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DW4 Traded to Cleveland
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leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Salary cap didnt start until 93. The stat makes no sense, but he's going to stand on it.
Thing is you can only have a championship level QB for 7-8 yrs before if he's going to be to expensive to keep the pieces around the team to win a championship. Unless you've got a guy like Brady who winning is more important than money. This and better coaching is why Brady was always beating Manning. Manning always took the most money he could get.
Atleast its been this way since 1994.
I googled it and it said 1994.
But 93-94 it doesn't really matter it's just semantics.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I'm not arguing this point, but you do realize Brady has been the highest paid qb in the nfl and they were winning. Brady was beating Manning because he had the GOAT at coach too. Early on, Patriots were constantly fielding top 5 defenses when the league was still defensively oriented. Manning had like 2 top ten defenses in his career. That had nothing to do with his salary and moreso to do with Hoodie. Eli also got 2 superbowl victories despite being a top 5 highest paid qbs in the nfl. With top end qbs making top end money, its up to the gm to draft well and find gems. What the Pats did will never happen again in the history of the nfl. The biggest problemis when teams have a guy like Mayfield or to some degree Jackson. The clock is ticking on Cincy also now. Looking at the afc, its rough, really rough. I dont see the same team getting out consistently. I mean Rodgers and Brees have been to 2 sb combined.
Might want to checkout the % of money QB's take up on the cap before saying Brady was the highest paid QB during his Pats yrs.
If he was playing for any other team but the Bengals I think Burrow if healthy could be a multiple SB winner. Love me some Joey B, he's this generations Brady if he can stay healthy. IMHO
Agreed about the AFC being so tough. Allen is also great, as well as Mahomes, Herbert, LJ etc....
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Maybe the NFL and owners could modify the cap by giving teams 5 core players whose contracts would not count against the cap, provided it’s with drafting team.
Methinks QB's only
Dejaview
All Pro
Oddly premium QB contracts are an element of parity in the NFL. If they strap a teams‘ cap on one hand those teams without this “burden” may gain a deeper roster as a result. I believe this is what we may be seeing and why arguments continue over SB wins with teams with great or average QB’s. Parity gives both a chance. You want the contracts to count against the cap because the cap = parity.
FIFY
Dejaview
All Pro
I have to disagree. Without the cap applying to QB’s the sky is the limit on their salaries which would probably lead to salary inflation on the other 52 salaries further making the cap more troublesome. Those who think QB salaries will ruin the NFL need to consider the fact that the cap is the only mechanism that will actually limit them. Take it to its logical conclusion. If the QB’s salary takes up all the cap space you would only have one player on the team. Furthermore if the QB’s salary is uncapped teams would almost pay literally anything to steal a team’s QB which is the end of parity and the NFL. Steel’s 15% may be about at the limit because time and data seem to point to it.
It's one of those stats that seems very logical and consistent.
When you tie up resources for one player that prevents you from signing, say a dominant pass rusher, or great corner, or just depth to deal with injuries, that is ultimately going to hinder a team's ability to field a well balanced team.
Both teams in this year's SB were under the number with their QBs (Stafford 10.7% / Burrow 4.2%).
I was curious to see how many of this season's playoff teams were also under the percentage, so I looked it up on overthecap.com (assuming they are reliable, of course).
Mahomes - 4% (next season jumps to 17.1%, so that'll be an interesting test of this theory)
Allen - 5.4%
Rodgers - 14.9%
Brady - 5.8%
Prescott - 8.2%
Murray - 5.1%
Garoppolo - 13.7%
Carr - 11.7%
Tannehill - 5.8%
Jones - 1.4%
Roethlisberger - 13.9%
Hurts - 0.7%
Tom Brady's history is very interesting to study, because he was always under the number during his entire career.
That same site has a history of QB salary percentages from 1994 - 2013, and they all confirm the stat, as well.
I was thinking put a separate cap on QB salaries... like 15-18%
You would think owners would learn from this.
Yep. And same for the QBs that really are all about winning championships, too. Many claim it, but then their actions are counter-productive when they start demanding $35-$40 million/year.
It's very interesting to see the cap percentages of many of the QBs in the coming seasons. Mahomes in particular because Vegas already has them penciled in as 2022 SB favorites.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
What is the data on when QBs started making up 15% of the cap and how many QBs fall under that umbrella? What were the team makeups? There is so much that goes into the equation, that you trying to point to one thing is absurd. The cap and player compensation has evolved so drastically in the last decade, that we are just starting to see teams be saddled with QBs consistently earning 15% of the cap. Let's see how the next 10 years pan out.
Yep, You know it's lip service when QB's say they are all about championships but take every dollar they can get. QB'S that want to win and get paid can have their agents set things up where the big money doesn't hit until yr 8-9.
One thing that could skew this in the coming yrs is the cap should go way up now that the NFL has gotten in bed with the gamblers an with the new streaming service that will be happening after next year.
Dejaview
All Pro
Can you convince the players Union to accept that? But what you are proposing seems to be the time tested limit anyway. Teams strapped with a cap problem need to adjust strategies for adding good players to the roster….like trading later picks to move up in the draft and attempt to bring in better FA’s. I would consider trades of players for draft choices but NEVER for players. Draft “capital” is just that. That capital can be spent outside of actual picks.
I generally agree with this philosophy
However if I'm a team like the Bengals who are a SB contender and I've got 5 more yrs with Burrow where the cap hit won't be bad and there's room to add a guy like Tunsil, I do it.
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Dejaview
All Pro
Well that would work the way I’d do it. We trade the player and let them deal with what they give up. If we are in that situation I’d go through the draft or free agency. This may be why NC proceeded like he did last year. He moved up to try to add better than average players but he didn’t have much to work with there or in free agency. As it turned out he had an interesting draft. The question is does Tunsil fit the profile for our new line coach…physical and nasty…if not I’d trade him.
Players were flocking to New England for below market value just for a chance to win a ring. The whole “salary cap” thing worked differently in New England
evident in what we see Caserio doing
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
There is no "this generation's Brady", just like there was no QB like him before he put on the cleats. Brady's career is a complete outlier. The NFL can play another 100 seasons and there still won't be another Brady. He basically spent half his career ending his season in a Superbowl title game which is insane. He's the GOAT of all GOATS.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Nobody has a wife worth 400m . As stated before, Brady has been the highest paid qb in the NFL. Matt Stafford for years took large chunks of the cap. At one point, Lions had 3 players eating up like 40% of the cap. If Brady would've been taking his contracts like every other qb, qb salaries would be 55m per for elite guys. Can't knock his hustle.
Care to prove Brady being the highest paid QB.
You dont know what Brady would've done. He took paycuts when he was with Bridget Moynihan. He's always had a chip on his shoulder. Winning has always been 1st for Brady. It's why he's the GOAT.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
No he didnt. He was highest paid qb in the league for a couple of seasons. Google it
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
2006 Quarterback Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap
Ranking the top NFL 2006 Quarterback contracts and salaries in the NFL
overthecap.com
There are other years where he and Manning salaries were 20k apart. The way they structured his deal by giving huge bonuses and small salaries allows them to manipulate the cap. 1 year he got a 30m bonus, but his salary was at 1m. The Patriots were able to save alot of money on dbs and ol players because they coached up those positions. Butler and JC Jackson were updrafted . The oline was coached up by the retired line coach so they didn't have to draft alot of players at that spot. Brady did sacrifice money later in his career, but he has a wife worth more than he is. Not alot of qbs can say that. It's up to the gm to draft and build the roster. If the qb is playing top shelf, nothing guarantees a superbowl. The Bucs were the 1st team to bring back every coach and their 22 starters back after a superbowl and see what happened.
Not all of them, QB's who lead their teams to the playoffs AND earn a 2nd contract will eat up big cap percentages .... Rookie contracts are going to be cheap by comparison and QB's who reach FA on bad teams .... like Mills, they aren't breaking the bank either.
Texansballer74
The Marine
And when that contract is up and they have out played their rookie contract. They will get a max contract in which eats up whatever percentage of the cap. And if we’re actually paying attention, it’s not stopping most teams from adding talent or keeping their core players. But since it’s the Texans and when a certain few fans doesn’t like that quarterback. They tend to make a big deal out of the cap.
Dejaview
All Pro
didn’t seem like much difference in this 16 year old data between 1-5. So Brady is living off his wife, lol. I can promise you any celebrity couple maintains separate monetary accounts protected by attorneys, trusts, agreements, etc.
Dejaview
All Pro
true in more ways than one. If they don’t get that contract in range with others they will just move on. Bet nobody on this board would take less at their job if their peers are getting more. But that aside as long as this is a cap sport salaries at all positions will rise proportionately with cap increases as will tickets, food, parking, politics, etc.
Yep. All folks have to do is check out the database on overthecap.com and see the teams that missed the playoffs and the percentage of the cap take by their QBs. It's not all of them, but it's enough that continues to support the theory.
It's a zero sum game so that money given to a QB has to be taken from somewhere. It usually results in lack of depth and even a few key positions with mediocre players.
Dejaview
All Pro
Even without a cap there would still be a lack of depth and key positions with mediocre players on every team. All the lack of depth and mediocre players proves is the simple lack of quantity of premium NFL players to fill a full compliment of 32 teams. The cap just helps distribute this agglomeration more equally instead of allowing a few select teams from hoarding the best players.
I don't disagree with you, but surely you can understand that giving one player a bigger piece of the pie means you have less pie to give to the rest of the team.
Texansballer74
The Marine
We worry about the cap too much. In the grand scheme of things 15% is not that much to them. And it’s not stopping teams from signing other players. They will figure it out.
They haven't since 1994.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Again we the fans needs to stop worrying about the cap. It’s not our money.
It’s about team building.
QBs making that kind of money put there teams in a stressed situation. Worse if you’re paying that kind of money & the QB refuses to play.
I bet Davis is already working on getting up otta here.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Something we will never have control over. And it will always going to be like that whether we agree to it or not. So why complain about it. The cap this year will be well over 200 million plus.
It’s what we do.
$208M. We’ve got $16M in. Cap space & a crappy roster.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Reminds me of an old story about the human body having an internal argument over who should be the lead. The brain spoke up first and said, without me nothing works…so I should be the king. The heart said, wait…I should be the king b/c without me, blood couldn’t move and the body would die. Suddenly there was a huge a bru-hah going on within the body over who should be the king and then out of no where, the arse-hole spoke up and said, I should be king. Suddenly, the entire body was rolling with laughter and pointing to the arsehole in disbelief that it would even speak up. Well, the arse-hole got so pissed off…it clinched up and went on strike. Pretty soon the brain was no longer thinking clearly, the heart was having palpitations, the body was profusely sweating, and the legs were getting weak. Realizing there was no end in sight, the body made the arse-hole king.
QB’s get paid a king’s ransom and pretty soon the rest of the team realizes that no QB is as great as the sum of all its parts, which is what makes the team…a team. Even the lowly OL knows that it can make or break a QB1.
If teams keep handing out dis-appropriate money to their QB1 while the team is performing below average, that to could create animosity and dissension within the ranks.
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Not worrying about money at all.
Just saying you cant win a championship unless the money is spread out correctly and more than 15% to your QB history says you aren't winning a championship. You can choose to ignore almost 30 yrs of history if you wish. But it is what it is.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
If you have a top 5-10 qb, he's going to eat up a large chunk of your cap period. If you have elite players, they're going to eat up huge chunks period. You have to pay top talent when its time to get paid. You cant spread out paying people if they perform way beyond their rookie deal. Matt Stafford was always among the highest paid qbs in the nfl. Then a year before reup, he forced his way out a the Rams got him on the back end of his deal. You keep trying to wordplay this 15% deal which makes no sense to me. Matt Ryan made it to a super bowl taking up over 16%, but they lost, Peyton made it making over that threshold and lost. Getting to a superbowl is very,very difficult. Its one and done. Getting to the playoffs, which gives you the opportunity to go to the superbowl is more of a barometer. Having a top flight qb is the best way to get in the playoffs and give the team a chance. There is a realist scenerio that the Bengals might not ever make it back to the superbowl. The afc is stacked with young arms. If you dont have a dynamic player at qb, you're not getting out of youre division, much less to the superbowl. The cap is constantly going up, but parity is what makes the nfl king in the us. Colts have a championship level team at every position except qb. Watching Rams v 49ers even in defeat told me Shanny is a better coach than McVeigh, but Stafford was a better qb than Jimmy G. You cant surround a guy like Jimmy G with enough talent to win a superbowl. Thats not to say Lance is going to burn the world up, but he has elite tools. No different than why KC moved on from Smith. You need a difference maker at qb.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He's not living off his wife, but he doesn't have to get the whole bag because his wife is worth more than he is.
That's your opinion, facts say differently.
The Colts didn't make the playoffs because they blew big leads against the Titans and Ravens. Their defense is a light fast defense that wears down. You can surround Jimmy G with enough talent to make 1 SB and if Tartt catches that int 2 SB's in 3 yrs. I dont have an issue with the 49ers moving on from Jimmy G because he cant stay healthy and that team is SB ready. Bet you the 49ers take a step back next yr with Lance at QB and I like Lance although he needs to improve his accuracy.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
…..but what is Garoppolo going to lead the Teaxans, Lions, Jaguars, or Jets to? Garoppolo was very fortunate to have played for the Patriots and 49’ers. You might’ve seen the real stand alone version of Garoppolo if he’d been forced to lead the 4 teams mentioned above.
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He's never going to play for the Texans.
Remember when he joined the 49ers they weren't a very good team and he won like his first 5-6 starts.
Dejaview
All Pro
Oh I wasnt disagreeing with you and I fully understand that. But that cap is everything IMO and one might even argue that it actually helps other non-QB skilled players to get a contract with a non cap strapped team. But in the end the NFL is similar to the acting body that produces film stars and CiCi Pizza commercial makers.
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