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Texansballer74 said:
Heck yeah. Why not? Even O’Brien said he OUT PLAYED his contract. He is up there with M. Thomas and is way better than A. Copper.
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Because 1. I think Nuk isn't going to age well 2. I think the money can be better spent elsewhere. Particularly in yrs 3-5 of that contract. Like on the defensive side of the ball.

Let's see how the WFV/Cobb/Stills/draft pick look before passing judgement.
 
dream_team said:
Don't you get it? He totes both sides, so that no matter what happens, he'll come out claiming he's been right all along. In some posts he'll say BOB should be fired, then the very next post... let's wait & see how well he does now that he has total control. That's why it's not worth engaging. You can't debate/discuss with irrational.
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51-7

I just choose to be positive. Because BOB's not going anywhere. You need to learn to deal with this.
 
mussop said:
the trade has played out. The value wasn’t there.
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My thoughts exactly. We didn't get proper value, so IMO that trade will always be a fail to me.

It's like trading our #40 pick to the Patriots for pick #100, straight up. That's a bad trade, no matter what ends up happening in the future. You don't say, "Hold on, let's see who we end up picking. The guy we get at #100 could end up being better than what the Pats get at #40."
 
steelbtexan said:
51-7

I just choose to be positive. Because BOB's not going anywhere. You need to learn to deal with this.
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Then why not be positive about DW4 as well? He's not going anywhere either. You need to learn to deal with this.

In some posts, you'll say fire BOB & trade DW4, we need to start over. And in other posts... "I just choose to be positive"???

Look man, I wanna believe you, just stop contradicting yourself.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'll give him one season without BO'b, then we'll know. With BO'b this is year 1 of a 3 year rebuild that started in 2014.
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Yr 2 without RS, how long did you figure it would take to clean up the mess he left? I figured 3 years.
 
dream_team said:
Then why not be positive about DW4 as well? He's not going anywhere either. You need to learn to deal with this.

In some posts, you'll say fire BOB & trade DW4, we need to start over. And in other posts... "I just choose to be positive"???

Look man, I wanna believe you, just stop contradicting yourself.
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I'm fine with it. Because there's nothing I can do about it.

I do want BOB gone along with DW4 and bring in Elliot Wolf/Highsmith/ Sean Jones and the gang. That would be best case scenario for me.

I just choose not to butch about it or bury my head in the sand as to what the issues are. There are issues on all sides of the equation that can't be solved without a total housecleaning.
 
Number19 said:
First year he's in total control. I'm with Steelb that this coming training camp and season will be interesting to follow. It is not the change that most wanted, but it is change. OB knows what he wants and is building toward. We don't know. All we can do is guess and speculate. We need improvement to get over the hump. There should be no disagreement that OB, as a coach, knows this as well.
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What O’Brien wants are people that don’t question his authority or his decisions. What will it take in “year one” to get you to the point that the changes O’Brien has made were the wrong ones? Two years of a losing record? Three? Because O’Brien pretty much admitted today that it’s going to take more than a year for them to improve. Not at all a message Texans fans want to hear in a HC’s 6th year. A new “real” GM would have come in here after reviewing O’Brien’s screw ups (from the tunnel cursing out fans to the decisions that turned the tide in that historical loss in KC) and fired his ass.
 
banned1976 said:
What O’Brien wants are people that don’t question his authority or his decisions. What will it take in “year one” to get you to the point that the changes O’Brien has made were the wrong ones? Two years of a losing record? Three? Because O’Brien pretty much admitted today that it’s going to take more than a year for them to improve. Not at all a message Texans fans want to hear in a HC’s 6th year. A new “real” GM would have come in here after reviewing O’Brien’s screw ups (from the tunnel cursing out fans to the decisions that turned the tide in that historical loss in KC) and fired his ass.
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Let him have a losing season without a starting QB 1st and we'll talk. It appears to me he doesn't want a top heavy salaried team. He's going to pay DW4/Tunsil/Watt top $$$$ and will pay the mid tier guys that he wants on the team well. This along with the draft is called roster building.
 
steelbtexan said:
My opinion isn't set on stone. My question is how much time do you give DW4? Some of DW4's issues can't be fixed. IMHO. We differ on this and always will.

The other difference is RS was an anvil to this org for over a decade and it takes awhile to overcome such incompetence. The fact that you won't even give him 1 draft that he's totally accountable for speaks volumes.

Look we are never going to agree, I'm looking at things optimistically and in the future. You're looking at thi gs in the past tense. Why am I looking at things this way? Because I'm a Texans fan and I hope for the best. Even though I will admit things probably won't work out. But BOB's going to be here 2-3 years whether y'all like it or not. Y'all can hope for him to fail all y'all want but that's cutting your nose off to spite your face. Is it that important to be right?

On the bright side, we know who's in charge and who to blame if things go bad for the 1st time in franchise history. No more of the boardroom crap.
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How are we as fans going to rate Watson's season if the running game falls completely flat?

Hope OB and/or Kelly have an extensive "2-Minute - No-Huddle - Run-N-Shoot" chapter in their playbook if Johnson & Johnson fail to produce or provide a threat in the running game.
 
Mr teX said:
I get cheaper...but who in FA would be better? I already went over the top guys that were available. I also don’t think you can count on a rookie 3rd or 4th rounder to come in and be better let alone give you more than a guy who at a minimum can likely give you 1400-1600 total yards....as long as he can stay healthy.
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Why not.....all he's done since the 2016 season is produce 1,318 yards on 363 carries for a 3.1 average per carry and 9 TD's. He was targeted 132 times, had 92 receptions for 883 yards for an average of 10.1 per reception and 7 TD's.

He looks more like another 3rd down receiving back who you're holding out hope for develops into a true dual threat 3 down back. While we're hoping, might as well include Duke Johnson into being the other dual threat 3 down back.

Texans are really rolling the dice on their season and the health of Watson with the J & J tag team.......me, I'd be drafting a RB in the event this salvage experiment doesn't pan out.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm fine with it. Because there's nothing I can do about it.

I do want BOB gone along with DW4 and bring in Elliot Wolf/Highsmith/ Sean Jones and the gang. That would be best case scenario for me.

I just choose not to butch about it or bury my head in the sand as to what the issues are. There are issues on all sides of the equation that can't be solved without a total housecleaning.
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In all fairness, you have lobbied to give OB a fighting chance post RS and BG....I tend to agree with the RS portion of this but still hold reservations in regards to BG. However, in the same vein, I would definitely want to see what Watson could do with a new coaching staff post OB before I fully commit to him not being worthy of wearing a Texans uniform or having no upside left in the tank.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because 1. I think Nuk isn't going to age well 2. I think the money can be better spent elsewhere. Particularly in yrs 3-5 of that contract. Like on the defensive side of the ball.

Let's see how the WFV/Cobb/Stills/draft pick look before passing judgement.
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Having 2 running backs that can block and receive on 3rd downs is going to boost our passing game as well. No idea how exactly they’re gonna deploy them, but having David Johnson who’s caught 80 passes one year vs. Carlos Hyde who caught 10 last year is a huge boost. Paired with Duke who can also catch 40+ passes. Like I say I don’t know how they’re gonna get David and Duke to both benefit from their receiving capabilities, but it’s definitely a different dimension than last year.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
How are we as fans going to rate Watson's season if the running game falls completely flat?

Hope OB and/or Kelly have an extensive "2-Minute - No-Huddle - Run-N-Shoot" chapter in their playbook if Johnson & Johnson fail to produce or provide a threat in the running game.
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What makes you think the running game is going to fall flat next yr?

What you should be asking is if the running game is as good as last yr and DW4 plays like he did in the last 5 games of the season, what do you do then?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
How are we as fans going to rate Watson's season if the running game falls completely flat?

Hope OB and/or Kelly have an extensive "2-Minute - No-Huddle - Run-N-Shoot" chapter in their playbook if Johnson & Johnson fail to produce or provide a threat in the running game.
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If the running game falls flat, it will be more on the coaches than players. I’m still very curious to find out how they plan to use David and Duke Johnson together. They’re both 3rd down receiving backs who can play all 3 downs (David more so). Are they gonna get their moneys worth and use David as a 3 down workhorse and underuse Duke, or underuse David and overpay him to split carries with Duke?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
How are we as fans going to rate Watson's season if the running game falls completely flat?

Hope OB and/or Kelly have an extensive "2-Minute - No-Huddle - Run-N-Shoot" chapter in their playbook if Johnson & Johnson fail to produce or provide a threat in the running game.
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He refuses to believe that coaching and the system plays big dividends. Bill Obrien wants to have a dominant running game. Old school football where the running game opens up the passing game. Dude thinks this is all on Watson.
 
Texansballer74 said:
He refuses to believe that coaching and the system plays big dividends. Bill Obrien wants to have a dominant running game. Old school football where the running game opens up the passing game. Dude thinks this is all on Watson.
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Nope

BOB shares blame too. Bottom line is everything good that happens isn't all DW4's great and happened in spite of BOB. Same with BOB, all the good that happens isn't because BOB is a great HC and DW4 is a bad QB.

BTW, in today's game the pass sets up the run most of the time.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope

BOB shares blame too. Bottom line is everything good that happens isn't all DW4's great and happened in spite of BOB. Same with BOB, all the good that happens isn't because BOB is a great HC and DW4 is a bad QB.

BTW, in today's game the pass sets up the run most of the time.
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Then tell me why were we running the ball on first down 60-70% of the time.

And disagreed with Watson being a bad quarterback. I never in my life heard anybody say a top 10 darn quarterback is a bad QB. Wow unheard of but the hate is very prevalent every time you post about Watson.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Then tell me why were we running the ball on first down 60-70% of the time.

And disagreed with Watson being a bad quarterback. I never in my life heard anybody say a top 10 darn quarterback is a bad QB. Wow unheard of but the hate is very prevalent every time you post about Watson.
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Watson being a top 10 QB is debatable. Depends what criteria you’re using.
 
RGV82 said:
Watson being a top 10 QB is debatable. Depends what criteria you’re using.
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Debatable: how so , he's in the top.10 in every category. Was in the top 5 until the last 5 games of the season.

If you don't think so that is your prerogative but every top NFL commentator has him in the top 8.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Debatable: how so , he's in the top.10 in every category. Was in the top 5 until the last 5 games of the season.

If you don't think so that is your prerogative but every top NFL commentator has him in the top 8.
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That’s all good on the stat sheet. All I’m saying is if you asked me to pick my top 10 QBs I would want to start for my team for one season, he probably wouldn’t make my list.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
How are we as fans going to rate Watson's season if the running game falls completely flat?

Hope OB and/or Kelly have an extensive "2-Minute - No-Huddle - Run-N-Shoot" chapter in their playbook if Johnson & Johnson fail to produce or provide a threat in the running game.
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I won’t fault DW4 for a season where he steps back in that situation. It will be on BoB b/c bringing in Johnson was the gamble he took. The way I’m looking at all these moves is I’m giving the guy latitude to shape this team and roster the way he sees fit. As long we continue to make decent progress, I’ll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. The MINUTE that ceases to be the case, I want him gone...

I think that’s how Cal put it to him when he took over which is why we all of a sudden started seeing all these seemingly over aggressive trades these last few years. His ass is on the line with Cal just as much as anybody.

having said that though, there’s just no legitimate reason to believe that Johnson and Johnson can’t at least give us what Hyde and Johnson....or even Miller and Blue have given us in the past.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Then tell me why were we running the ball on first down 60-70% of the time.

And disagreed with Watson being a bad quarterback. I never in my life heard anybody say a top 10 darn quarterback is a bad QB. Wow unheard of but the hate is very prevalent every time you post about Watson.
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BOB was trying to 1. take time off of the clock and keep the defense off of the field. (Complimentary Football) 2. Limit DW4's chances for making mistakes.

BTW, I agree with you, I wish they would've thrown more on 1st down, using the pass to set up the run. It appeared BOB didn't trust DW4 to make good decisions. This is why I think they're an awful match. Hopefully this changes with Kelly calling the plays and we can really find out how good DW4 is before they have to pay him 35 mil per yr.
 
RGV82 said:
That’s all good on the stat sheet. All I’m saying is if you asked me to pick my top 10 QBs I would want to start for my team for one season, he probably wouldn’t make my list.
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10 great/good games and 7 fair/bad games doesn't equal a top 10 QB.
 
steelbtexan said:
What you should be asking is if the running game is as good as last yr and DW4 plays like he did in the last 5 games of the season, what do you do then?
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:hankpalm:

steelbtexan said:
Then there are others that want to see how things work out before passing judgement.
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steelbtexan said:
The difference is some on here are willing to see how things play out before passing judgement. While others are blinded by their hate of all things BOB. (This is kinda like another form of TDS)
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steelbtexan said:
BOB was trying to 1. take time off of the clock and keep the defense off of the field. (Complimentary Football) 2. Limit DW4's chances for making mistakes.

BTW, I agree with you, I wish they would've thrown more on 1st down, using the pass to set up the run. It appeared BOB didn't trust DW4 to make good decisions. This is why I think they're an awful match. Hopefully this changes with Kelly calling the plays and we can really find out how good DW4 is before they have to pay him 35 mil per yr.
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I can dig your 2nd paragraph to a degree. I don’t think it had nothing to do with trusting. It was Obrien forcing his will as usual. He’s what one would call the ultimate control freak. Like I pointed out to you before, after Watson’s rookie season when we had great fireworks going on, easily scoring 30+ a game, O’Brien reverted back to his brand of football the following year. There’s a very familiar quote,” don’t fix it what’s not broken “. Now don’t go all Steel on me here, try to read and understand exactly what I am saying here. I understand what O’Brien is doing here. He wants to established his own footprints on the game. Typical every coach in his position does. But sometimes you have to either adapt to your players skill sets or slowly incorporate your type of brand. This is why I’m so adamant about how this coaching staff failing these players. When you see your quarterback struggling, I’m in the belief that you have to dial it back and help get him into a rhythm. You also have to slowly feed him when incorporating your high tech system. But again once you seen your QB healthy then you should’ve went back to what worked in his rookie year, then slowly threw in your specific offensive brand.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I can dig your 2nd paragraph to a degree. I don’t think it had nothing to do with trusting. It was Obrien forcing his will as usual. He’s what one would call the ultimate control freak. Like I pointed out to you before, after Watson’s rookie season when we had great fireworks going on, easily scoring 30+ a game, O’Brien reverted back to his brand of football the following year. There’s a very familiar quote,” don’t fix it what’s not broken “. Now don’t go all Steel on me here, try to read and understand exactly what I am saying here. I understand what O’Brien is doing here. He wants to established his own footprints on the game. Typical every coach in his position does. But sometimes you have to either adapt to your players skill sets or slowly incorporate your type of brand. This is why I’m so adamant about how this coaching staff failing these players. When you see your quarterback struggling, I’m in the belief that you have to dial it back and help get him into a rhythm. You also have to slowly feed him when incorporating your high tech system. But again once you seen your QB healthy then you should’ve went back to what worked in his rookie year, then slowly threw in your specific offensive brand.
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Once DW4 got hurt BOB used the offense HE thought would be able to best protect DW4 particularly behind the awful 2018 OL.

Some QB's you have to slowly feed, some you dont.

See: Jimmy G/Murray/Wilson/LJ etc....

This is why I want BOB/Kelly to run the Ravens offense. Put DW4 in an offense he will be successful and if he gets hurt you move on before paying him 35 mil per yr.
 
steelbtexan said:
Once DW4 got hurt BOB used the offense HE thought would be able to best protect DW4 particularly behind the awful 2018 OL.

Some QB's you have to slowly feed, some you dont.

See: Jimmy G/Murray/Wilson/LJ etc....

This is why I want BOB/Kelly to run the Ravens offense. Put DW4 in an offense he will be successful and if he gets hurt you move on before paying him 35 mil per yr.
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I don't believe that because he ran that same offense with every quarterback we've had.

All of those QB have slowly feed too or the OC catered to their play.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I don't believe that because he ran that same offense with every quarterback we've had.

All of those QB have slowly feed too or the OC catered to their play.
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Disagree

After 3 yrs slowly shouldn't be in the Texans playbook, but it is.

Wilson was playing in a SB, so was Jimmy G and LJ should've been.
 
steelbtexan said:
Disagree

After 3 yrs slowly shouldn't be in the Texans playbook, but it is.

Wilson was playing in a SB, so was Jimmy G and LJ should've been.
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That's because he has a true darn coach. Why is that so hard for you to understand. He also had a darn good running game with a top 3 defense.

Jimmy G is also working with a great offensive minded coach. The 49ers running game this year was top notch. And their defense was beasting it out there.

Jackson coach catered all the way to his strengths. But when it was money time, that stuff was shut down and Jackson couldn't even throw a basic sideline pattern, or in tight windows.
 
steelbtexan said:
Some QB's you have to slowly feed, some you dont.
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You crack me up. In the divisional round, Jimmy G threw for 131 yards. In the NFCCG, he attempted 8 passes and when they opened up the offense in the Super Bowl, he threw two INTs. It's probably one of the weakest post season performances by a QB in NFL history. Seems like when the bright lights came on, Shanny slowly fed him.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the 49ers were able to win a NFCCG with Jimmy G completing 6 passes for 77 yards and the 49ers could still win the game by a score of 37-20?
 
Earl34 said:
You crack me up. In the divisional round, Jimmy G threw for 131 yards. In the NFCCG, he attempted 8 passes and when they opened up the offense in the Super Bowl, he threw two INTs. It's probably one of the weakest post season performances by a QB in NFL history. Seems like when the bright lights came on, Shanny slowly fed him.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the 49ers were able to win a NFCCG with Jimmy G completing 6 passes for 77 yards and the 49ers could still win the game by a score of 37-20?
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Smash mouth football and they had a great defense. But of course our boy will not entertain those facts. It doesn't line up with his hot take on Watson.
 
steelbtexan said:
Well explain how they won 3 and could've been 4 out of 5 games with the team playing like crap (Your words) and having a mouth drooler as a HC.

This is an impossibility.
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I've already explained this to you several times. Man your memory is fading fast as you get older in age.
 
steelbtexan said:
It appears to me he doesn't want a top heavy salaried team. He's going to pay DW4/Tunsil/Watt top $$$$ and will pay the mid tier guys that he wants on the team well. This along with the draft is called roster building.
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This is actually the best way to build a team and I would be fine with this if we weren’t coming out on the short end value wise Transaction after transaction. If it were being done by a good coach or a GM that understands value. Don’t even bother coming back with that division title or now it’s his players crap argument either. Emperor O is a terrible play caller, game manager and player evaluator. He’s making the same boneheaded mistakes tiday that he was making 6years ago. He Doesn’t know when to use time outs, doesn’t have plays ready in key situations, clearly doesn’t have a feel for the game. So yeah, it’s roster building by someone that doesn’t know how to lay a foundation. So keep on sitting there talking about acceptance all you want and good for you. As far as I’m concerned he’s robbing my team. I hate seeing this tool waste another year of these players lives. Just because I won’t accept it doesn’t mean I don’t realize he’s made McNair his *****.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Then tell me why were we running the ball on first down 60-70% of the time.

And disagreed with Watson being a bad quarterback. I never in my life heard anybody say a top 10 darn quarterback is a bad QB. Wow unheard of but the hate is very prevalent every time you post about Watson.
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It's about time to put that repeated weary and inaccurate claim to rest.
In 2019, the Texans passed the ball on 1st down 60.31%
In 2018, the Texans passed the ball on 1st down 60.91%
link
 
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