency- I wanted sauce over Gardner ,but it was all based on scouting reports I read and not a single game I watched...)
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oh it can be reopened but for now it’s dead. One guy made all pro the other made a minimal contribution to one of the worst defenses in the league.

I wanted Sauce as well. Just couldn’t justify that high of a pick on someone with injury concerns. I’m still hoping a new coach and scheme will put Stingley back on track.
 
mussop said:
oh it can be reopened but for now it’s dead. One guy made all pro the other made a minimal contribution to one of the worst defenses in the league.

I wanted Sauce as well. Just couldn’t justify that high of a pick on someone with injury concerns. I’m still hoping a new coach and scheme will put Stingley back on track.
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I hear ya. As I posted elsewhere, wtf did we draft a guy #3 overall to play a Tampa 2 and "bracket" wrs? Other teams had success doing that with 4th round dbs.

Sting was severely misused since he's a man coverage corner. I hope he'll have better opportunities to shine with a new defense.
 
powda said:
I hear ya. As I posted elsewhere, wtf did we draft a guy #3 overall to play a Tampa 2 and "bracket" wrs? Other teams had success doing that with 4th round dbs.

Sting was severely misused since he's a man coverage corner. I hope he'll have better opportunities to shine with a new defense.
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100%
 
Speedy said:
Based on how's he's navigated his 2 drafts in Houston, I don't think Cal or the pastor had anything to do with it. I think Nick was just trying to prove he was the smartest guy in the room.
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There is/was nothing smart about disregarding medicals. It had to be novice, empowered person(s) opinion. Nick does not strike me as egotistical. Caserio is a workaholic and a workaholic leaves no stones unturned.
 
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