Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I'm at the point where I don't really care what happens and would really like to not see this thread everyday...
If they sign him...hooray...If they don't....hooray...
whatever....
/END Thread
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I'm at the point where I don't really care what happens and would really like to not see this thread everyday...
If they sign him...hooray...If they don't....hooray...
whatever....
I'm at the point where I don't really care what happens and would really like to not see this thread everyday...
If they sign him...hooray...If they don't....hooray...
whatever....
And the pendulum starts to swing back toward reasonableness.
I'm not very concerned about the Dunta situation, either he signs the FA tender or he sits. Judging by his performance last season coming off injury Fred Bennett or Antwan Molden wont be a huge dropoff if at all.
Dunta can prove us all however if he just shuts up and proves that he's 100% post injury. Maybe then he'll become the # 1 CB that we've always wanted him to be now that it seems we'll have someone other than Mario rushing the passer to give the CBs less time to cover?
Every time I return to this thread, I get dehydrated.
I think Dunta is playing a pretty stupid game of chicken if you ask me. The team can't see him working in the offseason as it is, but as camps start to get closer he's risking making himself less NEEDED in the secondary which is why the team tagged him in the first place. There's a new secondary coach who from what I've gathered has a decent track record in Gibbs, you've got two young corners in Bennett and Molden. Bennett looked pretty good starting in his rookie year, but probably regressed under Hoke and Smith. Molden has the physical attributes, was a special teams ace last year, and was about to get playing time before his injury. As the offseason wears on what if one or both of those guys start to take off under Gibbs in this secondary? Dunta's leverage dimishes a lot. IMO it is in Dunta's best interest if he wants to stay with the team, to get the offer signed and in camp.
And the pendulum starts to swing back toward reasonableness.
Franchise him and give him his little promise that you won't franchise him next year and he'll have to play his ass off for the big payday so if he does somebody will give him his gigantic contract (and Houston will make the playoffs if he has a career year)....if he plays like crap, he won't be that hard to resign.
Either way, Houston needs to find his replacement (which I already think is on the roster...I actually like our depth at CB)
Franchise him, force him to have a career year, then tell him to not let the door hit his ass on the way out. Then take the money we saved and sign the players that are out there on the field (DeMeco and Owen).
Franchise him and give him his little promise that you won't franchise him next year and he'll have to play his ass off for the big payday so if he does somebody will give him his gigantic contract (and Houston will make the playoffs if he has a career year)....if he plays like crap, he won't be that hard to resign.
Either way, Houston needs to find his replacement (which I already think is on the roster...I actually like our depth at CB)
Franchise him, force him to have a career year, then tell him to not let the door hit his ass on the way out. Then take the money we saved and sign the players that are out there on the field (DeMeco and Owen).
No, Dunta said he would sign the Texans franchise offer sheet if it included a restriction that they could not use the tag on Robinson in 2010. He also suggested a contract where if he meet certain unnamed incentives, the franchise tag could not be exercised. Robinson isn't asking for a promise. He wants it in writing.Wait a minute. This all started when Dunta claimed he was lied to by Rick Smith about not using the franchise tag. Now he's saying he will come back when Rick Smith makes him a promise about not using the franchise tag???
Wait a minute. This all started when Dunta claimed he was lied to by Rick Smith about not using the franchise tag. Now he's saying he will come back when Rick Smith makes him a promise about not using the franchise tag???
You can get that put into the contract. It's been done before.
Isn't that what happened with Haynesworth? Made the pro-bowl this year and the Titans couldn't exercise the tag on him?
I agree that that's unlikely. What I disagree with is the notion of franchising Dunta a 2nd season. He would get an automatic 20% raise in 2010, making his salary almost $12 million. If the Texans wanted to pay Robinson $22 million guaranteed over just 2 seasons, I'm pretty sure they could have reached terms way before it got to this point. Franchising Robinson is not an option for 2010. So why not just give him the deal in writing, get the guy in camp, and get ready for a very important 2009 season?actually agreeing to the waiver is the short sighted move. we all know dunta isnt going to wait till week 10 to sign.
I agree that that's unlikely. What I disagree with is the notion of franchising Dunta a 2nd season. He would get an automatic 20% raise in 2010, making his salary almost $12 million. If the Texans wanted to pay Robinson $22 million guaranteed over just 2 seasons, I'm pretty sure they could have reached terms way before it got to this point. Franchising Robinson is not an option for 2010. So why not just give him the deal in writing, get the guy in camp, and get ready for a very important 2009 season?
Bad precedent? The bad precedent was using the tag in the first place. And with a new CBA in the future, I seriously doubt the franchise tag will exist in its current form, if at all.For one it sets a bad precedent. I would also hope that if this is Dunta's last season in Houston we would be able to trade him for a draft pick instead of letting him walk and once we agree not to re-tag him this possibility disappears.
I agree that that's unlikely. What I disagree with is the notion of franchising Dunta a 2nd season. He would get an automatic 20% raise in 2010, making his salary almost $12 million. If the Texans wanted to pay Robinson $22 million guaranteed over just 2 seasons, I'm pretty sure they could have reached terms way before it got to this point. Franchising Robinson is not an option for 2010. So why not just give him the deal in writing, get the guy in camp, and get ready for a very important 2009 season?
$12 million will be the cost of placing a franchise tag on Dunta in 2010. If they were going to spend $22 million in guaranteed money on Robinson over two years, they could have re-signed him this offseason. It's not going to happen, so why not give Dunta the written assurance it won't happen? Show some good faith, and the Texans stand a better chance of re-signing Robinson to a long term deal. If they want to do that.Maybe I missed something, but why isn't the franchinse tag an option?
$12 million will be the cost of placing a franchise tag on Dunta in 2010. If they were going to spend $22 million in guaranteed money on Robinson over two years, they could have re-signed him this offseason. It's not going to happen, so why not give Dunta the written assurance it won't happen? Show some good faith, and the Texans stand a better chance of re-signing Robinson to a long term deal. If they want to do that.
Who knows what's in store for the next CBA? But, neither the owners or the players are happy with the franchise tag in its current form. The ability to tag a player for more than one year is likely to go away. One alternative for the franchise tag would be to force teams to match the the average of the top 5 contracts in it's entirety. Including years of the contracts and guaranteed money.
Maybe I missed something, but why isn't the franchinse tag an option?
Because of the CBA?
And....If it's assumed that the franchise tag won't exist or won't be the same in '10, why is Dunta asking to have it in writing that he won't be tagged again?
Bad precedent? The bad precedent was using the tag in the first place. And with a new CBA in the future, I seriously doubt the franchise tag will exist in its current form, if at all.
As far as using a tagged Dunta as trade bait, that's not going to happen. Guys who are tagged and traded play QB or D-line. Who is going to give a high draft pick to the Texans and give Dunta a big contract? It didn't happen this season, why would it happen in 2010?
$12 million will be the cost of placing a franchise tag on Dunta in 2010. If they were going to spend $22 million in guaranteed money on Robinson over two years, they could have re-signed him this offseason. It's not going to happen, so why not give Dunta the written assurance it won't happen? Show some good faith, and the Texans stand a better chance of re-signing Robinson to a long term deal. If they want to do that.
I agree that that's unlikely. What I disagree with is the notion of franchising Dunta a 2nd season. He would get an automatic 20% raise in 2010, making his salary almost $12 million. If the Texans wanted to pay Robinson $22 million guaranteed over just 2 seasons, I'm pretty sure they could have reached terms way before it got to this point. Franchising Robinson is not an option for 2010. So why not just give him the deal in writing, get the guy in camp, and get ready for a very important 2009 season?
So, can we summarize why Dunta didn't sign the Chris Gamble type deal? Was there not enough money? Was there not enough years? Was there some provision he needed to see?
I can't remember where we were.
It bothers me that he "outlined his terms to return" right before draft day.
espn said:Q: What's going on with Dunta Robinson and his contract issues with the Texans, and should I worry?
J. in Houston
A: Robinson has skipped voluntary work in Houston in the hopes of landing a long-term deal. He's coming off a major knee injury, so he has faced the fear of his career being over. Top cornerbacks make $10 million a year, and I'm sure Robinson is worried that he must still prove himself if he just gets a one-year offer. When you are rated as highly as Robinson among cornerbacks, you are hoping to cash in for the guaranteed long-term money. A one-year offer in the $9 million range doesn't compare to a $50 million or $60 million deal that has $20 million in guarantees. In the end, I think he will get that long-term deal. You should worry if he doesn't show up at training camp. That's where contract problems start to really hurt a team.
Let me preface by saying prior to this little contract dispute I loved Dunta. He can hit like a guy 30 lbs. heavier than he is and is never afraid to stick some body no matter who it is. He was a Team Leader and all around awesome player. To come back from his injury like he did is amazing,, you couldn't ask for a better player........ Until now. I totally understand him wanting to take care of his family, but I think the offer the Texans put out last was more than fair. It's not the Texans fault that he was injured that is just part of the game.
If Dunta thinks that the offer the Texans put out there wasn't good enough and he thinks he can do better than let's just find out. First I would tell Dunta and his agent that last thing that I want to do is lose Dunta as part of the orginization, but let's find out what the market is for D Rob.
My offer (If I were Rick Smith):
Let Dunta and his agent talk to teams about a trade. Depending on the team interested the offer would have to be a 2nd and a 5th for teams that would probably draft in 2010 in the bottom 16, and a 2nd and a 4th for teams probably drafting in the top 16. Now the hitch is that the money offered by this team has to be comparable as far as duration, and has to be substantially more than the Texans offer. If no team meets these obligations then that means the Texans offer is more than likley close to market value for a guy coming of an injury of the nature of Dunta's. Therefore Dunta has to swallow if pride and sign the last best offer the Texans put on the table.
I think Dunta needs to see that the Texans aren't insane and they have a good offer on the table, more than likely better than anything out there. I love(d) D Rob and everything about him, but he needs to look at the big picture here.
Big Lou, I think your plan hinges on the fact that teams wouldn't want to give up the draft choices, and I don't think that's the case. I think a team would snap him up at that cost.
Dunta was drafted #10 overall... He proved he was worth it, and he's entering the prime years of his career. I also think he showed enough last year to ease worries about the knee/leg.
Think about the trade value of that #10. To trade down to a 2nd and 4th/5th wouldn't nearly be enough, you'd have to add a later first at least.
Glad it's not just me...Huh????????
What I saw last year was a guy getting off a successful ACL surgery. His play looked a little tentative, a little unsure of the knee. That is perfectly normal, and is why people say it takes more than a year to be fully back from an ACL tear. He played in 11 games which is enough to convince me, and I expect him to play pro-bowl type CB next year. I'm of the opinion that some GM(s) will agree.
How do you justify the $23 million dollar contract the Texans' reportedly offered to him? The Texans' have 11 post-injury games on film, and plenty of doctors/trainers/coaches to evaluate the footage.He never played ProBowl caliber football. Furthermore, preinjury, he played on Texans Ds that would have made any average CB look like ProBowl material in comparison. You are correct about this year being his do or die ACL recovery. But there is absolutely no guarantee that what you saw last year is not the max level at which can or will ever performed. He has done nothing to PROVE himself worthy of a Texans long-term expensive contract. And unless there are dumb as hell GMs out there (and they are drying up quickly in this economy) that would chance that game, a one year jackpot will just have to do. If Dunta doesn't understand that, then he would be well served to seek employment as a "consultant" to one of those leftover dumb as hell GMs. Where is Casserly when you need him?
I was about to respond, when I realized that I had already covered this ground in another thread. Is there a need for a new Dunta thread? I don't think so. So...welcome to the "Dunta outlines terms" thread.If Dunta thinks that the offer the Texans put out there wasn't good enough and he thinks he can do better than let's just find out.