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Clowney VS Mercilus VS Frank Clark

Wolf12339

Veteran
I figured it would be interesting to see what Impact Each player involved in the trades has had.

Overall Defensive Rating PFF Rankings
1. Whitney mercilus
2. J. J Watt
3 Jacob Martin
4. Jadeveon Clowney
5. Frank Clark

Overall Pressures
1. Mercilus-8
2. Watt-7
3 Clowney-6
4. Jacob Martin-3
5. Frank Clark-1

Run Defense Rating
1. Jadeveon Clowney
2. Whitney Mercilus
3. J.J Watt
4. Jacob Martin

PRP-Sacks, Hits, Hurries relative to how many times they rush the passer.
1.
Breenan Scarlett -10.7%
2. Jacob Martin-7.9%
3. Whitney mercilus-7.7%
4. Jadeveon Clowney-5.9
5. J. J Watt-4.3%
6. Frank Clark .9%


Some Take aways here. The Frank Clark trade looks pretty rough the first 2 weeks for the Chiefs..
-Jacob Martin looks like a very real find as a 3rd rusher.
-Clowney is still very good against the RUN
-Whitney mercilus has taken his game to another level
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I figured it would be interesting to see what Impact Each player involved in the trades has had.

Overall Defensive Rating PFF Rankings
1. Whitney Mercilus ????????
2. J. J Watt ????
3 Jacob Martin????
4. Jadeveon Clowney????
5. Frank Clark ????

Overall Pressures
1. Mercilus-8
2. Watt-7
3 Clowney-6
4. Jacob Martin-3
5. Frank Clark-1

Run Defense Rating
1. Jadeveon Clowney????
2. Whitney Mercilus ????
3. J.J Watt ???
4. Jacob Martin ????

PRP-Sacks, Hits, Hurries relative to how many times they rush the passer.
1.
Breenan Scarlett -10.7%
2. Jacob Martin-7.9%
3. Whitney mercilus-7.7%
4. Jadeveon Clowney-5.9
5. J. J Watt-4.3%
6. Frank Clark .9%


Some Take aways here. The Frank Clark trade looks pretty rough the first 2 weeks for the Chiefs..
-Jacob Martin looks like a very real find as a 3rd rusher.
-Clowney is still very good against the RUN
-Whitney mercilus has taken his game to another level
What are the ratings????

It’s really to small a sample size now but good idea. Will be interesting to see how this goes. I’m very happy with Mercilous as a pass rusher. Interested in his actual run defense rating because it seemed he had a hard time maintaining the edge against NO. Maybe I’m wrong. I thought Mercilus had lost his game. Good to see I was apparently wrong on that.
 

welsh texan

Site Contributor
What are the ratings????

It’s really to small a sample size now but good idea. Will be interesting to see how this goes. I’m very happy with Mercilous as a pass rusher. Interested in his actual run defense rating because it seemed he had a hard time maintaining the edge against NO. Maybe I’m wrong. I thought Mercilus had lost his game. Good to see I was apparently wrong on that.
He's always played better on that side though. He's a really good pass rusher, useless in coverage.

Whenever either Clowney was injured or moved to DL due to JJ being injured, Whitney always produced the goods.

Now, it shouldnt be difficult to find someone who can do what Mercilus was asked to do last season to a higher standard either, and this is why the Clowney drop off wasnt worth the drama of a holdout.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Now, it shouldnt be difficult to find someone who can do what Mercilus was asked to do last season to a higher standard either, and this is why the Clowney drop off wasnt worth the drama of a holdout.

Not to disagree - Mercilus has been very good so far and all but made us forget who Clowney was … as far as pass rushing.

One thing to note , Mercilus is in the final year of his deal and he's gonna want a BIG contract if he keeps this up. Even if its not a "Huge" deal , he's due a substantial raise from $5,750,000.

We could potentially be right back in the same contract impasse situation.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Not to disagree - Mercilus has been very good so far and all but made us forget who Clowney was … as far as pass rushing.

One thing to note , Mercilus is in the final year of his deal and he's gonna want a BIG contract if he keeps this up. Even if its not a "Huge" deal , he's due a substantial raise from $5,750,000.

We could potentially be right back in the same contract impasse situation.
I'd rather have Mercilus for $10M than Clowney for $20M.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Maybe but this year clowney cost $15m and we are paying half his salary to play for Seattle


Mercilus is playing well, but as far as I can tell he isn't drawing double teams like watt and clowney do
We weren't stopping QBs when we had Watt and Clowney drawing those double teams so why would you want Watt and Mercilus to draw double teams? Let him learn to beat someone 1v1 and hammer the QB.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
We weren't stopping QBs when we had Watt and Clowney drawing those double teams so why would you want Watt and Mercilus to draw double teams? Let him learn to beat someone 1v1 and hammer the QB.
I think the defense and pass rush will be much worse without clowney this year, but it's early. We know the run defense will be worse
 

JamTex

Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
I think the defense and pass rush will be much worse without clowney this year, but it's early. We know the run defense will be worse
Run defense worse? Really?
You did watch the Texans defense stop an elite running back in Leonard Fournette on Sunday didn't you? Actually, Mercilus is very good at sealing the edge, Reader is a wall in the middle, no one gets by Watt and Mckinney and Cunningham are definite hole plugs in the middle. Fournette had no place to run and, you did see Reid stop him on the goal line on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game didn't you?
I'd say the Texans run defense is actually pretty darn good.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Run defense worse?Really?
You did watch the Texans defense stop an elite running back in Leonard Fournette on Sunday didn't you? Actually, Mercilus is very good at sealing the edge, Reader is a wall in the middle, no one gets by Watt and Mckinney and Cunningham are definite hole plugs in the middle. Fournette had no place to run and, you did see Reid stop him on the goal line on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game didn't you?
I'd say the Texans run defense is actually pretty darn good.
Fournette is not elite and I'm not sure he's even good. He averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year. The guy looks like he's running in mud.

The saints backs averaged over 7 yards against the Texans.

I don't know that the Texans run defense will be bad, but it will be worse without arguably the best run defender in the game
 
Last edited:

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Fournette is not elite and I'm not sure he's even good. He averaged 3.3 yards per carry last year. The guy looks like he's running in mud.

The saints backs averaged over 7 yards against the Texans.

I don't know that the Texans run defense will be bad, but it will be worse with arguably the worst run defender in the game
who is the worst run defender in the league? Are you saying that is Whitney?? Maybe when they put in their new toy in Martin, but Mercilus? Dude is nowhere near worst run defender
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
who is the worst run defender in the league? Are you saying that is Whitney?? Maybe when they put in their new toy in Martin, but Mercilus? Dude is nowhere near worst run defender
I meant to say clowney is the best defender in the league. Editing.

Mercilus is not a bad run defender but Martin is
 

welsh texan

Site Contributor
JJ looks like he's playing a more disciplined role this season also. Its one to keep an eye on.

You go from having 2 freelancers and a 3rd piece playing a role against his strengths, to a group of 7 doing the job they are best suited to.

You wont catch me downplaying JDC's ability anywhere, but the D doesnt need to be far worse because we lost him.

There is big improvement to come from the secondary also. Justin Reid is learning how to captain that unit, something he didnt do in his rookie season, and apart from him and Joseph, everybody is new.

Its the playcalling that is lacking. I do agree with SteelB above, the ability for this team to fill holes through the draft scares me, something we could be chasing for 5 years.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
JJ looks like he's playing a more disciplined role this season also. Its one to keep an eye on.

You go from having 2 freelancers and a 3rd piece playing a role against his strengths, to a group of 7 doing the job they are best suited to.

You wont catch me downplaying JDC's ability anywhere, but the D doesnt need to be far worse because we lost him.

There is big improvement to come from the secondary also. Justin Reid is learning how to captain that unit, something he didnt do in his rookie season, and apart from him and Joseph, everybody is new.

Its the playcalling that is lacking. I do agree with SteelB above, the ability for this team to fill holes through the draft scares me, something we could be chasing for 5 years.
They have enough picks in rds 2-3 to fill those holes. They can even use the extra picks to trade up if need be.

I actually hope they trade one of the 3rds for a 2021 2nd. Depending on who's there when they're picking.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Run defense has been fine without Clowney...so far. The saints averaged what they averaged basically b/c of 2 plays by Murray and Kamara...both of which were more about bad tackling than the actual ability of those defending the run. Those 2 plays in particular we were also gashed on last year with the supposed best run defender in the league b/c they are designed to take advantage of the edge guy getting up the field.
 
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mussop

Hall of Fame
Run defense worse? Really?
You did watch the Texans defense stop an elite running back in Leonard Fournette on Sunday didn't you? Actually, Mercilus is very good at sealing the edge, Reader is a wall in the middle, no one gets by Watt and Mckinney and Cunningham are definite hole plugs in the middle. Fournette had no place to run and, you did see Reid stop him on the goal line on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game didn't you?
I'd say the Texans run defense is actually pretty darn good.
Fornette is a bust. Did you watch Kamara?
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
I still think the Texans know more about his knee than they are willing to say. Perhaps it's a ticking time bomb, and he just wants his guaranteed money before it goes off. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems logical, all things considered.

I've always like Mercilus, and hope this two game start is a sign of things to come this season.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I still think the Texans know more about his knee than they are willing to say. Perhaps it's a ticking time bomb, and he just wants his guaranteed money before it goes off. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems logical, all things considered.

I've always like Mercilus, and hope this two game start is a sign of things to come this season.
^^^^
This
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
I still think the Texans know more about his knee than they are willing to say. Perhaps it's a ticking time bomb, and he just wants his guaranteed money before it goes off. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems logical, all things considered.

I've always like Mercilus, and hope this two game start is a sign of things to come this season.
Even more reason to play him on the tag for one year.

The trade was just dumb from any angle, even the knee angle.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Even more reason to play him on the tag for one year.

The trade was just dumb from any angle, even the knee angle.
I don't disagree. My personal take is that it felt personal between O'Brien & Clowney, but I have no evidence to support my assumption. It's mainly based on the deal itself and rush to get it over with at the first chance.
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
Run defense worse? Really?
You did watch the Texans defense stop an elite running back in Leonard Fournette on Sunday didn't you? Actually, Mercilus is very good at sealing the edge, Reader is a wall in the middle, no one gets by Watt and Mckinney and Cunningham are definite hole plugs in the middle. Fournette had no place to run and, you did see Reid stop him on the goal line on the 2 point attempt at the end of the game didn't you?
I'd say the Texans run defense is actually pretty darn good.
Leonard Fournette is not an elite back....yet. We've only played 1 elite back so far in 2 games this year....and Kamara ran wild on us.
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
I still think the Texans know more about his knee than they are willing to say. Perhaps it's a ticking time bomb, and he just wants his guaranteed money before it goes off. Pure speculation on my part, but it seems logical, all things considered.

I've always like Mercilus, and hope this two game start is a sign of things to come this season.
I'm just curious what the time frame is on this "ticking time bomb" knee issue? Sure, if his knee implodes in the next year or 2, then yes, we dodged a bullet. 3 years, I say it's give or take. 4 or 5 years, then we were foolish to lose him for effectively what we would have gotten in return as a compensatory pick.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Oh good. We should be able to find that quality in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th round.
If we have a pick in the third?? Do we have any picks at all this year??
I have lost count.
They have in 2020 atleast

2nd
Two 3rds atleast
Two 4ths including Miami's which will be 4-1.

So yes they have picks to move up in the draft if they choose too and yes if they do their jobs properly they should be able to find talent. Why are you so worried? They got their cornerstone LT and the 2018 draft should be comforting to you.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
They have in 2020 atleast

2nd
Two 3rds atleast
Two 4ths including Miami's which will be 4-1.

So yes they have picks to move up in the draft if they choose too and yes if they do their jobs properly they should be able to find talent. Why are you so worried? They got their cornerstone LT and the 2018 draft should be comforting to you.
There's only one player from that draft doing well and Crennel picked him
 

KemahKeith

Rookie
They have in 2020 atleast

2nd
Two 3rds atleast
Two 4ths including Miami's which will be 4-1.

So yes they have picks to move up in the draft if they choose too and yes if they do their jobs properly they should be able to find talent. Why are you so worried? They got their cornerstone LT and the 2018 draft should be comforting to you.
Was an attempt at levity. I'm all in on Tunsil.
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
They have in 2020 atleast

2nd
Two 3rds atleast
Two 4ths including Miami's which will be 4-1.

So yes they have picks to move up in the draft if they choose too and yes if they do their jobs properly they should be able to find talent. Why are you so worried? They got their cornerstone LT and the 2018 draft should be comforting to you.
Let's go over the 2018 draftees and how they stack up so far:
Justin Reid - Quality starter
Martinas Rankin - Gone - Don't care
Jordan Akins - Not used properly or enough
Keke Coutee - good......when not hurt (see: Will Fuller V)
Duke Ejiofor - Not sure.....he had 9 tackles and 1 sack in 2018...he's done for 2019
Jordan Thomas - (See Jordan Akins)
Peter Kalambayi - good ST'er....is that it?
Jermaine Kelly - waived/injured

So Reid is the only player who I am actually excited about. I could get there with Akins/Thomas/Coutee, but 1 needs to stay injury free and the others need to be used properly. Doesn't exactly set my world on fire when looking at that list.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
There's only one player from that draft doing well and Crennel picked him
Reid is doing well
Akins is starting, he was open several times last game and Watson didn't see him.
Coutee is promising when healthy and is a starter.
Ejafor- looked good last yr before he got hurt.
PK- Really good ST's guy a great pick for this late in the draft.
Thomas- showed promise.

We've been through this, what more did you expect? I mean they found a future pro bowler and 2 starters as well as ST's upgrade, what more did you expect out of a draft with no 1st/2nd rd picks?
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
I'm just curious what the time frame is on this "ticking time bomb" knee issue? Sure, if his knee implodes in the next year or 2, then yes, we dodged a bullet. 3 years, I say it's give or take. 4 or 5 years, then we were foolish to lose him for effectively what we would have gotten in return as a compensatory pick.
I'd be curious, too. Like I said, I have no inside info and my opinions are purely speculative.

This was said by a doctor about his surgery in 2014, so figure a 2nd surgery and a couple of seasons of wear & tear on it since then:

"Microfracture is sort of losing favor these days in large part. … It's more of a short-term remedy," said Timothy Hewett, director of research for Ohio State University Sports Medicine. "But if you look at the longer-term outcomes after microfracture, they're not very good. And this is especially apparent in the NBA. Some really high profile players in the NBA (such as Greg Oden) had microfracture and did not do well.

"If you look at the data … if you have a relatively small lesion, and you want to get the player back relatively quickly, it's an OK short-term solution."

He said larger holes pose a larger challenge.

"If you're really going to push that knee hard, it may not be the best choice because the outcomes lately when people have been comparing microfracture with other methods for cartilage restoration … those appear to do significantly better over the long term," said Hewett. Source
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Reid is doing well
Akins is starting, he was open several times last game and Watson didn't see him.
Coutee is promising when healthy and is a starter.
Ejafor- looked good last yr before he got hurt.
PK- Really good ST's guy a great pick for this late in the draft.
Thomas- showed promise.

We've been through this, what more did you expect? I mean they found a future pro bowler and 2 starters as well as ST's upgrade, what more did you expect out of a draft with no 1st/2nd rd picks?
I didn't expect more. But expecting to find a bunch of immediate starters at CB/edge in a draft without high picks isn't realistic
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
N



o he didn’t...Kamara did most of his major damage to us with the pass. Even still, great players tend to do that..especially if he’s got a HOF/good qb he can fall back on.
Alvin Kamara stat line against us:
Rushing 13 for 97 yards with a 7.5 ypc avg
Receiving 7 for 72 with a 10.3 ypr avg

To say he did most of his damage in the receiving game is just flat out wrong. He burned us both ways.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Alvin Kamara stat line against us:
Rushing 13 for 97 yards with a 7.5 ypc avg
Receiving 7 for 72 with a 10.3 ypr avg

To say he did most of his damage in the receiving game is just flat out wrong. He burned us both ways.
And Murray ran 6 times for 43 yards.
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
And Murray ran 6 times for 43 yards.
So what we're effectively saying is:

Perhaps if we had an elite run defender, it may not have been so bad? Maybe Murray/Kamara wouldn't have been able to put the offense in the position to easily score and we could be sitting at 2-0 right now. The final 37 seconds don't matter if Murray/Kamara don't light us up in the run game like they did.

I'll add that even if you take away Kamara's long of 28 yards.....he still would have had a 5.75 ypc rushing avg.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Let's go over the 2018 draftees and how they stack up so far:
Justin Reid - Quality starter
Martinas Rankin - Gone - Don't care
Jordan Akins - Not used properly or enough
Keke Coutee - good......when not hurt (see: Will Fuller V)
Duke Ejiofor - Not sure.....he had 9 tackles and 1 sack in 2018...he's done for 2019
Jordan Thomas - (See Jordan Akins)
Peter Kalambayi - good ST'er....is that it?
Jermaine Kelly - waived/injured

So Reid is the only player who I am actually excited about. I could get there with Akins/Thomas/Coutee, but 1 needs to stay injury free and the others need to be used properly. Doesn't exactly set my world on fire when looking at that list.
Finding 3 starters and ST's guys dont do it for you despite not having 1st 2nd rd picks.

Akins had a great camp and it's not his fault Watson cant seem to find him.

In last yrs playoff game Coutee had 10 catches and a TD. He also was the most productive slot WR the Texans have had despite being injured much of last yr.

How can you not be positive.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Alvin Kamara stat line against us:
Rushing 13 for 97 yards with a 7.5 ypc avg
Receiving 7 for 72 with a 10.3 ypr avg

To say he did most of his damage in the receiving game is just flat out wrong. He burned us both ways.
No it’s not considering His biggest play of the day was a pass he caught that went for 40 yards by itself that led to their 1st TD coming out in the 3rd. He also had a couple of other pass plays that went for 10+.

In terms of the run game, He had 2 big runs all night but he wasn’t continuously gashing us.
 

CPTTexan

Veteran
Finding 3 starters and ST's guys dont do it for you despite not having 1st 2nd rd picks.

Akins had a great camp and it's not his fault Watson cant seem to find him.

In last yrs playoff game Coutee had 10 catches and a TD. He also was the most productive slot WR the Texans have had despite being injured much of last yr.

How can you not be positive.
I stated my reasons. Just because they are starters doesn't mean they are utilized properly. Again, what's the point of having 17 TE's on the team if we don't properly use them other than blocking TE's? Just start Fells if you want your TE to mainly block. Again, Coutee could be great for us. He has definitely shown flashes of why it was a good pickup. My 1 and only concern is his injury history. Dude can't seem to not get hurt and miss multiple games. Until he shows me otherwise, I'll chalk him up to potential great pickup. Right now, he's just flashy when on the field. "Good" ST'ers are a dime a dozen. "Great" ST'ers (Matthew Slater) are rare. Kalambayi is not Slater.
 


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