All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

[Tolar's Ghost]

Bridgewater's name was brought up earlier (in this thread).

As for Keenum, I don't think a fair and proper assessment of his NFL potential can be made under this regime - and in the midst of the current Texans mess.

I think it's clear that Kubiak doesn't know how to use him. At UH he ran a fast-paced offense and was blessed with a bevy of receivers, and at least two effective RBs.

That bears little resemblance to what he's doing, and has, now.

 

[Brisco_County]

I think this is directly attributable to being pulled the week before.

I think it has more to do with the emphasis Kubiak puts on avoiding turnovers. Not a criticism, but it will make young quarterbacks hesitate.

I feel like Keenum's first four games were just experimentation and touchdown dances, and his real NFL development finally began on Sunday.

 

[leebigeztx]

Maybe some of you need to look at the all 22. Defenses are soft rushing him,much like vick,pressing the wrs to outside. He can't see it in the pocket.

 

[Scooter]

part of keenum's problem is inexperience (obviously). the confidence he spoke about comes with practice and repetition, trusting that he's done it before. throwing to an open receiver is easy, throwing a receiver open is something else entirely. two plays stand out to me. in one hopkins is running a curl route and expects the ball outside, but keenum throws it inside. another andre runs a deep in and sits in the zone, while keenum expected him to continue the route. a lot of the problems of not being on the same page and a lack of repetitions comes in the offseason, not week 8.

i also had a lot of issues with the playcalling. we started the game spread out, but finally got under center like i'd been hoping for and started running the ball effectively. maybe it's just me but it seems like common sense to start the game trying to establish the run and then work from there. the other half of that is supposed to be play action but we didnt use it. keenum either took a 7+ step drop or we put him in shotgun. the entire goal of getting keenum under center was to protect him with the run game and give him play action opportunities to move around and make the big plays he's so good at. we're NOT a spread team. we dont have the speed outside, nor the pass blockers to play a spread offense.

 

[Vinny]

Rodgers was 6'2" 223 lbs coming out. SI.com

Bridgewater is listed several places as 6'3" 196 lbs. Even assuming he is up to 205 lbs he is not the same thickness as Rodgers. For that he would need to be in the 226 lb range.

and that extra size has a lot to do with durability in the NFL. Last night I cringed every time RG3 was driven into the ground. RG3 is close to 220, but he has 20 pounds on Bridgewater. Hell, DeAndre Hopkins is roughly 20 pounds heavier than him as well.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Keenum will start against the Patriots.



Link.

Keenum's going to have to continue to step far outside his comfort zone if he's going to continue to grow. That's a lot to ask. He will be expected to develop poise in a pocket that hardly exists.

The fact that Schaub is not starting may indicate that the FO intends to dedicate the rest of this season to developing Keenum. Doing so would be beneficial. At best, it would prevent the FO from spending a first round pick on a QB. At worst, we have a more experienced backup on the roster who pushes the new QB.

Here's Keenum's self-assessment after this game:



Link.

Apparently, the plays were there, but Keenum was too inexperienced to trust the throw. This is the rocky transitional phase that new NFL quarterbacks go through. Kubiak basically says the same thing.

To draw any final judgements on Keenum week to week is premature either way. He's developing, and the learning process might get ugly (especially behind this line). If he can't adapt outside of his comfort zone, then fine, we are well positioned for options in the draft. But some criticisms here make no sense. I've never heard someone say that a quarterback is only accurate at 40 to 55 yards, but is incapable of accuracy on short to intermediate throws. Besides, we've seen contrary evidence, and the errant throws are mental mistakes, not physical limitations.

Great post! Funny how so many were so patient with Schaub for so long. And with Keenum, especially playing with such an incompetently playing OL, patience is out the door.

 

[Hervoyel]

Great post! Funny how so many were so patient with Schaub for so long. And with Keenum, especially playing with such an incompetently playing OL, patience is out the door.

As I pointed out above we have a history of giving a rookie QB too long and too much of the benefit of the doubt. It makes a lot of us (myself included) reluctant to wait too long to see if Case is the guy. We need to see that light bulb come on before the end of the season and yeah, I'm getting worried it might not happen. It certainly doesn't look good but I'm going to tune in every week hoping to see it.

At least until we're out of time and then I'm sorry, there's a draft to think about.

 

[Hervoyel]

and that extra size has a lot to do with durability in the NFL. Last night I cringed every time RG3 was driven into the ground. RG3 is close to 220, but he has 20 pounds on Bridgewater. Hell, DeAndre Hopkins is roughly 20 pounds heavier than him as well.

Don't want Bridgewater. Can't figure out why but to me he doesn't look like the guy. Of course Vince did look like the guy to me so what do I know?

Mettenberger looks like the guy to me now. Not perfect but seemingly still getting better every year.

 

[htownfan32]

Don't want Bridgewater. Can't figure out why but to me he doesn't look like the guy. Of course Vince did look like the guy to me so what do I know?

Mettenberger looks like the guy to me now. Not perfect but seemingly still getting better every year.

Maybe, but man. He wears #8.

So did Kubes, once upon a time. So did Carr. So did Schaub. We need to burn that number lol

 

[2012Champs]

Great post! Funny how so many were so patient with Schaub for so long. And with Keenum, especially playing with such an incompetently playing OL, patience is out the door.

Its funny that the OL performance hasnt fallen off the face of the earth since Case has started. Also of note a number of the Case crew thought it was the second coming of jesus in the first couple of games because he threw some long balls. Case is lucky to have gotten his chance to start and hasnt made the best of it.

 

[Mr teX]

Don't want Bridgewater. Can't figure out why but to me he doesn't look like the guy. Of course Vince did look like the guy to me so what do I know?
Mettenberger looks like the guy to me now. Not perfect but seemingly still getting better every year.

never ever admit that in public or a public forum again.....& i like Mettenberger too, but like Htownfan said, he wears #8...& i can't get over the fact that that number has been a curse to this franchise either.

 

[Hervoyel]

never ever admit that in public or a public forum again.....& i like Mettenberger too, but like Htownfan said, he wears #8...& i can't get over the fact that that number has been a curse to this franchise either.

I'm not ashamed of it. I didn't want to draft him and it's easy enough to look up and verify. I wanted Reggie Bush at the time and was originally hoping that Vince would stay at UT one more year and grow up some more.

I thought he was the real thing though. At the college level he was.

The number thing is stupid though guys. The number your QB wears doesn't mean ****.

 

[dalemurphy]

Great post! Funny how so many were so patient with Schaub for so long. And with Keenum, especially playing with such an incompetently playing OL, patience is out the door.

Patient with Schaub? Schaub was never the starter for a 2-9 team until this year... Not much patience for him this year. In 2010, Schaub put up great numbers, as did the offense, so most of the angst was directed at the defense. That is reversed this year. In case you haven't noticed, fans have little patience for losing.

I think almost everyone likes Keenum. However, there is a reason why he went undrafted. His lack of size is an obstacle that few QBs have overcome in the NFL. Through his five games, it seems clear that it is a problem for him. With a lot of QBs coming out in the draft and a high pick this year, why wouldn't fans want the Texans to (at least) hedge their bets, rather than trusting an unproven and physically limited QB?

 

[CretorFrigg]

I think almost everyone likes Keenum. However, there is a reason why he went undrafted. His lack of size is an obstacle that few QBs have overcome in the NFL. Through his five games, it seems clear that it is a problem for him. With a lot of QBs coming out in the draft and a high pick this year, why wouldn't fans want the Texans to (at least) hedge their bets, rather than trusting an unproven and physically limited QB?

Short? Then why can QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson overcome their lack of height and play at an extremely high level? They're both shorter than Keenum. Hell, Russell Wilson was just a shade over 5'10" at the combine. I don't buy into that. It's all about finding the passing lanes. It doesn't matter if you're a 6'5" QB or 5'11", if you try to throw over JJ Watt, it's not going to happen.

 

[dalemurphy]

Short? Then why can QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson overcome their lack of height and play at an extremely high level? They're both shorter than Keenum. Hell, Russell Wilson was just a shade over 5'10" at the combine. I don't buy into that. It's all about finding the passing lanes. It doesn't matter if you're a 6'5" QB or 5'11", if you try to throw over JJ Watt, it's not going to happen.

You just named the two exceptions. For the record, it is much harder to find passing lanes the shorter you are... Particularly sight lines. Can it be overcome? Sure. Is it likely? No.

 

[leebigeztx]

Short? Then why can QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson overcome their lack of height and play at an extremely high level? They're both shorter than Keenum. Hell, Russell Wilson was just a shade over 5'10" at the combine. I don't buy into that. It's all about finding the passing lanes. It doesn't matter if you're a 6'5" QB or 5'11", if you try to throw over JJ Watt, it's not going to happen.

Drew brees is one of the best athletes inside the pocket. In fact,he has the quickest setup of any qb in the league. Wilson has a power arm and read defenses over the biggest defense in cfb. People said he would've ben a 1st rd qb if he was 6'2. Even then, brees was the 1st player in 2nd rd and the seahawks moved up to get wilson. Case Keenum went undraft!

 

[HOU-TEX]

Here are a few snapshots of All-22 of the jags game from PDS's Twitter feed.

I think Keenum's thinking way too much. He feels pressure when there is none. He also refuses to check down to a wide open receiver.

Poor ball to AJ

AJ coming open, ball should've already been thrown, imo

AJ open, Case makes a poor throw.

Cont.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Forces one to AJ with Griffin wide open up the seam

2 running wide open, Case waits too long, forces a bad ball to AJ

Blocking from play above. Couldn't be much better

Nice pocket, 3 open with Hopkins wide open down the sideline. Doesn't look at him

Another bad ball to Hopkins

 

[2012Champs]

Short? Then why can QBs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson overcome their lack of height and play at an extremely high level? They're both shorter than Keenum. Hell, Russell Wilson was just a shade over 5'10" at the combine. I don't buy into that. It's all about finding the passing lanes. It doesn't matter if you're a 6'5" QB or 5'11", if you try to throw over JJ Watt, it's not going to happen.

certainly a 6 inch height advantage is well an advantage

 

[Uncle Rico]

WCO must have a QB who is extremely accurate in the intermediate passing game. Asked to throw into spots blindly and often before a receiver breaks. Not things Keenum is very good at currently.

 

[Hervoyel]

I think all of this stuff you're showing us HOU-TEX amounts to Case's head being full of what's in front of him. The game "has him" and he is indeed thinking too much. In his first couple of weeks nobody had film on him and he was just playing ball. Running around making it up as he went and letting it fly to open guys and that was great. Now he's being hit with a lot more and he's not catching everything coming at him. It's too fast and it hasn't slowed down for him. If anything it's sped up.

It either slows down for him or it doesn't. 5 more weeks to put it all together ...or not.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I think all of this stuff you're showing us HOU-TEX amounts to Case's head being full of what's in front of him. The game "has him" and he is indeed thinking too much. In his first couple of weeks nobody had film on him and he was just playing ball. Running around making it up as he went and letting it fly to open guys and that was great. Now he's being hit with a lot more and he's not catching everything coming at him. It's too fast and it hasn't slowed down for him. If anything it's sped up.

It either slows down for him or it doesn't. 5 more weeks to put it all together ...or not.

I agree. Seth Payne said the same thing after he watched the All-22. Thinking way too much and trying not to make mistakes.

I was just hoping I'd start to see improvement the past couple games and I don't see it. Maybe we will in the next few weeks, but the Pats rolling in this week doesn't give me that warm & fuzzy feeling

 

[Mr teX]

I agree. Seth Payne said the same thing after he watched the All-22. Thinking way too much and trying not to make mistakes.

I was just hoping I'd start to see improvement the past couple games and I don't see it. Maybe we will in the next few weeks, but the Pats rolling in this week doesn't give me that warm & fuzzy feeling

The bolded moreso than anything. Remember, this guy had a front row seat to the pick 6 fest that Matty put on this year. He knows that that is ultimately what got Schaub benched. Apart from that, it's normal for young qbs to hold on to the ball too long.

It's one of the reasons why I have always hated coaches saying "see the throw before you make the throw"...Largely b/c by the time you see the window to make the throw, it's already gone. You've got to anticipate & trust more than anything. Case doesn't seem to be anticipating the throws very well.

 

[JCTexan]

2 running wide open, Case waits too long, forces a bad ball to AJ

Blocking from play above. Couldn't be much better

Andre was wide open on that play. It wasn't a good throw but it still should have been caught. Keenum has already said he didn't trust his reads against Jacksonville, but I don't think this is evidence of it since AJ is the right option here.

 

[bah007]

Biggest thing for me is that Keenum is consistently making the same mistakes over and over.

I expect mistakes. But when they occur, learn from them and get better. Doing the same things again and again shows me that he does not even recognize the things that he is doing wrong.

That could very well be due to experience, but it's getting worse not better.

 

[Double Barrel]

I agree. Seth Payne said the same thing after he watched the All-22. Thinking way too much and trying not to make mistakes.

I was just hoping I'd start to see improvement the past couple games and I don't see it. Maybe we will in the next few weeks, but the Pats rolling in this week doesn't give me that warm & fuzzy feeling

Thanks for posting stills from the All-22. It confirms what I thought I was seeing while watching the game on tv. We do not get the benefit of seeing the entire field, so there is always doubt...until you post the All-22.

I like Case and like his story. But none of that means anything in the NFL.

I'm not seeing him take a three step drop and fire the ball off. This is crucial in any form of WCO. His hesitation when he drops back is losing the whole point of running timing patterns. He's giving too much time to the defense to get pressure on him, and now that they know his tendencies, the big plays of the first couple of starts are disappearing.

I'd like to think that he is capable of making those reads and doing the three step strikes, but until we consistently see it, we do not know for sure.

I watch a lot of NFL, like most here, and what I've really been focused on the past few weeks is the QB during pressure. While we are talking today's HoF QBs, you see guys like Brees, Brady, Manning, beat pressure up the middle with the quick strike as soon as their third step is set. It's automatic and makes a defense back off. Until Case can do this, they will continue to abuse him out there.

I think Case has earned a spot to the 2014 training camp, but if I'm the Texans FO, I'm looking for a QB in the draft.

 

[EVOLVIST]

I'm not seeing him take a three step drop and fire the ball off. This is crucial in any form of WCO. His hesitation when he drops back is losing the whole point of running timing patterns. He's giving too much time to the defense to get pressure on him, and now that they know his tendencies, the big plays of the first couple of starts are disappearing.

Except the play call dictates the drop and we're only seeing play calls for seven steps...not even five step drops, which in turn means longer route development.

This means either a distrust in Keenum or a distrust in the Oline...or neither of these. It could be all experimentation. After his 1st start I wanted to see Keenum under center a bit more, e.g. Newton and Brees, i.e. a healthy mix of under center and in the gun, but now it's been a bit much under center, and that just isn't Keenum's game. Turning the kid into Schaub just isn't going to work.

 

[stingray]

Not saying that Keenum will be the next Drew Brees, but just to keep things in perspective, Drew Brees was awful in his first couple of years. He threw 29 td's and 31 int's in his first three seasons with a QB rating around 72. Not saying that we shouldn't draft a qb but Keenum might still be a diamond in the rough, just might take some time.

 

[Scooter]

AJ open, Case makes a poor throw.

Andre was wide open on that play. It wasn't a good throw but it still should have been caught. Keenum has already said he didn't trust his reads against Jacksonville, but I don't think this is evidence of it since AJ is the right option here.

this is one of those where they're just not on the same page. andre actually slowed and wanted to sit in that zone coming out of his break and that's the pass schaub would usually throw, but keenum threw a lead pass instead as it's drawn up to be. plays like this are why i think keenum needs an offseason as #1 as much or more than gametime experience. it takes time to see the same things and that's hard to adjust to on a game by game basis.

 

[Tolar's Ghost]

...just to keep things in perspective, Drew Brees was awful in his first couple of years...

Good example. And here's another one: Steve Young.

His first four years as a pro (including two in the USFL) gave no indication that he would end up in the HOF:

http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=4312

 

[76Texan]

Look at what Manning did in first year.
He threw more picks than TDs.
In his first five games, his TD/INT ratio was 4/12.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/

Brees might have led the Chargers to an 8-8 record in his second year, but his first five games were pale compared to Keenum's.
And he lost 7 of the last 9 games, including four consecutively to end the season.
Did he regress?

Not only that, he went 2-9 in his third year.
In the two wins, he threw for a whopping 171 yards total with 1 TD and 1 INT.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00/gamelog/

Did he regress even further?

How about John Elway?
Look it up for yourself.
He was 1 of 8 in his first start, with an INT and 14 yards on that lone completion.
They let him attempt just 83 passes in his first 5 starts.
His TD/INT ratio was 1/5 in those games and 7/14 for the year.
He ended the season by going 13-34 for 143 yards, no TD, and 4 INTs.
He had 3 games with Negative Air Yard per Attempt; ie., he must have thrown a lot of screen passes to RBs behind the LOS.
In that last game, he completed 7 passes to the RBs, 4 to the TEs, and just 2 to the receivers.

 

[76Texan]

this is one of those where they're just not on the same page. andre actually slowed and wanted to sit in that zone coming out of his break and that's the pass schaub would usually throw, but keenum threw a lead pass instead as it's drawn up to be. plays like this are why i think keenum needs an offseason as #1 as much or more than gametime experience. it takes time to see the same things and that's hard to adjust to on a game by game basis.

The incompletion to Hopkins was also a miscommunication.
Keenum threw that ball to a spot, before Hopkins made the break.
He was expecting Hopkins to curl in, as the CB reacted very aggressively toward the side line.

I don't like how Hopkins run the fade route in the end zone either.
Also, on passes near the side line like that, I do not expect a receiver to open up his legs on the jump. Either it was a rookie mistake or, I don't know what to say.

 

[76Texan]

Troy Aikman was horrible his first year.
He had a 9/18 TD/INt ratio, and 3.8 AYA.
He "improved" slightly to 11/18 and 5 AYA in his second year.

Terry Bradshaw was even worse, logging in at 6/24 and a ridiculously low 2.1. AYA.
His completion percentage was 38.1%

 

[stingray]

Troy Aikman was horrible his first year.
He had a 9/18 TD/INt ratio, and 3.8 AYA.
He "improved" slightly to 11/18 and 5 AYA in his second year.

Terry Bradshaw was even worse, logging in at 6/24 and a ridiculously low 2.1. AYA.
His completion percentage was 38.1%

I think everyone was hoping that keenum would have a fairy tale entrance like brady or kurt warner. Thats unfair and unrealistic to expect that kind of start.

 

[76Texan]

Dan Fouts went 0-5-1 his first year.
His stat lines read 6/13 TD/INT, 3.4 AYA, and 44.8% in completion percentage.

Bib Griese lost his first 5 starts, throwing for 2 TDs and 6 INTs
For the season, his numbers were 15/18, 4.5 AYA, and 50.2%

In his last game (a loss to the Oilers), Griese was 16 of 41 (39%), 208 yards (0.7 AYA), 1 TD and 5 INTs.

In comparison, Keenum's current numbers are:
8/2, 7.69 AYA, and 55%.

 

[76Texan]

I think everyone was hoping that keenum would have a fairy tale entrance like brady or kurt warner. Thats unfair and unrealistic to expect that kind of start.

Frustration, I imagine.

 

[76Texan]

Look up Steve Grogan, and Eli Manning.

Eli lost his first 6 starts, with a 2/8 TD/INT ratio.
His numbers for the first 4 starts:
17/37 for 162 yards. 1 Td, 2 INTs
6/21 for 142, zero TD, 2 INts
12/25 for 113 yards, zero Td
4/18 for 27 yards, zero Td, 2 INTs.
His only win was the last game of the season, against a Cowboys team that went nowhere.

I mean, need I go on?

 

[Rey]

I would not rule out case becoming a successful starter, but what I've said all along was that he'd have to come out and be special in order for me to feel comfortable with him as a starter going forward. No doubt he hasn't played as bad as some are making it seem, but he hasn't done enough at this point to lay claim to the starting spot. Case had a huge uphill battle to get to that point and so far he just hasn't done it. It sucks, it may not be fair to him, he may just need good coaching and time to develop.....but the texans can't afford to bank on that maybe being the case. He simply hasn't shown enough to propel himself to that level. He has a few more games to maybe cause done doubt...but dude is going to have to be almost holy like. Even then, I still am not sure is trust it.

 

[rmartin65]

Apparently every QB that starts off poorly is bound for the HoF. Thanks, guys. I feel a lot better.

 

[stingray]

Apparently every QB that starts off poorly is bound for the HoF. Thanks, guys. I feel a lot better.

Nobody said that. What we are saying is that not every great QB has a great start.

 

[stingray]

I would not rule out case becoming a successful starter, but what I've said all along was that he'd have to come out and be special in order for me to feel comfortable with him as a starter going forward. No doubt he hasn't played as bad as some are making it seem, but he hasn't done enough at this point to lay claim to the starting spot. Case had a huge uphill battle to get to that point and so far he just hasn't done it. It sucks, it may not be fair to him, he may just need good coaching and time to develop.....but the texans can't afford to bank on that maybe being the case. He simply hasn't shown enough to propel himself to that level. He has a few more games to maybe cause done doubt...but dude is going to have to be almost holy like. Even then, I still am not sure is trust it.

Agreed 100%. We have to draft a Qb early. And even if we do draft a Bridgewater, Mariotta or Manziel, they are not guranteed to be the "one". They too could burn out quickly and Keenum could be the insurance policy if he does turn out to be a good one if given time.

 

[76Texan]

Here are some more names just for the heck of it.
Check out their first five starts.

McNabb, Palmer, Stabler, Staubach (who came in the league at a ripe 27), Tarkenton, Testaverde (13/35 TD/INT in his second year), Bradford, Harbaugh, Leftwich, etc.

Even Moon, who was 28 when he entered the NFL, had some ho-hum numbers his first few years.

And Pastorini was just as pathetic as the Oilers were his first three years.

 

[Vance87]

Let's not forget that just because Keenum may not do well in his first half-season does that mean that he won't get any more chances to be a starter. Even if he turns it around before the season is over we will still draft a QB early. Then there's training camp and the pre season. If he outperforms the rookie do you think they'd start him? It's not as if starting Keenum would do the team any detriment because it'd only be his second starting season. I'd think the QB position would be wide open come 2014.

 

[infantrycak]

Here are some more names just for the heck of it.
Check out their first five starts.

Staubach (who came in the league at a ripe 27).

Staubach is too unique to compare. His ripe old age was because he was off with the Navy. He and Morton split games and then even split duties play by play until the team got Bob Lilly to go to Landry to tell him to pick one. Both Morton and Staubach are given credit for starting some of the same games during this time period.

Staubach was named full time starter in week 8 of 1971. The Cowboys won all their remaining games including Staubach winning SB MVP.

Like I said, not really analogous to anyone else's situation, but for your 5 game stretch that would be 5-0, 6 TDs, 0 INTs, 63 comp., 109 att., 58%, 870 yds, 7.98 ypa, 9.08 aypa and 101.8 QB rating.

 

[Vinny]

Dan Fouts went 0-5-1 his first year.
His stat lines read 6/13 TD/INT, 3.4 AYA, and 44.8% in completion percentage.

Bib Griese lost his first 5 starts, throwing for 2 TDs and 6 INTs
For the season, his numbers were 15/18, 4.5 AYA, and 50.2%

In his last game (a loss to the Oilers), Griese was 16 of 41 (39%), 208 yards (0.7 AYA), 1 TD and 5 INTs.

In comparison, Keenum's current numbers are:
8/2, 7.69 AYA, and 55%.

you can't compare different eras with different rules. You could manhandle wr's all over the field back then....maime qb's, head slap....no way eras are comparable so stuff like this is ridiculous. Bob Griesie won a SB and threw 6 passes - teams were designed differently.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Let's not forget that just because Keenum may not do well in his first half-season does that mean that he won't get any more chances to be a starter. Even if he turns it around before the season is over we will still draft a QB early. Then there's training camp and the pre season. If he outperforms the rookie do you think they'd start him? It's not as if starting Keenum would do the team any detriment because it'd only be his second starting season. I'd think the QB position would be wide open come 2014.

We've got too many other needs before we look to develop a high draft QB. If we don't draft high for OL/DL (especially a mobile "fat boy in the middle".........and don't give me the Wade line), it won't matter who is under center.

 

[stingray]

We've got too many other needs before we look to develop a high draft QB. If we don't draft high for OL/DL (especially a mobile "fat boy in the middle".........and don't give me the Wade line), it won't matter who is under center.

In the modern day of the NFL..the QB is by.... farrrrr...the most important position on the team. If you have an elite/franchise qb, the rest is much easier to fill. I guarantee you that the colts are a 6-10 team without luck.

 

[Hervoyel]

Dan Fouts went 0-5-1 his first year.
His stat lines read 6/13 TD/INT, 3.4 AYA, and 44.8% in completion percentage.

Bib Griese lost his first 5 starts, throwing for 2 TDs and 6 INTs
For the season, his numbers were 15/18, 4.5 AYA, and 50.2%

In his last game (a loss to the Oilers), Griese was 16 of 41 (39%), 208 yards (0.7 AYA), 1 TD and 5 INTs.

In comparison, Keenum's current numbers are:
8/2, 7.69 AYA, and 55%.

I bet his brother Bob teased him mercilessly about that.

 

[leebigeztx]

Troy Aikman was horrible his first year.
He had a 9/18 TD/INt ratio, and 3.8 AYA.
He "improved" slightly to 11/18 and 5 AYA in his second year.

Terry Bradshaw was even worse, logging in at 6/24 and a ridiculously low 2.1. AYA.
His completion percentage was 38.1%

The flaw in your logic always is the aples to oranges. Aikman,bradshaw,eli and others went to terrible talent teams. There is a reason aikman went #1 as did bradshaw and eli. Their teams were sorry enough to win 1 or 2 games. Keenum took over a team offensively that still has a top flight wr and a couple of probowl linemen. Even defensively,he hasn't had to score 30 pts to win.

Truth is,he's a limited,undrafted qb who has been exposed. I don't wanna hear how clutch he was at u of h or how he picked the blitz apart. This isn't college and we're not playing So Miss or SMU. He had a chance,one of the few chances a udfa get,and he blew it. If brady sucked like case, bledsoe would've gotten his job back. Brady played well enough and we know the story.

 

[amazing80]

In the modern day of the NFL..the QB is by.... farrrrr...the most important position on the team. If you have an elite/franchise qb, the rest is much easier to fill. I guarantee you that the colts are a 6-10 team without luck.

yea and when your qb gets hurt you look like the packers....