2023 Davis Mills vs Bryce Young

[steelbtexan]

Then use the same draft to give him an Ohio State type offense. You can have him and wide receiver Smith and if you get Stroud with a trade down to Detroit or where I think Seattle will eventually end up and pick up another round 1 get left tackle Paris Johnson who can play right guard at a high level.

I'm just saying that drafting Stroud does not have to be looked at as the only move.

Give him more talent than any team he plays against in the NFL? What a novel idea. Because that's what he's got at Ohio St. Give me Levis or Young if I'm going to take a risk with a high draft pick. Young is much more poised and Levis has played at a fairly high level with much less talent around him. Plus Levis has the size/arm talent to become an elite QB. However like I've said many times I wouldn't draft a QB in the upcoming draft. In fact I like Duggan and Rising as much as I like the top 3 QB's in this draft. Better athletes, got the requsite arm strength and are great competitors.

 

[badboy]

Wilson was also coming off 4 years of CFB and 32 starts for North Carolina State and 14 for Wisconsin. That's substantial margin of CFB starts compared to 11 over 3 seasons for Davis Mills which also had C-19 forcing time lost on the field.

I'm not sure what else you'd expect under those conditions, but I can see the good and would be willing to give him the time to finish his development. It's a real shame the Texans didn't go after a more accomplished veteran QB1 to bridge the 2 season developmental gap I would've enjoyed seeing Mills get. Remember, he only entered the draft b/c he simply had no idea if there was going to be another CFB season at Stanford due to California's potential C-19 mandates. The Texans got him much later (RD3) than they would've if he had gone back to Stanford for a couple of additional seasons before entering the draft.

The Texans are in the 1.5 point of at least a 4.0 phase rebuild.....it's going to take time for Mills to play all those games lost in college, but I'm sure we'd know even more by the end of this season.

I guess the Texans really liked where Davis ended last season and thought they could go with a Jag as a backup.

 

[76Texan]

2 totally different situations.

Wilson came into an offense that ranked 23rd in points scored and 29th in yards gained the previous two years.
Like I said, he had a worse Oline and worse weapons.
A college coach that was still trying to prove himself instead of a proven HC in Lovie.
You're right. The situations are different.
Wilson had it worse

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Wilson came into an offense that ranked 23rd in points scored and 29th in yards gained the previous two years.
Like I said, he had a worse Oline and worse weapons.
A college coach that was still trying to prove himself instead of a proven HC in Lovie.
You're right. The situations are different.
Wilson had it worse

Mills came into Culley and Kelly……then got Lovie and Pep in his second season, along with a new offense. I hope this is the final HC and staff for a while, but something tells me it could change inside the next 2 seasons.

Wilson came into a situation that was going to stabilize the organization to this day. The Seahawks got that defense right in short order and that made a major difference. Texans defense could be in a short order situation if Caserio can nail another draft class.

 

[JB]

You're right. The situations are different.
Wilson had it worse

That Seattle team would have wiped the floor with the 2020 Texans

 

[76Texan]

Mills came into Culley and Kelly……then got Lovie and Pep in his second season, along with a new offense. I hope this is the final HC and staff for a while, but something tells me it could change inside the next 2 seasons.

Wilson came into a situation that was going to stabilize the organization to this day. The Seahawks got that defense right in short order and that made a major difference. Texans defense could be in a short order situation if Caserio can nail another draft class.

This was the situation Wilson came into:

2012 NFL Offseason: Seattle Seahawks – WalterFootball

walterfootball.com

Okung was always injured though he did play in 15 games.
Carpenter only made 7.
And remember Breno Giacomini?
One of the worst OT that we had witnessed first-hand here in Houston.
McQuistan was a part-time starter in his previous 5 years (22 starts).

His no. 1 receiver is another Will Fuller type.

Sidney Rice Injury: Seahawks WR Had A Pair Of Offseason Shoulder Surgeries, Expected To Be Ready For Camp

Seahawks WR Sidney Rice had both shoulders operated on during the offseason.

www.sbnation.com

His production was that of an average second receiver on most teams (50 catches).

The Seahawks gave Matt Flynn $10M guarantee on a $120 salary cap (as compared to $208M in 2022).
That money could have gone to at least one quality starter.
Rice's salary that year was just $7M.

Yet, Wilson Air Yard per Attempt was still 8.1 vs. Mills' pedestrian 5.8

With Mills' 166 attempts, that's another 382 passing yards that Mills could have had.

And Wilson made plays with his feet, too.
489 yards and 4TD

Wilson was on his third HC and OC in 3 years.
He transferred from NC State to Wisconsin before arriving to Seattle

 

[TexansBull]

This was the situation Wilson came into:

2012 NFL Offseason: Seattle Seahawks – WalterFootball

walterfootball.com

Okung was always injured though he did play in 15 games.
Carpenter only made 7.
And remember Breno Giacomini?
One of the worst OT that we had witnessed first-hand here in Houston.
McQuistan was a part-time starter in his previous 5 years (22 starts).

His no. 1 receiver is another Will Fuller type.

Sidney Rice Injury: Seahawks WR Had A Pair Of Offseason Shoulder Surgeries, Expected To Be Ready For Camp

Seahawks WR Sidney Rice had both shoulders operated on during the offseason.

www.sbnation.com

His production was that of an average second receiver on most teams (50 catches).

The Seahawks gave Matt Flynn $10M guarantee on a $120 salary cap (as compared to $208M in 2022).
That money could have gone to at least one quality starter.
Rice's salary that year was just $7M.

Yet, Wilson Air Yard per Attempt was still 8.1 vs. Mills' pedestrian 5.8

With Mills' 166 attempts, that's another 382 passing yards that Mills could have had.

And Wilson made plays with his feet, too.
489 yards and 4TD

Wilson was on his third HC and OC in 3 years.
He transferred from NC State to Wisconsin before arriving to Seattle

Cool.

Now compare the defense.

As I and others have said earlier - Seahawks had the luxury of drafting a QB because when Carroll first got there it was rebuilding the defense. Then in Wilson’s rookie year they drafted Tate and o-line help.

If the defense is fixed then half the teams problems go away. Just like Seattle.

Also - why are you comparing a potential HOF QB to Mills? No one is pounding the table for Mills next year. This isn’t a Mills love fest. We are 6 games in and just want to see how Mills finishes the season.

If Caserio thinks there is a QB worth drafting than we have to trust Caserio. Some of us are just making the case to pass on a QB because there are other issues with this team.

I know I want to bring the next QB in a more friendly situation than we are now. Like the Bills did with Allen, KC and Mahomes, San Diego and Herbert, Seattle and Wilson and others.

 

[76Texan]

Cool.

Now compare the defense.

As I and others have said earlier - Seahawks had the luxury of drafting a QB because when Carroll first got there it was rebuilding the defense. Then in Wilson’s rookie year they drafted Tate and o-line help.

If the defense is fixed then half the teams problems go away. Just like Seattle.

Also - why are you comparing a potential HOF QB to Mills? No one is pounding the table for Mills next year. This isn’t a Mills love fest. We are 6 games in and just want to see how Mills finishes the season.

If Caserio thinks there is a QB worth drafting than we have to trust Caserio. Some of us are just making the case to pass on a QB because there are other issues with this team.

I know I want to bring the next QB in a more friendly situation than we are now. Like the Bills did with Allen, KC and Mahomes, San Diego and Herbert, Seattle and Wilson and others.

You guys are just making some of the things up.

Neither the Bills nor the Seahawks were a QB away from contending when they drafted Allen and Wilson.
Both still needed several pieces on offense.

In fact , the Seahawks were never able to solve their Oline issue.
Just do some research on it and you'll see.

They get their QB first and build around him, not the other way around.

Had the Seahawks followed your game plan, they would still be without a franchise QB.

 

[TexansBull]

You guys are just making some of the things up.

Neither the Bills nor the Seahawks were a QB away from contending when they drafted Allen and Wilson.
Both still needed several pieces on offense.

In fact , the Seahawks were never able to solve their Oline issue.
Just do some research on it and you'll see.

They get their QB first and build around him, not the other way around.

Had the Seahawks followed your game plan, they would still be without a franchise QB.

Still avoiding the defense question.

You are spinning things. It isn’t about being a QB away. No one said that. It’s about having a more complete team compared to where we are now. Every team I listed were in better shape than the Texans. Every team has holes that they need to work on. We have more than typical teams.

 

[JB]

This was the situation Wilson came into:

No it isn't
He came into the team that Tavaris Jackson had just taken to 7-9 with Marshawn Lynch, Michael Robinson at RB and Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate,Sydney Rice,Jermaine Kearse and Deon Butler at WR. The TE group is better than what the Texans had also.
Mills came into a team that Deshaun Watson took to 4-12 with David Johnson, Duke Johnson and Dontrell Hilliard at RB. Brandin Cooks, Isaiah Coulter and Keke Coutee at WR.
And the defenses (that you continue to ignore) were pathetic for the Texans

 

[JB]

Also - why are you comparing a potential HOF QB to Mills? No one is pounding the table for Mills next year. This isn’t a Mills love fest. We are 6 games in and just want to see how Mills finishes the season.

Still avoiding the defense question.

You are spinning things. It isn’t about being a QB away. No one said that. It’s about having a more complete team compared to where we are now. Every team I listed were in better shape than the Texans. Every team has holes that they need to work on. We have more than typical teams.

Some people are like 14 year olds trying to argue why they should be allowed to drive...

Moving the goalposts and ignoring anything that doesn't agree with them

 

[76Texan]

They were throwing darts at the QB board at that point. They signed Flynn the same yr they drafted Russ. The point is that they built their team before they started throwing darts at the QB dart board. They didn't use a high draft pick to get their QB that yr, why? Because they didn't like that yrs QB class. Kinda how I feel about this yrs class, for different reasons.

@TexanBull
This was the first post I responded to.
Stellb was saying that the Seahawks already had their team (including the offense) built.

My point to counter that is NO, the Seahawks still had many holes to fill.

You're the one who tried to stir the conversation toward a different direction.

 

[JB]

@TexanBull
This was the first post I responded to.
Stellb was saying that the Seahawks already had their team (including the offense) built.

My point to counter that is NO, the Seahawks still had many holes to fill.

You're the one who tried to stir the conversation toward a different direction.

You knew that was the middle of a conversation and yet now you are pretending it was a new conversation?

 

[thunderkyss]

That Seattle team would have wiped the floor with the 2020 Texans

Doesn't mean that was a good team.

 

[thunderkyss]

2012 rushing yards

 

[Xopher]

The current Texans have a better Oline than Wilson did back then (and forever).
Brandon Cooks is a better no. 1 than anything the Seahawks had in 2012.
Collins could be better than their no. 2
The TE situation is at best a wash. Texans have better depth.
The Seahawks did not have a reliable 2nd RB either.
Despite all that, Wilson played well as a rookie.

Mills is in his second year

Wilson was also a 5th year Senior out of college

 

[Xopher]

To me Stroud is an enigma, because you really don't know what you will get with him. I've seen him make good throws, but I've also seen him make terrible throws that his WR's have still caught. He's on a team with better talent than every other team they play. It seems like he has forever to throw the ball, and has some of the best WR's in the country. His WR's still have to save him after he's made a bad throw too often. Would he be any good if he was on a team that didn't have that talent? I don't know. I honestly don't think he would be in the discussion as one of the best QB's if he played for an average team.

Stroud could make himself a sandwich and eat it, then complete the pass with that protection he has.

 

[badboy]

Stroud could make himself a sandwich and eat it, then complete the pass with that protection he has.

If we need to improve the offensive line and receiving corps for Davis Mills would not that be the same for Stroud or any other quarterback?

 

[Xopher]

If we need to improve the offensive line and receiving corps for Davis Mills would not that be the same for Stroud or any other quarterback?

Absolutely. That is why I can't give a true evaluation of Stroud. He has the top receiving corps in the nation and all the time in the world to throw to them. I like Young and Levis better. I am not sure how Young will hold up. I'd rather wait a year and build up the core of the team. Skill positions and defense

 

[badboy]

Absolutely. That is why I can't give a true evaluation of Stroud. He has the top receiving corps in the nation and all the time in the world to throw to them. I like Young and Levis better. I am not sure how Young will hold up. I'd rather wait a year and build up the core of the team. Skill positions and defense

This will probably not be a good comparison but I see Stroud more of a Herbert quarterback, Bryce Young a Jalen Hurts and Levis a Zack Wilson. Levis may get there but may take him a while.

 

[JB]

Doesn't mean that was a good team.

I never said it was a good team. I said it was better than the team Mills started with

 

[vtech9]

Absolutely. That is why I can't give a true evaluation of Stroud. He has the top receiving corps in the nation and all the time in the world to throw to them. I like Young and Levis better. I am not sure how Young will hold up. I'd rather wait a year and build up the core of the team. Skill positions and defense

Exactly. I think we should continue to build the team, bring in a vet in '23, and find our QB in '24.

 

[badboy]

Exactly. I think we should continue to build the team, bring in a vet in '23, and find our QB in '24.

Which vet in 23?

 

[vtech9]

Which vet in 23?

That's a good question. It depends on who's available.

 

[leebigeztx]

Give him more talent than any team he plays against in the NFL? What a novel idea. Because that's what he's got at Ohio St. Give me Levis or Young if I'm going to take a risk with a high draft pick. Young is much more poised and Levis has played at a fairly high level with much less talent around him. Plus Levis has the size/arm talent to become an elite QB. However like I've said many times I wouldn't draft a QB in the upcoming draft. In fact I like Duggan and Rising as much as I like the top 3 QB's in this draft. Better athletes, got the requsite arm strength and are great competitors.

Please tell us why you really don't like Stroud on field?

 

[leebigeztx]

Absolutely. That is why I can't give a true evaluation of Stroud. He has the top receiving corps in the nation and all the time in the world to throw to them. I like Young and Levis better. I am not sure how Young will hold up. I'd rather wait a year and build up the core of the team. Skill positions and defense

So young didn't play with top talent? He only had the heisman trophy winner and a wr on ir who was the absolute best wr in cfb last season. Miss me with that.

 

[steelbtexan]

Please tell us why you really don't like Stroud on field?

I've already told you. I dont like the offense he plays in. He's always playing with the best talent against inferior opponents. But if you want to know why I dont like Fields, when the talent was close go back and look at the Notre Dame game. Then compare Young and even Levis who's got much less talent around him.

 

[steelbtexan]

So young didn't play with top talent. He only had the heisman trophy winner and a wr on ir who was the absolute best wr in cfb last season. Miss me with that.

Not this yr and he's still putting on a show. Young is one of the most poised QB's I've seen in along time. Dont think his body will hold up in the NFL though.

 

[leebigeztx]

Not this yr and he's still putting on a show. Young is one of the most poised QB's I've seen in along time. Dont think his body will hold up in the NFL though.

So he didn't struggle vs Texas?

 

[steelbtexan]

So he didn't struggle vs Texas?

Did he show poise in the face of adversity?

 

[leebigeztx]

I've already told you. I dont like the offense he plays in. He's always playing with the best talent against inferior opponents. But if you want to know why I dont like Fields, when the talent was close go back and look at the Notre Dame game. Then compare Young and even Levis who's got much less talent around him.

Whenever its Stroud, its Athletes 1st and Avery or do I need to pull receipts? The offense means nothing because college offenses are in the pro's now. Mahomes played in air raid. He's not playing in an all air raid,but there are alot of air raid concepts in it because Reid is a smart coach. Think about this and this is why coaching is so important especially on the offensive side. He drafted McNabb who ran the spread option and took him to the nfccg 4 times. 3 of which he was throwing to james Thrash and Freddie Mitchell. When he had Vick, the offense was different also. As a new era coach and everyone running spread /air raid type offenses in college, you have to tailor your offense to the qb. If not, guess what's going to happen? Wasted pick and you're going to get fired. Nobody in modern cf are running old school nfl type principles. Bama ain't doing it either because they're getting their skill players on the field all the time. Bailey Zappe is playing as well as Matt Jones has and where did he come from? If you draft any young qb and try to have them in a box, its going to fail.

 

[leebigeztx]

Did he show poise in the face of adversity?

I have no problem with young, I have a problem, not really, with posters acting like Stroud is playing with something these other big programs kids aren't playing with. Levis has players, not as many as Bryce or Stroud, we can agree on that I guess, but Stroud has been amazing this season. The kid in Tennessee has also, he's just older. Again,all it takes is a 7 win season next year and you're not going to get your hands on a difference maker at qb whether its Ewers or Williams or whomever. There isn't any amount of draft picks you can give a team who needs a franchise qb and are in position to get one that you can offer. Especially if its a team in your division or conference. If Washington or Detroit is sitting at 1 or 2 in 2024 and there and its Williams and Ewers there, you think they're going to trade with anyone?

 

[OptimisticTexan]

If we need to improve the offensive line and receiving corps for Davis Mills would not that be the same for Stroud or any other quarterback?

Not if that RD1 pick is used on an OL or WR instead of Stroud. Stroud and Young play for the 2 best goliaths in CFB. They don't endure a draft in getting their players.....Alabama and Ohio State essentially notify top players that they'll be sending them letters. My biggest concern is what happens when they come to a team that isn't loaded with 5 and 4 star recruits throughout the roster and suddenly find themselves facing a lot adversity week in and week out?

 

[76Texan]

Wilson was also a 5th year Senior out of college

Irrelevant to the main argument:

To draft a QB first or to build as much of the whole team (especially the offense) first.

 

[76Texan]

I have no problem with young, I have a problem, not really, with posters acting like Stroud is playing with something these other big programs kids aren't playing with. Levis has players, not as many as Bryce or Stroud, we can agree on that I guess, but Stroud has been amazing this season. The kid in Tennessee has also, he's just older. Again,all it takes is a 7 win season next year and you're not going to get your hands on a difference maker at qb whether its Ewers or Williams or whomever. There isn't any amount of draft picks you can give a team who needs a franchise qb and are in position to get one that you can offer. Especially if its a team in your division or conference. If Washington or Detroit is sitting at 1 or 2 in 2024 and there and its Williams and Ewers there, you think they're going to trade with anyone?

3 consecutive years of ranking after the O'Brien debacle and there won't be anything but empty stands at NRG.

When you have a chance to get a QB, you need to go for it.
Unless it'a absolutely clear that none of the guys in the draft has a chance to become a better than average NFL QB.

If you don't try, your team has zero chance.

 

[76Texan]

Whenever its Stroud, its Athletes 1st and Avery or do I need to pull receipts? The offense means nothing because college offenses are in the pro's now. Mahomes played in air raid. He's not playing in an all air raid,but there are alot of air raid concepts in it because Reid is a smart coach. Think about this and this is why coaching is so important especially on the offensive side. He drafted McNabb who ran the spread option and took him to the nfccg 4 times. 3 of which he was throwing to james Thrash and Freddie Mitchell. When he had Vick, the offense was different also. As a new era coach and everyone running spread /air raid type offenses in college, you have to tailor your offense to the qb. If not, guess what's going to happen? Wasted pick and you're going to get fired. Nobody in modern cf are running old school nfl type principles. Bama ain't doing it either because they're getting their skill players on the field all the time. Bailey Zappe is playing as well as Matt Jones has and where did he come from? If you draft any young qb and try to have them in a box, its going to fail.

Exactly.
Also, once you get your QB, you can build out the rest of the offense to support him best.

If you get a mobile QB then you can concentrate on giving him more weapons instead of spending all the capital/resources on the Oline.

Same if your QB can make fast reads.

On the other hand, if your QB is not as mobile or need more time in the pocket then you'd concentrate on the Online first.

 

[Rich Schmidt]

I think the draft leads you. If you don't have the guy, and you are fairly sure you can get the guy (QB), you get him. If you don't think that draft has the guy, keep building your team, and I lean on trenches personally. Don't draft a hot college QB that you HOPE can be the guy, be pretty convinced. Kyler, Baker, Trubisky, Lance, Fields, Manziel to me were all hopes and hype. Their list of bad traits were pretty predictable. Patriots drafted a QB that I think had less downside and less upside, but I think they felt they knew the floor and needed a QB so went with him. Third round, you can throw the hope chip, not in the 1st or even the 2nd. The high draft picks make a team stick with their mistakes way too long

 

[Mr teX]

Whenever its Stroud, its Athletes 1st and Avery or do I need to pull receipts? The offense means nothing because college offenses are in the pro's now. Mahomes played in air raid. He's not playing in an all air raid,but there are alot of air raid concepts in it because Reid is a smart coach. Think about this and this is why coaching is so important especially on the offensive side. He drafted McNabb who ran the spread option and took him to the nfccg 4 times. 3 of which he was throwing to james Thrash and Freddie Mitchell. When he had Vick, the offense was different also. As a new era coach and everyone running spread /air raid type offenses in college, you have to tailor your offense to the qb. If not, guess what's going to happen? Wasted pick and you're going to get fired. Nobody in modern cf are running old school nfl type principles. Bama ain't doing it either because they're getting their skill players on the field all the time. Bailey Zappe is playing as well as Matt Jones has and where did he come from? If you draft any young qb and try to have them in a box, its going to fail.

Its a delicate balance for sure & the HC has to do a good job of tailoring the offense to his qb. Ratio has to be somewhere between 60-40, 70-30 in terms of NFL offense to college offensive concepts for it to be successful imo. I look at a guy like Lamar Jackson who has regressed as a passer since his MVP year b/c the offense was tailored TOO much to what he did in college & was capable of as an athlete. Defenses have now adjusted to his tailor-made offense and he hasn't really advanced as a passer.

Then you have a guy like Josh Allen who had the measureables to do alot of things & Daboll used some college type concept things to get him comfortable & productive playing on the NFL level....like that qb jet sweep he scored on the Texans with in that playoff game..That allowed him to mature and learn NFL passing concepts & he has taken off.

Reid imo has been successful b/c he's good at exploiting speed mismatches....& he is 1 of the biggest violators/incorporators of using pick plays/rub routes with his WR's downfield...which when you really parse it out, there's very little to distinguish between the 2. People marvel at how his WR's & TE's are consistently always running free? That's why. More power to him b/c the NFL lets him get away with it, but its just 1 of the many reasons why i'm not as high on Reid

 

[steelbtexan]

Whenever its Stroud, its Athletes 1st and Avery or do I need to pull receipts? The offense means nothing because college offenses are in the pro's now. Mahomes played in air raid. He's not playing in an all air raid,but there are alot of air raid concepts in it because Reid is a smart coach. Think about this and this is why coaching is so important especially on the offensive side. He drafted McNabb who ran the spread option and took him to the nfccg 4 times. 3 of which he was throwing to james Thrash and Freddie Mitchell. When he had Vick, the offense was different also. As a new era coach and everyone running spread /air raid type offenses in college, you have to tailor your offense to the qb. If not, guess what's going to happen? Wasted pick and you're going to get fired. Nobody in modern cf are running old school nfl type principles. Bama ain't doing it either because they're getting their skill players on the field all the time. Bailey Zappe is playing as well as Matt Jones has and where did he come from? If you draft any young qb and try to have them in a box, its going to fail.

Stroud isn't this level athlete. He doesn't have a singular outstanding trait. That's not to say he's a bad player, but if I'm going to be relegated to having to deal with the trash that's DM/QA, you know the type that think the contracts THEY negotiated aren't worth the paper they were written on, the QB better be an Elway/Manning type talent and Stroud ain't that.

 

[steelbtexan]

Not if that RD1 pick is used on an OL or WR instead of Stroud. Stroud and Young play for the 2 best goliaths in CFB. They don't endure a draft in getting their players.....Alabama and Ohio State essentially notify top players that they'll be sending them letters. My biggest concern is what happens when they come to a team that isn't loaded with 5 and 4 star recruits throughout the roster and suddenly find themselves facing a lot adversity week in and week out?

You just described Josh Fields.

 

[steelbtexan]

I have no problem with young, I have a problem, not really, with posters acting like Stroud is playing with something these other big programs kids aren't playing with. Levis has players, not as many as Bryce or Stroud, we can agree on that I guess, but Stroud has been amazing this season. The kid in Tennessee has also, he's just older. Again,all it takes is a 7 win season next year and you're not going to get your hands on a difference maker at qb whether its Ewers or Williams or whomever. There isn't any amount of draft picks you can give a team who needs a franchise qb and are in position to get one that you can offer. Especially if its a team in your division or conference. If Washington or Detroit is sitting at 1 or 2 in 2024 and there and its Williams and Ewers there, you think they're going to trade with anyone?

Then I pick Maye after trading up to 3rd like the 49ers did with Lance. Also there likely will be other QB's that play well enough to be 1st rd prospects. I'm thinking the Texans run with Mills next yr and if he has a yr that you think he's going to have then a top 10 pick shouldn't be an issue. I actually think the lowest pick they will have is 12. They should consider trading down this yr unless Carter is there for future picks.

 

[steelbtexan]

3 consecutive years of ranking after the O'Brien debacle and there won't be anything but empty stands at NRG.

When you have a chance to get a QB, you need to go for it.
Unless it'a absolutely clear that none of the guys in the draft has a chance to become a better than average NFL QB.

If you don't try, your team has zero chance.

This is how the Texans have operated in the past. Have you enjoyed the results enough to say give me another decade of what we've had sir?

 

[steelbtexan]

Irrelevant to the main argument:

To draft a QB first or to build as much of the whole team (especially the offense) first.

So games a QB has played is irrelevant?

 

[Mollywhopper]

You just described Josh Fields.

Thank goodness for Josh Fields..

 

[76Texan]

So games a QB has played is irrelevant?

Has nothing to do with any QB.

It was about the philosophy of whether to draft the QB first or to build the pieces around the QB first.

 

[JB]

Has nothing to do with any QB.

It was about the philosophy of whether to draft the QB first or to build the pieces around the QB first.

And yet you were the one that tried to shift it to a Wilson vs Mills conversation

 

[leebigeztx]

Its a delicate balance for sure & the HC has to do a good job of tailoring the offense to his qb. Ratio has to be somewhere between 60-40, 70-30 in terms of NFL offense to college offensive concepts for it to be successful imo. I look at a guy like Lamar Jackson who has regressed as a passer since his MVP year b/c the offense was tailored TOO much to what he did in college & was capable of as an athlete. Defenses have now adjusted to his tailor-made offense and he hasn't really advanced as a passer.

Then you have a guy like Josh Allen who had the measureables to do alot of things & Daboll used some college type concept things to get him comfortable & productive playing on the NFL level....like that qb jet sweep he scored on the Texans with in that playoff game..That allowed him to mature and learn NFL passing concepts & he has taken off.

Reid imo has been successful b/c he's good at exploiting speed mismatches....& he is 1 of the biggest violators/incorporators of using pick plays/rub routes with his WR's downfield...which when you really parse it out, there's very little to distinguish between the 2. People marvel at how his WR's & TE's are consistently always running free? That's why. More power to him b/c the NFL lets him get away with it, but its just 1 of the many reasons why i'm not as high on Reid

In terms of Reid, you see all that backfield motion they do presnap? He wasn't doing that with Alex Smith or McNabb. That's basically what I'm talking about. In todays nfl, that's how you find success with a young qb.

 

[leebigeztx]

Stroud isn't this level athlete. He doesn't have a singular outstanding trait. That's not to say he's a bad player, but if I'm going to be relegated to having to deal with the trash that's DM/QA, you know the type that think the contracts THEY negotiated aren't worth the paper they were written on, the QB better be an Elway/Manning type talent and Stroud ain't that.

He's an above average athlete in every way possible. He has a quick release, ball comes out his hand with power, he's mobile in the pocket also. He has a top shelf arm also . He doesn't throw from alot of angles like Mahomes nor does he have a cannon like Allen, but his arm is stronger than both the Mannings, River, Brees, Rodgers and a host of other successful nfl qb's. Again, if you're only looking for Elway or Manning type of talent, you wouldn't ever draft a qb. Yet, if you're measuring sb's, they played 37 yrs and got 4 and we know Manning was trash his last year because of that injury. Look, we know your gripe vs Stroud and it has nothing to do with on field. I've watched you post about McCarrons and Mac Jones despite them playing with super stars and not having any special qualities. We're not going to agree, but just be 100 sometimes. You don't like him because he deals with Avery, that's it.

 

[leebigeztx]

I think the draft leads you. If you don't have the guy, and you are fairly sure you can get the guy (QB), you get him. If you don't think that draft has the guy, keep building your team, and I lean on trenches personally. Don't draft a hot college QB that you HOPE can be the guy, be pretty convinced. Kyler, Baker, Trubisky, Lance, Fields, Manziel to me were all hopes and hype. Their list of bad traits were pretty predictable. Patriots drafted a QB that I think had less downside and less upside, but I think they felt they knew the floor and needed a QB so went with him. Third round, you can throw the hope chip, not in the 1st or even the 2nd. The high draft picks make a team stick with their mistakes way too long

Why people act like Robert Gallery, Luke Jockel,and Erick Fisher didn't happen. So its ok to miss on a trench guy, but not a qb? What's the difference? A miss is a miss. If you miss on any position, it doesn't matter and its been just as many missed trench players as it has been qb's. With the new salary cap rules, it doesn't hold your franchise back 8 yrs, its more like 3 or 4, see Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold.

 

[steelbtexan]

He's an above average athlete in every way possible. He has a quick release, ball comes out his hand with power, he's mobile in the pocket also. He has a top shelf arm also . He doesn't throw from alot of angles like Mahomes nor does he have a cannon like Allen, but his arm is stronger than both the Mannings, River, Brees, Rodgers and a host of other successful nfl qb's. Again, if you're only looking for Elway or Manning type of talent, you wouldn't ever draft a qb. Yet, if you're measuring sb's, they played 37 yrs and got 4 and we know Manning was trash his last year because of that injury. Look, we know your gripe vs Stroud and it has nothing to do with on field. I've watched you post about McCarrons and Mac Jones despite them playing with super stars and not having any special qualities. We're not going to agree, but just be 100 sometimes. You don't like him because he deals with Avery, that's it.

Like I said unless A guys a transcendent talent. (Which Stroud isn''t IMHO) I'm not having to deal with the trash that represents Stroud. The talent level isn't worth the headache. As far as talent goes I would put Levis/Young and maybe even Duggan (Who's a much better athlete with a stronger arm) and Rising (More Poised and great competitor) ahead of Stroud. Go check out what these guys are doing with far lesser talent around them.