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2023 Davis Mills vs Bryce Young

Which option and why

  • 1 or 2 or 3

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Why

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Total voters
    4
leebigeztx said:
Why people act like Robert Gallery, Luke Jockel,and Erick Fisher didn't happen. So its ok to miss on a trench guy, but not a qb? What's the difference? A miss is a miss. If you miss on any position, it doesn't matter and its been just as many missed trench players as it has been qb's. With the new salary cap rules, it doesn't hold your franchise back 8 yrs, its more like 3 or 4, see Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold.
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I absolutely detest a team missing on any of their picks. Texans could write the book on how to waste an entire draft worth of picks. I believe the majority of the CFB players who excelled enough to find themselves getting the opportunity to wear an NFL uniform obviously have the talent. GM, HC, and Scouting Director have to be on the same page with their offensive and defensive systems. They also have to study enough film to determine who fits their schemes regardless of the round they're available in....hence the concept of round peg and round hole.

On a side note, I always viewed the Texans as an organization that just couldn't wrap their brains around the fact that they HAD to work together instead of being a faction with their own agenda. This unfortunately points directly to the McNair's as poor owners who chose to meddle or micro-manage a business they had no idea on how to run. Had they stayed out of the way and handed the reins to a competent GM to dot he hiring and run things.....Texans history may not have been as bleak as the history we fans have had to endure.

As for the now...I believe Cal has finally made the break and possibly come to his senses that he's never really ran a football organization, nor does he have the inclination to do the job. Caserio is an astute football person who obviously wants to be at the helm when this Texans ship finally gets back on course. I believe the more Cal has interacted with Caserio and watched his successes, the more comfortable he became with turning the day to day running of his organization over to him. Caserio had an absolute disaster to clean up when he arrived, and although there were folks on both sides of the fence in regards to how he was doing this.....the bottom line, he'll have the team in a healthy cap position by his 3rd year and mostly 1.5 successful drafts under his belt. He's finding the guys who can fit their scheme. If Caserio and Lovie can stay on the same page with a unified vision, then 2022 is just another step in the process. 2023 would bring another infusion of talent via the draft, cap space to entertain signing a couple of top shelf veterans, and keeping this staff intact for some continuity.
 
leebigeztx said:
Why people act like Robert Gallery, Luke Jockel,and Erick Fisher didn't happen. So its ok to miss on a trench guy, but not a qb? What's the difference? A miss is a miss. If you miss on any position, it doesn't matter and its been just as many missed trench players as it has been qb's. With the new salary cap rules, it doesn't hold your franchise back 8 yrs, its more like 3 or 4, see Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold.
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The difference is if your trench guy sucks, your offense still has a chance. If your QB sucks, your offense has no chance. I agree there are plenty of misses, your risk/reward with a QB is higher.
 
leebigeztx said:
In terms of Reid, you see all that backfield motion they do presnap? He wasn't doing that with Alex Smith or McNabb. That's basically what I'm talking about. In todays nfl, that's how you find success with a young qb.
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thats another legit way he exploits speed mismatches. Couldnt really do that with McNabb or Smith b/c he didnt have the speed guy. Thrash/pinkston were fast, but were strictly outside guys…noone would believe they’d get a handoff on a jet sweep from the backfield. Tyreke Hill did it to perfection.
 
leebigeztx said:
Why people act like Robert Gallery, Luke Jockel,and Erick Fisher didn't happen. So its ok to miss on a trench guy, but not a qb? What's the difference? A miss is a miss. If you miss on any position, it doesn't matter and its been just as many missed trench players as it has been qb's. With the new salary cap rules, it doesn't hold your franchise back 8 yrs, its more like 3 or 4, see Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold.
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not necessarily. You miss on a trench guy or any other nonspecialist position you can maybe slide him along the line or corps and get some use out of him as a guard, or at RT….a cb can possibly transition to safety…a 3D edge pass rusher can maybe just transition as a specialist etc. even then if you miss completely, you can just cut bait & the development of your team isnt set back by years. Aside from that, there’s usually no internal debate delaying things…..”well, maybe if he had this…new coach…more weapons… etc..” basically the debate we’re having about Mills now. Missing on a trench guy ain’t really holding nothing up in terms of the development of your team like a qb does.
 
76Texan said:
3 consecutive years of ranking after the O'Brien debacle and there won't be anything but empty stands at NRG.

When you have a chance to get a QB, you need to go for it.
Unless it'a absolutely clear that none of the guys in the draft has a chance to become a better than average NFL QB.

If you don't try, your team has zero chance.
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Yes! The good news is we have over a half a season of college and NFL to evaluate all quarterbacks. Some are acting as if we have to bring another quarterback in before 3:00 Sunday. Hopefully meals can turn it around and make a tremendous advance in his abilities. If not, by the beginning of the draft we will have much more information.
I am not looking to nor do I expect to draft a quarterback only slightly better than meals. If Levis, Stroud or Brice Young not the answer you go to the next best player available as we need basically all positions improved.
 
steelbtexan said:
As far as talent goes I would put Levis/Young and maybe even Duggan (Who's a much better athlete with a stronger arm) and Rising (More Poised and great competitor) ahead of Stroud. Go check out what these guys are doing with far lesser talent around them.
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Come on, man, you really can't seriously believe that Duggan and Rising are better talents than Stroud. You don't have to be a Stroud fan, but Duggan and Rising over Stroud is the hottest take I've read for the 2023 draft. Levis and Young are defensible positions (even if I disagree).

Just say you don't like Stroud and move on; there is no sense in posting nonsense like this.
 
rmartin65 said:
Come on, man, you really can't seriously believe that Duggan and Rising are better talents than Stroud. You don't have to be a Stroud fan, but Duggan and Rising over Stroud is the hottest take I've read for the 2023 draft. Levis and Young are defensible positions (even if I disagree).

Just say you don't like Stroud and move on; there is no sense in posting nonsense like this.
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Did you see the Rose Bowl last yr? Rising was every bit as good as Stroud and he was working with a skill group that was not nearly as good as Strouds skill group. Rising is a great competitor too.

Same can be said for Duggan, have you seen him play this yr. He's played really well. He's got a strong arm and if you want a QB that can run he's probably going to run a 4.4/4.5. Coaches son too and that carries a lot of weight with me.

I go by what I see and sometimes my evals are quite different than the draftnik crowds. I know I have the TE group rated much differently than the draftnik crowd does.
 
Lucky said:
I agree. But I do believe the NFL in general has a bias for SEC players. And Nick Caserio might be among those that do.
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I definitely think that there is an SEC bias. And, honestly, the SEC is the strongest of the leagues, so - for me- if I have two prospects rated about the same and one of them is in the SEC while one is from, I don't know, let's say the Big 10, I will likely choose the SEC guy. But I will never rule out a player just because of where he plays, who he plays for, or what system he plays in. All that stuff matters, but it is all part of the whole sum.

steelbtexan said:
Did you see the Rose Bowl last yr? Rising was every bit as good as Stroud and he was working with a skill group that was not nearly as good as Strouds skill group. Rising is a great competitor too.

Same can be said for Duggan, have you seen him play this yr. He's played really well. He's got a strong arm and if you want a QB that can run he's probably going to run a 4.4/4.5. Coaches son too and that carries a lot of weight with me.

I go by what I see and sometimes my evals are quite different than the draftnik crowds. I know I have the TE group rated much differently than the draftnik crowd does.
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I respect that you don't just parrot what you read/hear. However, in this case, I think you are just way off the mark. Those guys are borderline draftable candidates, in my opinion, of course. For example, 9 QBs were drafted last year, 10 in 2021, and 13 in 2020. That is just about 11 QBs a year, and I don't know if I'd put those guys in my top 11.
 
rmartin65 said:
I definitely think that there is an SEC bias. And, honestly, the SEC is the strongest of the leagues, so - for me- if I have two prospects rated about the same and one of them is in the SEC while one is from, I don't know, let's say the Big 10, I will likely choose the SEC guy. But I will never rule out a player just because of where he plays, who he plays for, or what system he plays in. All that stuff matters, but it is all part of the whole sum.



I respect that you don't just parrot what you read/hear. However, in this case, I think you are just way off the mark. Those guys are borderline draftable candidates, in my opinion, of course. For example, 9 QBs were drafted last year, 10 in 2021, and 13 in 2020. That is just about 11 QBs a year, and I don't know if I'd put those guys in my top 11.
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I respect your opinions.
 
steelbtexan said:
John Elway was a coaches son

Mannings grew up in a football family.

Mahomes grew up in a clubhouse.

Etc...
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The Mannings and Mahomes are great examples of genetics. And Elway didn't go #1 overall because he was a coach's son. Keep trying though.
 
Lucky said:
The Mannings and Mahomes are great examples of genetics. And Elway didn't go #1 overall because he was a coach's son. Keep trying though.
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I'm talking about not only genetics, but growing up and seeing what it takes to be successful 1st hand. Anyways it's my preference. It may not be yours, but that's what makes the world go around.
 
Mr teX said:
not necessarily. You miss on a trench guy or any other nonspecialist position you can maybe slide him along the line or corps and get some use out of him as a guard, or at RT….a cb can possibly transition to safety…a 3D edge pass rusher can maybe just transition as a specialist etc. even then if you miss completely, you can just cut bait & the development of your team isnt set back by years. Aside from that, there’s usually no internal debate delaying things…..”well, maybe if he had this…new coach…more weapons… etc..” basically the debate we’re having about Mills now. Missing on a trench guy ain’t really holding nothing up in terms of the development of your team like a qb does.
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You see Leatherwood get cut. Jonah Williams still struggling. If a qb is ok, they do move along add whatever, but if a trench guy is avg, they string him along also. If you miss high, your team is down a couple of years or you can cut bait like the jets did with Darnold. Tua has been middle of the road and they still won 9 games and 10 games. This is a year for him,but if he's not the guy, guess what? He's been in the league 3 years.
 
leebigeztx said:
You see Leatherwood get cut. Jonah Williams still struggling. If a qb is ok, they do move along add whatever, but if a trench guy is avg, they string him along also. If you miss high, your team is down a couple of years or you can cut bait like the jets did with Darnold. Tua has been middle of the road and they still won 9 games and 10 games. This is a year for him,but if he's not the guy, guess what? He's been in the league 3 years.
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Cmon man, Your team isnt set back years with a highly drafted o-linemen like they are with a highly drafted qb..
 
Mr teX said:
Cmon man, Your team isnt set back years with a highly drafted o-linemen like they are with a highly drafted qb..
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If a guy is a bust and is drafted high, you have to draft that position again or dip into free agency. Either way, its a waste, but with the new rookie salary structure, it doesn't set you back like old.
 
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Xopher said:
Stroud is playing against who? At least young plays in the SEC
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Who did Tua,Mac Jones, and AJ McCarron play against? What about Jamarcus Russell? Better yet, what about all those trench guys from Bama under Saban who turned out to be average in pro's but dominant in college?
 
leebigeztx said:
You see Leatherwood get cut. Jonah Williams still struggling. If a qb is ok, they do move along add whatever, but if a trench guy is avg, they string him along also. If you miss high, your team is down a couple of years or you can cut bait like the jets did with Darnold. Tua has been middle of the road and they still won 9 games and 10 games. This is a year for him,but if he's not the guy, guess what? He's been in the league 3 years.
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Jonah Williams is playing through dislocating his knee cap.
 
leebigeztx said:
He was healthy last year and bad. If you're playing, nobody cares if you're healthy or not if you're bad. He's been bad. leatherwood got cut. Neal is avg so far, been on the ground alot. Those Bama ol players under Saban has been overrated
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Williams was the starting LT on a SB runner up and is still starting this yr despite the Bengals replacing the rest of their OL. So unlike you they must've been somewhat healthy with his play. Understanding is quite different than caring.
 
steelbtexan said:
Williams was the starting LT on a SB runner up and is still starting this yr despite the Bengals replacing the rest of their OL. So unlike you they must've been somewhat healthy with his play. Understanding is quite different than caring.
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Qb got sacked 70 times and check out his grade, he was terrible and still is.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1590396875622199297


Bryce Young, Alabama
The reigning Heisman winner, Young is an electric playmaker with a dual-threat skill set and an incredible feel for the game. He’s got almost everything that NFL evaluators are looking for at the position, combining a strong arm with accuracy, poise, and out-of-structure genius—but he does come with a pretty critical catch: He’s small. Listed at 6-foot-even and 194 pounds, he falls well below traditional size standards at the position, even when compared to a guy like Kyler Murray, who checked in at 5-foot-10 and a thicc 207 pounds at the 2019 combine. Still, I’m not convinced that Young’s lack of size will completely scare off teams in the draft. He’s just so damn good.

A former five-star prospect out of Santa Ana, California, Young was rated as the no. 1 dual-threat quarterback in the country and no. 2 overall player in his class, per 247Sports. He wasted little time in living up to that prospect rating, leading the Crimson Tide to a National Championship Game appearance in his first year as a starter (2021), throwing for 4,872 yards, with 47 touchdowns and just seven picks, in that campaign while adding three scores on the ground. He’s played exceptional ball again this season, throwing for 2,234 yards, with 19 touchdowns and four picks, in eight starts, chipping in an additional 147 yards and three touchdowns as a runner.

Young has a live arm and throws with a quick release, showing the ability to drive passes to the sideline and whip accurate throws on the move.


One big question he’ll face is whether his lack of height will limit his ability to attack the middle of the field. That’s been an issue at times for shorter guys like Russell Wilson and Jalen Hurts, and could cap his effectiveness as a passer. But Young has certainly flashed the ability to hang tight in the pocket, wait for routes to develop, and push the ball down the middle. His ability to synthesize routes and coverage show up on these throws.


Young has Jason Kidd–like vision, and that’s even more apparent on his out-of-structure plays. He has the athleticism to scramble and pick up yards with his feet, but he’s always looking to create big gains with his arm first. He has a good feel for pressure, eludes rushers, and keeps eyes downfield even when moving outside the pocket. He can reset his feet or make off-platform throws. And he has even sprinkled in a few plays where he almost looks like a point guard driving to the hoop and drawing the defense in before throwing an alley-oop to the guy downfield.


Young shows creativity in and out of the pocket to escape the rush and keep plays. That ability showed up big time against Texas, when he avoided what may have been a game-sealing sack with 35 seconds left, ducking under a defender before running for a first down. Alabama hit the game-winning field goal a few plays later. If I had to guess, Young’s probably never lost a game of tag.


If you’re looking for negatives, Young’s deep accuracy can be a little hit-or-miss. He has a tendency to fall away from throws in the face of pressure. And he might be off a handful of teams’ draft boards altogether because of his lack of size. But I think that’d be a mistake; Young has many of the traits that are required to play the position in the NFL, and he possesses the talent to mitigate his height disadvantage.
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C.J. Stroud, Ohio State
Stroud is probably going to be the top quarterback on a lot of teams’ boards. He combines good size with a big arm, surgical accuracy down the field, and elite passing production. A Heisman finalist last year, Stroud took over as the team’s starter and threw for 4,435 yards and 44 touchdowns with just six picks, leading the Buckeyes to a Rose Bowl win over Utah with a truly absurd 573-yard, six-touchdown performance.

A former four-star prospect who was rated as the no. 2 pro-style quarterback in the country by 247Sports, Stroud has a strong arm and throws from a wide, balanced base with a quick, over-the-top release. The first thing that jumps off the tape is his ability to drive a gorgeous, laser-beam deep ball down the field, which is frequently on display in Ohio State’s aggressive scheme.


It’s not just that Stroud has a strong arm, though. He shows the ability to put the ball on a dime at all three levels, frequently dropping a pass in where only his target can get it or leading his receivers away from defenders and into open field.


Stroud is a pocket passer with a good feel for how to avoid the rush. He senses pressure but keeps his eyes downfield, and has shown he can beat the blitz or make a throw with a pass rusher bearing down on him. In the first play below, when the defense brings an all-out blitz, he expertly attacks the vacated area in the deep middle of the field. In the second play, he gets a throw off down the seam despite pressure in his face.


The redshirt sophomore can throw with anticipation, releasing a pass before his target has made his break. He understands how to manipulate coverage with his eyes, holding a safety to one side before unleashing a pass in the other direction. And while he’s capable of picking up yards with his legs, he always keeps his eyes downfield when extending plays. His first priority is always to throw, and he’ll even run parallel down the line of scrimmage to try to let routes develop before taking off. He anticipates where his targets are going to be on scramble drill plays and flashes the ability to make something out of nothing when the play breaks down.


Stroud’s smooth demeanor in the pocket can be a double-edged sword, as he plays with an almost robotic style that isn’t as effective when structure breaks down. He seems to predetermine throws at times and will let a pass rip into coverage as if he can’t see the defenders—sometimes leading his intended targets into massive hits. He frequently takes an extra hitch before throwing and will need to work on eliminating that crutch at the next level. And while he can scramble, he’s not a true dual threat.
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https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/...ss-breakdown-bryce-young-cj-stroud-will-levis
 
Doc108 said:
Not feeling it on this years QB draft but I think Young is the best choice of them all. But I’d still prefer Drake or Williams next year. That is if we’re even in a position to get them
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Shame we can't see the future to know for sure if the Texans are in a position to draft either and also to see if they pull a Rattler or not
 
JB said:
As a freshman, Spencer Rattler at Oklahoma took the nation by storm and was projected to be one of the greatest to come out in years. The next year he was exposed and lost his job and had to transfer to South Carolina
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Thanks for the update I stepped away from football nearly 100% last year
 
Speedy said:
The Texans have gone to the playoffs with Hoyer and Osweiler at QB. You can have a team put it together one year and have the ball bounce their way for the most part, but if you want to be consistent, you need a QB.
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I think we're all for drafting a QB if Mills doesn't improve. The question is do you reach for one this yr, or do you build the team out and draft one in the stronger 2024 class?
 
In Alabama game versus Ole Miss with seconds left in the first half and in the red zone Bryce Young seems indecisive on calling the play and receives a delay of game. Next snap he uses his Rattler strike ability to throw a touchdown to his tight end. He continues like Davis Mills in my opinion to play better when he does not think so much. Most other boards I review disagree with me saying he makes his reads well and successfully completes the play. His size does not seem to affect his ability to play and yes there are huge defensive players in college.
 
Has any QB broken the Heisman Curse?

As close to the Astrodome curse thingy, is this something we want to mess with?
 
Xopher said:
Don't want Young or any QB in this draft. I want Detroit's 2 1sts and their 2nd
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we may get deleted as you are edging into draft but the problem is as it stands tonight Detroit doesn't need to trade up to get one of Young or Stroud. Whether those on this MB agrees most others thinks they are going 1-2 in position and either could be 1.1.
 
steelbtexan said:
Then I pick Maye after trading up to 3rd like the 49ers did with Lance. Also there likely will be other QB's that play well enough to be 1st rd prospects. I'm thinking the Texans run with Mills next yr and if he has a yr that you think he's going to have then a top 10 pick shouldn't be an issue. I actually think the lowest pick they will have is 12. They should consider trading down this yr unless Carter is there for future picks.
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I was very impressed with Maye today. I’m liking Penix from Washington as well
 
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