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David Johnson- Rush total prediction

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Of course we'll have to see, but given the makeup and skill sets of our players, an Air Coryell offensive scheme seems most likely. I thought we had discussed this some weeks back.
The hesitation I would have with the Air Coryell offense is that it is most effective with the QB under center in order to best take advantage of one of its most important tools.......its play action. Watson doesn't seem all that comfortable outside of the shotgun.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The hesitation I would have with the Air Coryell offense is that it is most effective with the QB under center in order to best take advantage of one of its most important tools.......its play action. Watson doesn't seem all that comfortable outside of the shotgun.

Same could be said of the WCO as it employs a heavy dose of play action.

What does that say about Watson as a QB if you can't put him under center and utilize those tools ?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
We've got a bunch of WCO disciples on the MB.

Y'all think DW4 is best suited for the WCO, tell me which QB y'all think isn't best suited for the WCO?

What QB isn't suited to the WCO ? ….. Brady and others that just lack the mobility of a snail.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
This question wasn't directed to you, but you mean a guy like Schaub?

I was just curious which QB they thought wouldn't be better running the WCO.

Schaub was very accurate , had really good footwork , made great decisions and had the best play fake in the game.

Pre injury he was just mobile enough and had just enough arm to get by as a WCO QB.

Post injury …. lacked the mobility and the arm to play the position in any scheme.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Man I can name quite of few QBs that are not operating under center like that. But hey it is what it is.

We need to get Bill O’Brien on here so we can ask him why he doesn’t have Watson operating under center.

There's only one advantage to having the QB in the Shotgun / Pistol whatever you want to call it , gives the QB a better view of the field pre snap - particularly the area's beyond the tackles along the LOS. The QB can see the entire defensive alignment in one frame.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What QB isn't suited to the WCO ? ….. Brady and others that just lack the mobility of a snail.
I love the Walsh WCO

I just love the EP system more.

I have noticed over the last couple of yrs that the WCO has been more effective. Even though watching Brady work the EP with some spread concepts mixed in has been a great thing to witness. Lets face it Brady had the bst run of QB play that we've seen in our lifetime and I was a great Staubach/Fouts/Marino/Elway etc... fan
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Schaub was very accurate , had really good footwork , made great decisions and had the best play fake in the game.

Pre injury he was just mobile enough and had just enough arm to get by as a WCO QB.

Post injury …. lacked the mobility and the arm to play the position in any scheme.
Your feet/achillies are very important to QB play
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I love the Walsh WCO

I just love the EP system more.

I have noticed over the last couple of yrs that the WCO has been more effective. Even though watching Brady work the EP with some spread concepts mixed in has been a great thing to witness. Lets face it Brady had the bst run of QB play that we've seen in our lifetime and I was a great Staubach/Fouts/Marino/Elway etc... fan

Brady has been great …. but lets not act like he willed those teams over the hump - He had the best coach in the last 20 years pulling the strings and has had a very good supporting cast around him - often the defense did the heavy lifting.

And lets not forget that they have run a lot of WCO concepts from that EP system. Welker and Edelman were his Kevin Walter and many of those schemes they ran with Gronk were WCO based.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Brady has been great …. but lets not act like he willed those teams over the hump - He had the best coach in the last 20 years pulling the strings and has had a very good supporting cast around him - often the defense did the heavy lifting.

And lets not forget that they have run a lot of WCO concepts from that EP system. Welker and Edelman were his Kevin Walter and many of those schemes they ran with Gronk were WCO based.
Yes the defense was great. But Brady went through Troy Brown to Welker to Edelman and didn't miss a beat. His best season was with Moss. But breaking in three different wr groups is what makes him the GOAT.

The last paragraph you know much more about than I do.
 

Let's go Texans

Practice Squad
Then I'm definitely glass half empty. I'm thinking 600-700 rushing yards and about 1000-1100 total yards with maybe 8 total tds. That's if he's healthy. Dude is shot.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Then I'm definitely glass half empty. I'm thinking 600-700 rushing yards and about 1000-1100 total yards with maybe 8 total tds. That's if he's healthy. Dude is shot.
If healthy, and plays the entire season, I would think he could definitely come close to 1000 yards. Your prediction of 600-700 (if healthy) seems kinda low, which would translate to an average of only 40 rushing yards per game over the season.
 

Let's go Texans

Practice Squad
If healthy, and plays the entire season, I would think he could definitely come close to 1000 yards. Your prediction of 600-700 (if healthy) seems kinda low, which would translate to an average of only 40 rushing yards per game over the season.
I would love to think you're right, but I think his beat days are definitely behind him. I think Duke is gonna take more carries from David Johnson than he did from Hyde last year. Hyde could be that workhorse back and I think if they want Johnson to make it through the entire season than they're gonna have to give Duke more carries than last year.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Actually, Schaub was damn good running the WCO. He just wasn’t the same after his foot injury. The Butt Chins love to point at 2013 as if that was prime Schaub and ignore 09-2012. His play fake/play action was sick, and he was no dual threat QB by any stretch of the imagination. I can only imagine how good Watson could be running the WCO with the ZBS. Our O-line would probably be top 10 as it stands.
Matt had one of the best fake/play action I've seen. It completely fooled opponents consistently.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would love to think you're right, but I think his beat days are definitely behind him. I think Duke is gonna take more carries from David Johnson than he did from Hyde last year. Hyde could be that workhorse back and I think if they want Johnson to make it through the entire season than they're gonna have to give Duke more carries than last year.
Hope you are correct on Duke getting more carries but do not see David as same type workhorse as Carlos. He can run between tackles but is just a different type runner with different plays called for him in my mind anyway.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The hesitation I would have with the Air Coryell offense is that it is most effective with the QB under center in order to best take advantage of one of its most important tools.......its play action. Watson doesn't seem all that comfortable outside of the shotgun.
I agree but if line is what I think with Kelly's plays, we might see DW under center much more.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Man I can name quite of few QBs that are not operating under center like that. But hey it is what it is.

We need to get Bill O’Brien on here so we can ask him why he doesn’t have Watson operating under center.
Sure ask him to read the supportive FIRE BILL NOW thread then ask him to answer our questions, that will happen...
 
For me it wasn’t that I hated him personally. I respected him as a coach and rival. He was a good and innovative coach. So my hate is more the frustration created with his tactics and comes from respect. The quick snap to catch us in the wrong personnel or off guard at that time was uncommon and very effective.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Hard to explain: things I read about him over his career. Watching his actions on sidelines, comments he has made. Not to say not a good coach he was but over the years I developed a dislike. Similarly to Glanville, Belicheck although more for the cheating episodes under his leadership; Mike Leach; Jerry Jones as an owner; Ben Roths and other players.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Brady has been great …. but lets not act like he willed those teams over the hump He had the best coach in the last 20 years pulling the strings and has had a very good supporting cast around him - often the defense did the heavy lifting.
Then I'd like to know what QB did since he's got the most post season records and accomplishments on top of his SB victories. You'd be mind blown if you just took the time to look at some of them and realized what he's done with not that great of offensive talent around him. He has willed his team more than any other QB by far in the playoffs with the highest amount of roster turnover than any of the other QB's in the HOF, that's for sure.

He had the best coach in the last 20 years pulling the strings and has had a very good supporting cast around him - often the defense did the heavy lifting.
Also Belicheck hadn't ever proven anything as a HC until he got Brady as his QB. He coached for several years with the Browns missing the playoffs and one year with the Patriots missing them as well. He went 36-44 with the Browns.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Then I'd like to know what QB did since he's got the most post season records and accomplishments on top of his SB victories. You'd be mind blown if you just took the time to look at some of them and realized what he's done with not that great of offensive talent around him. He has willed his team more than any other QB by far in the playoffs with the highest amount of roster turnover than any of the other QB's in the HOF, that's for sure.



Also Belicheck hadn't ever proven anything as a HC until he got Brady as his QB. He coached for several years with the Browns missing the playoffs and one year with the Patriots missing them as well. He went 36-44 with the Browns.
I'm mostly with you......... but c'mon man loosen up on Brady's boys a little bit. Belichick is still only 1 of 2 HC's in the last 17 seasons (20 years total) to take the Browns to the playoffs & is THE only HC to have led them to a playoff victory in that same time span.... The gameplan that dude put together against Kelly and that k-gun offense is enshrined in the HOF for christ's sake. Everywhere that dude has coached where he had a prominent coaching position, his contributions have made a huge impact. You could argue that both Parcells and Brady owe a great deal of their success to Belichick..since 1 didn't really have that much success without him & the other we have yet to see what he will do without him...We already know what Bill can do without Brady...He was like 13-6 with Casell & Brissett?

At the very least, Brady owes 50% of what he's been able to accomplish in the NFL to Belichick just off of how he ran the team & the opportunity Belichick afforded him to be on the roster alone when he entered the NFL as a 6th rounder and being 7th on the depth chart.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I'm mostly with you......... but c'mon man loosen up on Brady's boys a little bit. Belichick is still only 1 of 2 HC's in the last 17 seasons (20 years total) to take the Browns to the playoffs & is THE only HC to have led them to a playoff victory in that same time span.... The gameplan that dude put together against Kelly and that k-gun offense is enshrined in the HOF for christ's sake. Everywhere that dude has coached where he had a prominent coaching position, his contributions have made a huge impact. You could argue that both Parcells and Brady owe a great deal of their success to Belichick..since 1 didn't really have that much success without him & the other we have yet to see what he will do without him...We already know what Bill can do without Brady...He was like 13-6 with Casell & Brissett?
The facts are what they are. He was an average HC before Tom Brady. What the Browns franchise did after his departure really has nothing to do with anything. The Pats franchise was just like the Browns for a long time before Parcells first got there. You are saying we know what Bill could do without Brady and only adding up one season with Cassell in your mind and ignoring the other 5 with the Browns AND the first season with the Patriots where Belicheck went 5-11 before Brady came in there. Cassell also went 10-6 with the Chiefs shortly after that with Todd Haley as HC so we know what Cassell also proved he could do without Belicheck. Speaking of that season how is that you missed the fact that the Patriots went from 16-0 to 11-5?? That's a 5 game drop off in wins from not having Brady and being in the SB which is a lot.

At the very least, Brady owes 50% of what he's been able to accomplish in the NFL to Belichick just off of how he ran the team & the opportunity Belichick afforded him to be on the roster alone when he entered the NFL as a 6th rounder and being 7th on the depth chart.
I just laid out the facts of what Belicheck's career was as a HC before Brady got there. The only argument could be said for Tom Brady because Belicheck wasn't ever successful as a HC until he had Tom Brady. His success was only as a DC while he worked under Parcells. Brady has only played under Belicheck and no one else. Until I hear you make this claim for every other HOF QB regarding their coach, then this statement makes no sense especially with Belicheck's coaching record of 41-55 without having Tom Brady as his QB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The facts are what they are. He was an average HC before Tom Brady. What the Browns franchise did after his departure really has nothing to do with anything. The Pats franchise was just like the Browns for a long time before Parcells first got there. You are saying we know what Bill could do without Brady and only adding up one season with Cassell in your mind and ignoring the other 5 with the Browns AND the first season with the Patriots where Belicheck went 5-11 before Brady came in there. Cassell also went 10-6 with the Chiefs shortly after that with Todd Haley as HC so we know what Cassell also proved he could do without Belicheck. Speaking of that season how is that you missed the fact that the Patriots went from 16-0 to 11-5?? That's a 5 game drop off in wins from not having Brady and being in the SB which is a lot.



I just laid out the facts of what Belicheck's career was as a HC before Brady got there. The only argument could be said for Tom Brady because Belicheck wasn't ever successful as a HC until he had Tom Brady. His success was only as a DC while he worked under Parcells. Brady has only played under Belicheck and no one else. Until I hear you make this claim for every other HOF QB regarding their coach, then this statement makes no sense especially with Belicheck's coaching record of 41-55 without having Tom Brady as his QB.
All I know is Ozzie said Belicheck taught him about roster building.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
All I know is Ozzie said Belicheck taught him about roster building.
He did.

That doesn't change what he accomplished as a HC before Brady which were losing record seasons. It isn't me saying that he isn't a great HC. This is an argument that slices the idea that Brady owes any extra credit to his HC anymore than any other HOF QB does when his HC didn't have any success as a HC prior to having Brady as a QB. He did have plenty of years of experience as a HC though. One thing people fail to connect with also is that a lot of HC's can coach teams to winning seasons or the playoffs. O'Brien can easily do that even. It takes that QB in most cases to help the coaches get the ring, because the QB will have to perform in those tight 4th quarters or those last minute drives or the situations where guys get injured and the QB elevates the team despite it.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The facts are what they are. He was an average HC before Tom Brady. What the Browns franchise did after his departure really has nothing to do with anything. The Pats franchise was just like the Browns for a long time before Parcells first got there. You are saying we know what Bill could do without Brady and only adding up one season with Cassell in your mind and ignoring the other 5 with the Browns AND the first season with the Patriots where Belicheck went 5-11 before Brady came in there. Cassell also went 10-6 with the Chiefs shortly after that with Todd Haley as HC so we know what Cassell also proved he could do without Belicheck. Speaking of that season how is that you missed the fact that the Patriots went from 16-0 to 11-5?? That's a 5 game drop off in wins from not having Brady and being in the SB which is a lot.



I just laid out the facts of what Belicheck's career was as a HC before Brady got there. The only argument could be said for Tom Brady because Belicheck wasn't ever successful as a HC until he had Tom Brady. His success was only as a DC while he worked under Parcells. Brady has only played under Belicheck and no one else. Until I hear you make this claim for every other HOF QB regarding their coach, then this statement makes no sense especially with Belicheck's coaching record of 41-55 without having Tom Brady as his QB.
Lol, You don't have to see the rain actually falling from the sky to know that it rained.

You laid out the facts as you want to view them....& ok..that's your opinion. But you're still dismissing all the circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your stance. Jimmy Johnson was a successful HC prior to Marino. The fact that he didn't enjoy the same success he did with Aikman in Dallas isn't an indictment on him as a HC..nor Marino as a qb, it just didn't work. Ditto for guys like Pete Carroll who was barely .500 between 2 different stints as a HC & was trash his 1st 3 years in SEA before finally getting it together. In the case you're trying to make it isn't even that clear b/c Brady coming into the league had 0 track record of anything. There's a high probability that those 1st few championships go to Bledsoe............ if he doesn't get hurt early in that season. Just b/c Belichick didn't have a very good record in the NFL as a HC to that point and Brady's record was unblemished b/c he'd done nothing doesn't exactly mean Brady himself was the catalyst for Belichick's success. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

& most guys don't have the privledge of playing under the same HC their whole career...even alot of greats. But, there are a few guys who more than likely owe a substantial amount of credit for how good & successful they were in their careers to the guy roaming the sidelines...& rightfully so. Bart Starr & probably Terry Bradshaw just to name a few. But for some strange reason, its blasphemy to do that with Brady.......even though he was largely a game manager for about the 1st 5-6 years of the Pats dynasty & if you look at his numbers during that time & you remember how those teams won, Belichick's signature is all over them...But you know that..you're just being obtuse.

Dude was/is a great COACH who was instrumental in numerous SB championships and deep playoff runs for multiple teams prior to Brady even entering the league. His lack of success with the Browns & the fact that he is still the last HC to win a playoff game for them after 20 years only gives more creedence to how good he likely was.......& it also speaks to how much of a trainwreck that organization really was while he was there...& continues to be since he's been gone.

& yes, it's a small sample size, but what is Brady's sample size without him? non-existent.
 
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Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Lol, You don't have to see the rain actually falling from the sky to know that it rained.

You laid out the facts as you want to view them....& ok..that's your opinion. But you're still dismissing all the circumstantial evidence that doesn't support your stance. Jimmy Johnson was a successful HC prior to Marino. The fact that he didn't enjoy the same success he did with Aikman in Dallas isn't an indictment on him as a HC..nor Marino as a qb, it just didn't work. Ditto for guys like Pete Carroll who was barely .500 between 2 different stints as a HC & was trash his 1st 3 years in SEA before finally getting it together. In the case you're trying to make it isn't even that clear b/c Brady coming into the league had 0 track record of anything. There's a high probability that those 1st few championships go to Bledsoe............ if he doesn't get hurt early in that season. Just b/c Belichick didn't have a very good record in the NFL as a HC to that point and Brady's record was unblemished b/c he'd done nothing doesn't exactly mean Brady himself was the catalyst for Belichick's success. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

& most guys don't have the privledge of playing under the same HC their whole career...even alot of greats. But, there are a few guys who more than likely owe a substantial amount of credit for how good & successful they were in their careers to the guy roaming the sidelines...& rightfully so. Bart Starr & probably Terry Bradshaw just to name a few. But for some strange reason, its blasphemy to do that with Brady.......even though he was largely a game manager for about the 1st 5-6 years of the Pats dynasty & if you look at his numbers during that time & you remember how those teams won, Belichick's signature is all over them...But you know that..you're just being obtuse.

Dude was/is a great COACH who was instrumental in numerous SB championships and deep playoff runs for multiple teams prior to Brady even entering the league. His lack of success with the Browns & the fact that he is still the last HC to win a playoff game for them after 20 years only gives more creedence to how good he likely was.......& it also speaks to how much of a trainwreck that organization really was while he was there...& continues to be since he's been gone.
None of this addresses the record as HC that I laid out which is fact. A losing record as HC that stretched for like 5 or 6 years is not some small sample. Its a large one, and there is zero argument to put up for a losing record that is below 500.

& yes, it's a small sample size, but what is Brady's sample size without him? non-existent. Besides, Tom Brady circa 2001-2004 was pretty much a game manager. In those years, statistically he didn't do much more than what Cassell would do 4 years later in 2008. Those offenses in particular were more ground & pound & smothering defense.....Belichick signature. was not only in that 1 season with Cassell..but in the small sample size with Brissett...hell you could even go back to his days in Cleveland whenBrady has yet to do anything without
Again, your one season you are trying to put up next to 5 or 6 others on two different teams is laughable and probably the worst "desperation" argument I've ever seen. I already acknowledged this, and reminded you that there was a "5 game drop-off" from the season before which was an undefeated team. So the only argument you are even using is one season where Belicheck had a team that went undefeated the season before, and lost an extra 5 games the next year. All you're doing is proving that Belicheck owes that 50% to Brady based on the numbers. This lame idea that you can just cancel out an entire era in Cleveland, because it doesn't fit a narrative isn't acceptable. You don't even want to address the statistics that you started this argument off with. It means you agree when it comes down to it.
 


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