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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

steelbtexan said:
What I want to know is what was the purpose of this thread at the time it was made?
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Hottoddie said:
With all the complaining about the Texans taking Stingley over Gardner with the #3 pick, I thought it would be worth keeping track of their efforts on the field. Since I can't watch the Jets games & my job restricts how many Texans games I can watch, I have to base this comparison on recorded stats, independent analytical services & comments from the members of this board.

After game one, the winner (statistically) was Stingley with 7 tackles, 3 solo tackles & 1 PD versus Gardner's 2 tackles, 1 solo tackle & 1 PD. According to Next Gen Stats "Top 10 Rookie Debuts of 2022" article posted on NFL.Com, Stingley is ranked #4 & Gardner isn't listed in the top 10 at all. Jalen Pitre is ranked #2 on the top 10 list.

Of course, it's a long season & this is only one game, but it'll be interesting to see how the season plays out.

www.nfl.com

Top 10 rookie debuts of the 2022 NFL season: Drake London, Dominique Robinson stand out

Did any rookie get off to a better start than Drake London? Does Derek Stingley Jr. look like a foundational piece for the Texans? The Next Gen Stats analytics team ranks the top rookie debuts of the 2022 NFL season.
www.nfl.com www.nfl.com
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LF911SC said:
seems totally backwards. Those here who are talking up Sauce taking about how well he’s played and not trying to bring down your guy. Also they’re not complaining that people like Stingley.
Funny when we see what we want to see and it doesn’t quite match up to reality
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You know whats backwards? the thread title isn’t just about Sauce ….its about both…& yet it seems critcism of Stingley and his selection is fair game….yet any criticism of the “sauce” tends to send you fan boys into a fit of rage…

Miss me with that “my” guy vs “your” guy…thats you sauce fans’ deal lol.
 
76Texan said:
For me, it's to question Caserio's ability
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I don’t know that his “ability” was in question. If Stingley were healthy he was considered by some the best CB in this draft, by others the 2nd best CB in this draft.

He’s proven himself healthy (now watch me jinx him).

the only thing questionable on draft night was Caserio’s penchant for gambling.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don’t know that his “ability” was in question. If Stingley were healthy he was considered by some the best CB in this draft, by others the 2nd best CB in this draft.

He’s proven himself healthy (now watch me jinx him).

the only thing questionable on draft night was Caserio’s penchant for gambling.
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I have no idea what you based it on.

Stingley's game film last year was meh.

The game film in his rookie year was pretty good, but nothing dominant (not even close).
He got a little more accolades for being a Freshman.

You have to watch a guy play throughout his career.
One year is a small sample size (the opponents were not all that great).

I don't know how a scout can project him as the best with the compilation of tapes, not to mention the measurables.

Heck, even Steelbtexan said that he prefers Sauce.

But then when I asked him whether he'd be satisfied with Watson while Mahomes is still on board, he can't answer the question.
 
76Texan said:
I have no idea what you based it on.

Stingley's game film last year was meh.

The game film in his rookie year was pretty good, but nothing dominant (not even close).
He got a little more accolades for being a Freshman.

You have to watch a guy play throughout his career.
One year is a small sample size (the opponents were not all that great).

I don't know how a scout can project him as the best with the compilation of tapes, not to mention the measurables.

Heck, even Steelbtexan said that he prefers Sauce.

But then when I asked him whether he'd be satisfied with Watson while Mahomes is still on board, he can't answer the question.
Click to expand...
Oh I can answer, I just don't prefer to spend my time going down that rabbit hole.

Everybody already knows what I think on that topic.
 
76Texan said:
I have no idea what you based it on.

Stingley's game film last year was meh.

The game film in his rookie year was pretty good, but nothing dominant (not even close).
He got a little more accolades for being a Freshman.

You have to watch a guy play throughout his career.
One year is a small sample size (the opponents were not all that great).

I don't know how a scout can project him as the best with the compilation of tapes, not to mention the measurables.

Heck, even Steelbtexan said that he prefers Sauce.

But then when I asked him whether he'd be satisfied with Watson while Mahomes is still on board, he can't answer the question.
Click to expand...

bro WTF are u talking about?

the opponents weren’t all that good in his freshman year? Wasnt that the year they won the national championship?

Stingley could be projected as the better of the 2 by scouts b/c he has the prototypical measureables of a cb…this isnt just me saying this…here’s LZ draft profile write up on him

1668381389261.png

Check the 1st bullet point.


here is the “weaknesses” portion of LZ’s draft prospect profile on Stingley.

1668381008151.png

Here is Sauce’s

1668381062009.png

1668382751836.jpeg

the only thing that stands out is that Stingley was discounted a little b/c of his injury & thus hadn’t played but just 10 games…that was the main concern with every single write up on him. otherwise he was viewed as that prototype & was considered to have the better measureables.

Sauce was viewed as somewhat atypical…tall and lean..those guys have issues staying low out of their breaks to keep up with the short, shiftier WRs…and Sauce has shown that tendency at times..which is why the Jets have at times taken Sauce off those types and stuck Reed on them..hell thats what pretty much happened in the Bills game after the Diggs big play.

that’s why i find it funny that newbies in here talking about i have to search-for imaginary flaws with Sauce. My main concern about him all along is listed in bullet point 4 of his weaknesses…
 
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Mr teX said:
bro WTF are u talking about?

the opponents weren’t all that good in his freshman year? Wasnt that the year they won the national championship?

Stingley could be projected as the better of the 2 by scouts b/c he has the prototypical measureables of a cb…this isnt just me saying this…here’s LZ draft profile write up on him

View attachment 11072

Check the 1st bullet point.


here is the “weaknesses” portion of LZ’s draft prospect profile on Stingley.

View attachment 11068

Here is Sauce’s

View attachment 11069

the only thing that stands out is that Stingley was discounted a little b/c of his injury & thus hadn’t played but just 10 games…that was the main concern with every single write up on him. otherwise he was viewed as that prototype & was considered to have the better measureables.

Sauce was viewed as somewhat atypical…tall and lean..those guys have issues staying low out of their breaks to keep up with the short, shiftier WRs…and Sauce has shown that tendency at times..which is why the Jets have at times taken Sauce off those types and stuck Reed on them..hell thats what pretty much happened in the Bills game after the Diggs big play.

that’s why i find it funny that newbies in here talking about i have to search-for imaginary flaws with Sauce. My main concern about him all along is listed in bullet point 4 of his weaknesses…
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I hate that you had to post all of that just to get your point across to him.
 
Mr teX said:
bro WTF are u talking about?

the opponents weren’t all that good in his freshman year? Wasnt that the year they won the national championship?

Stingley could be projected as the better of the 2 by scouts b/c he has the prototypical measureables of a cb…this isnt just me saying this…here’s LZ draft profile write up on him

View attachment 11072

Check the 1st bullet point.


here is the “weaknesses” portion of LZ’s draft prospect profile on Stingley.

View attachment 11068

Here is Sauce’s

View attachment 11069

the only thing that stands out is that Stingley was discounted a little b/c of his injury & thus hadn’t played but just 10 games…that was the main concern with every single write up on him. otherwise he was viewed as that prototype & was considered to have the better measureables.

Sauce was viewed as somewhat atypical…tall and lean..those guys have issues staying low out of their breaks to keep up with the short, shiftier WRs…and Sauce has shown that tendency at times..which is why the Jets have at times taken Sauce off those types and stuck Reed on them..hell thats what pretty much happened in the Bills game after the Diggs big play.

that’s why i find it funny that newbies in here talking about i have to search-for imaginary flaws with Sauce. My main concern about him all along is listed in bullet point 4 of his weaknesses…
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Look at the schedule I mentioned in the above post.

That was also the year the Tigers had 14 guys drafted.
 
76Texan said:
Here's the schedule.
www.sports-reference.com

2019 LSU Fighting Tigers Schedule and Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2019 LSU Fighting Tigers Schedule and Results
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
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An SEC schedule is a pretty damn great schedule to come in an not only play well but do it as a frosh…& on a national championship team…Texas as an out of schedule opponent as well..no slouch. I remember watching that game and he held his own against a seasoned Texas team led by Erhlinger.

furthermore, you cant knock Stingley for the opponent’s he faced not being all the great…then turn around a praise Sauce for the 1 or 2 matchups he saw for his entire career against those same SEC opponents…Like Jameson Williams that he barely faced before he got injured in the BCS bowl game.

Everyone now knows why his tape wasnt as good in 2020…he was injured..same in 2021…So the injury concerns were valid…but to say from a measureables standpoint he was inferior to Sauce? Not accurate.

its just preference. It really started with Cromartie, but Since Sherman, the taller leaner guys like Sauce are getting more run….as long as you can pair them with a more prototypical cb. You saw this with Revis and Cromartie in NY with Rex…Saleh has duplicated this pairing twice now once in in SF With Sherman and now in NY with Reed and Sauce.

the way you beat it is you have to be 3 deep at WR…thats why Cincy ate them alive earlier this year with Chase, Higgins and Boyd.
 
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Mr teX said:
An SEC schedule is a pretty damn great schedule to come in an not only play well but do it as a frosh…& on a national championship team…Texas as an out of schedule opponent as well..no slouch. I remember watching that game and he held his own against a seasoned Texas team led by Erhlinger.

furthermore, you cant knock Stingley for the opponent’s he faced not being all the great…then turn around a praise Sauce for the 1 or 2 matchups he saw for his entire career against those same SEC opponents…Like Jameson Williams that he barely faced before he got injured in the BCS bowl game.

Everyone now knows why his tape wasnt as good in 2020…he was injured..same in 2021…So the injury concerns were valid…but to say from a measureables standpoint he was inferior to Sauce? Not accurate.

its just preference. It really started with Cromartie, but Since Sherman, the taller leaner guys like Sauce are getting more run….as long as you can pair them with a more prototypical cb. You saw this with Revis and Cromartie in NY with Rex…Saleh has duplicated this pairing twice now once in in SF With Sherman and now in NY with Reed and Sauce.

the way you beat it is you have to be 3 deep at WR…thats why Cincy ate them alive earlier this year with Chase, Higgins and Boyd.
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The SEC overall not is not known as a pass happy haven.
It's more about tough defenses.

On the one hand, you've been telling us that Sauce has been helped by the front 7 of the Jets.

Well, Stingley was the beneficiary of not just that, but also of a very potent LSU offense.

Many of those guys are now Sauce's opponents.

Sauce isn't even a benefactor of a potent offense now.

Stingley had got all of the supports he needed on that LSU team.
 
Mr teX said:
You know whats backwards? the thread title isn’t just about Sauce ….its about both…& yet it seems critcism of Stingley and his selection is fair game….yet any criticism of the “sauce” tends to send you fan boys into a fit of rage…

Miss me with that “my” guy vs “your” guy…thats you sauce fans’ deal lol.
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Rage? I’ve the entire thread and the rage seems to come from those who have picked Sauces game apart to try and find ways to downgrade him. It’s all hype. Worse its NY hype. Those great plays are penalties. He’s handsy. He plays man. He plays behind a better DL. A better HC. He wouldn’t be as good on Houston. My favorite, he’s a OBJ waiting to happen.
 
76Texan said:
The SEC overall not is not known as a pass happy haven.
It's more about tough defenses.

On the one hand, you've been telling us that Sauce has been helped by the front 7 of the Jets.

Well, Stingley was the beneficiary of not just that, but also of a very potent LSU offense.

Many of those guys are now Sauce's opponents.

Sauce isn't even a benefactor of a potent offense now.

Stingley had got all of the supports he needed on that LSU team.
Click to expand...

Thinking…

Stingley benefited from a good defense and good offense and that’s why his college numbers are better.

Sauce benefits from a good defense and a good offense in the NFL and that’s why his NFL numbers are better.

So both are great players when they are on a good team. Put them on a bad team then they look bad as well.

This must be a team sport.

Has anyone said that both players are good and going to have good careers?
 
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76Texan said:
The SEC overall not is not known as a pass happy haven.
It's more about tough defenses.

On the one hand, you've been telling us that Sauce has been helped by the front 7 of the Jets.

Well, Stingley was the beneficiary of not just that, but also of a very potent LSU offense.

Many of those guys are now Sauce's opponents.

Sauce isn't even a benefactor of a potent offense now.

Stingley had got all of the supports he needed on that LSU team.
Click to expand...

yup..except you’re wrong about the SEC. Its bot the big 12, but there’s plenty of passing going on.

And what you’re not factoring in…or downplaying is that Sting did what he did as a freshman…and the fact that his offense as good as it was put more pressure on him. What do you think their opponents did when they were behind late in games? They threw it more. Who do you think they chose to throw it at..the jr. Kary Vincent….or the freshman Stingley? Thats why he got so many picks that year. They kept testing him and he kept delivering.
 
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LF911SC said:
Rage? I’ve the entire thread and the rage seems to come from those who have picked Sauces game apart to try and find ways to downgrade him. It’s all hype. Worse its NY hype. Those great plays are penalties. He’s handsy. He plays man. He plays behind a better DL. A better HC. He wouldn’t be as good on Houston. My favorite, he’s a OBJ waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

your reading comprehension is utter trash…No wonder you mad..
 
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JB said:
I doubt he gets it even seeing it in black & white. He knows what the stats and PFF and highlights tell him
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What have you learned that tell us stats, PFF and highlights are wrong? Because Sauces stats put him at the top of all CBs and that kills your narrative. So just keep repeating that they prove nothing while covering pretty much a wide picture.
 
Mr teX said:
yup..except you’re wrong about the SEC. Its bot the big 12, but there’s plenty of passing going on.

And what you’re not factoring in…or downplaying is that Sting did what he did as a freshman…and the fact that his offense as good as it was put more pressure on him. What do you think their opponents did when they were behind late in games? They threw it more. Who do you think they chose to throw it at..the jr. Kary Vincent….or the freshman Stingley? Thats why he got so many picks that year. They kept testing him and he kept delivering.
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Everything you criticized Sauce for.
Namely, a front seven.
Stingley never saw any comparable QB/WR duo, in the NCAA.
 
Mr teX said:
yup..except you’re wrong about the SEC. Its bot the big 12, but there’s plenty of passing going on.

And what you’re not factoring in…or downplaying is that Sting did what he did as a freshman…and the fact that his offense as good as it was put more pressure on him. What do you think their opponents did when they were behind late in games? They threw it more. Who do you think they chose to throw it at..the jr. Kary Vincent….or the freshman Stingley? Thats why he got so many picks that year. They kept testing him and he kept delivering.
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Tell me who was the greatest QB/WR Stingley had faced.
And tell me that his front seven was trash, too .
 
76Texan said:
Everything you criticized Sauce for.
Namely, a front seven.
Stingley never saw any comparable QB/WR duo, in the NCAA.
Click to expand...

:hankpalm: if you dont see the problem in what you’re asserting here, then you’re more lost than i thought…either way im just gonna bow out…
 
TexansBull said:
Thinking…

Stingley benefited from a good defense and good offense and that’s why his college numbers are better.

Sauce benefits from a good defense and a good offense in the NFL and that’s why his NFL numbers are better.

So both are great players when they are on a good team. Put them on a bad team then they look bad as well.

This must be a team sport.

Has anyone said that both players are good and going to have good careers?
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Patrick Mahomes was on a not so good team in college.

Deshaun Watson was on a pretty to very good team in college.

A few of us still rated
Mahomes higher.
 
Mr teX said:
:hankpalm: if you dont see the problem in what you’re asserting here, then you’re more lost than i thought…either way im just gonna bow out…
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Better take a time out.

I know you don't take "losing" an argument easily.

Until the next time.
And you can betcha that I've been rewatching more games from both the Jets and the Texans.
:)

I had watched them all; it's just a matter of re-zeroing in the things at hand.
 
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LF911SC said:
What have you learned that tell us stats, PFF and highlights are wrong? Because Sauces stats put him at the top of all CBs and that kills your narrative. So just keep repeating that they prove nothing while covering pretty much a wide picture.
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I said nothing about you. The comment I replied to was addressing one individual. Trouble seeing the entire message line? Not everything is addressed to or about you
 
76Texan said:
Tell me who was the greatest QB/WR Stingley had faced.
And tell me that his front seven was trash, too .
Click to expand...
76Texan said:
Better take a time out.

I know you don't take "losing" an argument easily.

Until the next time.
And you can betcha that I've been rewatching more games from both the Jets and the Texans.
:)

I had watched them all; it's just a matter of re-zeroing in the things at hand.
Click to expand...

Yeah…go rewatch…clear u need to. The only one whose worried about losing an argument is you…b/c you triggered about criticism of your “sauce”…
 
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JB said:
I said nothing about you. The comment I replied to was addressing one individual. Trouble seeing the entire message line? Not everything is addressed to or about you
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I didn’t say you said it to me. I got it was to someone else. I asked what you’ve gleamed from the highlights you’ve seen of Sauce or wherever you’ve looked to come to your conclusions.
If you don’t have an answer that’s fine but dont try to turn it around by accusing me of making it about me. It was a simple question.
 
76Texan said:
I do .

Do you?
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then you’d know that that 2019 game LSU vs. Bama was epic…and the talent on that field for BOTH teams was ridiculous…

Stingley got absolutely torched by Devonta Smith……..but thats was 3 year letterman, future hiesman trophy winner devonta smith…torching a freshman. Flanked by Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs…with a Jaylen Waddle on punt & kick return duties….getting a few offensive snaps here and there…with Tua throwing them the ball.

Sauce in his entire college career probably never saw 3 WR’s total as talented as that group that was in that 1 game…or a qb either

& you have the nerve to say that the competiton wasnt that good that he faced?

:spit:
 
Whomever drafted Stingley over Sauce, it was based on tape from 3 yrs ago vs present tape. Stingley was oft injured and didn't really play well when he was healthy his last 2 seasons in college. Sauce was a dog in Cincy last year and healthy,those are just facts. The Jackson kid in NE has been awesome also, but that's the magic of hoodie mostly I think. Saleh is a cover 2/3 coach at heart so to say Sauce isn't playing alot of zone is false. We will see down the road which was the best pick.
 
Mr teX said:
then you’d know that that 2019 game LSU vs. Bama was epic…and the talent on that field for BOTH teams was ridiculous…

Stingley got absolutely torched by Devonta Smith……..but thats was 3 year letterman, future hiesman trophy winner devonta smith…torching a freshman. Flanked by Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs…with a Jaylen Waddle on punt & kick return duties….getting a few offensive snaps here and there…with Tua throwing them the ball.

Sauce in his entire college career probably never saw 3 WR’s total as talented as that group that was in that 1 game…or a qb either

& you have the nerve to say that the competiton wasnt that good that he faced?

:spit:
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Well, as you said, the game didn't paint Stingley in a good light , right?

Now, even if Stingley had shown well, it doesn't mean that "for any reason", it can be an excused for his mediocre game tape the year before he was drafted.

Do I draft him in the know that he will come back to be better than "his potential" after injury?

Do I have a crystal ball?
No I don't.

And it's the high first round.

What is it that you think it's worth the gamble?
 
Mr teX said:
then you’d know that that 2019 game LSU vs. Bama was epic…and the talent on that field for BOTH teams was ridiculous…

Stingley got absolutely torched by Devonta Smith……..but thats was 3 year letterman, future hiesman trophy winner devonta smith…torching a freshman. Flanked by Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs…with a Jaylen Waddle on punt & kick return duties….getting a few offensive snaps here and there…with Tua throwing them the ball.

Sauce in his entire college career probably never saw 3 WR’s total as talented as that group that was in that 1 game…or a qb either

& you have the nerve to say that the competiton wasnt that good that he faced?

:spit:
Click to expand...
 
LF911SC said:
I didn’t say you said it to me. I got it was to someone else. I asked what you’ve gleamed from the highlights you’ve seen of Sauce or wherever you’ve looked to come to your conclusions.
If you don’t have an answer that’s fine but dont try to turn it around by accusing me of making it about me. It was a simple question.
Click to expand...
What conclusions? I just mentioned that print info won't change some others conclusions. Stop trying to pick a fight and just put me on ignore. You aren't worth my time
 
LF911SC said:
What have you learned that tell us stats, PFF and highlights are wrong? Because Sauces stats put him at the top of all CBs and that kills your narrative. So just keep repeating that they prove nothing while covering pretty much a wide picture.
Click to expand...

I know that PFF said BOB should've lost many games he won.

PFF is a useful tool, but it's not the be all end all.
 
76Texan said:
Everything you criticized Sauce for.
Namely, a front seven.
Stingley never saw any comparable QB/WR duo, in the NCAA.
Click to expand...

I would say the SEC had some pretty good WR's back then. One Stingley played against today. Slayton

Yep, Smith torched him, but that was his only really bad game. Stingley did much better when matched up against Smith last week.
 
The main problem I have with Steelbtexan is that he prefered Mahomes over Watson (same as I), but we just couldn't get there to take him, but then when we also like Sauce better than Stingley, and the Texans were in position to do it, but they didn't do it.
Instead of showing his disagreement, Steelbtexan began to play the Nick Caserio's card
steelbtexan said:
I know that PFF said BOB should've lost many games he won.

PFF is a useful tool, but it's not the be all end all.
Click to expand...
Link please.
 
steelbtexan said:
I would say the SEC had some pretty good WR's back then. One Stingley played against today. Slayton

Yep, Smith torched him, but that was his only really bad game. Stingley did much better when matched up against Smith last week.
Click to expand...
Surely the SEC have had good offensive players, but have you ever endorsed a QB from the SEC?
 
steelbtexan said:
I would say the SEC had some pretty good WR's back then. One Stingley played against today. Slayton

Yep, Smith torched him, but that was his only really bad game. Stingley did much better when matched up against Smith last week.
Click to expand...
And why did you like Sauce better than Stingley?

It sounds like you're making excuses for Caserio.
 
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