Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
In college yes.
And that was in his Freshman year. No matter what anyone thinks of Stingley, let's at least keep it real.........elite show one year..........2019............3 years ago. Let's give him some more NFL time, and let him earn with unquestionable performance, before giving him the label of "elite."
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
And that was in his Freshman year. No matter what anyone thinks of Stingley, let's at least keep it real.........elite show one year..........2019............3 years ago. Let's give him some more NFL time, and let him earn with unquestionable performance, before giving him the label of "elite."
I agree. Seeing while I know he is still recovering. I am just not seeing him show traits of a top level CB. Meanwhile, when I catch a Jets game...I see Sauce starting to make a new island. Revis was great and Sauce is starting to become what Revis was.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
And that was in his Freshman year. No matter what anyone thinks of Stingley, let's at least keep it real.........elite show one year..........2019............3 years ago. Let's give him some more NFL time, and let him earn with unquestionable performance, before giving him the label of "elite."
By the same token, let's give him more time before declaring him a bust
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I agree. Seeing while I know he is still recovering. I am just not seeing him show traits of a top level CB. Meanwhile, when I catch a Jets game...I see Sauce starting to make a new island. Revis was great and Sauce is starting to become what Revis was.
By the same token, let's give him more time before declaring him a bust
Lets also give sauce some time before calling him elite…Namdi was “elite” too until he wasn’t.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
FYI: Tytus Howard's contract is up after the 2023 season as well. Both starting tackles. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/houston-texans
Some general thoughts:
If Tytus and Heck play at LG and right tackle as well as vs Chiefs remaining three games, I would think Howard will be extended as a guard not tackle to reduce cost some. He was grateful Nick picked up his 5th. I'm surprised how well Howard did Sunday based on prior attempts. That would have us needing OC. Let's not rule out AC Cann just yet either.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Some general thoughts:
If Tytus and Heck play at LG and right tackle as well as vs Chiefs remaining three games, I would think Howard will be extended as a guard not tackle to reduce cost some. He was grateful Nick picked up his 5th. I'm surprised how well Howard did Sunday based on prior attempts. That would have us needing OC. Let's not rule out AC Cann just yet either.
Howard played a few games at LG and was called a bust because he was so bad, now he's had 1 good game there and is a savior? I think if Jones would have been healthy it may have been a different story
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
As far as his first season goes, the Stingley pick is a bust. We'll have to wait for next season to see if he can heal up and improve.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Perhaps Tunsil insisted on chance for another Pro bowl as good chance he's extended. Good move if so and if he gets all pro even better for him. I wonder if he will be negotiating for himself again.
Tunsil did a fairly rare interview Thursday on 610. He did say he would keep the money in house and negotiate again for himself, laughed off how easy it was against BOB/Easterby, admitted he has less leverage than last time, stated he really likes the city, and if paid, think he will happily stay. His favorite players on the team are Pitre and Pierce, so maybe he sees the team coming with some young "dogs" as he likes to call them. He seems tight with Tytus, so wonder if they will work themselves as a package?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
As far as his first season goes, the Stingley pick is a bust. We'll have to wait for next season to see if he can heal up and improve.
I’d like to see a coach use Stingley more in press than 16 snaps to get a fair gauge on his abilities. Underutilizing his talent. If you’re just playing zone why are you spending the #3 pick on the position? The value for what you’re asking of the position does not line up to the value of the pick.

As it stands, Sauce is having an excellent season schemed like a shutdown CB should be. Allowing him to showcase his talents. Stingley is not given the same opportunity to excel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Tunsil did a fairly rare interview Thursday on 610. He did say he would keep the money in house and negotiate again for himself, laughed off how easy it was against BOB/Easterby, admitted he has less leverage than last time, stated he really likes the city, and if paid, think he will happily stay. His favorite players on the team are Pitre and Pierce, so maybe he sees the team coming with some young "dogs" as he likes to call them. He seems tight with Tytus, so wonder if they will work themselves as a package?
Tunsil strikes me as someone who will go to the highest bidder. Whether that is the Texans or not we will see. But I expect him to want to at least test the market.
 

banned1976

sleeper mode
As far as his first season goes, the Stingley pick is a bust. We'll have to wait for next season to see if he can heal up and improve.
And these first few years, while he is relatively healthy, is where his supporters were hoping he would shine.

The Lis Franc continues to plague this franchise. The first time, okay, nobody saw that coming with Schaub. This one though, they drafted the injury.

I'm not going to enter the "bust" argument. So far, Sauce looks to be the far and away smarter pick. It looked that way on draft night and this season has only reinforced what us armchair GM's thought about the two guys.

TBH, I probably would have paid more attention to this team had they been more successful in the draft. I know that matters only to me, but still the truth. I just wish the Texans looked like they know what they're doing. Lovie was a mistake. Pep was a mistake. Caserio was a mistake. Mills, Stingley, Green... are just byproducts of Lovie, Pep and Caserio mistakes.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Tunsil did a fairly rare interview Thursday on 610. He did say he would keep the money in house and negotiate again for himself, laughed off how easy it was against BOB/Easterby, admitted he has less leverage than last time, stated he really likes the city, and if paid, think he will happily stay. His favorite players on the team are Pitre and Pierce, so maybe he sees the team coming with some young "dogs" as he likes to call them. He seems tight with Tytus, so wonder if they will work themselves as a package?
Interesting thought about Howard and Tunsil. 🤔
They are supposed to be close and both hitting significant cap hit next year.
 
I’d like to see a coach use Stingley more in press than 16 snaps to get a fair gauge on his abilities. Underutilizing his talent. If you’re just playing zone why are you spending the #3 pick on the position? The value for what you’re asking of the position does not line up to the value of the pick.

As it stands, Sauce is having an excellent season schemed like a shutdown CB should be. Allowing him to showcase his talents. Stingley is not given the same opportunity to excel.
Good point and as far as Lovie/Caserio, a bit weird to say the least on the positional pick.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Tunsil strikes me as someone who will go to the highest bidder. Whether that is the Texans or not we will see. But I expect him to want to at least test the market.
strikes me as a guy who likes the game but isn’t in love with it like fans on the outside think all players are. He’s a pro, and he’ll play hard for you and wants to win…. but he ain’t losing sleep if he has a bad 1 off game, a bad team loss……or in this case he plays on a team that is a perpetual loser…… as long as he’s being paid well that is.

Dude will have no issues or regrets of bot winning a SB when he finally hangs his cleats up.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
There have been more non Stingley posts recently in this thread. Let's get back to being more selective on where extraneous posts are being posted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
As far as his first season goes, the Stingley pick is a bust. We'll have to wait for next season to see if he can heal up and improve.
Lest people forget my warning with Schaub................a Lisfranc injury is typically a "wear down" injury.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Tunsil strikes me as someone who will go to the highest bidder. Whether that is the Texans or not we will see. But I expect him to want to at least test the market.
SteelB might have said it, but only one team has a chance to extend him, so we can keep him off the market, but will take some top end money. He sounded open to a extension for sure, but money will be top factor
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
SteelB might have said it, but only one team has a chance to extend him, so we can keep him off the market, but will take some top end money. He sounded open to a extension for sure, but money will be top factor
He averaged $22 for three years and has said he does not expect to have advantage this time. I think if all pro he will.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
Maybe. In Green's case, I'm not sold that his worst-in-league play is solely because of the injury. I think a lot of it is because he lacks strength and gets bull-rushed easily back into the QB. Many clips around showing how badly he's been brutalized. Shouldn't have been drafted where he was with weak showing at the combine... Probably a combination of both... Stingley should be good.
Watch the games…..Tunsil gets his false starts b/c the speed of his backpedal. Tunsil has been and will forever be a bend but don’t break LT who’s not known as a road grading run blocker.

Green plays his LG spot to stand his ground and Tunsil backpedals to avoid getting beat around his outside. Sort of leaves an ugly gap between tackle and guard. I’m holding onto Tunsil b/c of his contract…..I’d be selecting Skoronski as his eventual replacement b/c he’s like Green, a road grader who stands his ground and is very effective in Pass Pro.

Another reason Skoronski, Michael-Schmitz, and Mauch would be my OL picks. All 3 are road graders who stand their ground, punch at the snap, and look to impact defenders in the run game. I don’t see any passive…bend but don’t break in these guys.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Watch the games…..Tunsil gets his false starts b/c the speed of his backpedal. Tunsil has been and will forever be a bend but don’t break LT who’s not known as a road grading run blocker.

Green plays his LG spot to stand his ground and Tunsil backpedals to avoid getting beat around his outside. Sort of leaves an ugly gap between tackle and guard. I’m holding onto Tunsil b/c of his contract…..I’d be selecting Skoronski as his eventual replacement b/c he’s like Green, a road grader who stands his ground and is very effective in Pass Pro.

Another reason Skoronski, Michael-Schmitz, and Mauch would be my OL picks. All 3 are road graders who stand their ground, punch at the snap, and look to impact defenders in the run game. I don’t see any passive…bend but don’t break in these guys.
Backpedaling is part of the LT's game to more securely protect the pocket. An LT that holds his ground is more likely to leave holes open to the QB.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
Sauce has clearly put up better numbers this year for the Jets. But, since we run Lovie's defensive scheme, which player would've been more successful here? Discounting past & future injury concerns. Who would've had the most success in Lovie's system?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Sauce has clearly put up better numbers this year for the Jets. But, since we run Lovie's defensive scheme, which player would've been more successful here? Discounting past & future injury concerns. Who would've had the most success in Lovie's system?
Also have to take into account supporting cast. Jets defense has a lot more talent than Houston.

Sauce would not be considered the premiere lockdown CB he is in a system where he’d only get to play 16 snaps in press coverage. And also has to deal with communication issues with LBs who can’t cover and young safeties learning on the job like him.

Christian Kirksey is no CJ Mosley:

 

banned1976

sleeper mode
Sauce has clearly put up better numbers this year for the Jets. But, since we run Lovie's defensive scheme, which player would've been more successful here? Discounting past & future injury concerns. Who would've had the most success in Lovie's system?
Kyle Hamilton. Notre Dame's base defense was 4-2-5 but they switched it up frequently based on their opponent.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
Exactly, It dumbfounds me how some players like all pro Tunsil and Mills are held to 1 standard, while others aren't held to the same standard by some posters.
I’m fairly equal since I’m not fond of the Center, RG, RT…..and LT. LT makes the list b/c I think a better one could be had for less money, while going through the development process, and learning from Tunsil
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
LT makes the list b/c I think a better one could be had for less money, while going through the development process, and learning from Tunsil
You want to draft a replacement for your 28 yr old pro-bowl LT that is entering his prime and expect drafted player to be better and actually think the vet is going to willingly help that pick to take his job? Texans have many needs but replacing Tunsil is not one of them
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’m fairly equal since I’m not fond of the Center, RG, RT…..and LT. LT makes the list b/c I think a better one could be had for less money, while going through the development process, and learning from Tunsil
You think better than a top LT can be found in the draft?

I'm not against drafting Tunsil's replacement. Just not in this draft. Fact is the Texans need more players like Tunsil not less.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
You want to draft a replacement for your 28 yr old pro-bowl LT that is entering his prime and expect drafted player to be better and actually think the vet is going to willingly help that pick to take his job? Texans have many needs but replacing Tunsil is not one of them
You think better than a top LT can be found in the draft?

I'm not against drafting Tunsil's replacement. Just not in this draft. Fact is the Texans need more players like Tunsil not less.
I'm not 100% sold on Tunsil, but by the same token I'm not throwing him into the trade portal next season either. What I would like to do, draft the top OT in the draft and park his arse at RT. I'd like to see if Tunsil is even better once Green is healthier and there's a better center in place.

As I mentioned in another post, Michael-Schmitz, Mauch, and Skoronski would rebuild the right side in 2023. Tunsil and healthy Green would take care of the left side. There'd be enough talent to re-evaluate the OL at the end of 2023, so there's a game plan in place for 2024.
 
I'm not 100% sold on Tunsil, but by the same token I'm not throwing him into the trade portal next season either. What I would like to do, draft the top OT in the draft and park his arse at RT. I'd like to see if Tunsil is even better once Green is healthier and there's a better center in place.

As I mentioned in another post, Michael-Schmitz, Mauch, and Skoronski would rebuild the right side in 2023. Tunsil and healthy Green would take care of the left side. There'd be enough talent to re-evaluate the OL at the end of 2023, so there's a game plan in place for 2024.
From what I've seen this year, the biggest problem in the interior OL - pass protection specifically. Brutal stuff. Tunsil, besides the customary bi-game false start penalty, is playing well. He should be paid like a Top 5 LT.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
You want to draft a replacement for your 28 yr old pro-bowl LT that is entering his prime and expect drafted player to be better...
If the Texans were going to do that, last year was the year. There may be s one developmental guys. But no one that can step in. Taking a QB in the 1st means keeping Tunsil for 2023, even if he won't extend.

Sent from my SM-T733 using Tapatalk
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm thinking he did a good job in the last draft and if Cal is willing to wait until 2024 he can get the franchise QB. + Doubtful)

I really hope Caserio picks Duggan somewhere along the way. That guy's will to win is larger than most. The Big 12 championship game confirmed that for me. He finished 2nd in the Heisman working with less than guys like Stroud/Williams who had a lot more to work with. I bet he runs in the low 4.5's. He's got a strong enough arm. He's a more athletic Jimmy G.
****
“Every time something’s gone bad … I’ve never seen him panic, I’ve never seen him complain,” All-America guard Steve Avila said. “He plays so hard. I’ve never seen a quarterback take hits like him, and just get up and walk it off.”
***
Hey guys check out this story about Duggan in this mornings Chron. Tremendous competitor and a real team guy. Gosh maybe he's also a Jesus frick (going to TCU it's unlikely he's an atheist), would be all Casserio needs to sell Cal on the idea of drafting him.
Use our second round pick or even our #2 first round pick to get him and use that top pick on Carter, or Anderson, or another
top defensive player in this years Draft to begin to put some real teeth in our defense.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
****
“Every time something’s gone bad … I’ve never seen him panic, I’ve never seen him complain,” All-America guard Steve Avila said. “He plays so hard. I’ve never seen a quarterback take hits like him, and just get up and walk it off.”
***
Hey guys check out this story about Duggan in this mornings Chron. Tremendous competitor and a real team guy. Gosh maybe he's also a Jesus frick (going to TCU it's unlikely he's an atheist), would be all Casserio needs to sell Cal on the idea of drafting him.
Use our second round pick or even our #2 first round pick to get him and use that top pick on Carter, or Anderson, or another
top defensive player in this years Draft to begin to put some real teeth in our defense.
Duggan has a lot of Jimmy G in his game.

I would rather take Duggan àt 3-65 than Young at 1-1.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
"3-65", so guess that means you don't value him high enough to use our second round pick on him ?
I value him at somewhere mid to late 2nd rd and would trade up to get him.

I'm thinking NFL folks will have him somewhere in the late 3rd, early 4th rd range. But with his prior heart condition, who knows. He reminds me of a more athletic Jimmy G.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
If it's a QB come hail or high water.....Hendon Hooker is my choice. He's put up solid games and stats for the last 2 seasons. He was the best QB this season until an injury derailed it near the end. The good thing about Hooker, the Texans couldn't screw this up even if they tried. He'd be rehabbing his injury in season one, which would give him the best chance of any Texans QB of getting a development season without being thrown under center.
 
Last edited:


Top