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David Johnson... welcome to houston

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Who, Johnson or O'Brien? I would never boo Johnson. Ain't none of this his fault.
I feel for Johnson ... this is a lose/lose situation for him. He will never live up to the deal, and he will never capture the fans hearts because of the price paid. He will forever be a trivia question for Houston sports fans.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
GTOH this is not a damn major overreaction. That crap you said about Watson is an overkill. If you don’t think this was a stupid trade worse than the Walker trade. Then you clearly don’t know what the f you’re talking about.
Care to explain what DW4 has to do with this?

They got pick 40 instead of 22.

The world is going to end
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No, it's just football. And another brick in the wall of the ineptitude of Bill O'Brien. You do agree that he should be removed as GM, and probably coach, right?
Coach for sure

I actually like some of the moves he made last year.

The Nuk deal not so much.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Coach for sure

I actually like some of the moves he made last year.

The Nuk deal not so much.
He got Conley for Clowney. You guys were certain Clowney would bring a top 10 pick.

He traded 2 1sts for Tunsil without getting an extension. No one does that.

O’Brien has no idea what he’s doing. And he’s surrounded himself with no nothings and yes men. If you don’t think this upcoming draft will turn into an absolute shyt show, you’re tripping. This will be the cherry on top of a disastrous offseason.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
He got Conley for Clowney. You guys were certain Clowney would bring a top 10 pick.

He traded 2 1sts for Tunsil without getting an extension. No one does that.

O’Brien has no idea what he’s doing. And he’s surrounded himself with no nothings and yes men. If you don’t think this upcoming draft will turn into an absolute shyt show, you’re tripping. This will be the cherry on top of a disastrous offseason.
I’m expecting a TE to be drafted somewhere to be honest.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
No other team in the NFL would have taken on David Johnson's contract, $12.3 million still guaranteed. Arizona would have cut Johnson. Then, taken that dead cap hit of $16 million. And Johnson would have done backflips all the way to NRG if offered half of that as a FA.

So even if Johnson has a solid, comeback year as a Texan, it was a bad trade. The Texans should have received draft pick compensation from the Cards for alleviating that cap hit. Or, made the Cards pay have of the remaining guarantee. None of that happened. And when you take into account the pitiful compensation received for an All Pro WR, this has to be worst trade based on value in recent memory.
Over in another thread it was posted that 3 teams were in negotiations with Arizonia for Johnson, one being the Texans. The Chronicle also reported that Johnson had been the RB that OB wanted.

The point being, the acquisition of Johnson doesn't appear to be an afterthought of the Hop trade.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
It appears he’s reading what you write, so if I can fault him for anything it’s that. But I’m guilty of that sometimes too, but not often.
If he were really reading what I’m writing he would know that Ive been critical of BoB at times too. and as far as this particular situation I didn’t really care for this trade either. So insinuating that “my job” is to “defend” BoB at all costs suggests that if he is reading what I’m writing he’s either blind....or his reading comprehension skills suck.
 

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
CND listed his injury history in another thread and flatly stated that Johnson cannot be called injury prone.
Ok, so he's a victim of circumstance? He has only played 5 seasons, and missed significant time in 2 of them. That's not a great track record.

Meanwhile, Deandre Hopkins has missed all of 2 games in 7 years, and both of those were "week 17 injuries."
 
Major overreaction

Herschel Walker trade says hi.
True but a Walker type trade can’t happen in the modern NFL. The only trade I can think of that is around as bad as this one is Chicago selling the farm to move up 1 spot to draft Trubisky. Even that might not be as bad because at least they were drafting what they thought would be their franchise QB. We traded our most constant offensive player for a guy that has phoned it in since he got paid.

You know I think I said in another thread we wouldn’t know how accurate Watson really is until he wasn’t throwing to Nuk every game. That wasn’t meant to be a suggestion.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Over in another thread it was posted that 3 teams were in negotiations with Arizonia for Johnson, one being the Texans. The Chronicle also reported that Johnson had been the RB that OB wanted.

The point being, the acquisition of Johnson doesn't appear to be an afterthought of the Hop trade.
If I were OB, I'd stick with the prior excuse.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
CND listed his injury history in another thread and flatly stated that Johnson cannot be called injury prone.
I looked in the injury thread and didn't see anything. If you can remember or find where you saw this, could you point me to the thread. I know he had problems several years ago and I'd like to know what Cnd has to say.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
This is CND's post on Johnson in the Hopkins thread. My take is that if you can't blame injuries for Johnson's lack of performance, then I guess the guy just sucks.

Johnson can't be considered injury prone.

Sep 10, 2017..........Wrist Dislocation........missed the remainder of the season after going down in Week 1. He missed the remainder of the season.

Jan 1, 2017.........Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2.........ended his season early in Week 17 with a sprained MCL. He avoided surgery.

Nov 27, 2016.......Finger Dislocation...........dislocated a finger in Week 12. The injury did not cost him any games.

Aug 3, 2015.......Hamstring Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
CND listed his injury history in another thread and flatly stated that Johnson cannot be called injury prone.
thats not saying much. anyone can look up an injury history and do some basic research. fact is that once Johnson broke his wrist he has not been the same player, and the film shows a guy who runs SCARED. He's just cashing checks at this point ala Ed Reed. "Injury Prone" or not he's a liability.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
True but a Walker type trade can’t happen in the modern NFL. The only trade I can think of that is around as bad as this one is Chicago selling the farm to move up 1 spot to draft Trubisky. Even that might not be as bad because at least they were drafting what they thought would be their franchise QB. We traded our most constant offensive player for a guy that has phoned it in since he got paid.

You know I think I said in another thread we wouldn’t know how accurate Watson really is until he wasn’t throwing to Nuk every game. That wasn’t meant to be a suggestion.
Walker, anything can happen,

Yep, they will draft another WR and although I don't like this trade, losing Nuk isn't the end of the world. In fact Nuk is happy that he's getting his extension. DW4'S going to have to learn to play without his crutch.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
thats not saying much. anyone can look up an injury history and do some basic research. fact is that once Johnson broke his wrist he has not been the same player, and the film shows a guy who runs SCARED. He's just cashing checks at this point ala Ed Reed. "Injury Prone" or not he's a liability.
Wrong, not everybody has treated professional athletes and has yrs of experience treating these types of injuries.

Hey genius, you may want to take a look at the flu thread. It makes this post truly speak for itself.

Just say I don't like CnD and move on, because this post isn't going you a good look.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
DW4'S going to have to learn to play without his crutch.
Yep, good QBs don't need good receivers. Weren't you one of those that said Brady's lack of production in 2019 stemmed from not having good receivers?
Wrong, not everybody has treated professional athletes and has yrs of experience treating these types of injuries.

Hey genius, you may want to take a look at the flu thread. It makes this post truly speak for itself.

Just say I don't like CnD and move on, because this post isn't going you a good look.
@CloakNNNdagger was saying that Johnson's injuries aren't chronic. He wasn't commenting on Johnson's performance, past or future. You're starting an argument no one has made.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep, good QBs don't need good receivers. Weren't you one of those that said Brady's lack of production in 2019 stemmed from not having good receivers?

@CloakNNNdagger was saying that Johnson's injuries aren't chronic. He wasn't commenting on Johnson's performance, past or future. You're starting an argument no one has made.
He has good WRs and more will be added. This really came down to not giving Nuk the extension he wanted. If DW4 can't play effectively without Nuk then that should tell you something.

Spot on about DJ.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
This is CND's post on Johnson in the Hopkins thread. My take is that if you can't blame injuries for Johnson's lack of performance, then I guess the guy just sucks.
Actually Dr. Rico should go back to medical school and learn how wrist injuries might affect an NFL running back. It would have negligible effects on running the ball. Johnson has still maintained his ability to pass protect and to catch the ball well........skills that would have diminished had he suffered a debilitating wrist injury.........and has not.

One of the main reasons that Johnson did not show well last year, demonstrating a drop off from 2018 to 2019, was because of the 2019 entry of HC Kingsbury..........Johnson simply did not fit Kingsbury's new Arizona scheme.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
One of the main reasons that Johnson did not show well last year, demonstrating a drop off from 2018 to 2019, was because of the 2019 entry of HC Kingsbury..........Johnson simply did not fit Kingsbury's new Arizona scheme.
What about the drop off from 2016 to 2018? Johnson didn't look like anywhere near the same RB. With his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, Johnson should have been a natural fit in the Air Raid. Except that he's lost his speed and quickness.

I don't see this as having anything to do with injuries. Sometimes, RBs just lose it. It's why giving out 2nd contracts to RBs is so risky. I think teams have the whole idea of RBs backwards. Draft them. You'll get value wherever you can get one. But trying to squeeze more than 4-5 years out of a RB is, in general, a waste of time. Johnson can likely give the Texans something as a 3rd down back. He can still block and catch. But, isn't Duke the 3rd down back? Who is running the ball on 1st and 2nd downs? Or is the new OC just going pass happy after O'Brien dumped an All Pro WR?

None of this makes sense. Because O'Brien doesn't know what he's doing. He has already shown in the past his inability to judge talent. Spending $12 million on one year of David Johnson is just the latest example.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
He has good WRs and more will be added. This really came down to not giving Nuk the extension he wanted. If DW4 can't play effectively without Nuk then that should tell you something.
This will really fit into your narrative if he doesn't, huh? It was all Hopkins.

Watson has 2 #3 WRs and a part time #2. There has to be a lead dog. Not coming in free agency or a trade. Will O'Brien find one in the draft? If you think so, you have some blind confidence in him I don't possess. Part of me thinks that you desire a total failure by O'Brien, Watson, and the team, in order to get a total rebuild.

If so, you may get what you want.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
........re-signing Hyde for 3M per season.
the team offered him that WHOPPING 5M per year contract after his career year!! Similar deal to what Jordan Howard signs for .. I'll be curious to see what Hyde 'settles' for .. Im by far no Hyde fan, but at this point I wish he would have signed to prevent OBrien from hurting this team with the Hopkins deal, or if that deal was inevitable find a better deal. Or maybe Hyde didnt want to play for OBrien anymore .. seems to be a growing sentiment in that locker room.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This will really fit into your narrative if he doesn't, huh? It was all Hopkins.

Watson has 2 #3 WRs and a part time #2. There has to be a lead dog. Not coming in free agency or a trade. Will O'Brien find one in the draft? If you think so, you have some blind confidence in him I don't possess. Part of me thinks that you desire a total failure by O'Brien, Watson, and the team, in order to get a total rebuild.

If so, you may get what you want.
Did the 49ers have a lead dog?

Packers?

Titans?

I wouldn't mind a total rebuild, because this team has never been a contender and I don't see them becoming one anytime soon.
 

Dutchrudder

King of the Potato People
thats not saying much. anyone can look up an injury history and do some basic research. fact is that once Johnson broke his wrist he has not been the same player, and the film shows a guy who runs SCARED. He's just cashing checks at this point ala Ed Reed. "Injury Prone" or not he's a liability.
I would be scared if I had to run behind the offensive line of the Cardinals the last 2 years...
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
the team offered him that WHOPPING 5M per year contract after his career year!! Similar deal to what Jordan Howard signs for .. I'll be curious to see what Hyde 'settles' for .. Im by far no Hyde fan, but at this point I wish he would have signed to prevent OBrien from hurting this team with the Hopkins deal, or if that deal was inevitable find a better deal. Or maybe Hyde didnt want to play for OBrien anymore .. seems to be a growing sentiment in that locker room.
Hyde was about to be cut before the Texans traded for him.

How much would you have paid an avg RB?
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I would be scared if I had to run behind the offensive line of the Cardinals the last 2 years...
irony is he's not coming to a better run blocking offensive line ... not only that but Johnson is not a zone running back - it will be like watching the football version of the Hindenburg.


and upon a quick search Arizona offensive line was ranked BETTER than Houston in both pass block and run block (not by much - but its still funny).
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What about the drop off from 2016 to 2018? Johnson didn't look like anywhere near the same RB. With his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, Johnson should have been a natural fit in the Air Raid. Except that he's lost his speed and quickness.

I don't see this as having anything to do with injuries. Sometimes, RBs just lose it. It's why giving out 2nd contracts to RBs is so risky. I think teams have the whole idea of RBs backwards. Draft them. You'll get value wherever you can get one. But trying to squeeze more than 4-5 years out of a RB is, in general, a waste of time. Johnson can likely give the Texans something as a 3rd down back. He can still block and catch. But, isn't Duke the 3rd down back? Who is running the ball on 1st and 2nd downs? Or is the new OC just going pass happy after O'Brien dumped an All Pro WR?

None of this makes sense. Because O'Brien doesn't know what he's doing. He has already shown in the past his inability to judge talent. Spending $12 million on one year of David Johnson is just the latest example.
These were the qb's he depended on in 2017 - 2018 to take some of the heat off of him in the passing game. Alot of heat that was now going to be coming to him After his breakout season in 2016...

Matt Barkley - Trash
Drew Stanton - Super Duper Trash
Blaine Gabbert - lol:
Mike Glennon - Basura
Josh Rosen - :thumbdown
Sam Bradford - :ouch:

Not a single damn pro bowler, proficient passer or even starting caliber qb amongst that group..In fact, To my knowledge only 1 of those guys has ever even had 1 or more seasons passing for more than 3000 yds...3000 yds! That's terrible. That's not even talking about how bad thier offensive line was for all those years. You saw it with Gurley last year...You saw it with LeVeon Bell last year...Bad to subpar qb play isn't good for your RB...doesn't matter how special he is.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
irony is he's not coming to a better run blocking offensive line ... not only that but Johnson is not a zone running back - it will be like watching the football version of the Hindenburg.


and upon a quick search Arizona offensive line was ranked BETTER than Houston in both pass block and run block (not by much - but its still funny).
Yep, like an OL that has never had a TC and 2 rookies (One which played 1/2 a season) cant improve.
 

deucetx

Rookie
Did the 49ers have a lead dog?

Packers?

Titans?

I wouldn't mind a total rebuild, because this team has never been a contender and I don't see them becoming one anytime soon.
49ers - George Kittle, arguably the best tight end the league and also Emmanuel Sanders. Jimmy G didn't even have a 300 yard passing game until Sanders came. Plus they were a mediocre passing team so not sure why that is an example. That was a team built on the run and defense.

Packers - Davante Adams who made the probowl for the third time and was on track for a 1300+ yard season if not for injuries making him miss 4 games.

Titans - AJ Brown easily and again a team that worked off the playaction pass. Though why we are suddenly lauding Tannenhill after one season with a back who averaged over 5 ypc I have no clue.

So you named two QB's who barely threw the ball in the regular season (bottom third of the league in attempts) and postseason and that were actually on teams more reliant on their run games and a sure fire Hall of Famer who has been considered elite at his position for several years. But yes, they needed lead dogs in their passing games even if they were mediocre passing teams.

Just like some here tried to say any drop off in Brady's play this past season was because he didn't have that lead dog receiving option. Yourself include since you said this in the Brady thread:

Brady's not done winning championships.

He's just done winning championships in Foxboro.

I hope he winds up in Vegas and not in Indy/Nashville.

Posters were saying these same things about Brady falling off when Peyton and the Broncos made the SB one yr and won the SB the next yr. Guess what, the Pats invested in the OL and got Brady somebody to threaten the defense vertically and more SB's followed. What was really wrong with Brady this yr is Gronk retired.

Posters are really wanting Brady to fade away so badly. He will eventually but these guys are going to have to wait awhile for this to happen if Brady moves on to another team that has weapons. If he goes to Vegas they have exactly the type of TE (Waller) and a good OL that Brady needs to be successful. Imagine if Juedy falls to 12 and they can pair him up with Juedy/Waller/Williams/Renfroe. Then the Raiders will be able to go toe to toe with the Chiefs.
So let's not change the script just because it doesn't fit your narrative for Watson. Like Brady, like Rodgers, etc., a quarterback needs weapons who can contribute and on a consistent basis whether receiver or tight end. Doesn't matter what the name of the quarterback is. Every team looks for that "lead dog" for their passing game for a reason.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
49ers - George Kittle, arguably the best tight end the league and also Emmanuel Sanders. Jimmy G didn't even have a 300 yard passing game until Sanders came. Plus they were a mediocre passing team so not sure why that is an example. That was a team built on the run and defense.

Packers - Davante Adams who made the probowl for the third time and was on track for a 1300+ yard season if not for injuries making him miss 4 games.

Titans - AJ Brown easily and again a team that worked off the playaction pass. Though why we are suddenly lauding Tannenhill after one season with a back who averaged over 5 ypc I have no clue.

So you named two QB's who barely threw the ball in the regular season (bottom third of the league in attempts) and postseason and that were actually on teams more reliant on their run games and a sure fire Hall of Famer who has been considered elite at his position for several years. But yes, they needed lead dogs in their passing games even if they were mediocre passing teams.

Just like some here tried to say any drop off in Brady's play this past season was because he didn't have that lead dog receiving option. Yourself include since you said this in the Brady thread:



So let's not change the script just because it doesn't fit your narrative for Watson. Like Brady, like Rodgers, etc., a quarterback needs weapons who can contribute and on a consistent basis whether receiver or tight end. Doesn't matter what the name of the quarterback is. Every team looks for that "lead dog" for their passing game for a reason.
Don't worry, we have Cobb filling in those shoes now, and a draft pick that's going to better than Hopkins. LMAO!!
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Don't worry, we have Cobb filling in those shoes now, and a draft pick that's going to better than Hopkins. LMAO!!
isnt it supremely funny that we have a group of guys around here who think ANYONE is replaceable and that the current regime is skilled enough to find talent in later rounds LIKE TOM BRADY!! Or that all these blue chippers they yap about are going to miraculously fall to the 2nd round! Or that NOW we have another position group to add to the long list of needs?? SMH. Puppies just chasing their tails.

its sad really to watch these guys year after year support budget decision making in hopes that one of these turds becomes a diamond.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Don't worry, we have Cobb filling in those shoes now, and a draft pick that's going to better than Hopkins. LMAO!!
Cobb had a damn fine season with the cowboys last year..Many fans up there didn't want to see him go...

But any rookie that is brought in doesn't have to be better, just has to be able to produce in lieu of..

DK Metcalf
AJ Brown
Deebo Samuel
Marquise Brown

All guys that came in as rookies and had an immediate impacts on their teams' offenses.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Cobb had a damn fine season with the cowboys last year..Many fans up there didn't want to see him go...

But any rookie that is brought in doesn't have to be better, just has to be able to produce in lieu of..

DK Metcalf
AJ Brown
Deebo Samuel
Marquise Brown

All guys that came in as rookies and had an immediate impacts on their teams' offenses.
You would think this would be very easy to understand.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
DeAndre Hopkins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown, Samuel, Metcalf and ANYBODY IN THIS YEARS DRAFT.

Not even close. Trying to say so just shows how little you know about football and how far you're willing to go to swallow anything OBrien.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
49ers - George Kittle, arguably the best tight end the league and also Emmanuel Sanders. Jimmy G didn't even have a 300 yard passing game until Sanders came. Plus they were a mediocre passing team so not sure why that is an example. That was a team built on the run and defense.

Packers - Davante Adams who made the probowl for the third time and was on track for a 1300+ yard season if not for injuries making him miss 4 games.

Titans - AJ Brown easily and again a team that worked off the playaction pass. Though why we are suddenly lauding Tannenhill after one season with a back who averaged over 5 ypc I have no clue.

So you named two QB's who barely threw the ball in the regular season (bottom third of the league in attempts) and postseason and that were actually on teams more reliant on their run games and a sure fire Hall of Famer who has been considered elite at his position for several years. But yes, they needed lead dogs in their passing games even if they were mediocre passing teams.

Just like some here tried to say any drop off in Brady's play this past season was because he didn't have that lead dog receiving option. Yourself include since you said this in the Brady thread:



So let's not change the script just because it doesn't fit your narrative for Watson. Like Brady, like Rodgers, etc., a quarterback needs weapons who can contribute and on a consistent basis whether receiver or tight end. Doesn't matter what the name of the quarterback is. Every team looks for that "lead dog" for their passing game for a reason.
I will give you Kittle but I would also point out the WCO makes TE's. See: OD. BTW, A great TE is more important than a great WR. IMHO

Teams that can control the middle of the field with the TE position usually have top offenses.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
DeAndre Hopkins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown, Samuel, Metcalf and ANYBODY IN THIS YEARS DRAFT.

Not even close. Trying to say so just shows how little you know about football and how far you're willing to go to swallow anything OBrien.
Plus when Hopkins came into the league he had AJ on the other side. I think it made it much easier for Hopkins to adapt. Now we are asking a rookie to take the #1 role. Ok.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
DeAndre Hopkins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brown, Samuel, Metcalf and ANYBODY IN THIS YEARS DRAFT.

Not even close. Trying to say so just shows how little you know about football and how far you're willing to go to swallow anything OBrien.
But at what cost?

Not being able to fix the defense because you have a group of highly paid players and subpar starters everywhere else?
 


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