Texans to trade and cut players for a better GM option (see article)

[SnakeEyes]

G


I appreciated Schaub when he was healthy. But if we had a playmaker at QB back then, we’d have got past the divisional round.

Give us a middle of the pack scoring defense now & we’d get past the divisional round. Even without a run game.

I'm not sure. Gary didn't adjust his system well. If we were down at the half we did not come out different in the second very often. That system is based on knowing the D and either running or throwing to the right spot. And the ZB (zone blocking) kept the QB clean when it was working.

 

[Speedy]

53.6 QBR 63.3% completion

59.4% completion 66QBR

What is this called? Minus an INT the Jags QB played nearly as good as Watson and his % complete is better... that's not good.

So yes, I want him to get better. Yet so far he has not shown anything that says he is. So,if a new HC and system come in and we get the same thing we have been. How long until you say Watson is not working? Is it games or seasons?

Yeah, well, if I played against the Texans defense I could probably complete a ton of passes too. And let's not forget the 3 sure INT the Texans dropped.

It's amazing to me that the bitching about the current QB is just as bad, if not worse, than when we had Hoyer, Osweiler, Fitzpatrick, Savage and so on. Watson still has a ways to go, but if you can't get excited about his ceiling, no QB is ever going to do it for you.

I will admit it I would take 12 win Schaub over Watson. He could read a D and he would throw it away. He is not as athletic as Watson, but he was pretty good at the same things Watson is NOT good at (throwing ball away, reading D).

And just how do you think Schaub would be behind this line, in this offense, with no run game? "12 win" Schaub had an offensive genius who put his players in positions to succeed. Routes designed to get people open, and a run game featuring a 1,400 yard back with 15 TD. Not to mention a top 10 defense. When has Watson ever had any of that?

I see a graphic put up on the TV screen comparing some of the things Watson has done to guys like Rodgers, Brees, etc. on an almost weekly basis, yet some of y'all here bash the dude like he's some scrub that should be on the practice squad.

This offense is up to 28 points per game since OB left. Watson has 11 TD and 2 picks in that time, while completing 70.6% of his passes with a 118 passer rating, 321 yards per game, with a run game averaging 67 yards per game without his run totals added in. But somehow that's still not good enough for some of you people.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

I will admit it I would take 12 win Schaub over Watson. He could read a D and he would throw it away. He is not as athletic as Watson, but he was pretty good at the same things Watson is NOT good at (throwing ball away, reading D).

Ok....Schaub throw aways = pick 6. More than anyone cared to count.

 

[steelbtexan]

Ok....Schaub throw aways = pick 6. More than anyone cared to count.

After his foot was hurt. Not so much before.

 

[CWTexansFan]

Steel is 100% accurate with his opinion about Watson.

Quoted for truth.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Quoted for truth.

Same. Proof is on the field and in his scouting report. Say it is not true all you want but unless you are blind... you can see it as well as Steel or anyone else can

 

[Texansballer74]

Yes the scouting report is a 1000% accurate.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Yes the scouting report is a 1000% accurate.

Has been since day 1. And I am starting to wonder if OB really didn't want him and then was stuck. Seeing if you think about it...he took a team lead by Brock to a 9-7 division title and playoffs. Seems like he was doing something right.

 

[Texansballer74]

Has been since day 1. And I am starting to wonder if OB really didn't want him and then was stuck. Seeing if you think about it...he took a team lead by Brock to a 9-7 division title and playoffs. Seems like he was doing something right.

You're 1000% correct again.

 

[Double Barrel]

Has been since day 1. And I am starting to wonder if OB really didn't want him and then was stuck. Seeing if you think about it...he took a team lead by Brock to a 9-7 division title and playoffs. Seems like he was doing something right.

Why, oh why, would the Texans ever fire such an amazing and awesome head coach?!??

Btw, Brock threw 16 INTs and 15 TDs that season, so I'd say it's safe to say that the defense and a crappy division had as much to do with getting to the playoffs than anything else.

But yeah, O'Brien did it all by himself. Poor underappreciated bastard.

 

[76Texan]

Has been since day 1. And I am starting to wonder if OB really didn't want him and then was stuck. Seeing if you think about it...he took a team lead by Brock to a 9-7 division title and playoffs. Seems like he was doing something right.

Is that you, BOB?

 

[76Texan]

Has been since day 1. And I am starting to wonder if OB really didn't want him and then was stuck. Seeing if you think about it...he took a team lead by Brock to a 9-7 division title and playoffs. Seems like he was doing something right.

If you don't know who Greg Cosell is, I think you want to find out.
And this is what he has to say regarding Watson, short and to the point:

 

[Corrosion]

You had me until you said Wentz.....injuries have taken on toll on him lately. Mahomes is already better than Ben and Brees imo. It's mahomes Wilson and rogers in any order for me

I give you better than Ben .... but man , Brees is just on another level when it comes to decision making and understanding the game. He is leaps and bounds above .... everyone but Brady & Peyton.

And you know how I feel about Mahomes ..... but he just isn't on that level yet mentally - physically / athletically , yes he's better (Watson might actually be better athletically than Mahomes - Oh heck , I can't say that , I hate Watson )

 

[Corrosion]

My friend I believe you have blinders on. We don’t have the defense or the run games those other QBs had.

I agree Watson is not as good as many claim here.

That's all I'm saying ...

This all started with that stupid thread "Watson top 5" .... Some agree , some don't , I happen to fall into the latter category.

top 10 .... sure. top 5 .... Not Yet.

At least we haven't heard Jesus in cleats lately.

 

[Texansballer74]

That's all I'm saying ...

This all started with that stupid thread "Watson top 5" .... Some agree , some don't , I happen to fall into the latter category.

top 10 .... sure. top 5 .... Not Yet.

At least we haven't heard Jesus in cleats lately.

Being in the top 10 is considered to be above average to elite.

10-20 average to slightly above average

20-30 below average

So if if Watson is top 10, where did you get this poor to middling from?

 

[76Texan]

Being in the top 10 is considered to be above average to elite.

10-20 average to slightly above average

20-30 below average

So if if Watson is top 10, where did you get this poor to middling from?

I used to be in the borderline top 10.
Now, I'm firmly in the top 10.
Trending up.
It's not that easy to compare QBs, so if somebody says borderline top 5, I wouldn't argue either way.

And you're right.
I don't get that "poor to middling" as a definition of top 10.

 

[badboy]

Without the team being made better, I've had little hope that the needle was going to move. The team is so much more than just a QB. One thing I know for certain......there aren't many Texans fans crying for the return of any of the prior QB's over Watson. So before I stick a final grade on Watson, I'll keep grading the organization and coaching staff first and foremost.

Why can't we get in the running car? Most agree we have a top 10 QB, the best pass blocking left tackle in the NFL and that's the primary building blocks. PJ Hall looking good for a pickup and Greenard and Blacklock got some solid work in. Cooks and Fuller are NFL starters and if the cap does get squeezed WF5 could be back. Akins is the future at another prime position for DW. Howard was better offering hope at right tackle.
Yeah we got long way to go to recover from previous management but I'm not ready to hide in the cemetery yet.

Quit breathing on me!

 

[SnakeEyes]

Is that you, BOB?

You don't seem to understand. Not every HC can win with a QB like Brock. It takes a solid plan and coaching staff. Saying OB is not all to blame for everything is a fact. And saying Watson is NOT as good as others is also. If you can not be able to see flaws in your own team that's not my problem. Saying that Watson played near an equal game on Sunday as a QB (whatever his name is) for the Jags is a legit fact. The Jags QB had a better completion percentage but lower QB rating ONLY due to a 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Had he not thrown the INT even with only 1 TD...he would have had a higher rating. That says all you need to say about Watson needs to improve.

 

[Texansballer74]

You don't seem to understand. Not every HC can win with a QB like Brock. It takes a solid plan and coaching staff. Saying OB is not all to blame for everything is a fact. And saying Watson is NOT as good as others is also. If you can not be able to see flaws in your own team that's not my problem. Saying that Watson played near an equal game on Sunday as a QB (whatever his name is) for the Jags is a legit fact. The Jags QB had a better completion percentage but lower QB rating ONLY due to a 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Had he not thrown the INT even with only 1 TD...he would have had a higher rating. That says all you need to say about Watson needs to improve.

That’s because our butterfingers defensive backs dropped 3 interceptions. Dude you do know we have the worst secondary and linebacker crew in the NFL.

You do know we have one of the worst offensive lines in the league right.

All that plays a major factors correct?

 

[SnakeEyes]

If you don't know who Greg Cosell is, I think you want to find out.
And this is what he has to say regarding Watson, short and to the point:

And an option. You can feel that he is correct or incorrect. Numbers don't lie and Watson's numbers say he is above average. However, they show a trend of the same thing week in week out. That trend is not being able to make the play to win. As well as doing the same thing it says in his scouting report (bad D reading, not throwing it away, always looking for a big play vs what is called and not doing well running left).

I hope he can get better but have doubts.

 

[thunderkyss]

Why can't we get in the running car?

Well played.

 

[Texansballer74]

And an option. You can feel that he is correct or incorrect. Numbers don't lie and Watson's numbers say he is above average. However, they show a trend of the same thing week in week out. That trend is not being able to make the play to win. As well as doing the same thing it says in his scouting report (bad D reading, not throwing it away, always looking for a big play vs what is called and not doing well running left).

I hope he can get better but have doubts.

That is a lie! Watson has drove this ship plenty of times down the field and took the lead in crunch time. Only to have the Texans defense give it away.


What is your agenda here?

 

[thunderkyss]

That is 1000% correct.

FIFY

 

[SnakeEyes]

That is a lie! Watson has drove this ship plenty of times down the field and took the lead in crunch time. Only to have the Texans defense give it away.


What is your agenda here?

You state your opinion. Feel free. I am saying plain and simple HE NEEDS TO IMPROVE. I really hope he can.

 

[Decim8]

I give you better than Ben .... but man , Brees is just on another level when it comes to decision making and understanding the game. He is leaps and bounds above .... everyone but Brady & Peyton.

And you know how I feel about Mahomes ..... but he just isn't on that level yet mentally - physically / athletically , yes he's better (Watson might actually be better athletically than Mahomes - Oh heck , I can't say that , I hate Watson )

Mentally i can agree with, its the one thing that will come with experience. I just feel like "arm wise" Brees can't make same throws he use to 3 - 5 years ago. Whether its true or not I dont know, Im only going off from the few quotes I read over at the saints forum

 

[Texansballer74]

You state your opinion. Feel free. I am saying plain and simple HE NEEDS TO IMPROVE. I really hope he can.

We all have our opinions, so chill the freak out with that noise. And we all have said he needs to improve joker. But how can we really expect that with the crap he's working with.


It's like you guys just have to be right in yall evaluation.

 

[Texansballer74]

Mentally i can agree with, its the one thing that will come with experience. I just feel like "arm wise" Brees can't make same throws he use to 3 - 5 years ago. Whether its true or not I dont know, Im only going off from the few quotes I read over at the saints forum

I watched all of those games and yes the arm strength isn't like it use to be. Breezy is just so crafty with it and he have some pretty good weapons that gets opened a lot. His offensive line has gotten much better. And the luxury of having a top 5 running back is a thing of beauty.

 

[Texansballer74]

Optimistic real talk. It's like some have to come on here and pound away this he needs to improve. No skit Sherlock.


But I'm the one that doesn't respect others opinions. Classic.

Dude trying to make it seem as if Watson hasn't put this team in position to win. When you tell he's wrong. Now it's this my my opinion crap. Dude you were wrong

 

[Speedy]

If you can not be able to see flaws in your own team that's not my problem.

If all you see are flaws, that is your problem.

 

[amazing80]

Anti Watson guys make such ridiculous claims that it forces guys like me into defending him and being labeled a homer. No. If you guys didn’t say such stupid things we wouldn’t have to talk about Watson in every thread. There are not 10 better qbs in this league. There is barely 5 better. Until the TEAM improves he will be limited in the win column. Just like every other qb in the history of the league. I can’t believe you guys said Schaub was better than Watson. Wtf us wrong with you guys

 

[Thorn]

Anti Watson guys make such ridiculous claims that it forces guys like me into defending him and being labeled a homer. No. If you guys didn’t say such stupid things we wouldn’t have to talk about Watson in every thread. There are not 10 better qbs in this league. There is barely 5 better. Until the TEAM improves he will be limited in the win column. Just like every other qb in the history of the league. I can’t believe you guys said Schaub was better than Watson. Wtf us wrong with you guys

If Watson had Schaub's team he'd be kicking ass, more so that Schaub did. And I like Schaub during his good years before he got all the injuries.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Anti Watson guys make such ridiculous claims that it forces guys like me into defending him and being labeled a homer. No. If you guys didn’t say such stupid things we wouldn’t have to talk about Watson in every thread. There are not 10 better qbs in this league. There is barely 5 better. Until the TEAM improves he will be limited in the win column. Just like every other qb in the history of the league. I can’t believe you guys said Schaub was better than Watson. Wtf us wrong with you guys

The Schaub who won 12 games is indeed better. He also knew when to throw it away and not go for the homerun every play.

I wanted Watson, I liked the pick. But...I am now seeing the issues that were on the scouting report. And he has to improve on them.

 

[76Texan]

And an option. You can feel that he is correct or incorrect. Numbers don't lie and Watson's numbers say he is above average. However, they show a trend of the same thing week in week out. That trend is not being able to make the play to win. As well as doing the same thing it says in his scouting report (bad D reading, not throwing it away, always looking for a big play vs what is called and not doing well running left).

I hope he can get better but have doubts.

There are a lot of things I want to respond to here, but let's take one thing at a time.

Holding on to the ball?
No improvement?

The numbers don't agree with your assessments.

NGS | NFL Next Gen Stats

NFL’s Next Gen Stats captures real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Discover Next Gen Stats News, Charts, and Statistics.

nextgenstats.nfl.com

These are official stats from the NFL.

You can change the year to 2018, 19, and 20.

For simplicity sake, just look at the column that says TT (Time to Throw).
I know that there are lots of things that may affect this number.
For example, a slow poke like Manning, Schaub, Savage would either eat it or throw it away, thus shorten the time to throw.
Guys like Wilson, Rodgers, Watson, Mahomes would try to extent plays and keep the ball longer.
Guys that favor a quick passing game (like Brady, and Prescott of the last few years) would require less time to throw the ball.
But also, a QB that throws a lot of screen passes or dump offs, would also need less time to throw the ball, like Derek Carr and a few young guys right now, even Dak Prescott (in his rookie year).

1. You can see that Watson's time to throw has decreased from 3.10 to 2.82
There's the improvement that does not support your claim.

2. Compare that number with Wilson's and Mahome's.
Compare it with the rest of the league.

 

[76Texan]

And an option. You can feel that he is correct or incorrect. Numbers don't lie and Watson's numbers say he is above average. However, they show a trend of the same thing week in week out. That trend is not being able to make the play to win. As well as doing the same thing it says in his scouting report (bad D reading, not throwing it away, always looking for a big play vs what is called and not doing well running left).

I hope he can get better but have doubts.

Secondly, a bad offensive line and a poor running game will often put a QB in the position to go for it on third and long.

I had mentioned somewhere that this year, the Texans D has generated 55 total pressures so far on the opponent's QBs in 8 games.

On the other hand, Watson saw 52 pressures in just the first 3 games alone.

Coupled with the poor running game, and the terrible defense overall, it's very hard for the QB to make winning plays consistently.

Try to see if you can find QBs in similar situations that can win at the rate that you want and tell me.

 

[76Texan]

You don't seem to understand. Not every HC can win with a QB like Brock. It takes a solid plan and coaching staff.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OsweBr00.htm

Brock Osweiler.
Broncos 5-2 WL record, 61.8% completion, 10-6 TD/INT Ratio, 245.9 yd/game, 6.9 Air Yard/Attempt.
Texans 8-6 WL record, 59.0% completion, 15-16 TD/INT Ratio, 197.1 yd/game, 5.0 Air Yard/Attempt.

 

[76Texan]

Saying that Watson played near an equal game on Sunday as a QB (whatever his name is) for the Jags is a legit fact. The Jags QB had a better completion percentage but lower QB rating ONLY due to a 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Had he not thrown the INT even with only 1 TD...he would have had a higher rating. That says all you need to say about Watson needs to improve.

You add 2 or 3 should-have-been Ints to Jake Luton's stat sheet, and it's not even close.

Texans' RBs 18-57 , 1 fumble lost.
Jax' RBs 26-102

Reverse the situation and it will get even worse for Luton, because he will see more second/third and long situations.

Also, if you reverse the "QB Pressure" situation, same thing.

 

[76Texan]

The Schaub who won 12 games is indeed better. He also knew when to throw it away and not go for the homerun every play.

I wanted Watson, I liked the pick. But...I am now seeing the issues that were on the scouting report. And he has to improve on them.

That Oline ranked 8th in pass pro and 6th in fewest penalties.
That team also had Foster and Tate at RB.
The D ranked 9th in points allowed
and 7th in yards allowed.

 

[76Texan]

The Schaub who won 12 games is indeed better. He also knew when to throw it away and not go for the homerun every play.

I wanted Watson, I liked the pick. But...I am now seeing the issues that were on the scouting report. And he has to improve on them.

The issues that carried Clemson to a 28-2 record the last two years while he was there?
And he played well in the two losses.

There's no shame to lose to Alabama, a team that was stacked with NFL talent.
Look at their roster.

2016 Alabama Crimson Tide Roster | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

2016 Alabama Crimson Tide Roster

www.sports-reference.com

There were 19 guys on the defensive side of the ball alone; many many of them were drafted in the first 3 rounds.

He took his team downfield in the loss against Pitts, but Sweeny decided to go for it on the ground on third and one and then fourth and one, taking the ball out of the hand of his best player.

And the D couldn't stop the two late drives by the Panthers.

Not Watson'a fault the Tigers lost that game.

 

[Texansballer74]

Good job 76 unfortunately those type of fans only see it one way. They are trying to push their opinions as if they’re facts. Brother they are indeed 1000% accurate here. Nothing else matters to them. All they see is Watson flaws.

What’s crazy is nobody on here thinks he’s perfect. We’ve all agreed he has to improve in a few areas. But IMO how can anybody show massive improvement when the offensive line is still performing at a piss poor level. The running game is still at the bottom of the league. This also hits home for our boy Tex. We can’t expect improvement in that area either because the offensive line has regressed terribly in the running game too.

 

[76Texan]

And an option. You can feel that he is correct or incorrect. Numbers don't lie and Watson's numbers say he is above average. However, they show a trend of the same thing week in week out. That trend is not being able to make the play to win. As well as doing the same thing it says in his scouting report (bad D reading, not throwing it away, always looking for a big play vs what is called and not doing well running left).

I hope he can get better but have doubts.

Also, about the thing you said he's not doing well when running left.
(The bottom row is for screen passes, flipping the ball to the receiver on a jet sweep or a shovel pass. Doesn't really tell much at all about a QB's ability).

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/2018/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2018/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/2019/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2019/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts...eek/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2020/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/qb-grid

Somebody was imagining thing in college, or it doesn't happen when he's been in the NFL.

 

[76Texan]

Good job 76 unfortunately those type of fans only see it one way. They are trying to push their opinions as if they’re facts. Brother they are indeed 1000% accurate here. Nothing else matters to them. All they see is Watson flaws.

What’s crazy is nobody on here thinks he’s perfect. We’ve all agreed he has to improve in a few areas. But IMO how can anybody show massive improvement when the offensive line is still performing at a piss poor level. The running game is still at the bottom of the league. This also hits home for our boy Tex. We can’t expect improvement in that area either because the offensive line has regressed terribly in the running game too.

I'll just keep chipping away like I did on O'Brien for Steelb, preparing him for the eventuality, LOL.

 

[Double Barrel]

That Oline ranked 8th in pass pro and 6th in fewest penalties.
That team also had Foster and Tate at RB.
The D ranked 9th in points allowed
and 7th in yards allowed.

You really make it seem like a team sport.

 

[steelbtexan]

If all you see are flaws, that is your problem.

Tell me what's not flawed about this team.

 

[steelbtexan]

If Watson had Schaub's team he'd be kicking ass, more so that Schaub did. And I like Schaub during his good years before he got all the injuries.

You dont know this for a fact.

2009 Schaub is the best yr a QB has ever had in a Texans uniform.

 

[steelbtexan]

Anti Watson guys make such ridiculous claims that it forces guys like me into defending him and being labeled a homer. No. If you guys didn’t say such stupid things we wouldn’t have to talk about Watson in every thread. There are not 10 better qbs in this league. There is barely 5 better. Until the TEAM improves he will be limited in the win column. Just like every other qb in the history of the league. I can’t believe you guys said Schaub was better than Watson. Wtf us wrong with you guys

How many yrs before you start questioning if DW4's as good as you think he is? We're in yr 4, maybe in yr 4 of the new regime and if they aren't successful and get fired will there be another if DW4 just had this or that he would be the greatest moment? Your acting as though the mistakes DW4's making and lack of consistency is because he's a rookie. He's been in the league for 4 yrs and counting.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'll just keep chipping away like I did on O'Brien for Steelb, preparing him for the eventuality, LOL.

Chipping away what?

Fact is for the last 13 games DW4 has sucked for atleast a half every time he faces an above avg defense. Just look at this yr as an example if you dont want to go back to last yr. I would say I'm chipping away at your block but we both know your head is way to hard for that.

 

[steelbtexan]

Also, about the thing you said he's not doing well when running left.
(The bottom row is for screen passes, flipping the ball to the receiver on a jet sweep or a shovel pass. Doesn't really tell much at all about a QB's ability).

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/2018/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2018/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/2019/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2019/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts...eek/deshaun-watson/WAT338355/2020/all/qb-grid

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/qb-grid

Somebody was imagining thing in college, or it doesn't happen when he's been in the NFL.

This isn't College.

 

[steelbtexan]

Good job 76 unfortunately those type of fans only see it one way. They are trying to push their opinions as if they’re facts. Brother they are indeed 1000% accurate here. Nothing else matters to them. All they see is Watson flaws.

What’s crazy is nobody on here thinks he’s perfect. We’ve all agreed he has to improve in a few areas. But IMO how can anybody show massive improvement when the offensive line is still performing at a piss poor level. The running game is still at the bottom of the league. This also hits home for our boy Tex. We can’t expect improvement in that area either because the offensive line has regressed terribly in the running game too.

So we all agree he needs to improve,

What do you think he needs to improve on?

 

[76Texan]

This isn't College.

He was talking about the scouting report, you block head. LOL.

 

[76Texan]

Chipping away what?

Fact is for the last 13 games DW4 has sucked for atleast a half every time he faces an above avg defense. Just look at this yr as an example if you dont want to go back to last yr. I would say I'm chipping away at your block but we both know your head is way to hard for that.

Chipping away at your saying that.BOB is a mediocre HC before the season.
Mediocre ain't 0-4, LOL.