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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

give case 6 pro bowlers on offense like schaub did last year and i bet you he finds a way to score vs the vikings.

case has no offensive line, no running game, and no coaching. The odds are so thoroughly stacked against him yet he fnds a way to be productive. Complete opposite of schaub whose odds are stacked in his favor yet craps the bed.

Give case the same leeway and personnel support that schaub had. Lets be fair about this.
 
DocBar said:
More evidence that Case isn't a guraunteed thing in the NFL. I look forward to seeing him learn the rest of the season. Shaub needs to wear out the bench.
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you can say whatever you want about case but he still doesn't have a healthy starting RB. You have to run to keep the defense honest and broken rib tate and coaching plays aren't cutting it. so many holes in the team.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Why didn't that guy break down the second half? Guess I need to pay 9.95 for that part.
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Actually, he does. And there's no pay portion of the site that I know of.

Unless you were just deliberately choosing to be a jackass, in which case, carry on and ignore the analysis.
 
eriadoc said:
Actually, he does. And there's no pay portion of the site that I know of.

Unless you were just deliberately choosing to be a jackass, in which case, carry on and ignore the analysis.
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TexansSeminole said:
Evaluating Keenum...

He's clearly offering us better QB play than what Schaub was offering. He has shown enough promise to be given a shot, if not be the frontrunner, for the starting job next year.

Where a lot of people are getting caught up is whether or not he is good enough to avoid drafting a QB high next year.

The way I see it, Case would have to dominate for me not to be interested in a QB high in next year's draft.
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To me, Case would have to go brain dead & start doing stupid things with the ball. If you're watching the game & say to yourself, "WTF??" more than once, it's time to move on.

If not... he's our QB. Unless There's a guy like Aaron Rodgers who projects to be a quality starter.

& if they've got their eye on a guy they really like, but think will slide..... say an Andy Dalton, Tj Yates, Case Keenum, then wait. Don't go & get the next Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, or Christian Ponder.
 
legacy_gt said:
you can say whatever you want about case but he still doesn't have a healthy starting RB. You have to run to keep the defense honest and broken rib tate and coaching plays aren't cutting it. so many holes in the team.
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Not only has he not had one of the best RBs in the NFL since he started, BUT he has also been without O.D who is def one of the better ones in the league, and he has only had Kubiak calling the plays for him for 1 1/2 of his 3 games.

With all that given i'd say 800+ yards 7 TDs and 0 INTs isnt bad.

People can also say what they want, we lost to KC by 1 point in their house with NO RUNNING BACKS, we were crushing IND at halftime until Kubiak had his stroke, then we go to Arizona with Dennison calling his first game and lose by 3. All in all i'd say all things considered Keenum has done quite well.
 
Hervoyel said:
Can't help but see that quote from Dennison about how Kubiak shoots down his wacky ideas. Maybe that was just some BS he says to polish Kubes knob in the press or maybe he really is an ex-linebacker who doesn't have nearly the grasp of running a balanced offense that Gary has? Who knows. Just makes me wonder.
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We haven't had a healthy running back since Seattle.


infantrycak said:
This came up in another thread in the mock draft forum so:

Just thought I would look into this for perspective. Didn't want to argue over true franchise QB and so went with Hall of Fame + 2 we know will go.

Staubach 3 W
Aikman 3 L
Elway 2 W, 1 L - LOL, in the 2 wins he had 10 completions total, 1 in his 1st game.
Kelly 1 W, 2 L
Favre 1 W, 2 L
Manning 3 L
Marino 3 L
Brady 2 W, 1 L
Bradshaw 3 L
Young 1 W, 2 L
Montana 3 L

Total 10 W, 23 L

Draw from that what you will.
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Usually the teams around those franchise QBs aren't very good the year they were drafted. That explains most of that. I still think we've got a good team, a talented team. They just aren't playing very well for whatever reason.

But if we can use the eyeball test & determine Schaub ain't it, the eyeball should be telling us that QB is lower on our priority than several other positions.
 
Rey said:
Since his first start keenum has at least given us a shot to win games. That's something we hadn't been getting consistently. The qb play is better.
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We haven't been able to move the ball in the second half of any game Case has started.

That's no chance at all. I like Case, don't get me wrong. But our chances of winning was better with the guy that could get us across mid-field (heaven knows special teams can't).
 
thunderkyss said:
We haven't been able to move the ball in the second half of any game Case has started.

That's no chance at all. I like Case, don't get me wrong. But our chances of winning was better with the guy that could get us across mid-field (heaven knows special teams can't).
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Acting like we've only been a one-half team since Case got to play is nothing short of ridiculous.
 
EllisUnit said:
People can also say what they want, we lost to KC by 1 point in their house with NO RUNNING BACKS, we were crushing IND at halftime until Kubiak had his stroke, then we go to Arizona with Dennison calling his first game and lose by 3. All in all i'd say all things considered Keenum has done quite well.
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Little bit off-topic, but since we're not turning the ball over with as much regularity as Matt (needs to keep that damn helmet off) Schaub, the defensive numbers are starting to reflect what's actually happening. Our lead for the #1 defense in the league has shrunk to 3 yards/game.
 
Vance87 said:
Acting like we've only been a one-half team since Case got to play is nothing short of ridiculous.
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're the same 1 half team we were. It just looks better with Case making plays in the first half.
 
thunderkyss said:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're the same 1 half team we were. It just looks better with Case making plays in the first half.
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What you're saying is you think Schaub gives us a better chance to win because in the second half he consistently moves the ball across midfield (has he really?).

Sorry, saying Schaub gives us a better chance to win renders my mind into co-compute mode. And anything you say automatically becomes irrelevant.
 
Vance87 said:
What you're saying is you think Schaub gives us a better chance to win because in the second half he consistently moves the ball across midfield (has he really?).

Sorry, saying Schaub gives us a better chance to win renders my mind into co-compute mode. And anything you say automatically becomes irrelevant.
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TK is all about entertainment value.:lol:
 
Keenum got the best of McGloin (and Penn State) in the bowl game last year and he'll do it again Sunday vs. the Raiders.

In fact, I think getting a chance to go against him again will be a little extra motivation. I expect Keenum to have a breakout game - and a strong second half.
 
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thunderkyss said:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we're the same 1 half team we were. It just looks better with Case making plays in the first half.
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I believe this is due to the lack of a running game. I think teams start the game with at least some respect for the run, but due to shoddy blocking and and banged up RB, they quickly lose that respect and start pinning their ears back.
 
otisbean said:
I believe this is due to the lack of a running game. I think teams start the game with at least some respect for the run, but due to shoddy blocking and and banged up RB, they quickly lose that respect and start pinning their ears back.
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Otis, IMHO, they just out schemed and outplayed us just enough to win the games. I give them coaches and players credit too.
 
Case Keenum gives us a better chance to win the game than Schaub does. That doesn't mean the rest of the players and coaches do their job enough to win. Just because you have a better dog doesn't mean you're gonna beat the bigger dog.
 
otisbean said:
I believe this is due to the lack of a running game. I think teams start the game with at least some respect for the run, but due to shoddy blocking and and banged up RB, they quickly lose that respect and start pinning their ears back.
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Definitely a big part of it.
 
76Texan said:
Otis, IMHO, they just out schemed and outplayed us just enough to win the games. I give them coaches and players credit too.
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No doubt, we lost 3 close games to 3 good teams. In watching the games Case has started, to my eye, you can tell in the second half the defense completely disregards the running game and just flat out attacks Case. It's tough for any QB in this scenario. I think this is why Case struggles in the second half. Our coaching staff needs to make adjustments, and come up with a way to better attack the blitz and burn them a couple times. Oh, and it would help if our line and RBs would block a bit better

On a side note, I'm wondering if our hot reads are too predictable in general. I don't watch the all 22 footage but it seems even going to back to Schaub, the opposing teams seem to know where we are going with the ball when they blitz and they jump those routes, in Schaub's case often turning to pick 6s
 
thunderkyss said:
We haven't been able to move the ball in the second half of any game Case has started.

That's no chance at all. I like Case, don't get me wrong. But our chances of winning was better with the guy that could get us across mid-field (heaven knows special teams can't).
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Your bias continues to shine through.

If you don't believe we've had a shot to win these last three games then you haven't been watching.
 
thunderkyss said:
We haven't been able to move the ball in the second half of any game Case has started.

That's no chance at all. I like Case, don't get me wrong. But our chances of winning was better with the guy that could get us across mid-field (heaven knows special teams can't).
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We seem to forget that Case doesn't call the plays. Anyone can see the play calling change from the first half to the second. Case doesn't block the dline and blitzing LBs. Case doesn't play defense or special teams. Case 'tries' not to run the ball :)

Anyone who tries to say that Case is the reason for our 2nd half collapses is not seeing the whole picture.

I would say this ... let Case call his own plays the whole game and we would see more consistency ...
 
Let him run a no-huddle once in a while, too (and not just at the end of the half or the game).

He did it a lot at UH and we know the results.
 
otisbean said:
On a side note, I'm wondering if our hot reads are too predictable in general. I don't watch the all 22 footage but it seems even going to back to Schaub, the opposing teams seem to know where we are going with the ball when they blitz and they jump those routes, in Schaub's case often turning to pick 6s
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See the thing about that is that most teams have their hot-reads set up the same way. In general, you throw to the hole created by the blitzer. Defenses know that and so they'll pull someone off another route OR drop a lineman to fill that hole unexpectedly. And it's up to the QB to figure out which routes are going to get jumped (or blocked because of a dropping lineman) because that means someone else is going to be open.

It's a big chess match and you win some and you lose some but good QBs win more than they lose.
 
eriadoc said:
Some good analysis in there. I notice our resident detractors haven't bothered to comment on it.
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It is good..probably about as unbiased as you're going to get anyway. Either side of the debate could use it to show what they wanted to so why single out his detractors?
 
The Pencil Neck said:
See the thing about that is that most teams have their hot-reads set up the same way. In general, you throw to the hole created by the blitzer. Defenses know that and so they'll pull someone off another route OR drop a lineman to fill that hole unexpectedly. And it's up to the QB to figure out which routes are going to get jumped (or blocked because of a dropping lineman) because that means someone else is going to be open.

It's a big chess match and you win some and you lose some but good QBs win more than they lose.
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I agree on the hot reads, but man, we need a new wrinkle or something because even Case in the last game threw a couple that should have been picked. We also really need the OL and RBs to step up, a lot of big plays occur when Ds blitz and they don't get there, exposing the DBs. Problem with us is they get there too often LOL
 
Is Keenum looking worse and worse as a starting QB?

Is it Kubiak, lack of confidence leading a losing streak, or just a hiccup in what will be a great career?

I think I am starting to go back towards a 1st round QB....
 
Either he's being limited or other teams have film on him now. Either way, Keenum has been very disappointing today

Back decisions, bad pocket presence, bad blitz identification
 
gtexan02 said:
Either he's being limited or other teams have film on him now. Either way, Keenum has been very disappointing today

Back decisions, bad pocket presence, bad blitz identification
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Kubiak told him he has to be more "Schaub-like"
 
He didn't look very good today...but he wasn't the only one. We probably need to draft a QB in rd 1 or 2...but to tell you the truth, we need help at a lot of places.
 
It'd help if he had an offensive line that could block and receivers that could catch.

Not that it matters now anyway.
 
Another poor performance by Case and another loss as a starting QB for Case, I don't think he is our future starting QB.

Perhaps our first pick will be used on a QB.
 
Thorn said:
It'd help if he had an offensive line that could block and receivers that could catch.

Not that it matters now anyway.
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Bu bu bu i thought schaub was the one who needed the perfect team around for him to succeed? Surely case's mobility would be the difference and would offset the leaky o-line.......right?
 
Mr teX said:
Bu bu bu i thought schaub was the one who needed the perfect team around for him to succeed? Surely case's mobility would be the difference and would offset the leaky o-line.......right?
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Both of them struggle with a bad O-line, and for different reasons. No QB will ever look like the best ever with a crappy O-line, but some guys can minimize the impacts of it. Schaub couldn't escape the rush and Keenum often can't handle the blitz or counter it with a check down or a change of the play at the line.

Keenum can escape the rush but he often misfires on the run, and all too often he runs straight backward to extend a play, turning a potential 6 yard loss into a 15 yard loss.
 
The more coaching Case has received, the worse he's played. Kubiak is taking everything that makes Keenum successful away from him. He doesn't want Case to scramble, extend plays, and make off schedule throws. He wants him to stay in the pocket and take what the defense hives them. Like always. Let's all sit back and watch Kubiak mold Keenum into Schaub 2.0
 
RTP2110 said:
The more coaching Case has received, the worse he's played. Kubiak is taking everything that makes Keenum successful away from him. He doesn't want Case to scramble, extend plays, and make off schedule throws. He wants him to stay in the pocket and take what the defense hives them. Like always. Let's all sit back and watch Kubiak mold Keenum into Schaub 2.0
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Just stop. It's nauseating. Case Keenum just isn't that good. No conspiracies are needed.
 
One positive I took out of the game was he did a better job finding check downs and getting the ball out quick. However the Jags hardly blitz so it wasn't really needed
 
RTP2110 said:
The more coaching Case has received, the worse he's played. Kubiak is taking everything that makes Keenum successful away from him. He doesn't want Case to scramble, extend plays, and make off schedule throws. He wants him to stay in the pocket and take what the defense hives them. Like always. Let's all sit back and watch Kubiak mold Keenum into Schaub 2.0
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What? I only watched a little of the first half but what little I saw, Case was doing those exact things and taking sacks for big losses. Quit making excuses, Case sucked today.
 
I never thought Case was for sure the future, but I thought he would have improved by now. Even I have to admit he has looked bad lately. I still can't blame it all on him, Kubes is an idiot and the Oline sucks but still, Case is taking horrible sacks and making worse decisions.
 
RTP2110 said:
The more coaching Case has received, the worse he's played. Kubiak is taking everything that makes Keenum successful away from him. He doesn't want Case to scramble, extend plays, and make off schedule throws. He wants him to stay in the pocket and take what the defense hives them. Like always. Let's all sit back and watch Kubiak mold Keenum into Schaub 2.0
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You sound ridiculous...

For all the dislike i have for kubiak, maybe he knows you cant succeed in this league long term doing that stuff....scrambling around that is.

Maybe he's struggling b/c defenses now have enough film on him & now have a good idea about his tendencies...again no deep balls completed today...

Maybe....just maybe he's just not as good as you hoped...this is his 3rd straight week of regression and we managed a paltry 6 pts today against one of the worst teams in the league.

Im not quite ready to give up on him as being our future qb....but im damn close. He's looking and shaping up to be what i thought he might be at the out set.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Just stop. It's nauseating. Case Keenum just isn't that good. No conspiracies are needed.
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I'm making no excuses for the guy. I'm not a Case/UH guy at all. I'm just calling it like I see it. He is not making the plays that he was in his earlier starts. And all the while Kubiak is molding him into his offense rather than adjusting to suit Case's style. What happened to the Pistol formation with 3 & 4 recievers that worked against KC? There were TE's and Fullbacks all over the place today. It was the same thing as when Schaub was starting. Play deep coverage, stay behind #80 and #10, then just watch the Texans check down all day.
 
jaayteetx said:
That's a little drastic as well, it was one game, lets see what he does the rest of the year.
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Agreed. Also, I mean this season is beyond over and all enthusiasm is gone for most that have a life and other things to do while keeping half an eye on the burning clown turd on Kirby. So at this point, who even cares who the QB is.

I'd frankly like to see OD at QB is he was healthy just for giggles.
Fuq it.
 
RTP2110 said:
I'm making no excuses for the guy. I'm not a Case/UH guy at all. I'm just calling it like I see it. He is not making the plays that he was in his earlier starts. And all the while Kubiak is molding him into his offense rather than adjusting to suit Case's style. What happened to the Pistol formation with 3 & 4 recievers that worked against KC? There were TE's and Fullbacks all over the place today. It was the same thing as when Schaub was starting. Play deep coverage, stay behind #80 and #10, then just watch the Texans check down all day.
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There was no film on him. His plays come from backyard football and just extending stuff. Rarely sticking to the script and managing a drive. It's all or nothing with him and he doesnt seem to grasp the concept of the WCO. He can learn, sure but to say its all Kubiak is being narrow imo.
 
5 games in and case has yet to put together a complete game.

now that d-coordinators have film on him he's getting exposed and looking like a UDFA
 
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