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Clowney VS Mercilus VS Frank Clark

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
The underwhelming start of life as a Chief for Frank Clark continues. The former Seahawk has struggled to make a consistent impact rushing the passer through the first three weeks, and nothing changed against Detroit as he was far too quiet for how much he was on the field. There have been flashes, but the Chiefs spent big and invested heavily for Clark to bring a new dimension to their pass-rusher, and that has simply failed to materialize.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-week-4-pff-refocused-kansas-city-chiefs-34-detroit-lions-30

Whitney Mercilus’ strip-sack was an example of the complementary relationship between inside and outside pass-rushers, as D.J. Reader’s bull-rush from the middle of the line flushed Allen out to a position where Mercilus could make the sack.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-week-4-pff-refocused-carolina-panthers-16-houston-texans-10-2

Jadeveon Clowney was looking like the player the Seahawks traded for in this game. He was a constant in the backfield on passing downs. His pick-six was an unbelievable play, as well. He sniffed out the screen and made a one-handed pick all while being blocked.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-week-4-pff-refocused-seattle-seahawks-27-arizona-cardinals-10
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Mercilus ---- 15 Tackles --- 12 Solo --- 3 Asists --- 5.5 TFL --- 5 Sacks --- 6 QBH --- 1 Pick

Clowney ----- 6 Tackles ----- 2 Solo --- 4 Asists --- 1.5 TFL --- 1 Sack ---- 1 QBH --- 1 Pick6
Where are those stats from? I've never seen tackles for loss in halves.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Dont look now but hey we're winning the penalty stat line also! :hurrah:

JDC - 2 offsides to date

#59 - Zero

JDC had 13 penalties for 95 yards last year (lead the team)
That’s his game though. Being explosive off the ball. You take the bad with him for sure.

To me it was less about Clowney vs Mercilus and more about our lack of ability to utilize them both in effective ways.
 
That’s his game though. Being explosive off the ball. You take the bad with him for sure.

To me it was less about Clowney vs Mercilus and more about our lack of ability to utilize them both in effective ways.
Everything should be considered. Even penalties on the sideline at a critical time. Clowney seems to make more big mistakes at big times than most players. When comparing his production to someone else a more accurate comparison is a net comparison not just the gross.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
That’s his game though. Being explosive off the ball. You take the bad with him for sure.

To me it was less about Clowney vs Mercilus and more about our lack of ability to utilize them both in effective ways.
That's a pretty big bad though when a good line knows that they can routinely get him to jump off sides and pick up a free first down. Honestly if I was other teams I'd line whomever I've got that's best at that across from him and try and get him to do it every play. Being explosive off the ball is all well and good but when that explosion is blowing up in his team's face a lot that a problem.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Site Contributor
That's a pretty big bad though when a good line knows that they can routinely get him to jump off sides and pick up a free first down. Honestly if I was other teams I'd line whomever I've got that's best at that across from him and try and get him to do it every play. Being explosive off the ball is all well and good but when that explosion is blowing up in his team's face a lot that a problem.
And you expect that the explosiveness of a DE or OLB would translate into sacks.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
And you expect that the explosiveness of a DE or OLB would translate into sacks.
Agreed, its why I never was impressed with Clowney. He's great against the run, who cares, this is a QB driven league and has been for 2 decades now. Plus you look at Clowney's stats and they are as close to identical as you can realistically get. That strikes me as a player that has either plateaued on their ability or is not putting any work into improving and I'm not seeing anything in Seattle to make me think otherwise. I didn't like the trade and think we could have gotten better value if it was handled different but I was, and still feel this way, all for moving Clowney off the team once his rookie deal was up.
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
Agreed, its why I never was impressed with Clowney. He's great against the run, who cares, this is a QB driven league and has been for 2 decades now. Plus you look at Clowney's stats and they are as close to identical as you can realistically get. That strikes me as a player that has either plateaued on their ability or is not putting any work into improving and I'm not seeing anything in Seattle to make me think otherwise. I didn't like the trade and think we could have gotten better value if it was handled different but I was, and still feel this way, all for moving Clowney off the team once his rookie deal was up.
So I’ve been watching Clowney tonight and it’s obvious he’s just not very effective with his hand in the dirt. Maybe we were using him right? He’s still only utilizing a bull rush or a speed rush. If he’s been working on his moves then he’s regressed back because I’ve not seen anything from him tonight. He’s no Donald, Mack or even JJ.......
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Frankly without JJ to strike fear into the QBs Clowney is getting exposed. Really lends credit to all the reports that is doesn't put the work in to improve and falls back on, admittedly, amazing athletic ability.

Meanwhile Mercilus has stepped his game up to new heights and is putting himself in that "players we have to find money for" category. Thankfully our GM is a personael genius and will make sure we get great value and retain our players........yeah we're screwed.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Clowney is a athlete playing football vs a athletic football player. He's never been able to bend and that's why most oline just guide him past the qb.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Clowney is a athlete playing football vs a athletic football player. He's never been able to bend and that's why most oline just guide him past the qb.
Maybe so but he was the most double teamed edge last year and that opened things for everyone else. No question the defense is worse
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Maybe so but he was the most double teamed edge last year and that opened things for everyone else. No question the defense is worse
No one said it wasn’t worse, just about anytime you lose a player without their clear replacement in place it’s worse, but it wasn’t near the impact some thought it would be. Clowney isn’t much help to Seattle but then Seattle is only paying half his price tag so value wise I guess they are getting their money’s worth. If he keeps playing like he is now then no way he gets that big pay day he wants from contender teams, he just isn’t worth the money.

Even Frank Clark isn’t making a big impact on his new team. Week 4 and Mercilus is looking like the best of the bunch, could the Texans have accidentally picked the right player for once?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
No one said it wasn’t worse, just about anytime you lose a player without their clear replacement in place it’s worse, but it wasn’t near the impact some thought it would be. Clowney isn’t much help to Seattle but then Seattle is only paying half his price tag so value wise I guess they are getting their money’s worth. If he keeps playing like he is now then no way he gets that big pay day he wants from contender teams, he just isn’t worth the money.

Even Frank Clark isn’t making a big impact on his new team. Week 4 and Mercilus is looking like the best of the bunch, could the Texans have accidentally picked the right player for once?
Mervilus isn't drawing any double teams. I would guess clowney gets the bigger contract. He's still having an impact. Frank is a bust


@PFF: A look at the top grades from the Seattle defense from TNF! https://t.co/Gdb84Qt4cj
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Maybe so but he was the most double teamed edge last year and that opened things for everyone else. No question the defense is worse
I highly doubt he was double teamed more than JJ. When JJ was a wrecking ball, he was getting double alot. You rush your way into a double team
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I highly doubt he was double teamed more than JJ. When JJ was a wrecking ball, he was getting double alot. You rush your way into a double team


Tweet from @SethWalder: No player was double teamed at a higher rate as an edge rusher last season than Jadeveon Clowney (33%), according to ESPN passrushing metrics powered by NFL Next Gen Stats.
 

417Texans

Veteran
Run defense worse? Really?
You did watch the Texans defense stop an elite running back in Leonard Fournette on Sunday didn't you? Actually, Mercilus is very good at sealing the edge, Reader is a wall in the middle, no one gets by Watt and Mckinney and Cunningham are definite hole plugs in the middle. Fournette had no place to run and, you did see Reid stop him on the goal line on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game didn't you?
I'd say the Texans run defense is actually pretty darn good.



Clowney was not worth the cheddar
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Not hating on mercilus but what did he do today? I felt watt and reader were being more impactful
I should have been more clear, I was talking about the overall comparisons of the three. Clark got owned today and looked like an old man out there. To expand on the point Clark and Clowney have shown they can’t get to the QB and can’t put fear in defenses. Clowney at least is good against the run but what is Clark at if he can’t get to a QB?

Mercilus isn’t as impactful for our team as Watt and Reader, you’re right on that, but compared to Clowney and Clark he’s a bad ass for us.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I should have been more clear, I was talking about the overall comparisons of the three. Clark got owned today and looked like an old man out there. To expand on the point Clark and Clowney have shown they can’t get to the QB and can’t put fear in defenses. Clowney at least is good against the run but what is Clark at if he can’t get to a QB?

Mercilus isn’t as impactful for our team as Watt and Reader, you’re right on that, but compared to Clowney and Clark he’s a bad ass for us.
I agree Clark has been a bust. But I like clowney here because he soaks up attention so watt can get to the QB
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
I would pay Reader before I pay Mercilus. Reader could be our Vince Wilfork.
I like Reader, but he shouldn't be in the "get paid like a top 5 DT" category. He should get paid but it won't be anything like a top 10 pass rusher.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Honestly I haven’t noticed him gone. Watt seems to be doing just fine and Reader has really stepped up along with Mercilus.
Well, last year watt and clowney combined for 25 sacks and elite run defense. Don't think watt and mercilus will quite do that this year though they are very good
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
16.5 sacks were from watt. plus all JC's sacks were from trash team and he only got 9 sacks.

watt and marciis already on pace to get more than 25 sacks together. what have you been watching?
Watt has 4, mercilus has 5. They are on Pace for 24. That's more than I expected but with clowney not drawing away all those double teams it wi be hard for watt to get 16. Mercilus will have to make it up
 


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