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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

beerlover said:
There is/was nothing smart about disregarding medicals. It had to be novice, empowered person(s) opinion. Nick does not strike me as egotistical. Caserio is a workaholic and a workaholic leaves no stones unturned.
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Nick strikes me as extremely egotistical given his pressers and smug responses to the press.
 
beerlover said:
Also characteristic of workaholics with blinders on, something different with covers pulled back.
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Understood. There's every chance he disregards media as misinformed and a waste of his time. Still, I see comments that relay his pride.

I hope it's a workaholic mindset as you suggest rather than ego. Very easy to misinterpret the two.
 
powda said:
Understood. There's every chance he disregards media as misinformed and a waste of his time. Still, I see comments that relay his pride.

I hope it's a workaholic mindset as you suggest rather than ego. Very easy to misinterpret the two.
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How did you perceive Luhnow when the Stros were losing 100 games a yr for 3 straight yrs.
 
powda said:
Give it at least 3 years. I will naively hope for a rebound.


(Full transparency- I wanted sauce over sting ,but it was all based on scouting reports I read and not a single game I watched...)
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You should have watched because Sauce can be good in any system, man or zone.
He has the size, the length, the lateral quickness, the short and long speed.
The smart and the confidence.

In another word, the total package.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is very troublesome.

I might just offer Stingley for Payton straight up in a trade.
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Very probable, Stingley will experience highs as a press corner and lows dealing with his medical issues.

Talk about three years to form a draft grade? He might need four, then real discussion about 5th year or extension. Stingley could turn into great value on his 2nd contract, completely bust out of the league or walk via free agency seeking better situation.
 
beerlover said:
I’ve changed my opinion on who is responsible for 2022 3rd overall pick in the draft and this surprises even me, it’s the McNairs (w/Jack Easterby in Cal’s ear) selection!

Not inclined to elaborate just know that Caserio reports to them, he recommends options and preferred selection but they ultimately have the power to decide. Have to believe from scouting standpoint, with all due diligence their big board looked something like
A. Hutchinson
B. Gardner
C. Walker
D. Thibodeaux
E. Stingley
Walker went #1 Hutchinson #2 then Texans on the clock.

I’ve seen the Jets war room and they were on pins and needles waiting for Texans selection. No indication of any call either to trade up with Texans or vice versa by Texans to trade down.

I haven’t seen tape of Texans war room. If anyone has, please post.

Caserio acknowledged both Gardner and Thib’s as highly graded, in discussion selection but something happened or changed when it was time to pick. Don’t believe it was Lovie either because in his Tampa 2 zone defense Gardner would have been his choice. Is there any reason why he didn’t change his scheme to fit Stingley thereby infuriating ownership because of his struggles and playing out of position? Guess we’ll have to wait for Lovies book to come out. Know I’m buying a copy when he does. Gardner is even better in zone than press and he led the league in defended passes. He would have been his selection is my guess, but only a guess.

So this one is on ownership or they just don’t understand scouting, medical reports, coaching preferences even opinion of the GM they hired to run the football side of their business.

:koolaid:
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Crazy thing, he said he was going to change up his scheme way before the season started.
I remember throughout those pre season games. Lovie had his defense out there working. He was blitzing a lot from different positions on the field. He had his front mixing things up and getting after it. Then the regular season started and he completely went away from what he had his defense doing in the preseason.
It was like he was determined to show the football world that his dinosaur of a defense still works today.

When he was fired a rumor surfaced that he refused to listen to people in the building. Especially from his players.
 
76Texan said:
You should have watched because Sauce can be good in any system, man or zone.
He has the size, the length, the lateral quickness, the short and long speed.
The smart and the confidence.

In another word, the total package.
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Unfortunately, Lovie assessed the same of Stingley (see my previous post below.............be sure to read Lovie's comments), yet now everyone is making the excuse that Stingley was put in the wrong system.

CloakNNNdagger said:
.
These were the same comments I was told that Lovie had used in the decision process. Everything about the choice is questionable. When Lovie announced Stingley, he stated that he would use him by always assigning him to the #1 receiver.........he didn't........because of the limitations of pushing off of his left Lisfranc foot when trying to play from the left side. In the Tampa 2, the CB plays near and LOS and immediately bumps the receiver............Lovie played his CBs mostly 10 yds off the LOS. Lovie and other evaluators thought that via his athleticism, Stingley was "scheme versatile." This versatility thus far has been shown to be a overstated.


Why go with Stingley over Gardner?

“I think it’s more about scheme than anything else,” [Eric] Galko (
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East-West Shrine Bowl Director of Football Operations and Player Personnel) said. “Stingley is more scheme-versatile and is such a talented, long press corner. Stingley is a better athlete, but it’s more about playing in different schemes that value athleticism versus Gardner lacking anything. Gardner is an easier projection as a rookie, but Stingley has more upside for the future, in my opinion.”
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link
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Would really like to say someone has a higher draft grade than “Sauce” in the 2023 draft but I just don’t think so?
 
So Stingley didn't hurt his Lisfranc, so that's not an issue, he pulled his hamstring which could happen to any player. He was having a good season up to that point. From what I understand, Lovie held him out a little longer, probably to support the Tank. Whatever....
Earl Campbell had hamstring injuries that held him out of multiple games...I never heard the hate on him that we should have chosen someone else like Terry Miller or Elvis Peacock instead of Earl.
Maybe next year Sauce pulls his hamstring...What say you then?!?

And how does anyone know who said what to who concerning the draft pick?
No one knows who made the pick, if anyone went crying to Cal (Lovie) ...I think if that had happened I'd have fired Lovie the next day!
Gets old all the people here acting like they were a fly on the wall during these conversations.
No one knows unless you were there, and you weren't! I been around since Eisenhower was President, and if there's one thing i've learned it's that not everything you read is true. Everything?..No, most! Most of what you read isn't true. And alot of what you hear isn't true either.
Unless NC or Lovie comes out and says whatever, don't believe it. And they'd better agree with the other about what was said.
End of story.
 
wildroot said:
So Stingley didn't hurt his Lisfranc, so that's not an issue, he pulled his hamstring which could happen to any player. He was having a good season up to that point. From what I understand, Lovie held him out a little longer, probably to support the Tank. Whatever....
Earl Campbell had hamstring injuries that held him out of multiple games...I never heard the hate on him that we should have chosen someone else like Terry Miller or Elvis Peacock instead of Earl.
Maybe next year Sauce pulls his hamstring...What say you then?!?

And how does anyone know who said what to who concerning the draft pick?
No one knows who made the pick, if anyone went crying to Cal (Lovie) ...I think if that had happened I'd have fired Lovie the next day!
Gets old all the people here acting like they were a fly on the wall during these conversations.
No one knows unless you were there, and you weren't! I been around since Eisenhower was President, and if there's one thing i've learned it's that not everything you read is true. Everything?..No, most! Most of what you read isn't true. And alot of what you hear isn't true either.
Unless NC or Lovie comes out and says whatever, don't believe it. And they'd better agree with the other about what was said.
End of story.
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www.espn.com

CB Stingley still recovering from Lisfranc injury

Cornerback Derek Stingley Jr. says he will not work out at the NFL's scouting combine as he continues to recover from a Lisfranc injury suffered during his final season at LSU.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

I'm guessing it is end of story...

Only for you?
 
wildroot said:
So Stingley didn't hurt his Lisfranc, so that's not an issue, he pulled his hamstring which could happen to any player. He was having a good season up to that point. From what I understand, Lovie held him out a little longer, probably to support the Tank. Whatever....
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wildroot said:
That was 1 1/2 yrs ago, before he was drafted. He hasn't had a reoccurence to his Lisfranc since that time.
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You evidently haven't read my injury commentaries or haven't wanted to comprehend the typical lingering implications of a Lisfranc injury ("recurrence" of a Lisfranc is hardly ever the problem (e.g., Schaub never had a "recurrence.")..........or the relationship of the Lisfranc to future compensatory lower extremity injuries such as hamstrings. Stingley had a legitimate severe grade II mid hamstring muscle belly tear. He was never going to be able to return short of ~6-8 weeks. He sealed that by testing his hamstring out too soon, resulting in setback. Tanking had nothing to do with Stingley not playing the rest of the season.
 
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wildroot said:
Whatever....
Earl Campbell had hamstring injuries that held him out of multiple games...I never heard the hate on him that we should have chosen someone else like Terry Miller or Elvis Peacock instead of Earl.
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WTF are you talking about? Earl missed 2 games his 1st 4 seasons. It’s one thing to argue a point, but making shit up is another.

wildroot said:
From what I understand, Lovie held him out a little longer, probably to support the Tank.
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Texans were 1-7-1 with Stingley on the field. I don’t think he was making much difference.

wildroot said:
That was 1 1/2 yrs ago, before he was drafted. He hasn't had a reoccurence to his Lisfranc since that time.
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He’s also only played in 7, 3, and 9 games since his 2019 season.
 
Speedy said:
WTF are you talking about? Earl missed 2 games his 1st 4 seasons. It’s one thing to argue a point, but making **** up is another.
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It's been awhile, I remember him missing a game due to a hamstring, may have been the playoff game against the Chargers when Rob Carpenter had to play for him. Giff had to start also Cause Pastorini was out as well.
Anyway, I probably could have chosen a better example than one from 40+ yrs ago.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You evidently haven't read my injury commentaries or haven't wanted to comprehend the typical lingering implications of a Lisfranc injury ("recurrence" of a Lisfranc is hardly ever the problem (e.g., Schaub never had a "recurrence.")..........or the relationship of the Lisfranc to future compensatory lower extremity injuries such as hamstrings. Stingley had a legitimate severe grade II mid hamstring muscle belly tear. He was never going to be able to return short of ~6-8 weeks. He sealed that by testing his hamstring out too soon, resulting in setback. Tanking had nothing to do with Stingley not playing the rest of the season.
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I read them, I missed the one you're refering to. I wasn't aware that a lisfranc injury could impact an injury at the other end of your leg.
Live & Learn....
 
He is very versatile. Nobody can move from crutches to walking boot to hot tub to training table any better and with more style than Sting. That's true versatility.

I hope Mr. Smartest Guy in the room learned a lesson from this draft, but I really doubt it.
 
Porky said:
He is very versatile. Nobody can move from crutches to walking boot to hot tub to training table any better and with more style than Sting. That's true versatility.

I hope Mr. Smartest Guy in the room learned a lesson from this draft, but I really doubt it.
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Stingley is WR Cooks playing CB. Count on missing time.
 
Porky said:
He is very versatile. Nobody can move from crutches to walking boot to hot tub to training table any better and with more style than Sting. That's true versatility.

I hope Mr. Smartest Guy in the room learned a lesson from this draft, but I really doubt it.
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Show Lovie some respect.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If Ryans is hired as HC, he essentially runs a cover 4 D. His CBs seldom are left to man coverage. Four down linemen rush rush the QB, and the middle of the field is protected by the standard 3 linebackers or 2 linebackers and a nickel.
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The Lynch/Shanahan Niners have never drafted a CB higher than the 3rd round. They haven't needed the perfect size/speed/agility CB that is found in the 1st round.

But Saleh also came from that system. He found a way to incorporate Suace Gardner into the Jets defense. I think Ryans can do the same, if/when Stingley rebounds from his injury.
 
Lucky said:
Players usually don't get that kind of scrutiny unless they have popped positive on a previous test.
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I am somewhat skeptical of the accuracy of that information. I guarantee you that if he were getting tested by mandate, he would know exactly how many he had to undergo. And if he were "popped positive," I doubt seriously that he would be tweeting this. It would not be unheard of for a player to be tested at least as often as Gardner claims he has been tested......without being in the "popped" Program. And if a player were in the Program, he would have been tested much more than 10 times during the season.

This may help:

FROM THE NFLPA website NFL POLICY ON PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING SUBSTANCES 2022 [CBA]

All testing of Players for Prohibited Substances, including any pre-employment testing, is to be conducted pursuant to this Policy. All specimens will be collected by an authorized specimen collector under the authority of the Collection Vendor and analyzed at the appropriate laboratory (see Sections 3.2 and 3.4). As is the case in the employment setting, Players testing positive in a pre-employment setting will be subject to medical evaluation and clinical monitoring as set forth in Sections 3.1 and 4.3, and to the disciplinary steps outlined in Section 6.

Urine testing will take place under the following circumstances:

Pre-Employment: Pre-employment tests may be administered to free agent Players (whether rookies or veterans). In addition, testing will be conducted at the annual scouting combines.

Annual: All Players will be tested for Prohibited Substances at least once per League Year. Such testing will occur at training camp prior to the Club’s first preseason game or whenever the Player reports thereafter, and will be deemed a part of his preseason physical. 5 (2021)

Preseason/Regular Season: Each week during the preseason and regular season, ten (10) Players on every Club will be tested. By means of a computer program, the Independent Administrator will randomly select the Players to be tested from the Club’s active roster, practice squad list, and reserve list who are not otherwise subject to ongoing reasonable cause testing for performanceenhancing substances. The number of Players selected for testing on a particular day will be determined in advance on a uniform basis. Players will be required to provide a specimen whenever they are selected, without regard to the number of times they have previously been tested consistent with the limits set forth in the Policy.

Postseason: Ten (10) Players on every Club qualifying for the playoffs will be tested weekly so long as the Club remains active in the postseason. Players to be tested during the postseason will be selected on the same basis as during the regular season.

Off-Season: Players under contract who are not otherwise subject to reasonable cause testing may be tested during the off-season months at the discretion of the Independent Administrator, subject to the collectively bargained maximum of six (including blood tests) off-season tests. Players to be tested in the off-season will be selected on the same basis as during the regular season, irrespective of their off-season locations. Any Player selected for testing during the off-season will be required to furnish a urine specimen at a convenient location acceptable to the Independent Administrator, subject to the qualification set forth in Section 3.2 for specimen collections occurring away from the Club facility. Only Player

Reasonable Cause Testing For Players With Prior Positive Tests Or Under Other Circumstances: Any Player testing positive for a Prohibited Substance, including a Player who tested positive or for whom there is sufficient credible evidence4 of steroid involvement up to two football seasons prior to his applicable college draft or at a scouting combine, will be subject to evaluation by the Independent Administrator, after which the Independent Administrator may in his or her discretion place the Player into the reasonable cause testing program. Players placed into the program will be subject to testing both in-season and during the off-season at a frequency and duration determined by the Independent Administrator consistent with this Policy. Reasonable cause testing may also be required when, in the opinion of the Independent Administrator, he receives credible, verifiable documented information providing a reasonable basis to conclude that a Player may have violated the Policy or may have a medical condition that warrants further monitoring. If either Party asks the Independent Administrator for explanation of his/her decision to place a Player on reasonable cause testing based on credible information, he or she will promptly and fully provide the explanation to the Parties.

If a Player is placed into the reasonable cause testing program, the Independent Administrator in his or her discretion shall determine the type of testing (e.g., urine, blood, or both) and frequency of testing to which the Player will be subject consistent with this Policy. If the Independent Administrator recommends more than one blood serum test per week, he shall provide the Parties with a written explanation regarding why this frequency of testing is warranted prior to commencement of such testing.

Players who are placed into the reasonable cause program based on a violation of the Policy must remain in the program a minimum of one full testing season (first day of training camp to the 4 As used in this Policy, sufficient credible evidence includes but is not limited to: criminal convictions or plea arrangements; admissions, declarations, affidavits, authenticated witness statements, corroborated law enforcement reports or testimony in legal proceedings; authenticated banking, telephone, medical or pharmacy records; or credible information obtained from Players who provide assistance pursuant to Section 10 of the Policy. 6 (2021) following first day of training camp), after which the Independent Administrator shall notify the Player in writing (with copies to the Parties) before or during the second training camp either that he has been discharged from the program or that he will remain in the program subject to review at a later date. For avoidance of doubt, a Player in the reasonable cause program remains in that status unless or until he is discharged in writing by the Independent Administrator. Players who enter the program based on other reasons may be discharged at any time but shall be advised in writing during training camp if they are required to remain in the program for all or part of that testing season.

No Club may require any Player to submit to any form of testing not authorized by this Policy. In addition, Players on reasonable cause testing may be removed from their Club’s active roster and placed in the category of Reserve/Non-Football Illnessif, after consultation with the Club physician and NFLPA Medical D
 
This is all very fascinating which is when doing player evaluations you need to be well versed and knowledgeable in the medical field. Any Medical issue is a red flag for me until adequate medical prognosis has been to assess risks.

Your (CloakNndagger) input is such a valuable asset to all of us who frequent that no measure of gratitude can properly suffice. Thank you for making Texanstalk.com what it has been and is today 🙏🏼

On a lighter note, anybody see the Sauce Super Bowl Promo?
 
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beerlover said:
This is all very fascinating which is when doing player evaluations you need to be well versed and knowledgeable in the medical field. Any Medical issue is a red flag for me until adequate medical prognosis has been to assess risks.

Your (CloakNndagger) input is such a valuable asset to all of us who frequent that no measure of gratitude can properly suffice. Thank you for making Texanstalk.com what it has been and is today 🙏🏼

On a lighter note, anybody see the Sauce Super wl Promo?
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Much thanks for the kind words. Always makes one feel good to know that a positive contribution is acknowledged.:tiphat:

Sauce SB promo
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I am somewhat skeptical of the accuracy of that information.
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What Lucky is saying or what Gardner is saying?


CloakNNNdagger said:
And if he were "popped positive," I doubt seriously that he would be tweeting this.
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Or he could just be setting the spin cycle on high in anticipation of something potentially bad coming out about his usage. What better way to curry favor with your fans ahead of time than to reveal what appears to be the "unfairness" of being tested so much during the season and now being tested in the offseason...espeically when most fans don't have a clue of the PED testing policy and know that being tested as much as he was during the season isn't uncommon.

Like you say, he should know without question how many times he was tested in season....7-10, that's quite vague.
 
Mr teX said:
What Lucky is saying or what Gardner is saying?




Or he could just be setting the spin cycle on high in anticipation of something potentially bad coming out about his usage. What better way to curry favor with your fans ahead of time than to reveal what appears to be the "unfairness" of being tested so much during the season and now being tested in the offseason...espeically when most fans don't have a clue of the PED testing policy and know that being tested as much as he was during the season isn't uncommon.

Like you say, he should know without question how many times he was tested in season....7-10, that's quite vague.
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What Gardner was saying.

Playing the role of a phantom victim in order to garner more attention to his exemplary play (while supposedly being hounded by a mean unfair entity for his uber success) in 2022.
 
beerlover said:
Your (CloakNndagger) input is such a valuable asset to all of us who frequent that no measure of gratitude can properly suffice. Thank you for making Texanstalk.com what it has been and is today 🙏🏼
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You bet I totally second that as I'm also very grateful for C&Ds input on all things but of course most of all the medical subjects
where his professional expertise provides a valuable resource for all of us on the Board.
 
Just watched this video posted on YouTube of early Gardner how far and fast he rose all the way through College, so now I can see how it’s possible to miss on what maybe considered “long shot” player when there is this blue chip nationally ranked #1 CB there with more proven track record and pedigree.
 
beerlover said:
Just watched this video posted on YouTube of early Gardner how far and fast he rose all the way through College, so now I can see how it’s possible to miss on what maybe considered “long shot” player when there is this blue chip nationally ranked #1 CB there with more proven track record and pedigree.
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Thanks for posting. Consistent throughout his college career..........extending his consistency to the NFL.
 
beerlover said:
Just watched this video posted on YouTube of early Gardner how far and fast he rose all the way through College, so now I can see how it’s possible to miss on what maybe considered “long shot” player when there is this blue chip nationally ranked #1 CB there with more proven track record and pedigree.
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I wanted the Texans to draft him so badly. Still pissed that Stingley was drafted instead. That's my biggest draft disappointment in Texans history.
 
DocBar said:
I wanted the Texans to draft him so badly. Still pissed that Stingley was drafted instead. That's my biggest draft disappointment in Texans history.
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Not even close.
Remember when Philly jumped over us and drafted Andre Dillard - and O'Brien knee jerked and took Tytus Howard?
Yeah, that one.
Turns out Howard may be better and after he gets over his injury, the same might yet be said for Stingley.
 
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