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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

Uncle Rico said:
There was no film on him. His plays come from backyard football and just extending stuff. Rarely sticking to the script and managing a drive. It's all or nothing with him and he doesnt seem to grasp the concept of the WCO. He can learn, sure but to say its all Kubiak is being narrow imo.
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If Keenum has never been a WCO style QB, never showed an ability to run the WCO and the coaching staff will never adapt their gameplan to the skills of their roster, then why even take a guy who can't run the WCO?

If a coach is not flexible in terms of adapting the game plan to the strengths of the players on the roster, then they should not be signing players who don't fit in that rigid scheme.
 
Mr. Texan said:
5 games in and case has yet to put together a complete game.

now that d-coordinators have film on him he's getting exposed and looking like a UDFA
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True. Though I'd also add that the coaching staff's continued inability or unwillngness to adjust to the situation is exacerbating said exposure.
 
ziggy29 said:
True. Though I'd also add that the coaching staff's continued inability or unwillngness to adjust to the situation is exacerbating said exposure.
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I think part of the problem here is that the team has largely given up. It's hard to evaluate Case with the way the coaches are calling the game and pushing him to look like Schaub.

Case probably isn't the answer, but I think we keep him on the roster and let him compete with a draft pick and see what he looks like under a different coaching staff
 
hradhak said:
Case probably isn't the answer, but I think we keep him on the roster and let him compete with a draft pick and see what he looks like under a different coaching staff
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Agreed. At this point, IMO, it's Keenum's season to finish -- there are no better options, really. But at this point I think it's time to unshackle him, let him play HIS game and see what we have. It will better tell us where the QB position needs to be prioritized in the upcoming draft.
 
ziggy29 said:
Agreed. At this point, IMO, it's Keenum's season to finish -- there are no better options, really. But at this point I think it's time to unshackle him, let him play HIS game and see what we have. It will better tell us where the QB position needs to be prioritized in the upcoming draft.
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Standing tall in the pocket and making accurate throws short and long in the face of pressure......

Knowing when to take a shot, when to check it down and when to give up on a play........

Identifying and beating a blitz........

These are all core skills for a qb in the NFL and are essential for success for EVERY qb......no matter the type...they are also things he's struggled with at various times since he's been a starter. So if his "game" doesn't get better at those things, the coaching staff wont matter.
 
hradhak said:
I think part of the problem here is that the team has largely given up. It's hard to evaluate Case with the way the coaches are calling the game and pushing him to look like Schaub.

Case probably isn't the answer, but I think we keep him on the roster and let him compete with a draft pick and see what he looks like under a different coaching staff
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i agree with this post 100%.
 
I'm starting to think that Keenum isn't going to be more than a flash of potential every now and then. 5 more games to go but he's making a lot of the same mistakes over and over again. At some point he either changes that or he settles into the 3-4 year career as a backup that he seems to be headed for.
 
Hervoyel said:
I'm starting to think that Keenum isn't going to be more than a flash of potential every now and then. 5 more games to go but he's making a lot of the same mistakes over and over again. At some point he either changes that or he settles into the 3-4 year career as a backup that he seems to be headed for.
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Yeah that's certainly the way it is looking. It really looked to me like Kubiak made him run a lot of the "Texans" offense instead of the more free wheeling stuff he did a few weeks ago. That said, the free wheeling stuff was getting him into trouble that he couldn't escape.

He has to get better against the blitz and learn to make better reads and not take sacks 20 yards back.

I'm only hoping that he gets looked at by another coaching staff and see if he's salvageable.
 
Look, I've been trying to tell posters on this board about what I've seen up close in camp. If I'm a dc,I'm making him throw breaking routes outside the numbers. I'm lining up my cbs on the inside shoulder of the wrs,bump and run. I'm gonna run some inside pressure because he's small. His instincts tell him to retreat and break contain, but the pressure and lack of arm talent restricts what he can do.
 
leebigeztx said:
Look, I've been trying to tell posters on this board about what I've seen up close in camp. If I'm a dc,I'm making him throw breaking routes outside the numbers. I'm lining up my cbs on the inside shoulder of the wrs,bump and run. I'm gonna run some inside pressure because he's small. His instincts tell him to retreat and break contain, but the pressure and lack of arm talent restricts what he can do.
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And we've been trying to tell you that you're full of ****, because you are. He's failing to do certain things, but it sure as hell isn't because of lack of arm talent.
 
I don't see how a true evaluation of Keenum could be made under the circumstances. He's got no running game, a terrible O-line, a team that has given up, and a pathetic lame duck coaching staff. Honestly he doesn't look good, but he's one of the very few players on the team that hasn't quit.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I don't see how a true evaluation of Keenum could be made under the circumstances. He's got no running game, a terrible O-line, a team that has given up, and a pathetic lame duck coaching staff. Honestly he doesn't look good, but he's one of the very few players on the team that hasn't quit.
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Meh, it's what it is. He's going to have to live with the results of his ten game audition. He may not have gotten that elsewhere at all, so he just has to deal with it. The NFL is a harsh place sometimes.
 
eriadoc said:
Meh, it's what it is. He's going to have to live with the results of his ten game audition. He may not have gotten that elsewhere at all, so he just has to deal with it. The NFL is a harsh place sometimes.
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true. But I think he has played enough to warrant staying the NFL. Maybe not as a starter but as a backup. Under a different coach and scheme he may shine. I'm thinking it's hard to say this guy is worse than some of the 1st round guys out there who clearly suck but are still playing because of where they were drafted.
 
hradhak said:
true. But I think he has played enough to warrant staying the NFL. Maybe not as a starter but as a backup. Under a different coach and scheme he may shine. I'm thinking it's hard to say this guy is worse than some of the 1st round guys out there who clearly suck but are still playing because of where they were drafted.
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He's still under contract. I can see a new regime coming in, cutting Schaub, and then drafting a QB #1. Then you have your #1 pick and Keenum battle it out next year with Yates as your #3.
 
I was hoping he would be the answer with his mobility and TD passes to AJ - but i no longer think he is the sleeper QB solution for us. Can he perform better with better coaching and play calling? Yes. Do I think he'll get that chance here? No. Somewhere else? Not likely. Canada or arena football league? Possibly. NFL 3rd option.
 
Just tuned into Grey Cup. Halftime. Haven't seen QB's but I bet one of them is better than what we have. Would bring in best QB from Grey Cup to compete. Bring in a vet. Sign one hopefully not with 1st choice and may the best man win. Not really impressed with any of the college QB's. No Luck this year. Just my opinion.
 
eriadoc said:
And we've been trying to tell you that you're full of ****, because you are. He's failing to do certain things, but it sure as hell isn't because of lack of arm talent.
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I bet u thought schaub was a good qb. Look,when you can't throw outside breaking routes because of your arm,you're restricted. Now,you can say or call me what you want,but I don't think a coach would omit certain routes if he thought his qb could throw them. When was the last time you've seen a texans qb throw a 15yd comeback,out,or flag? You think those plays don't exist or is the coach too dumb to call those routes?
 
case is the better quarterback, but as i've said several times - he's not ready. schaub was supposed to finish the season because case needed more time to adjust and learn the pro game, and then have an offseason where he could work with the coaches to create the offense. keenum's flashed his ability as well as flaws, but within this perfect storm of clusterfluck we're calling a season, we wont truly know what his potential is.

IMO we can win going forward with case at quarterback, as long as the line is addressed. games like today make it harder for me to comfortably say that though.
 
Scooter said:
case is the better quarterback, but as i've said several times - he's not ready. schaub was supposed to finish the season because case needed more time to adjust and learn the pro game, and then have an offseason where he could work with the coaches to create the offense. keenum's flashed his ability as well as flaws, but within this perfect storm of clusterfluck we're calling a season, we wont truly know what his potential is.

IMO we can win going forward with case at quarterback, as long as the line is addressed. games like today make it harder for me to comfortably say that though.
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Dude couldn't win a game and his 2nd half performances have been aweful. He's a backup spot player. Good money in it, nothing wrong with that.
 
Scooter said:
case is the better quarterback, but as i've said several times - he's not ready. schaub was supposed to finish the season because case needed more time to adjust and learn the pro game, and then have an offseason where he could work with the coaches to create the offense. keenum's flashed his ability as well as flaws, but within this perfect storm of clusterfluck we're calling a season, we wont truly know what his potential is.

IMO we can win going forward with case at quarterback, as long as the line is addressed. games like today make it harder for me to comfortably say that though.
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What a crock.....contrary to what the brigade has been saying in here, he's not a rookie. This is his 2nd year and he's had a year of sitting on the bench holding a clipboard "adjusting" and learning the pro game. He's also had plenty of examples in front of him on how not to do things watching schaub implode this year. He's also in a qb friendly offense. How much more time are u willing to give him to adjust and learn? Many guys that were in his position dont get the chance to have an extended audition like he's getting.

Hell, Geno Smith, EJ Manuel and Mike Glennon are all true rookies dealing with their own set of issues and have all had 1 game at least as good or better than anything he's done.....they've all also led their teams to at least 2 wins too. His last chance to get a win might be the last jax game.. If he cant get it then...

Given how long he's had, He should be ahead of the curve at this point ...instead we've seen him regress and make the same mistakes over and over. So if he's not ready now, its highly likely he's never gonna be.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
I wouldn't get to excited about Smith yet.

He's looked awful the past two games.
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Im not getting excited about him....but his performances thus far should put keenum's in perspective. As bad as he's been, he's had games comparable to keenum's....and led his team to wins on top of that....

But i bet people here dont look at smith the same way as they're probably looking at keenum.
 
Heck, at least the Schaubster could move the ball between the 20's with the best of them. With Keenum it's the long ball (mostly from a broken play) or nothing.

I was hoping he'd show improvement throughout the past few weeks. I don't see it. It didn't take teams long to figure him out. Two deep with pressure shuts this offense down
 
Scooter said:
case is the better quarterback, but as i've said several times - he's not ready. schaub was supposed to finish the season because case needed more time to adjust and learn the pro game, and then have an offseason where he could work with the coaches to create the offense. keenum's flashed his ability as well as flaws, but within this perfect storm of clusterfluck we're calling a season, we wont truly know what his potential is.

IMO we can win going forward with case at quarterback, as long as the line is addressed. games like today make it harder for me to comfortably say that though.
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In my opinion we can win going forward with David Carr, as long as the line is addressed.

I just can't do that again. Look, it might be unfair to Keenum but it will be a cold day in hell before I give a guy more than 10 games to show me something and Case is halfway there and going in the wrong direction. We wasted 5 years on Carr making excuses for why he wasn't successful and that's a bad plan. We should all understand that by now.

10 games, that's what he gets and nobody has time to sit back and wait for the light bulb to come on. Careers are too short for that crap. Yes the team is in many areas mailing it in. Yes Key**** Martin handed a potential comeback to the Jaguars yesterday. There have been extenuating circumstances and anyone can see that. There are always extenuating circumstances in this league. If he was the guy he'd elevate the guys around him. If he was the guy and had "it" then those linemen would bust their asses to hold off the pass rush for him. They aren't doing that.

Look at it like this, the players like Gary. There's not a doubt in my mind that they almost to a man like him. They're his friends and they'd probably loan him some money if he had no presents for his kids at Christmas. They can't be bothered to focus on their jobs and play for him though. That's a sign that he's lost the team. I'm sure they mostly like him but they don't believe in him. Nobody will run through a wall for Gary just like nobody can be bothered to block for Keenum, catch for Keenum, or in any way elevate their game to get the Texans in the win column. Case hasn't lost the team, he just never had them. They're his friends. They aren't his guys.

If he doesn't pull off some amazing miracle business against the rest of the schedule (assuming he even gets to keep playing after yesterday's stink) then he's done. All I said at the start was that he gets a chance. What he does with it is up to him. Right now he's talking the Texans into drafting a QB in the first round.
 
I agree with Herv. As long as Keenum gets an honest shot at this, I'm good with it. I do think however, Keenum would be playing better if he didn't have a bunch of girls blocking for him.

But whatever. This team should be burnt to the ground anyway. What few gems there are on it will survive the fire.
 
Hervoyel said:
10 games, that's what he gets and nobody has time to sit back and wait for the light bulb to come on. Careers are too short for that crap.

...

All I said at the start was that he gets a chance. What he does with it is up to him.
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This. I hesitate about the first round QB, but not because of Keenum. I just don't buy into the talent coming out as first round material.
 
Hervoyel said:
I'm starting to think that Keenum isn't going to be more than a flash of potential every now and then. 5 more games to go but he's making a lot of the same mistakes over and over again. At some point he either changes that or he settles into the 3-4 year career as a backup that he seems to be headed for.
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Two words, one name, and you'll know what I'm talking about: Bucky Richardson

Different styles of QBs, but same old Houston story:

Incumbent backup Cody Carlson began the 1994 season under center, but when he separated his shoulder in the season openener, Richardson became the starting quarterback. He is fondly remembered by Houston fans for a play during a preseason exhibition game against the Dallas Cowboys. Late in the game and down by one score, Richardson led the Oilers within striking distance. The drive culminated with a play during which he, a righthander, completed the winning touchdown pass with his left arm.

Unfortunately, the regular season would not be as memorable. Richardson was the starter for nearly half of the season and he split time with Carlson and Billy Joe Tolliver, none of the three being particularly effective as the Oilers stumbled their way to a league-worst 2-14 record.
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Yep, as long as keenum gets his shot I'm good. I think he has the most talent on the roster ATM.

But, that being said, I'm looking forward to him competing to back up bridgewater.
 
Double Barrel said:
Two words, one name, and you'll know what I'm talking about: Bucky Richardson

Different styles of QBs, but same old Houston story:
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Oh yes. Hard not to remember that one. 2-14 seems to be the "Bat Signal" proclaiming that things are changing in Houston where football is concerned.

We're going to be 2-14 this year too. Can't you just feel it?

"Do you hear that Mr. Kubiak? That is the sound of inevitability"

HearThatMrKubiak_zps8353eac2.jpg


and yes, that's his flat top
 
Roethislberger (?) have had perpetually awful lines, Stafford too, yet they find ways to win and make plays. Great QBs make their lines better too.

I'm not sold on Keenum being anything more than above average tops. If we can draft someone better in what us hopefully our one shot for the next decade, DO IT!!!
 
Hervoyel said:
Oh yes. Hard not to remember that one. 2-14 seems to be the "Bat Signal" proclaiming that things are changing in Houston where football is concerned.

We're going to be 2-14 this year too. Can't you just feel it?

"Do you hear that Mr. Kubiak? That is the sound of inevitability"

HearThatMrKubiak_zps8353eac2.jpg


and yes, that's his flat top
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I'm not sure that's the comparison you want to make since in that movie "Mr. Kubiak" triumphs over what seems to be inevitable.

That would probably make a lot of people on this board very mad and I will laugh at that madness.
 
2012Champs said:
Case has not improved over the series of his starts and his first two games certainly look abnormal for him now.
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he has game film on him now. Teams take away his long ball and force him to throw underneath. Teams now rush him as if he were a dynamic running qb (edge rushers keeping him inside the pocket instead of a more uncontrolled rush) Most of his 'big plays' early on were when the pocket broke down and he bought a few more seconds.
 
eriadoc said:
This. I hesitate about the first round QB, but not because of Keenum. I just don't buy into the talent coming out as first round material.
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It is hard not to like Bridgewater. If he is available, he sure seems like a good risk. Other than a slight build, easily addressed in the nfl and with age, I don't see many holes in his game.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Roethislberger (?) have had perpetually awful lines, Stafford too, yet they find ways to win and make plays. Great QBs make their lines better too.
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Thats total BS. Any rookie QB would have been destroyed playing behind such a crap OL. Big Ben is a compete anomaly.
 
dalemurphy said:
It is hard not to like Bridgewater. If he is available, he sure seems like a good risk. Other than a slight build, easily addressed in the nfl and with age, I don't see many holes in his game.
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Thank you! He's the same size as rodger coming out. Rodgers is not some big strapping guy either.
 
leebigeztx said:
Thank you! He's the same size as rodger coming out. Rodgers is not some big strapping guy either.
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Rodgers was 6'2" 223 lbs coming out. SI.com

Bridgewater is listed several places as 6'3" 196 lbs. Even assuming he is up to 205 lbs he is not the same thickness as Rodgers. For that he would need to be in the 226 lb range.
 
dalemurphy said:
It is hard not to like Bridgewater. If he is available, he sure seems like a good risk. Other than a slight build, easily addressed in the nfl and with age, I don't see many holes in his game.
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Bridgewater reportedly has a low release point (remember David Carr) and there are concerns about his hand size. I haven't spent any time on next years draft prospects, but these two concerns I found with just a few minutes on the net.
 
Last edited:
Keenum will start against the Patriots.

“He’s drifting a little bit in the pocket, which is something we’ve got to go fix,” Kubiak said. “That’s something that he has confidence to do because of the way he did in college. You can’t do that in this league because the edges get real short. That’s part of his growth process, but he’s a confident kid."
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Link.

Keenum's going to have to continue to step far outside his comfort zone if he's going to continue to grow. That's a lot to ask. He will be expected to develop poise in a pocket that hardly exists.

The fact that Schaub is not starting may indicate that the FO intends to dedicate the rest of this season to developing Keenum. Doing so would be beneficial. At best, it would prevent the FO from spending a first round pick on a QB. At worst, we have a more experienced backup on the roster who pushes the new QB.

Here's Keenum's self-assessment after this game:

"I am very disappointed in myself . . . not only for me, but for letting everyone down in that locker room. You can turn on the film and I’m going to go watch it, but we had guys open. We had the right play calls. And I didn’t hit them. I didn’t see them. I didn’t make the plays.

...

"I was a little hesitant on certain plays," Keenum says after finishing 18 of 34 for 169 yards and leading the Texans to only 11 first down. "For whatever reason, I was out of my rhythm. I just had bad fundamentals and I wasn’t trusting what I was seeing and just letting the ball go."
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Link.

Apparently, the plays were there, but Keenum was too inexperienced to trust the throw. This is the rocky transitional phase that new NFL quarterbacks go through. Kubiak basically says the same thing.

To draw any final judgements on Keenum week to week is premature either way. He's developing, and the learning process might get ugly (especially behind this line). If he can't adapt outside of his comfort zone, then fine, we are well positioned for options in the draft. But some criticisms here make no sense. I've never heard someone say that a quarterback is only accurate at 40 to 55 yards, but is incapable of accuracy on short to intermediate throws. Besides, we've seen contrary evidence, and the errant throws are mental mistakes, not physical limitations.
 
The UH Cougars, not exactly a defensive powerhouse, made Bridgewater look quite average when they played at Louisville a few weeks ago.

I would hold off on ordering his bust for Canton.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
The UH Cougars, not exactly a defensive powerhouse, made Bridgewater look quite average when they played at Louisville a few weeks ago.

I would hold off on ordering his bust for Canton.
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I agree, but not sure what that has to do with the Case Keenum thread.
 
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