Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Davis Mills getting no respect

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Colston was washed by the time he got to NO. Robert Woods was never a coverage dictator either. Gronk , I give you that. Who was the # 1 when he was here with Fuller? What about his ypc being the lowest since his rookie year?
Colston still caught 100 balls in Cooks’ rookie year. By his 2nd and 3rd years in NO they were trying to feature him as the #1 with Colston near the end…but it wasnt really working and they went 7-9 both years..even with that he still had a couple of off brand guys like Willie Snead and Brandon Watson that were nearly as productive as him in those years…and then Thomas came along and gave them true #1 production and coverage dictation as a rookie…& that was it for Cooks there.

both Robert Woods and Gronk caught more balls than he did in his time in LA and NE…seems like both were valued as more coverage of coverage dictators than Cooks was.

Then he gets here and we’re asking him to be that #1 target in our passing attack and coverage dictator…..& he’s just not that. DC’s just dont fear him like that. and really never have…teams feel like if they’ve got a cb good enough, they’re perfectly comfortable singling him all game..if you don’t, they just shade the safety over him a little bit and its pretty much a wrap…This is why he’s never been to a pro bowl…or been an all-pro…or even why his own peers have never voted him in that top 100 thing they do every year…

I think his YPC are down here b/c he’s been taken off point as the #1 feature guy…its been reflected in the number of targets and in the types of routes he’s now being asked to primarily run..which arent those take the top off routes he has traditionally run..
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JB

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Colston still caught 100 balls in Cooks’ rookie year. By his 2nd and 3rd years in NO they were trying to feature him as the #1 with Colston near the end…but it wasnt really working and they went 7-9 both years..even with that he still had a couple of off brand guys like Willie Snead and Brandon Watson that were nearly as productive as him in those years…and then Thomas came along and gave them true #1 production and coverage dictation as a rookie…& that was it for Cooks there.

both Robert Woods and Gronk caught more balls than he did in his time in LA and NE…seems like both were valued as more coverage of coverage dictators than Cooks was.

Then he gets here and we’re asking him to be that #1 target in our passing attack and coverage dictator…..& he’s just not that. DC’s just dont fear him like that. and really never have…teams feel like if they’ve got a cb good enough, they’re perfectly comfortable singling him all game..if you don’t, they just shade the safety over him a little bit and its pretty much a wrap…This is why he’s never been to a pro bowl…or been an all-pro…or even why his own peers have never voted him in that top 100 thing they do every year…

I think his YPC are down here b/c he’s been taken off point as the #1 feature guy…its been reflected in the number of targets and in the types of routes he’s now being asked to primarily run..which arent those take the top off routes he has traditionally run..
Robert Woods wasn't and never have been a double team beater nor coverage dictator. We all know that McVeigh scheme frees up players. I mean we just watched Kupp whom you couldn't double because of the formation sets. Again, I give you Gronk, he's a 1st ballot. In NO, nobody was doubling Colston once Cooks got there and even then. If I remember correctly, Wasn't Jimmy Graham in that equation somewhere. Cooks has always been keep a safety over the top type of wr that allows him to use his route running to work underneath also. That's why he's been 15,16 ypc type of wr. Is he going to catch 130 passes? Probably not. Ideally, if the Texans weren't so goofy, he shouldn't been playing with Hopkins vs traded for a pick to replace Hopkins. Dallas was willing to give up a 2nd this year for him, but Carsterio wanted a 2nd,4th,and salary that killed the deal.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Most catches Cooks ever had in his career, another 1000 yard season. Mills delivered last season. This season, probably a combo of the two are off. those are facts.
11 ypc, lowest since his rookie year because the qb won't throw the ball when the play design schemed him open. Are you not watching the games or the all 22? Look here, you have a happy holidays because i"m not going to argue about a bad backup qb. Who does that?
 
11 ypc, lowest since his rookie year because the qb won't throw the ball when the play design schemed him open. Are you not watching the games or the all 22? Look here, you have a happy holidays because i"m not going to argue about a bad backup qb. Who does that?
Stop spouting BS. Cooks had a normal Cooks year last year: YPC was down, but totals catches were up and 1000 yards receiving cleared. Cooks was as effective as normal. End of story.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Robert Woods wasn't and never have been a double team beater nor coverage dictator. We all know that McVeigh scheme frees up players. I mean we just watched Kupp whom you couldn't double because of the formation sets. Again, I give you Gronk, he's a 1st ballot. In NO, nobody was doubling Colston once Cooks got there and even then. If I remember correctly, Wasn't Jimmy Graham in that equation somewhere. Cooks has always been keep a safety over the top type of wr that allows him to use his route running to work underneath also. That's why he's been 15,16 ypc type of wr. Is he going to catch 130 Dallas was willing to give up a 2nd this year for him, but Carsterio wanted a 2nd,4th,and salary that killed the deal.
But Woods was regarded as more of a threat than Cooks was…..the numbers bear that out. & with Kupp emerging, he was made more expendable…which is why they moved on from him. furthermore none of this changes the fact that he’s not & never has been regarded as a #1 WR throughout his career until he got here….the numbers and the fact that he’s been traded around so much ALSO bears that out. the rest of what you’re saying about what Dallas was willing to give up is just rumors.. its more likely that 18 million contract extension prevented him from being traded more than anything than teams being unwilling to part with a 4th round pick…..that is if they were reportedly willing to give up the 2nd. If he was that good the trade would’ve gone thru and some kind of renegotiation of his remaining guaranteed money could’ve happened with Dallas.
 

Earl34

All Pro
There’s absolutely no point in benching Mills at this point in time. Because Allen is not going to do any better. Also, as a GM it is Caserio’s job to help his QB. Has he?
We will have to wait and see. During training camp and preseason, there were reports that Allen was executing and throwing the ball better than Mills.

After the last game when the offense couldn't even generate 10 yards at half time. The bar is set so low right now. If Allen leads the team to multiple first downs in the first quarter, he will be doing better than Mills.
 

djohn2oo8

All Pro
We will have to wait and see. During training camp and preseason, there were reports that Allen was executing and throwing the ball better than Mills.

After the last game when the offense couldn't even generate 10 yards at half time. The bar is set so low right now. If Allen leads the team to multiple first downs in the first quarter, he will be doing better than Mills.
Last game Mills had times where he held the ball too long, but he also had moments where the defense rushed 4 and were in his chest very quickly. I’m disappointed in the C and G positions.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We will have to wait and see. During training camp and preseason, there were reports that Allen was executing and throwing the ball better than Mills.
I didn't like the pick & said so at the time. I understood where the team was & the need to get a QB. But with our highest pick? I didn't think that was prudent. That's not taking a flyer.

That's saying you know something about this guy no one else knows & you have a plan to make him successful.

Granted they didn't expect him starting from week 3 of the season, but they made him the backup behind an injury prone QB. So if not week 3, they were thinking soon.

Looking back with hindsight I'm not impressed with their plan


After the last game when the offense couldn't even generate 10 yards at half time. The bar is set so low right now. If Allen leads the team to multiple first downs in the first quarter, he will be doing better than Mills.
If Miami's front 4 is dictating the LOS like they've done the last couple of games I might be impressed if Allen can move the offense. But if Pierce breaks 100 yards, I'm going to give credit to who credit is due.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Last game Mills had times where he held the ball too long, but he also had moments where the defense rushed 4 and were in his chest very quickly. I’m disappointed in the C and G positions.
I've been impressed with Quessenberry since the preseason. He was flat out bad against the Eagles & the Giants but was not a problem against Washington. Well maybe he made some bad calls but I don't remember seeing him getting whupped
 

Earl34

All Pro
I've been impressed with Quessenberry since the preseason. He was flat out bad against the Eagles & the Giants but was not a problem against Washington. Well maybe he made some bad calls but I don't remember seeing him getting whupped
I've not been impressed with Quessenberry. I'm so unimpressed. I really can't believe I'm typing this, but I think he's a downgrade from Nick Martin.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
But Woods was regarded as more of a threat than Cooks was…..the numbers bear that out. & with Kupp emerging, he was made more expendable…which is why they moved on from him. furthermore none of this changes the fact that he’s not & never has been regarded as a #1 WR throughout his career until he got here….the numbers and the fact that he’s been traded around so much ALSO bears that out. the rest of what you’re saying about what Dallas was willing to give up is just rumors.. its more likely that 18 million contract extension prevented him from being traded more than anything than teams being unwilling to part with a 4th round pick…..that is if they were reportedly willing to give up the 2nd. If he was that good the trade would’ve gone thru and some kind of renegotiation of his remaining guaranteed money could’ve happened with Dallas.
Woods had 0 1000 yard seasons in 5 yrs before he got to the Rams.How was he deemed the bigger threat? Cooks was traded because he was one concussion away from retirement and BOB was offering a 2nd rd pick. I outlined his trades and that doesn't really mean alot. Shaq was traded alot, so was Jason Kidd. Patriots dont pay wrs and NO didn't want to move the traffic cone/salary cap to pay Cooks. The debate about him being a true number 1, thats known, but as stated, there are only about 7 of those guys in the entire nfl.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Haskins had a maturity issue. Have you read or watched anything that states Stroud is immature. Look at his journey and his humbleness. He didn't even get recognition until his junior year, no offers. Dude flew to Ohio St after playing a game and still had tape on his ankles and such. If every qb out of the program lined up equally based on the non productive dudes, we wouldn't have Rodgers, Hurts,Tua,Brady,Kelly,Mahomes,Good Russell Wilson, or a litany of qbs. I know its hard, but you have to evaluate every prospect against themselves and their tape,not another player.
Stroud isn't worth 1-1 IMHO

He's certainly not special or have special traits that would make him worth 1-1. IMHO

Of course no QB in this class is worth 1-1 IMHO
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I know.

But the point still stands.

I didn't think Britt can be of much help.
Injury and Covid and everything.
Steelbtexan thought it would be good to have veterans to tutor the youngsters.

Which youngsters were there to be tutor?

Cannon and Britt were just waste of space.

Which youngster(s) are going to be there when the Texans get past the rebuilding stage?
Green
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Poor qb play has a huge affect on wr play. Saints drafted him and once they traded him for a 1st rd pick, they no longer had anyone to take the top off. He played well in NE, but they didn't like paying wrs as we know and traded him to Rams had a really good season and an injury plagued season and was traded for a 2nd rd pick. Productive season with Watson and Mills even though his ypc went down with Mills. Cooks is not a 1a roll coverage type of wr, but he gets seperation, pretty reliable and with every qb he's played with, he's been 1000 yds, 14ypc and 6 tds. His number are down because Mills has been terrible this year regardless of how you spin it.
And Cooks doesn't want to be here.
 

wildroot

Rookie
Sometimes I feel like this whole season has been scripted by Caserio and Lovie to get that #1 pick while at the same time showing flashes of brilliance at the QB position, then folding it in to eventually loose.
There have been times this season where Mills has looked really good, but then inexplicably and on cue either he or someone else does something to cost us the game or Pep shuts down the offense.
OJ Howard comes in and has a career game then disappears. It's a one-way ticket to the bench. We know what we have, we'll use you when we want to actually win the game. Meanwhile you sit while we build this team up. Once we get the roster to where we want it and we can start contending, you'll be back in the lineup.
Just a thought.
 
Last edited:

Hottoddie

Veteran
First of all, I never said they are running Cooks down the field too much. And 2nd, Cooks YPC lowered a little but he had a record amount of catches, which even out to a typical Cooks year. There was no material drop off in Cooks performance last year on aggregate, and that's a fact. So why are you blaming Mills exclusively for Cooks poor play this year? It makes no sense. Have you considered that Cooks is or has regressed, and that he might be part of the problem also, along with Mills and other factors?

The problem with your arguments is that your negative bias on Mills is so strong, you can't consider other possibilities of Mills poorish performance overall. Truth is, it's Mills/Pep/terrible interior OL/subpar talent stew that's causing the shitshow we're currently witnessing. We'll know to what degree after Allen gets a couple games to maneuver.
EXACTLY!!!
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Stroud isn't worth 1-1 IMHO

He's certainly not special or have special traits that would make him worth 1-1. IMHO

Of course no QB in this class is worth 1-1 IMHO
Williams nor Ewers nor Maye throws the ball better than Stroud. Stroud has a quicker release than all, Williams is the better athlete. Ewers is incomplete. So you like Maye from NC, same place where Trubisky played at and put up numbers, but hold it against Stroud because of the failures of previous Ohio State qbs. We also know the failure of USC qb's like Linehart,Sam Darnold, and Matt Barkley, but you never bring those guys up, just Stroud.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Williams nor Ewers nor Maye throws the ball better than Stroud. Stroud has a quicker release than all, Williams is the better athlete. Ewers is incomplete. So you like Maye from NC, same place where Trubisky played at and put up numbers, but hold it against Stroud because of the failures of previous Ohio State qbs. We also know the failure of USC qb's like Linehart,Sam Darnold, and Matt Barkley, but you never bring those guys up, just Stroud.
LOL

Go back and checkout the Northwestern/Penn St./Iowa/Maryland games and get back with me. Top 15 QB in the NFL at best.
 

Hottoddie

Veteran
Cook's catch vs. targets % from Next Gen Stats through 2016.

2016 New Orleans (Drew Brees)
78 catches
117 targets
66.67%

2017 New England (Tom Brady)
65 catches
114 targets
57.02%

2018 LA Rams (Jared Goff)
80 catches
117 targets
68.38%

2019 LA Rams (Jared Goff)
42 catches
72 targets
58.33%

2020 Houston (Deshaun Watson)
81 catches
119 targets
68.07%

2021 Houston (Taylor/Mills)
90 catches
134 targets
67.16%

2022 Houston (through 10 games) (Davis Mills)
39 catches
66 targets
59.09%

I'm not sure if this is a big enough sample to really show anything, but it looks like Cook's catch percentage drops off noticeably after his first year with a new team (or quarterback) for whatever reason. The exception here is his time with Houston where he had two great seasons (three different QB's) back to back before this year. In any event, it shows a pattern of his completion percentage dropping off after his first season. For what it matters.

 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
LOL

Go back and checkout the Northwestern/Penn St./Iowa/Maryland games and get back with me. Top 15 QB in the NFL at best.
Go check out Utah vs USC when he had cleary better talent and look how many times he was running around with the ball vs throwing strikes. See, I can be objective regardless of the prospect. I like Williams alot, I just don't see the separation in talent between he and Stroud other than Williams being a better foot athlete. Listening to you long enough, you've stated that a team can't win with a qb who runs. Well, CJ is a much more polished passer. His arm is just as strong, has a quicker release also,and is a pocket passer with mobility. Does he have flaws? Yep, like every prospect who has ever come out of college. Does Williams have flaws? Yes he does, he is a playmaker and holds the ball for a while. He's playing in the most qb friendly offense probably in the country and the playcaller has helped produced multiple Heisman guys. Is that a negative or positive? He's also throwing to the wr who won the wr of the year award last season.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Cook's catch vs. targets % from Next Gen Stats through 2016.

2016 New Orleans (Drew Brees)
78 catches
117 targets
66.67%

2017 New England (Tom Brady)
65 catches
114 targets
57.02%

2018 LA Rams (Jared Goff)
80 catches
117 targets
68.38%

2019 LA Rams (Jared Goff)
42 catches
72 targets
58.33%

2020 Houston (Deshaun Watson)
81 catches
119 targets
68.07%

2021 Houston (Taylor/Mills)
90 catches
134 targets
67.16%

2022 Houston (through 10 games) (Davis Mills)
39 catches
66 targets
59.09%

I'm not sure if this is a big enough sample to really show anything, but it looks like Cook's catch percentage drops off noticeably after his first year with a new team (or quarterback) for whatever reason. The exception here is his time with Houston where he had two great seasons (three different QB's) back to back before this year. In any event, it shows a pattern of his completion percentage dropping off after his first season. For what it matters.

In Houston the last 2 years, his ypc has been shaved because of the qb not pushing the ball. His last year in LA, he had concussion issues, thats why they took a 2nd rd pick for him. NO got a 1st rd pick because the were cash strapped and NE got a 1st rd pick for him because they don't pay wr's
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Go check out Utah vs USC when he had cleary better talent and look how many times he was running around with the ball vs throwing strikes. See, I can be objective regardless of the prospect. I like Williams alot, I just don't see the separation in talent between he and Stroud other than Williams being a better foot athlete. Listening to you long enough, you've stated that a team can't win with a qb who runs. Well, CJ is a much more polished passer. His arm is just as strong, has a quicker release also,and is a pocket passer with mobility. Does he have flaws? Yep, like every prospect who has ever come out of college. Does Williams have flaws? Yes he does, he is a playmaker and holds the ball for a while. He's playing in the most qb friendly offense probably in the country and the playcaller has helped produced multiple Heisman guys. Is that a negative or positive? He's also throwing to the wr who won the wr of the year award last season.
Give me Williams any day over Stroud. Williams reminds me of a slightly lesser Mahomes/Allen. Stroud reminds me of a lesser Ryan/Wentz/Goff A good QB but not worth 1-1.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
In Houston the last 2 years, his ypc has been shaved because of the qb not pushing the ball. His last year in LA, he had concussion issues, thats why they took a 2nd rd pick for him. NO got a 1st rd pick because the were cash strapped and NE got a 1st rd pick for him because they don't pay wr's
Or he's being used differently.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
Williams nor Ewers nor Maye throws the ball better than Stroud. Stroud has a quicker release than all, Williams is the better athlete. Ewers is incomplete. So you like Maye from NC, same place where Trubisky played at and put up numbers, but hold it against Stroud because of the failures of previous Ohio State qbs. We also know the failure of USC qb's like Linehart,Sam Darnold, and Matt Barkley, but you never bring those guys up, just Stroud.
Trubisky had exactly one season as a starter before entering the draft….2 more starts than Mills. Maye will definitely have two complete seasons and roughly 24 CFB starts before the 2024 NFL Draft. He’s going to get even better barring any unforeseen incidents.

Williams is in an offense that suits his skill set…..much like Stroud. Williams doesn’t have all the tools Stroud has been given, but is also putting up a fine season and should be even better next season as the USC recruiting machine returns to its former glory.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Give me Williams any day over Stroud. Williams reminds me of a slightly lesser Mahomes/Allen. Stroud reminds me of a lesser Ryan/Wentz/Goff A good QB but not worth 1-1.
Stroud is always going to be lesser in your eyes because his affiliation to Quincy Avery, plain and simple. As stated, I like Williams, but I don't see the separation except for foot athlete. Wentz problems are his leadership in the locker room, its not talent on the field. Before his injury, that dude was the MVP of the league and leading the team with the best record. Nobody ever questioned his ability or skill level. His doubt comes from locker room issues
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
In Houston the last 2 years, his ypc has been shaved because of the qb not pushing the ball. His last year in LA, he had concussion issues, thats why they took a 2nd rd pick for him. NO got a 1st rd pick because the were cash strapped and NE got a 1st rd pick for him because they don't pay wr's
Can’t push the ball to what’s not open or may drop the ball when available to catch. Cooks has had a major decline this season.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Trubisky had exactly one season as a starter before entering the draft….2 more starts than Mills. Maye will definitely have two complete seasons and roughly 24 CFB starts before the 2024 NFL Draft. He’s going to get even better barring any unforeseen incidents.

Williams is in an offense that suits his skill set…..much like Stroud. Williams doesn’t have all the tools Stroud has been given, but is also putting up a fine season and should be even better next season as the USC recruiting machine returns to its former glory.
What tools are you speaking of? He has the Biletnikoff award winner not to mention the other transfers and players who was already there.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
What tools are you speaking of? He has the Biletnikoff award winner not to mention the other transfers and players who was already there.
Do you feel USC is stacked with the same talent as Ohio State? I believe USC joins Alabama and Ohio State at the top of the recruiting class in 2023.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Can’t push the ball to what’s not open or may drop the ball when available to catch. Cooks has had a major decline this season.
Pushing the ball doesn't always mean throwing bombs, its about throwing the ball with the chance to make big plays. It could be that play vs philly of that one vs the Bears. There have been plays where wr's broke open in their route and because Mills has predetermined to check the ball down to Burkhead. Those are plays designed in a progression that should've been made.
 


Top