I can blame you. Lol
Sauce has had a better 9 games.
I have been pleasantly surprised that Stingley has stayed healthy and played well.
Both are fine players who are playing well as rookies.
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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner
- Thread starter Hottoddie
- Start date
Sauce has had a better 9 games.
I have been pleasantly surprised that Stingley has stayed healthy and played well.
Both are fine players who are playing well as rookies.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
This sounds more personal to you than anything. You just want to take the opposite position of SteelB. Explains why logic doesn’t matter with you and why you go off topic bringing in things that don’t matter.
How did SteelB hurt you?
But you didn't answer the question.
Do you like Stingley better than Sauce now?
There's never anything personal.
I just want to understand his logic.
He (Steelbtexan) much preferred Mahomes over Watson.
So did I.
He also preferred Sauce over Stingley.
Yet, he question why a thread like this exists.
It exists for that very reason.
There are people on this forum wanting Nick Caserio to pick the guy that they think have a better upside.
Why is that so difficult to understand?
It's about Nick Caserio.
It's never been about Steelbtexan.
totally agree. I would never go exclusively by their rankings. But they are a tool and in this case align with pretty much everyone’s assessment of Sauces play, Sauces dominance on thefield.
Sauce has played very well this year. He's a stud that was the last major piece to finish off a top 10 defense. I also like the Johnson pick a lot. How's he been doing?
I wish Caserio/Lovie had just drafted Stingley (I wanted Sauce) Jordan Davis and Sam Williams in rds 1-3. The rebuild would be a lot further along had they chosen to go that way.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
go back and read LZ’s write up on Stingley…all that is what was worth the gamble. And thus far he has shown it was.
The talking point for Sauce coming out was that he hadn’t given up a TD in 3 years..like that’s how good he was…and honestly that was a red flag for me right there…..b/c if you’re playing the position…& you’re playing top level competition, you’re going to give up a TD somewhere along the line…no matter how good you are…You on the other hand seemed to have put all your faith in that talking point and his 3 good years of tape. But im asking you…. how valuable was his tape really if he hardly faced anyone of note?
Both of these kids obviously have tremendous talent. But just come clean and acknowledge that you never actually watched tape on Stingley and you just wrote him off b/c of the lisfranc injury…you’ve said a number of things in this thread now that point to just that.
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You missed some of my posts.
I had said that Stingley's freshman tape was not all that impressive to me. They were very good, but not great.
And his situation at LSU was similar to Sauce's rookie year with the yet.
The whole defense was loaded.
All of them got drafted in either 2000 or 2021.
There were one or two rotational players that got drafted also.
I haven't checked the 2022 draft, but there could be more rotational/ back up players that got drafted.
I also said that Stingley's tape from last year was pretty meh.
I would not take him in the top 3, even without the injury concern. Maybe top 15 top 20.
Texansballer74
The Marine
They were not nowhere near the top 20 last year. They hit on a lot of their draft picks. And this year it’s finally coming together. That team has been in the dump way longer than the Texans.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
and you'd be the only person who thought that...Dude literally was a freshman all american off that tape....from an earlier post of mine & something you missed from LZ's write up:
This was after the lisfranc and everything.Dude, you can't compare that simply b/c they are 2 different venues...college to the pros. Yes, LSU was loaded that year...but so were alot of the opponents his team faced so it evened out. Sauce played on a "less loaded" team by talent in college, but the competition he faced was pretty much on the same level save for a few games here and there in the AAC. That's not what has gone on in the NFL thus far. Stingley is playing well despite the overall talent deficiency of the guys around him..Sauce has played well...with a bevy of good young talented guys around him. Match up wise, Stingley has also seen the tougher QB/WR combo match ups overall in the NFL.
& once again, it is now known why that was....he was trying to play thru a lisfranc....which when you think about it is crazy....But you'd be the only guy in the room who wouldn't have taken him top 5 without the injury concern....but you know what they say about "the smartest guy in the room"...
...
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol no. Most of the guys making the biggest impact on their defense, they didn't even draft and if they did, it was 2 years before Saleh even got there. They only get credit for Quinnen & Sauce...2 guys drafted like 3 years apart by 2 different regimes.
They got their MLB back added to their front 7 in the draft and a CB in FA in addition to Sauce.
They already had 5-6 players in place on defense.
The Texans are in a similar situation on offense. Add playmakers at the wr/TE/RB positions and a center and the offense will look a lot better even if Caserio drafts a midget to be the franchise QB as directed by Cal.
Read the part about national concensus.and you'd be the only person who thought that...Dude literally was a freshman all american off that tape....from an earlier post of mine & something you missed from LZ's write up:
View attachment 11075 This was after the lisfranc and everything.
Dude, you can't compare that simply b/c they are 2 different venues...college to the pros. Yes, LSU was loaded that year...but so were alot of the opponents his team faced so it evened out. Sauce played on a "less loaded" team by talent in college, but the competition he faced was pretty much on the same level save for a few games here and there in the AAC. That's not what has gone on in the NFL thus far. Stingley is playing well despite the overall talent deficiency of the guys around him..Sauce has played well...with a bevy of good young talented guys around him. Match up wise, Stingley has also seen the tougher QB/WR combo match ups overall in the NFL.
& once again, it is now known why that was....he was trying to play thru a lisfranc....which when you think about it is crazy....But you'd be the only guy in the room who wouldn't have taken him top 5 without the injury concern....but you know what they say about "the smartest guy in the room"...
monumental sports network
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1st of all…its Daniel Jeremiah….that alone damn near warrants disqualification…2nd of all, he’s doing what he does…which is talk out of both sides of his mouth. Acknowledging that Stingley dealt with injury his last year…That Stingley played against much tougher competition overall…but b/c he got torched 1 time by a future heisman winner in a game as a freshman..& he’s never seen the “sauce” get that treatment, the “Sauce” should be drafted higher…errr that’s the “national consensus”…which is bullocks.
Then he goes on to compare Devonta Smith to Gabe Davis…a guy who couldnt hold Smith’s jock in college and TO DATE hasnt even had a season as good as Smith’s rookie season in the NFL…despite having the better qb. ****’s a joke.
It doesn't matter what he said.
I asked you to read about the "consensus" part, which means the things he heard from talking to various people in the scouting community.
Here's a composite board.
It put Sauce over Stingley.
2022 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database
The 2022 Consensus NFL Big Board from NFL Mock Draft Database. We've compiled all featured big boards into a single board.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It doesn't matter what he said.
I asked you to read about the "consensus" part, which means the things he heard from talking to various people in the scouting community.
Here's a composite board.
It put Sauce over Stingley.
2022 Consensus Big Board | NFL Mock Draft Database
The 2022 Consensus NFL Big Board from NFL Mock Draft Database. We've compiled all featured big boards into a single board.www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com
like i said many posts ago…its a matter of preference…and in that line of thinking, you can find any number of “consensus” write ups where 1 guy is over another….especially with prospects graded so closely as these 2 were.
but if we’re talking prototype, Stingley was the guy…his comp was Gilmore..which is far more in line with the most cbs….there’s only 1-2 comps for Sauce.
Don't need too many comps.
Cromartie and Sherman are plenty good enough.
At best there was no consensus.
And then there's the preference.
Watching his tapes, I prefer Sauce since he's schemed-versatile. He can play any position in the backfield.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I thought Stingley was a major reach at #3. I'm on record stating numerous times that I wouldn't take him in the first round at all due to injury history. But that's just me. No significant injury history? Possibly top 10, but not top 5. If you're taking a CB that high, he better damn well be clean in all aspects. Injury history aside, his tape was in decline. Yes, he had major upside coming out, but WAY to risky at #3 - imho. I'm not sure if this was a Lovie or a Casserio pick...I suspect Lovie. I tend to think that Casserio is just carrying water for Lovie.
I think it's clear that Sauce has had the better rookie campaign thus far. It's only the opening chapter of a much longer book. Let Sting get a little more experience, add a couple of pieces in the front 7 and let's see where things stand next year. At this time, I expect Sting to have a very good...but not great career IF he can stay healthy. The word "solid" comes to mind, possibly a pro-bowl or two in there. But my strong hunch is Sauce will be thought of as the better corner when the full book is written.
Time will tell.
I think it's clear that Sauce has had the better rookie campaign thus far. It's only the opening chapter of a much longer book. Let Sting get a little more experience, add a couple of pieces in the front 7 and let's see where things stand next year. At this time, I expect Sting to have a very good...but not great career IF he can stay healthy. The word "solid" comes to mind, possibly a pro-bowl or two in there. But my strong hunch is Sauce will be thought of as the better corner when the full book is written.
Time will tell.
At least you have an open mind, unlike a few here
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
If a HC says I want these types of players and lists them for the GM isn’t that how the relationship is supposed to work? Is that carrying water for someone?
I'll put the link to Caserio's take on the draft in his thread so it can be useful for more people.
I think Stingley has given up what 20 yards in the last 2 weeks? Probably would have been 35-40 if that Giants WR doesn’t drop that crosser yesterday. Still I’ll take 40 yards over 2 weeks.
Not sure why there’s been such a big deal made of this. The NFL draft isn’t necessarily a winner take all thing. Sauce has been excellent and Stingley has been good (and getting better since the first 4-5 games).
10 teams selected players before JJ Watt including Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Aldon Smith, and Marcell Dareus.
If you draft a guy and he’s a good player for your team then that’s a win in my opinion.
Not sure why there’s been such a big deal made of this. The NFL draft isn’t necessarily a winner take all thing. Sauce has been excellent and Stingley has been good (and getting better since the first 4-5 games).
10 teams selected players before JJ Watt including Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Aldon Smith, and Marcell Dareus.
If you draft a guy and he’s a good player for your team then that’s a win in my opinion.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Stingley is mainly playing zone, so of course he’s not giving up a lot yardage.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
lol, so is Sauce…
The mentality of mediocrity.
Assuming Stingley doesn’t turn out to be as good as Sauce I’ll say this. If you wanna spend your time looking for players who were selected after another player but did better than them go ahead but it’s gonna be a very long list and it’ll get longer every year.The mentality of mediocrity.
*edited to be nicer to the very bright person I’m responding to
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Obviously not.
Thank you.
Like I had said when Nick Caserio first got here, we're going to keep score of all the moves he made and then at some point in time (hopefully five years), use some sort of a system to measure, let's say the draft picks, against the other teams.
For example this system:
Studying 5 years of NFL drafts to find best, worst teams at picking
Every NFL team talks about building through the draft, but very few actually do it. We looked at who is best and worst at drafting over the past five years in our third annual team draft rankings. …
nypost.com
There are many other such studies out there that encompass different time frames; some of the reads can be quite lengthy.
But in short, if we use that particular article, it coincides with Rick Smith last five years, and he came in 17th, which was mediocre.
However, if we move forward in time, some of those draft picks continue to be forces in the league.
And also, if we looked back at the previous five years of his tenure, his score is likely going to be higher with players like J J Watt, Kareem Jackson, Cushing, Duane Brown, etc.
Noted that Rick Smith ranking for the previous year was 4th (in parenthesis next to the 17).
Not to mention an undrafted gem in Foster.
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The year prior being ranked in 4th place, Rick Smith was graded at 3rd.
nypost.com
Ranking from 1-32 the NFL’s best teams at drafting
There may not be a more inexact science in sports than the NFL draft. Teams spend plenty of time and money on the draft, but they still miss more than they hit on picks. For the second straight yea…
nypost.com
beerlover
Hall of Fame
https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-rookie...2022-season-four-seahawks-in-top-25-but-jets-
Two Texans not named Stingley, made his rookie top 25.
Two Texans not named Stingley, made his rookie top 25.
Less (None) about each other and get back to football ....
Attack the post, not the poster .... @steelbtexan doesn't play or work for the Texans. This forum is for discussion of the Texans, their players, games, coaches and ownership .... Not fans or other posters.
@Double Barrel
@Lucky
@thunderkyss
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I always say it's not about Steelbtexan (except on a few occasions when we took friendly jabs at each other).
We never call each other's name or raise any slight insult.
It's just different opinions, like when sometimes I included your name on certain topics (like how well Watson play or what percentage of the salary cap the QB occupies that become detrimental health of the team.)
You can just replace the name Steelb or Corrosion with the name of certain member I was having the disagreement/argument with and you should see that I'm attacking the stance, not the poster.
We like train wrecks.Not sure the Texans are actually worthy of fighting over.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Deleted: all I can do is smh
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It is hard to look away from a train wreck.
Wanted to know who this was so I looked it up
Hi There! My name is Luke Sawhook, I'm a student at Miami University (Ohio)
That is all I needed to read... not saying he's wrong, but he's hardly expert and probably not unbiased
I just wanted to put the info out there. I've never seen any of his stuff posted before. I found it funny also
I disagree.
One is very good.
The other is pretty good.
Until Stingley can show that he's a lock-down corner; he's still in a lower grade.
Just like an elite QB as compared to a pretty good QB
They're far from the same.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Are you saying Sauce Gardner is elite?
Because you just made a comparison between a good QB vs an elite QB.
But you started off with one is very good and the other is pretty good.
An elite rookie CB.