TexansBull
Hall of Fame
If you know where the thread where the mock’s discussion is then take your conversation there.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Preseason - TEXANS @ New England
- Thread starter Speedy
- Start date
If you know where the thread where the mock’s discussion is then take your conversation there.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Armstead (Dolphin's LT) was carted off the field today not being able to place weight on his right knee. Later in the day, he posted a video of him "walking normally" and saying "I'm fine." He in the offseason underwent a "clean up" right knee arthroscopy. He also had another procedure on that same knee in 2022. Just an FYI, several significant knee injuries allow a player to walk gingerly (as seen in his video) after a short while. This is especially not uncommon after injuries such as meniscus tears, articular damage, MCL tears, and even ACL tears. The MRI should tell the story in most cases, although sometimes arthroscopic exams are necessary to detect pathology missed by the MRI.
************************************************************************************************
Terron Armstead Injury Update: What We Know About the Miami Dolphins OT
The Miami Dolphins can't afford to lose left tackle Terron Armstead, but he appeared to suffer another leg injury during Thursday's joint practice.
************************************************************************************************
Terron Armstead Injury Update: What We Know About the Miami Dolphins OT
The Miami Dolphins can't afford to lose left tackle Terron Armstead, but he appeared to suffer another leg injury during Thursday's joint practice.
Last edited:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I think @steelbtexan is off on his evaluation of Stroud and way out of line with some of his attacks on Stroud's character, but you are hardly arguing fairly. As you are no doubt aware, people can and do change their minds during draft season. His posts closer to the draft are thus probably a better representation of his thoughts on Mahomes than those several weeks/months prior.
The 2017 NFL Draft began on 27 April. By 25 April, steelb was talking about trading up for Mahomes; here he is calling Mahomes "a franchise QB", and here he is talking about trading up to #9 with Cincy (Mahomes ended up being picked at #10, so that was a good call on steel's part).
He's had some bad calls (as have we all), but I'm inclined to say he was right about Mahomes.
A franchise QB, you give up a boat load for him; which is what the Texans did for CJ.
In that thread, steelb was still bargaining with Icak whether they should trade up to 16 or 9.
It's totally different from how he's been pimping for Caleb Williams.
I don't spend a lot of time here anymore (I have no desire to get into and/or read the same arguments ad nauseam) so I'm coming late to the party in this thread, but you are moving the goal posts. My argument post had nothing to do with @steelbtexan 's thoughts on spending assets to acquire Stroud. It wasn't about his opinions on Williams. It was about his evaluation of Mahomes (including steel mentioning a trade up to #9, which would have actually been the position required to jump high enough to get Mahoemes), which I showed you misrepresented by linking older posts in lieu of his posts closer to the draft.
Let's recap how it all went down; steelbtexan is going on one of his usual rants against Stroud (and I agree with you that I think he is wrong there). You then kick off the argument here by saying "You're so stubborn; it's no wonder you've never been all that good in QB evaluation."
steel responds by bringing up Mahomes.
You claim that he was "all over the place" and link a thread of his from 9 January 2017, then one from 26 February 2017. Then it looks like you intended to link others, but I don't see them. In any case, none of this contradicts what I showed or what steel said- steel's posts nearer to the actual draft show that he was a fan of Mahomes and rated him highly, even advocating trading #25, #89, and the 2018 first (the Chiefs traded #27, #91, and the 2018 to get to #10 to select Mahomes in real life) in order to move up to #9 for him. Look at that; his proposed trade up was even very, very close to being on the mark for what that trade up ended up costing. I think steelb nailed the Mahomes situation in the days immediately leading up to the draft.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
No….the Texans and Caserio gave up a boat load to obtain the services of Will Anderson, Jr. I believe Will will reward them handsomely for their willingness to trade up for him.
The draft strategy…..if Texans draft WA at 2, they’re in no position to get Stroud…..the price to move up to get him would’ve been higher than the price they paid to move up to Anderson. So Caserio selected Stroud at 2….taking him off the board, which took QB’s off the board for the next few picks. Cardinals knew Ryans wanted Anderson, so they were in a position to shake the Texans down for a bit more. Both teams won b/c the Cardinals added draft capital and the Texans added what may be the DROY.
OK, so he was close.
But if I was the Texans GM, I would have traded everything I can for him, treating him as the no. 1 overall pick.
In that sense, Stellb would loose out because he did not value Mahomes as the franchise QB that he said in words only.
No matter how you want to see it, the Texans still pick their QB with their top pick.
I think they would be fine with Bryce as well.
The fact that they took the QB before the DE shows that they can't afford to risk losing out on the QB.
Jeez, so @steelbtexan correctly forecasts Mahomes as a franchise QB and correctly suggests a trade that is just about the exact same value of the trade that happened in real life, and that is still not good enough for you?
If you were the Texans GM, you would have apparently traded up for Trubisky, then, since the day after the draft (28 April, so I guess actually it was Day 2 of the draft) you listed your top 5 QBs as "Trubisky 1, Mahomes 2, Kizer 3, with Watson and Beathard following" (source).
Now, to your great credit, you were very vocal in multiple threads before and after that draft saying that Mahomes had the highest upside of any QB in the draft. Your trepidation (if we may call it that) seems to have been how attainable that ceiling was in the NFL- a very valid concern, and one that I am sure was shared by just about everyone.
This is a weird hypothetical, considering that the trade he proposed would have been good enough for the Texans to have picked Mahomes. Again, steelb suggested roughly the same trade (greater in value, in fact, by 2 slots in the first and third rounds) that the Chiefs pulled off. Nobody picked Mahomes before the slot steelb proposed drafting him. That is good enough for me to say he was on point in this matter.
You're beating your head against a wall. Thanks for going out and finding the posts that tell what I wanted RS to do.
He just really doesn't like me and I get it. Followed only more of his dislike to be proven wrong. The 1st time he admits he's wrong will be just that the 1st time.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It really was a boat load like that. They didn’t believe a defensive stud will be in the 2024 draft class. The Hershel Walker trade was a boat load.
Rather than admit he's wrong he'll just put @rmartin65 on ignore. If only you could be so lucky
Mahomes was always my number one.
It could be said that I was the one who introduced corrosion and steelbtexan to Mahomes.
What do you do with a number one?
Tell me.
I keep telling you that Mahomes was my number one.
And you know what I would do for a number one.
Both corrosion and steelb were never quite convinced.
I was the one who put Mahomes on their radar.
Nether was committed.
The most you have is a hyperthical trade to the 9th spot.
Tell me now, how would you trade for Caleb Williams.
Forgive me, but did you have a hard on for Mahomes like you do with Caleb Williams?
I wouldn't because they chose to draft Stroud. That ship has sailed.
You say this, but it is false. Here are a couple of posts of yours from before and after the draft-
Source (30 March 2017)
Source (5 April 2017)
Source (28 April 2017)
Source (4 May 2017)
Last edited:
Last edited:
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
So, the draft position and the team selecting the player have the biggest impact on their future success.
Take for instance Mahomes:
Chiefs draft him, sits him for a season of development, Reid modifies his offense to fit Mahomes skill set, and as they say....the rest is history.
Texans draft him, he's thrown in as starter Day1 behind a horrible OL and predictable offensive scheme, forced to play QB according to OB's vision and operate his scheme as drawn up, and as they say......Mahomes would've been a wasted pick b/c the Texans would've burned up another QB.
Good for Mahomes since he rewarded KC for having the willingness to trade up for his services.
As for Stroud, I really wish they'd be willing to develop him b/c his long term success is all I'd be interested in. I believe for the first time, the Texans have a staff in place that could get the best out of their drafted QB. I wouldn't be upset at all if they handed the reins to Keenum to start the season with Mills as the backup, while Stroud owns the headset and learns by observing and executing in practice. It could pay big dividends much like it did for Mahomes.
Take for instance Mahomes:
Chiefs draft him, sits him for a season of development, Reid modifies his offense to fit Mahomes skill set, and as they say....the rest is history.
Texans draft him, he's thrown in as starter Day1 behind a horrible OL and predictable offensive scheme, forced to play QB according to OB's vision and operate his scheme as drawn up, and as they say......Mahomes would've been a wasted pick b/c the Texans would've burned up another QB.
Good for Mahomes since he rewarded KC for having the willingness to trade up for his services.
As for Stroud, I really wish they'd be willing to develop him b/c his long term success is all I'd be interested in. I believe for the first time, the Texans have a staff in place that could get the best out of their drafted QB. I wouldn't be upset at all if they handed the reins to Keenum to start the season with Mills as the backup, while Stroud owns the headset and learns by observing and executing in practice. It could pay big dividends much like it did for Mahomes.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The biggest difference is KC was already established, a playoff contender and had a top level quarterback running the ship. But the main ingredient was the HC himself who is a mastermind OC. He just didn’t develop Mahomas but he developed all of his skilled players to fit his scheme. Just watch the magic he will pull out of Rashee Rice his second round pick.
CJ doesn’t have those types of luxuries brother.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
The Texans are not that far off. You have to trust the new staff, and if push came to shove....CK wouldn't be the worst veteran to take the reins to start the season. If anything, CK could help trouble shoot this new offense from the drivers seat.
Number19
Hall of Fame
CK will not under any circumstance start the season. If anyone other than Stroud, it would be Mills. Has CK even been cleared to practice after the injury to his leg?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Chiefs had the luxury of sitting Mahomes. As mentioned, they were already a playoff team with a good QB leading their charge. If they were a team like the Texans are now, Mahomes would have started day 1.
The quicker Stroud can slow the game down, the better he's going to be. I don't want to prolong that process by sitting him x amount of games. Let's get it rolling now in a season where there's not much expected so that next year when expectations should be higher, we'll be that much further along in the process. I don't want to start 2024 with a QB who sat and will have to still try to slow the game down.
Not that far off??? The Chiefs won 10+ games 4 times in the 5 years before Mahomes played, including winning the division the year he sat. The Texans have barely hit double digit wins combined the last 3 seasons. They are nowhere close to that.
No my number one QB was always Mahomes, from start to finish.
I discussed Trubisky as a guy who showed great tapes, but at times, I said he might not showed as well as Beathard.
I predicted where the QBs will land, just like they did.
But Mahomes was always number one.
So much so I never thought the Texans would have a chance at drafting him.
Because like I said, when there's a guy you think he's way up there, with a chance to be a generational talent, you do everything to try to get him.
I thought, man, whoever the GM is, they should take Mahomes instead of Trubisky.
The thing is, with his one year, Trubisky showed excellent tapes.
I wasn't convinced though.
Because there were much more to it.
Like when in certain posts, I had said, Trubisky may not be much or any better than Beathard.
I was the first one who pimped for Mahomes.
But I also said we need to keep our eyes and ears opened.
You're not going to get the top QB.
Just like when you think of Caleb Williams.
I said if he's all that, you will never get a chance to draft him.
I've already told you guys from the start that Mahomes was my guy.
Without me, maybe neither you nor corrosion even gave him the light of the day, given how Mahomes barely won at Tech .
Definitely doesn't fit your mantra of not winning the big game.
It was hard for him to even win the middle of the road games.
I did predicted pretty well how it's going down.
I even explained why.
I took noticed of one-year wonder and such.
When I said Mahomes is number one (early); there wasn't a doubt.
Did you notice that I had to try to convince people because Mahomes WL records at Tech was rather dismayed?
Sure I'm getting older.
But if it's just memory failing than it's OK. We're getting there sooner or later.
It's the thing about how you arrive there that matters.
You keep telling me that I'm not happy/satisfied until I'm somehow right.
Not true.
Sometimes I do steelb all the way.
It's a trip.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
This season, they seem to have a far more competent coaching staff, what appears to be a better offensive scheme brought over from the 49'ers, and a savvy veteran QB who was part of a Vikings squad that played for the NFC Championship. This really seems like a first for the Texans b/c even when considering Schaub's years....the team never had a #2 pick QB in the wings.
So the Texans are in a position to do this another way versus their historically failed way of developing QB's. Like I stated, let a veteran (Keenum or Mills) have the reins until they see how this offense is gelling overall. I'd almost be inclined to get Stroud out there once Howard is ready to hit the field as the starting RT. I want Stroud to be the answer for the long-term, not develop bad habits he didn't possess at Ohio State while running for his life trying to make things happen. Somewhere along the line, I've heard that old saying, "patience is a virtue".....Texans could be well served heeding that simple advice.
Last edited:
I see there is no point in having this discussion with you; I provided you with your own posts (and the links to them) so you can see that you are not representing the past correctly, but you seem to just be ignoring them. There is nothing in your posts from around that draft to indicate that you had Mahomes ranked as the #1 QB in the draft. You did note that he had the most upside, but you still had Trubisky ranked higher (the 28 April and 4 May posts clearly show this).
The thing that bothers me about this is that I think you are a great evaluator of talent. You clearly watch the games, you provide support for your opinions, etc. I don't think you just read rankings and regurgitate them in a slightly different order. You were even right in saying that Mahomes has great potential. But, in my opinion, attempting to re-write the past is a bad look, especially when I'm providing you with the receipts.
In any case, I've wasted enough time with this discussion.
I kept telling you that you need to look further.
I always have the receipt.
In many posts during the evaluation process, I did say that, yes, we're still looking into their game tapes.
I don't know why you don't get this.
Steelb never saw Mahomes better than a no. 9 pick.
I saw him as the top QB, which is essentially the no. 1 overall pick; especially because there was no other guy I even mentioned like Julius Peppers or Mario Williams.
I had gone for these defensive players over a supposedly franchise QB before.
Steelb, I repeat, never ever pimped for Mahomes the way he's been pimping for Caleb Williams, and that's the first key here.
I don't know why you even defend him for claiming that his eval of Mahomes was great or whatever.
No. 9 is far from a franchise QB, especially when we all know we have to pay premium to find out.
If you have the receipt (whatever that means) show it or shut up
I even talked about Russell Wilson vs. Andrew Luck and RG III.
I said I'm not sure the other two guys would have a better career than Wilson.
It was quickly proven because Wilson knows how to protect himself more than either Luck or RG 3.
During the evaluation process, I did say that nothing is firm; that you need to continue with the process.
It's a bit sad, but I never gave a good eval of any UH QB until Keenum, whom I gave an outside chance to make it.
He was close, but not quite accurate.
Show the proof.
Because I haven't seen any proof. I see posts with you having Mahomes 2nd, behind Trubisky. The posts closest to the draft, on either side of it.
We don't know that, but he did in fact (correctly) identify that the 9th pick would be enough to land Mahomes, and suggested a potential trade that likely would have been enough to get that pick. Sure, he didn't identify Mahomes as a HoF guy; nobody in the NFL did either, apparently, and neither did anybody on this board.
Show the proof, please. I see you saying that he has the most upside, but your posts from around the draft either have him at number 2 behind Trubisky (while noting his upside) or in the same tier as Trubisky (though I think always after Trubisky in the list)
Ok? I've never said you hadn't.
Ok? I never said he had.
He correctly identified Mahomes as worthy of a top-10 pick, and correctly identified the correct range he would go in. You took a shot at him for being unable to scout QBs, and I am pointing out that he did pretty well with Mahomes.
Mahomes is a franchise QB and he went 10th. Brady was a franchise QB and he went in the 6th round. You don't have to pay a premium, but paying a premium certainly raises your odds of finding one.
It's a way to say proof. We got some new (read: young, mid-20s) people at work and they keep saying it, and apparently it has found its way into my lexicon.
Last edited:
Literally none of this pertains to the discussion we are having.
Care to bring up this post?
Even if true I do my own evals and you would be one of the last people who I would trust evals. You might have a slight case of narcissistic tendencies in addition to memory loss if you think I follow you.
Now if you said that you were the 1st guy on Keenum I would agree with you.
No you weren't, that's a straight up lie.
You may not be able to draft Williams, but if Mills is as bad as some on this MB make him out to be, then they should be picking in the range of Williams, Maye, McCarthy. Oh well all of this is water under the bridge and I hope I'm wrong about Stroud.
You are the only person in the world including McCarthy with the other two QBs.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I need to see another year from McCarthy before I consider him a first-rounder. Today, I have Shedeur Sanders in the discussion with Williams and Maye, and Sanders could be my #1 in December. My opinion could also change by December.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
holy shiza....have yall not run out of piss yet??? this ridiculous pissing contest is still going on???
I stay hydrated.
2C e
For you to even ask for proof, it only means you're not aware of Things.
The "problems" with you not being in the regular grind is just that
Do you really want to go get into this?