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David Johnson... welcome to houston

OptimisticTexan said:
OB is evidently under the impression Cobb can replace Hopkins and Johnson can replace Hyde.....otherwise he wouldn't have made the trades he did. Unless he's an idiot!!!! Focus the draft on the trenches and let OB enjoy his off season handy-work.
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Anyone who expects COBB to replace HOPKINS is clueless. Seriously. No one who has ever watched a second of NFL football expects Cobb to replace Hopkins. That is absurd. There are maybe a handful of WRs in the league who could replace Hopkins, and Cobb is not one of them.
 
theCATALYST said:
Pro set (split backs) formation with 2 RBs (Johnson&Johnson) that can both catch. I like the idea.
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That would make OB’s head explode. If he ran a two back set then how could he trot out his spread formation? ~~~
RGV82 said:
I think people will be surprised at how underused Duke will be this year.
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Not me, if he didn’t last year, OB isn’t gonna become some offensive genius overnight.
 
austins23 said:
That would make OB’s head explode. If he ran a two back set then how could he trot out his spread formation? ~~~

Not me, if he didn’t last year, OB isn’t gonna become some offensive genius overnight.
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I would not be surprised if Duke fades in our offense similar to how Dion Lewis did in Tennessee this past year.
 
mussop said:
Really? This offense/Watson needs weapons badly. Compare what we have to KC. No real threat at RB. No real threat at TE. A bunch of meh number twos and threes at best. All this talk about defense in the draft is crazy. We need explosive play makers around Watson badly!
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I'm still under the impression we underutilized the talent we had last season & so far, most of that is still in place. I can not compare our talent to other teams because I believe our game planning was screwed up from the get go. We have deep threats, we have threats to middle of the field & we can attack the flats.

I said we have tools for an explosive offense. Until we get a halfway decent offensive mind directing those tools, it don't matter if we had Kelsey, Kamara, Hopkins, etc...

We need to block better in the run game. We need to get to the second level, we did not do that consistently in 2019. We couldn't even consistently limit penetration. But we have the tools to do it.

IMO, the coaching on this team needs to get a lot better, more so than the weapons we have/don't have.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm still under the impression we underutilized the talent we had last season & so far, most of that is still in place. I can not compare our talent to other teams because I believe our game planning was screwed up from the get go. We have deep threats, we have threats to middle of the field & we can attack the flats.

I said we have tools for an explosive offense. Until we get a halfway decent offensive mind directing those tools, it don't matter if we had Kelsey, Kamara, Hopkins, etc...

We need to block better in the run game. We need to get to the second level, we did not do that consistently in 2019. We couldn't even consistently limit penetration. But we have the tools to do it.

IMO, the coaching on this team needs to get a lot better, more so than the weapons we have/don't have.
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This has pretty much been the case for the last 6 years, yet somehow people think this coach is going to be different all of a sudden.
 
mussop said:
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Watching this just makes me angrier...it's been what two weeks? I'm still fuming over this trade. I still will not watch the Texans until BOB has nothing to do with this organization. I've gotten mad about moves made by this organization before, probably more times than I can remember. But always after a day or two calm down and forget about it. I don't know if it's a culmination of all the stupid moves made by BOB, or the magnitude of this move, moving a top 3 WR who isn't even 30 years old yet for an overrated RB and a second round pick. But I am done with this team until BOB is gone.
 
austins23 said:
That would make OB’s head explode. If he ran a two back set then how could he trot out his spread formation? ~~~

Not me, if he didn’t last year, OB isn’t gonna become some offensive genius overnight.
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My hope is that OB has hung up his OCwannabe hat & embraced the role of HC. I'm hoping moving Carl Smith from QB Coach puts him in position to scout opposing teams to come up with a better game plan than we've been seeing. I think that's where our offense has been breaking down. Way before the game plan is installed. It has looked like we didn't know who we were playing. Playing into their strengths instead of attacking their weaknesses.
 
thunderkyss said:
My hope is that OB has hung up his OCwannabe hat & embraced the role of HC. I'm hoping moving Carl Smith from QB Coach puts him in position to scout opposing teams to come up with a better game plan than we've been seeing. I think that's where our offense has been breaking down. Way before the game plan is installed. It has looked like we didn't know who we were playing. Playing into their strengths instead of attacking their weaknesses.
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Quoted for truth.
 
So I mentioned before, the way David Johnson's contract is being reported doesn't make sense to me. Specifically the $5.1M dead money for 2021. Can any of you help me understand where that $5.1M comes from?

OTC says $2.1M of his 2021 salary becomes fully guaranteed if he's on the roster of the 2020 league year, which we just passed. So I can understand $2.1M of dead money for 2021, but they're showing $6.9M.

David Johnson signed a three year, $39 million contract extension with the Cardinals on September 10, 2018. Johnson's injury guarantee is worth $31,882,500 with $24,682,500 being fully guaranteed at signing. Johnson's full guarantee consists of a $12 million signing bonus, his 2018 and 2019 base salaries, and $5.1 million of his 2020 base salary. If Johnson is on the roster on the 3rd day of the 2019 league year the balance of his 2020 base salary will be fully guaranteed. If on the roster on the 3rd day of the 2020 league year, $2.1 million of Johnson's 2021 salary will become fully guaranteed. Every year of the contract there are $1.05 million in roster bonuses tied to being active. Another $6 million in incentives can increase the value of the contract to $45 million if earned. Our full thoughts on the contract can be read here. Please credit OTC if using this information.
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thunderkyss said:
I'm still under the impression we underutilized the talent we had last season & so far, most of that is still in place. I can not compare our talent to other teams because I believe our game planning was screwed up from the get go. We have deep threats, we have threats to middle of the field & we can attack the flats.

I said we have tools for an explosive offense. Until we get a halfway decent offensive mind directing those tools, it don't matter if we had Kelsey, Kamara, Hopkins, etc...

We need to block better in the run game. We need to get to the second level, we did not do that consistently in 2019. We couldn't even consistently limit penetration. But we have the tools to do it.

IMO, the coaching on this team needs to get a lot better, more so than the weapons we have/don't have.
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This is genius! Cheers to you amigo!
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm still under the impression we underutilized the talent we had last season & so far, most of that is still in place. I can not compare our talent to other teams because I believe our game planning was screwed up from the get go. We have deep threats, we have threats to middle of the field & we can attack the flats.

I said we have tools for an explosive offense. Until we get a halfway decent offensive mind directing those tools, it don't matter if we had Kelsey, Kamara, Hopkins, etc...

We need to block better in the run game. We need to get to the second level, we did not do that consistently in 2019. We couldn't even consistently limit penetration. But we have the tools to do it.

IMO, the coaching on this team needs to get a lot better, more so than the weapons we have/don't have.
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The OL didn't meet the standards I expected of them. Of course if you had Scharping/Howard all yr the OL would've looked alot better.

BTW, Devlin can get the least out of the most out of any coach on the roster. BOB keeping him on and still sucking says alot about BOB. BOB if you dont have a relationship with an OL coach better than Delvin then it's time to go. I can name 2 OL coaches that are better than him and availbe as we speak. (Alexander/Wiley) I would rather see BOB bring in the Ohio St OL coach because DW4 would be most effective in that type offense.
 
steelbtexan said:
The OL didn't meet the standards I expected of them. Of course if you had Scharping/Howard all yr the OL would've looked alot better.

BTW, Devlin can get the least out of the most out of any coach on the roster. BOB keeping him on and still sucking says alot about BOB. BOB if you dont have a relationship with an OL coach better than Delvin then it's time to go. I can name 2 OL coaches that are better than him and availbe as we speak. (Alexander/Wiley) I would rather see BOB bring in the Ohio St OL coach because DW4 would be most effective in that type offense.
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I play golf with a HS Oline coach that would be better than Devlin
 
RGV82 said:
Anyone who expects COBB to replace HOPKINS is clueless. Seriously. No one who has ever watched a second of NFL football expects Cobb to replace Hopkins. That is absurd. There are maybe a handful of WRs in the league who could replace Hopkins, and Cobb is not one of them.
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Right. Cobb was brought on board to improve the slot position.
 
thunderkyss said:
So I mentioned before, the way David Johnson's contract is being reported doesn't make sense to me. Specifically the $5.1M dead money for 2021. Can any of you help me understand where that $5.1M comes from?

OTC says $2.1M of his 2021 salary becomes fully guaranteed if he's on the roster of the 2020 league year, which we just passed. So I can understand $2.1M of dead money for 2021, but they're showing $6.9M.
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Johnson's full guarantee consists of a $12 million signing bonus, his 2018 and 2019 base salaries, and $5.1 million of his 2020 base salary. If Johnson is on the roster on the 3rd day of the 2019 league year the balance of his 2020 base salary will be fully guaranteed. If on the roster on the 3rd day of the 2020 league year, $2.1 million of Johnson's 2021 salary will become fully guaranteed.
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Johnson was on Arizona's roster on the 3rd day of the 2019 league year. Therefore, all of the 2020 salary + $2.1 mil of his 2021 salary are now fully guaranteed.

https://overthecap.com/contract-embed/3934/

So $12.3 million in 2020 dead $$$ if cut this year, $2.1 million in 2021 dead $ if cut next year.

Thanks for making me relive this.
 
Speaking purely on the running back position situation, and taking the Hopkins trade out of the equation, I have been of the firm opinion the Texans should dip into the draft for a running back. Foreman didn't work out, that doesn't mean they should stop trying. I thought in this draft guys like Clyde Edwards-Helaire or Zack Moss would be good options in the 3rd if you want that lone 2nd round pick to be used on a corner or an edge rusher.

I'm just not big on picking up recycled running backs out of the veteran bargain bin. You're just getting running backs that have a higher potential of becoming injury liabilities. And when that liability comes to fruition, you're in a bind. Now you're in a position to take a bigger chance on another cast-off. It worked out with Hyde, but usually it doesn't.

Back to the reality of the recent decisions, IMO the Texans still have to draft a running back for insurance while at the same time addressing the many needs on defense AND the gaping hole at WR. Quality free agents that could have helped the defense have signed with other teams.

Are the Texans in a hopeless situation? No. But they really need to have big success in the draft and a lot of luck on some lower echelon free agents.
 
banned1976 said:
Are the Texans in a hopeless situation? No. But they really need to have big success in the draft and a lot of luck on some lower echelon free agents.
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The Texans have put themselves in a situation that they need that reclamation project, David Johnson, to be successful.

I know it’s not a popular opinion but we need a stud to replace Fulton.
 
banned1976 said:
Back to the reality of the recent decisions, IMO the Texans still have to draft a running back for insurance while at the same time addressing the many needs on defense AND the gaping hole at WR. Quality free agents that could have helped the defense have signed with other teams.

Are the Texans in a hopeless situation? No. But they really need to have big success in the draft and a lot of luck on some lower echelon free agents.
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If the Texans are still committed to running between the tackles, they have to find a RB in the draft that can run between the tackles. The good news is that RBs are pretty much plug and play coming out of college (except for passing situations).
 
Lucky said:
If the Texans are still committed to running between the tackles, they have to find a RB in the draft that can run between the tackles. The good news is that RBs are pretty much plug and play coming out of college (except for passing situations).
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I’m fairly certain we will be drafting a RB somewhere in the later rounds of the draft.
 
RGV82 said:
I’m fairly certain we will be drafting a RB somewhere in the later rounds of the draft.
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I hope you're right.

I hope Dalls/Feaster/Leake or James Robinson is there in the 7th. They would be upgrades over what's already on the roster. The guy I hope they really get is Darrynton Eavns, that guys a stud. If you like Kareem Hunt you will like this guy.
 
banned1976 said:
I’m completely uncertain what the Texans will do in the draft. I had been looking at RB draft prospects today that could wind up with the Texans but I stopped when I realized I was just being foolish.
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I had projected us to take a RB with one of our first few picks but now that we have David Johnson I’m still thinking we’ll draft a RB, but not til the late rounds, if at all.
 
banned1976 said:
I’m completely uncertain what the Texans will do in the draft. I had been looking at RB draft prospects today that could wind up with the Texans but I stopped when I realized I was just being foolish.
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I don't know prospects, I just know this team needs a better pass rush. I'm hoping whoever we get helps the pass rush. Or a magic potion to have a 100% Watt for the whole season.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I've got a feeling the Texans organization will see AJ Dillon as the proper fit in OB's offense.
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Dillon is a 250 pound bruiser who draws comparisons to Derrick Henry and James Conner. I would love to have him here IF we can get him at a reasonable pick and not too early. It would be hard to find a role for him though behind both David and Duke Johnson.
 
RGV82 said:
Dillon is a 250 pound bruiser who draws comparisons to Derrick Henry and James Conner. I would love to have him here IF we can get him at a reasonable pick and not too early. It would be hard to find a role for him though behind both David and Duke Johnson.
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I don't see either Johnson or Johnson as 3 down backs. Both are essentially receiving backs who could be lined up in the backfield or in the slot. Dillon would instantly fill the roll of "tough dirty yards" guy.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I don't see either Johnson or Johnson as 3 down backs. Both are essentially receiving backs who could be lined up in the backfield or in the slot. Dillon would instantly fill the roll of "tough dirty yards" guy.
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That is an accurate assessment of David Johnson coming out of college, but after his Pro Bowl seasons in Arizona, there is no way we traded for David Johnson to play a 3rd down receiving back. With what we gave up for David Johnson and Duke Johnson there is no way we bring in ANOTHER back to play a significant role. If we draft another back, it will be someone for depth. Duke and David Johnson will be our 2 primary backs seeing all the snaps this year.
 
RGV82 said:
That is an accurate assessment of David Johnson coming out of college, but after his Pro Bowl seasons in Arizona, there is no way we traded for David Johnson to play a 3rd down receiving back. With what we gave up for David Johnson and Duke Johnson there is no way we bring in ANOTHER back to play a significant role. If we draft another back, it will be someone for depth. Duke and David Johnson will be our 2 primary backs seeing all the snaps this year.
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How do you see the 2 of them producing this season? Me, I see two 3rd down receiving backs either getting injured or destroying the running game to the point that OB better have a Dillon in the wings instead of making a really bad in-season move to cover for a couple of really bad moves.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
How do you see the 2 of them producing this season? Me, I see two 3rd down receiving backs either getting injured or destroying the running game to the point that OB better have a Dillon in the wings instead of making a really bad in-season move to cover for a couple of really bad moves.
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Duke Johnson is as durable as they come, he’s never missed a game in his 5 year career. David Johnson has been used as a 3 down back and was a Pro Bowler as a 3 down back. My point was, I definitely think we should draft a RB later in the draft, but to be used in a reserve role. He won’t make an impact as long as David and Duke are both healthy.
 
RGV82 said:
That is an accurate assessment of David Johnson coming out of college, but after his Pro Bowl seasons in Arizona, there is no way we traded for David Johnson to play a 3rd down receiving back. With what we gave up for David Johnson and Duke Johnson there is no way we bring in ANOTHER back to play a significant role. If we draft another back, it will be someone for depth. Duke and David Johnson will be our 2 primary backs seeing all the snaps this year.
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My thoughts exactly. We gave up a 3rd for Duke. Then we gave up Nuk + 10 mil for David. There's got to be no way we'll use a significant draft pick on another RB... right? I guess I should stop giving BOB benefit of the doubt.
 
RGV82 said:
That is an accurate assessment of David Johnson coming out of college, but after his Pro Bowl seasons in Arizona, there is no way we traded for David Johnson to play a 3rd down receiving back. With what we gave up for David Johnson and Duke Johnson there is no way we bring in ANOTHER back to play a significant role. If we draft another back, it will be someone for depth. Duke and David Johnson will be our 2 primary backs seeing all the snaps this year.
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Do you know the type of Coach we have in Bill O’Brien? He’s not your typical head coach. Nobody has a clue how this joker will utilize these backs. But I do agree David was brought here to be a three down back. Now if he doesn’t come here with the right attitude. He could easily fall into BOB doghouse. I do believe they will draft another RB. I’m hoping it will be Dillion as well. The youngster imo will push both of the Johnsons and probably be able to get a few carriers. But you’re also drafting him for the future.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Do you know the type of Coach we have in Bill O’Brien? He’s not your typical head coach. Nobody has a clue how this joker will utilize these backs. But I do agree David was brought here to be a three down back. Now if he doesn’t come here with the right attitude. He could easily fall into BOB doghouse. I do believe they will draft another RB. I’m hoping it will be Dillion as well. The youngster imo will push both of the Johnsons and probably be able to get a few carriers. But you’re also drafting him for the future.
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All I’m saying is, if we do draft another back he won’t play any significant role unless David or Duke are injured.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Do you know the type of Coach we have in Bill O’Brien? He’s not your typical head coach. Nobody has a clue how this joker will utilize these backs. But I do agree David was brought here to be a three down back. Now if he doesn’t come here with the right attitude. He could easily fall into BOB doghouse. I do believe they will draft another RB. I’m hoping it will be Dillion as well. The youngster imo will push both of the Johnsons and probably be able to get a few carriers. But you’re also drafting him for the future.
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Seems like a smart plan to me.

I just hope they draft some difference makers. I don't care what position they play.

For instance if a difference making wr is available at 40 pick him. I'm even on the if Jonathan Taylor is there at 40 take him. He's a difference maker.
 
I feel so bad for some of you guys that are hoping a gap scheme running back is going to walk into a zone run situation and excel and have his best year ever. LOL Bless your hearts.

Johnson hurt by game 6 - book it - he's just cashing checks.
 
Uncle Rico said:
I feel so bad for some of you guys that are hoping a gap scheme running back is going to walk into a zone run situation and excel and have his best year ever. LOL Bless your hearts.

Johnson hurt by game 6 - book it - he's just cashing checks.
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As a fan of the game and team, what are our other choices?
 
theCATALYST said:
As a fan of the game and team, what are our other choices?
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isolate the inconsistencies. voice concern over mismanagement. push back against hostile takeovers or just wear paper bags over our heads.

great question actually.

Its cool to have optimism, but there needn't be reason to create or invent hypotheticals based on the best possible scenario as a baseline. Hope springs eternal, but expecting David Johnson to replicate something from 4 years ago is just not happening my guy considering ALL the interesting nuances surrounding the decision. The blinders might not let you see the whole picture, but David Johnson wasnt some huge aquisition for this team, it was just a mathematical figure that would allow the laymen to see things laterally as in "hey they get paid about the same, must be a close deal" and soften the blow of losing a franchise icon.

Think about it, what in the running style this team has employed would capture whatever David Johnson is good at?? Running it up the middle doesnt require one of the highest paid RBs to achieve that end. Are we going to use him as a slot? Why? There's like 5 other slot guys on the team already. Its just an infinitely bad move, no way you can really sugar coat it.

dont let me tell you how to show your fandom .. im spiraling down the rabbit hole.
 
I think I mentioned this up thread already, but I'll reiterate. A day or 2 after the trade, there was a radio interview of someone in the Cardinals organization, forget who it was, who claimed Johnson struggled mightily with picking up the offense. Said that Carson Palmer had to literally tell Johnson what to do, where to line up, etc. on almost every play. Result, solid rookie season behind Chris Johnson, then an All-Pro season the next. Without Palmer in his ear, and injuries haven't helped, he hasn't been the same.

If that's true, and Johnson is now coming to this complicated AF OB offense that takes 3 years to get down........
 
Uncle Rico said:
isolate the inconsistencies. voice concern over mismanagement. push back against hostile takeovers or just wear paper bags over our heads.

great question actually.

Its cool to have optimism, but there needn't be reason to create or invent hypotheticals based on the best possible scenario as a baseline. Hope springs eternal, but expecting David Johnson to replicate something from 4 years ago is just not happening my guy considering ALL the interesting nuances surrounding the decision. The blinders might not let you see the whole picture, but David Johnson wasnt some huge aquisition for this team, it was just a mathematical figure that would allow the laymen to see things laterally as in "hey they get paid about the same, must be a close deal" and soften the blow of losing a franchise icon.

Think about it, what in the running style this team has employed would capture whatever David Johnson is good at?? Running it up the middle doesnt require one of the highest paid RBs to achieve that end. Are we going to use him as a slot? Why? There's like 5 other slot guys on the team already. Its just an infinitely bad move, no way you can really sugar coat it.

dont let me tell you how to show your fandom .. im spiraling down the rabbit hole.
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No I get it. My point is that I understand D.Johnson is 90% likely to just be a shadow of his earlier self. I also understand that he was just he shiny coin the magician had us looking at while he was sneaking our wallets out of our back pocket (Hopkins). But even in knowing and understanding this, and knowing and understanding that O'Brien leaves A LOT to be desired as a coach and as a general manger, I feel like we (fans), only have two choices.

A) Continue to watch the Texans (my support has stopped. I no longer watch games live, nor purchase merchandise).
B) Stop watching professional football all together.

I, like others have mentioned, am also a fan of the Logo. I will never watch and root for another team. So, those two choices are likely my only two choices. I am leaning closely to choice B at the moment, but a part of me still wants to watch the train wreck.
 
Speedy said:
I think I mentioned this up thread already, but I'll reiterate. A day or 2 after the trade, there was a radio interview of someone in the Cardinals organization, forget who it was, who claimed Johnson struggled mightily with picking up the offense. Said that Carson Palmer had to literally tell Johnson what to do, where to line up, etc. on almost every play. Result, solid rookie season behind Chris Johnson, then an All-Pro season the next. Without Palmer in his ear, and injuries haven't helped, he hasn't been the same.

If that's true, and Johnson is now coming to this complicated AF OB offense that takes 3 years to get down........
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OHHHHH Buddy!! You know who should have a field day with this one right since Deshaun Watson is a few points shy from full blown Down Syndrome according to him! Of course not, Bill OBrien made the move so it MUST BE GENIUS!!

No resisting the borg!
 
Speedy said:
I think I mentioned this up thread already, but I'll reiterate. A day or 2 after the trade, there was a radio interview of someone in the Cardinals organization, forget who it was, who claimed Johnson struggled mightily with picking up the offense. Said that Carson Palmer had to literally tell Johnson what to do, where to line up, etc. on almost every play. Result, solid rookie season behind Chris Johnson, then an All-Pro season the next. Without Palmer in his ear, and injuries haven't helped, he hasn't been the same.

If that's true, and Johnson is now coming to this complicated AF OB offense that takes 3 years to get down........
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Ouch man this is not good at all. I remember when Chad Johnson went to the Patriots. He struggled picking up the offense. Great talent and dynamic reciever but he just couldn’t learn that particular offense.

Great job Bill Obrien
 
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theCATALYST said:
No I get it. My point is that I understand D.Johnson is 90% likely to just be a shadow of his earlier self. I also understand that he was just he shiny coin the magician had us looking at while he was sneaking our wallets out of our back pocket (Hopkins). But even in knowing and understanding this, and knowing and understanding that O'Brien leaves A LOT to be desired as a coach and as a general manger, I feel like we (fans), only have two choices.

A) Continue to watch the Texans (my support has stopped. I no longer watch games live, nor purchase merchandise).
B) Stop watching professional football all together.

I, like others have mentioned, am also a fan of the Logo. I will never watch and root for another team. So, those two choices are likely my only two choices. I am leaning closely to choice B at the moment, but a part of me still wants to watch the train wreck.
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Oh Im going to watch. Same reason I watch Live PD. Same reason I watch the Puppy Bowl. Same morbid reason I compare it to watching the Hindenberg crash (minus all the crappy loss of life obv).

I'll point out the flaws in the play design. I'll try to educate some on the finer details of playing the game. Mainly just be an antihero of keeping it real. Too much gaslighting, and flat out lies and deflection have invaded this board. Im here to keep those dummies in check.

Have fun with it man, just dont expect David Johnson to give you 1300 yards and you might actually have MORE fun.

Stay safe.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Oh Im going to watch. Same reason I watch Live PD. Same reason I watch the Puppy Bowl. Same morbid reason I compare it to watching the Hindenberg crash (minus all the crappy loss of life obv).

I'll point out the flaws in the play design. I'll try to educate some on the finer details of playing the game. Mainly just be an antihero of keeping it real. Too much gaslighting, and flat out lies and deflection have invaded this board. Im here to keep those dummies in check.

Have fun with it man, just dont expect David Johnson to give you 1300 yards and you might actually have MORE fun.

Stay safe.
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What's it like to be the smartest man on the MB?

Man you think alot of yourself.
 
RGV82 said:
Some people are here to have open discussions and are willing to hear other people’s opinions, and other people are simply here to give their opinion, assert that they are right and refuse to be told otherwise. Unfortunate reality.
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That best describes one member in particular. Especially when it comes to Watson.
 
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