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Davis Mills getting no respect

leebigeztx said:
You remember the oline Watson was playing behind when posters said sacks were on him for holding the ball? I don't care if my qb holds the ball and take sacks being a playmaker vs holding the ball taking sacks because you're scared to turn the ball loose.
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I dont have much of a problem with it either ……..if you’re holding the ball while pressing the LOS looking to pass it down field & taking off to run if its just not there…kinda like Mahomes does…

Problem with DW4 was he wasnt pressing the LOS alot of the times..he was dancing behind it and not running alot of times when he could.
 
Mr teX said:
Allen’s “decent” year he had decent starters on his team..especially on defense. 2 pro bowlers and a few all-pros…he wont have anything close to that with this team.
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I agree that he may struggle here & that's why I'm thinking it's a good thing to start him. Then, the real problems can be exposed. And, I'm not sure why you would think Washington having a strong defense could help Allen's play on offense.
 
Hottoddie said:
I agree that he may struggle here & that's why I'm thinking it's a good thing to start him. Then, the real problems can be exposed. And, I'm not sure why you would think Washington having a strong defense could help Allen's play on offense.
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?
 
Mr teX said:
lol..yeah…but you were also advocating we throw money at Daryl Williams to play guard for us b/c he had a good PFF grade in 2020 for the panthers….that guy is currently not even playing the NFL anymore so….what gives pancakes…:mcclain:
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Uh.. IHOP?
 
Texansballer74 said:
He’s not playing lol Q has been the starting center
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I know.

But the point still stands.

I didn't think Britt can be of much help.
Injury and Covid and everything.
Steelbtexan thought it would be good to have veterans to tutor the youngsters.

Which youngsters were there to be tutor?

Cannon and Britt were just waste of space.

Which youngster(s) are going to be there when the Texans get past the rebuilding stage?
 
@Mr teX
The main point for me is that a rebuilding is better served with younger bloods, not guys who might be out of the league in a year or two.

Especially when you "now" said that it would take awhile.

In that case, neither Cannon nor Britt serve any purpose.
 
Mr teX said:
Except he also had 1000 yard season with Mills throwing him the ball last year too. Imo He’s taken a step back this year b/c he cant beat doubles as a true #1. There’s a reason he has continued to get traded…He’s never been able to consistently be that true threat anywhere he’s gone
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Poor qb play has a huge affect on wr play. Saints drafted him and once they traded him for a 1st rd pick, they no longer had anyone to take the top off. He played well in NE, but they didn't like paying wrs as we know and traded him to Rams had a really good season and an injury plagued season and was traded for a 2nd rd pick. Productive season with Watson and Mills even though his ypc went down with Mills. Cooks is not a 1a roll coverage type of wr, but he gets seperation, pretty reliable and with every qb he's played with, he's been 1000 yds, 14ypc and 6 tds. His number are down because Mills has been terrible this year regardless of how you spin it.
 
76Texan said:
Hey my bad.
Still a good dart rather than going back to the past.

Who knew he will go through injuries.

Darrel Williams Injury History & Updates

Darrel Williams Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries
www.draftsharks.com
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read my post at 110 or so in the same thread. EVERYONE knew this except you…he was injury prone just like Britt was..you just tried to downplay his to win the debate.
 
76Texan said:
I know.

But the point still stands.

I didn't think Britt can be of much help.
Injury and Covid and everything.
Steelbtexan thought it would be good to have veterans to tutor the youngsters.

Which youngsters were there to be tutor?

Cannon and Britt were just waste of space.

Which youngster(s) are going to be there when the Texans get past the rebuilding stage?
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Yep, old guys getting their last check. Kirkskey,Burkhead,Britt, David Johnson who they actually gave more money to vs cutting him.
 
leebigeztx said:
Poor qb play has a huge affect on wr play. Saints drafted him and once they traded him for a 1st rd pick, they no longer had anyone to take the top off. He played well in NE, but they didn't like paying wrs as we know and traded him to Rams had a really good season and an injury plagued season and was traded for a 2nd rd pick. Productive season with Watson and Mills even though his ypc went down with Mills. Cooks is not a 1a roll coverage type of wr, but he gets seperation, pretty reliable and with every qb he's played with, he's been 1000 yds, 14ypc and 6 tds. His number are down because Mills has been terrible this year regardless of how you spin it.
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Mills may be terrible..but that dont explain away Cooks’ struggle this year. his numbers are down b/c he cant beat doubles as a true go-to #1…which is what he is being asked to be for really the 1st time in his career here. big DB’s can cover his little ass up or muscle him up at the LOS…smaller quicker dbs can run with him… Eventually teams he’s played on find that out and they jettison him.
 
ben.aires.smith said:
That's a bunch of B.S. Cooks looked just fine last year with Mills throwing him the ball. Typical Brandin Cooks type season, an in fact, 2021 was the most receptions he ever had in one season. The truth is, a confluence of factors is the reason why Mills has statistically regressed, including himself. So if he did it last year, you're saying that Mills was not capable of doing in again in 2022??
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Look at his yards per catch the last 2 yrs with Mills vs the rest of his career. Why do you think its almost 3 ypc lower than when he played with Watson? You you said the team is running Cooks down the field too much, yet his ypc resembles that of a slot wr or a te.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Brandin Cooks Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Brandin Cooks. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
 
76Texan said:
The point still stands about Britt and Cannon being mentor to nobody.
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That was never the discussion in this thread & the point also still stands that your suggestion wouldve been just as disastrous as the Britt signing..so stop patting yourself on your back. Hell your suggestion could’ve actually wound up worse for us depending on the type of money we would’ve given Williams.
 
Mr teX said:
Mills may be terrible..but that dont explain away Cooks’ struggle this year. his numbers are down b/c he cant beat doubles as a true go-to #1…which is what he is being asked to be for really the 1st time in his career here. big DB’s can cover his little ass up or muscle him up at the LOS…smaller quicker dbs can run with him… Eventually teams he’s played on find that out and they jettison him.
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He was never meant to beat double teams and nobody has ever thought of Cooks in that regard period. He's a guy who can play x,y,and z, get open and can run by people,but is a really good route runner. There are maybe 6 or 7 wrs in the nfl who can beat double teams and he's not 1 of them. That's why teams try to have multiple threats in their receiver corps. The problem is easy to see that even when there are big chances to get big plays, Mills is locking up and not throwing the ball. We went over this with in route that was designed through progression for Collins and the sure shot td he had to Cooks vs Philly. He's missing nfl progression throws consistently that has nothing to do with anyone else.
 
Mr teX said:
That was never the discussion in this thread & the point also still stands that your suggestion wouldve been just as disastrous as the Britt signing..so stop patting yourself on your back. Hell your suggestion could’ve actually wound up worse for us depending on the type of money we would’ve given Williams.
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You can't never predict future injury.
You can only hope that the guy who hasn't been susceptible to injury to continue his trend.
 
leebigeztx said:
Look at his yards per catch the last 2 yrs with Mills vs the rest of his career. Why do you think its almost 3 ypc lower than when he played with Watson? You you said the team is running Cooks down the field too much, yet his ypc resembles that of a slot wr or a te.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Brandin Cooks Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Brandin Cooks. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
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First of all, I never said they are running Cooks down the field too much. And 2nd, Cooks YPC lowered a little but he had a record amount of catches, which even out to a typical Cooks year. There was no material drop off in Cooks performance last year on aggregate, and that's a fact. So why are you blaming Mills exclusively for Cooks poor play this year? It makes no sense. Have you considered that Cooks is or has regressed, and that he might be part of the problem also, along with Mills and other factors?

The problem with your arguments is that your negative bias on Mills is so strong, you can't consider other possibilities of Mills poorish performance overall. Truth is, it's Mills/Pep/terrible interior OL/subpar talent stew that's causing the shitshow we're currently witnessing. We'll know to what degree after Allen gets a couple games to maneuver.
 
leebigeztx said:
He was never meant to beat double teams and nobody has ever thought of Cooks in that regard period. He's a guy who can play x,y,and z, get open and can run by people,but is a really good route runner. There are maybe 6 or 7 wrs in the nfl who can beat double teams and he's not 1 of them. That's why teams try to have multiple threats in their receiver corps. The problem is easy to see that even when there are big chances to get big plays, Mills is locking up and not throwing the ball. We went over this with in route that was designed through progression for Collins and the sure shot td he had to Cooks vs Philly. He's missing nfl progression throws consistently that has nothing to do with anyone else.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I never hated or disliked Mills.

He's never the guy.

The failure is on Nick Caserio.
If he wanted to tank, he could have waited longer.

Mills made no strategic sense to me.

For a GM to draft him in the third round was just a shot in the dark.

Mills never showed any quality in college.
A developmental QB is best not drafted before the fourth round.
 
leebigeztx said:
He was never meant to beat double teams and nobody has ever thought of Cooks in that regard period. He's a guy who can play x,y,and z, get open and can run by people,but is a really good route runner. There are maybe 6 or 7 wrs in the nfl who can beat double teams and he's not 1 of them. That's why teams try to have multiple threats in their receiver corps. The problem is easy to see that even when there are big chances to get big plays, Mills is locking up and not throwing the ball. We went over this with in route that was designed through progression for Collins and the sure shot td he had to Cooks vs Philly. He's missing nfl progression throws consistently that has nothing to do with anyone else.
Click to expand...

kinda my point..he was never meant to be that guy everywhere he’s been..until he got here. It’s inexplicable that he can put up the same numbers hes always put up with Mills in 1 year and then “regress” the next year with the same guy unless the coverage he’s seeing is different. See Burrow and Chase as an example. All his numbers will be down from what he did last year & His YPR is nowhere close to what it was last year…does that mean Burrow now sucks?

Everywhere else he’s been he’s also had someone else to take the pressure off him..whether it was Colston, Gronk or Robert Woods…that is until he got here. His targets as the season has gone on tells the story. Early in the year he was getting double digit targets. After the 2nd game, his targets went down to single digit…so is it TEALLY b/c of Mills that his targets went down….or is it b/c the offense has changed its focus from him….or is it that the coverage being shaded his way on doubles necessitates the qb go elsewhere with the ball.

Teams are covering his little ass up and forcing Mills to throw to other guys. These last 2 games we’ve seen Mills try to for e it to him and has been rewarded with picks.
 
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76Texan said:
To be honest, I never hated or disliked Mills.

He's never the guy.

The failure is on Nick Caserio.
If he wanted to tank, he could have waited longer.

Mills made no strategic sense to me.

For a GM to draft him in the third round was just a shot in the dark.

Mills never showed any quality in college.
A developmental QB is best not drafted before the fourth round.
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A qb in that draft made good sense considering our situation with dw. Was mills the right guy? Questionable.
 
powda said:
If memory serves there was a run on qbs before us. I don't remember anyone hating us for selecting mills extremely early. He was generally regarded to be worth that area.

I loved the pick as a hedge against dw. Even if he bombs.
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And well, he is bombing.
 
powda said:
And well, he is bombing.
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If you remember he didn't look very good his first few starts last year and then after sitting and watching Taylor run it he came back strong at the end of the year. Perhaps after sitting and watching Allen a few games he can come back strong again
 
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JB said:
If you remember he didn't look very good his first few starts last year and then after sitting and watching Taylor run it he csme back strong at the end of the year. Perhaps after sitting and watching Allen a few games he can come back strong again
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Hope so. Even if Pep can't salvage him, maybe a new oc can next year?
 
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leebigeztx said:
Look at his yards per catch the last 2 yrs with Mills vs the rest of his career. Why do you think its almost 3 ypc lower than when he played with Watson? You you said the team is running Cooks down the field too much, yet his ypc resembles that of a slot wr or a te.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Brandin Cooks Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Brandin Cooks. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com
Click to expand...
Cooks has had ALOT of drops this year.
 
JB said:
If you remember he didn't look very good his first few starts last year and then after sitting and watching Taylor run it he csme back strong at the end of the year. Perhaps after sitting and watching Allen a few games he can come back strong again
Click to expand...
Tim Kelly had Tyrod looking like a pro bowler until he got hurt. Pep on the other hand lol I doubt would have obtained the same results.
 
Mr teX said:
kinda my point..he was never meant to be that guy everywhere he’s been..until he got here. It’s inexplicable that he can put up the same numbers hes always put up with Mills in 1 year and then “regress” the next year with the same guy unless the coverage he’s seeing is different. See Burrow and Chase as an example. All his numbers will be down from what he did last year & His YPR is nowhere close to what it was last year…does that mean Burrow now sucks?

Everywhere else he’s been he’s also had someone else to take the pressure off him..whether it was Colston, Gronk or Robert Woods…that is until he got here. His targets as the season has gone on tells the story. Early in the year he was getting double digit targets. After the 2nd game, his targets went down to single digit…so is it TEALLY b/c of Mills that his targets went down….or is it b/c the offense has changed its focus from him….or is it that the coverage being shaded his way on doubles necessitates the qb go elsewhere with the ball.

Teams are covering his little ass up and forcing Mills to throw to other guys. These last 2 games we’ve seen Mills try to for e it to him and has been rewarded with picks.
Click to expand...
Colston was washed by the time he got to NO. Robert Woods was never a coverage dictator either. Gronk , I give you that. Who was the # 1 when he was here with Fuller? What about his ypc being the lowest since his rookie year?
 
ben.aires.smith said:
First of all, I never said they are running Cooks down the field too much. And 2nd, Cooks YPC lowered a little but he had a record amount of catches, which even out to a typical Cooks year. There was no material drop off in Cooks performance last year on aggregate, and that's a fact. So why are you blaming Mills exclusively for Cooks poor play this year? It makes no sense. Have you considered that Cooks is or has regressed, and that he might be part of the problem also, along with Mills and other factors?

The problem with your arguments is that your negative bias on Mills is so strong, you can't consider other possibilities of Mills poorish performance overall. Truth is, it's Mills/Pep/terrible interior OL/subpar talent stew that's causing the shitshow we're currently witnessing. We'll know to what degree after Allen gets a couple games to maneuver.
Click to expand...
Facts are facts. Cooks ypc are the lowest in his career except his rookie year. Mills is missing easy reads and progressions that has 0 to do with the play call. Hell, how many times have we watched him throw the ball and the wr doesn't even have a chance. He has no feel in the pocket nor for the game, until its pretty much over. Everyone blaming everyone but the qb play. Its what it is, he's been Osweiler bad.
 
leebigeztx said:
Facts are facts. Cooks ypc are the lowest in his career except his rookie year. Mills is missing easy reads and progressions that has 0 to do with the play call. Hell, how many times have we watched him throw the ball and the wr doesn't even have a chance. He has no feel in the pocket nor for the game, until its pretty much over. Everyone blaming everyone but the qb play. Its what it is, he's been Osweiler bad.
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No one is playing well behind this OL. Period. Allen is going to come in and possibly get hurt the way they are playing.
 
leebigeztx said:
Facts are facts. Cooks ypc are the lowest in his career except his rookie year. Mills is missing easy reads and progressions that has 0 to do with the play call. Hell, how many times have we watched him throw the ball and the wr doesn't even have a chance. He has no feel in the pocket nor for the game, until its pretty much over. Everyone blaming everyone but the qb play. Its what it is, he's been Osweiler bad.
Click to expand...
Facts are facts. Cooks had the most receptions ever in 2021 and another 1000 yard season. Just stop.
 
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