Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Texans to trade and cut players for a better GM option (see article)

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Again not sure why or where you get this idea I hate Watson. That makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever unless you think I want him to fail because of outside reasons I won’t go into because it would get us both banned.

We can sit here and look at the positives as you say all day long but the fact is the team is a dumpster fire with no end in sight so it would be fools gold in my eyes. There is an old saying never fail to learn in victory what you would have learned in defeat. In other words I can give you a list of Watson’s positives, and yes I do know he has many, but those positives aren’t the focus because it’s not the positives he needs to improve on.

Yes if Watson has a top 5 defense and a wall for an Oline and a scary running game and top receivers he would be doing much better. You know what though any QB in the NFL would look like a superstar with those things. What makes the greats the greats is that even without them they find ways. Rogers hasn’t had any help on defense or receivers for years but GB is still always in the mix. Wilson lost beast mode and the legion of boom but he’s kept the hawks a force to fear. Mahomes has a joke for a defense and not only didn’t he have a running game but he had a coach that doesn’t even plan for a running game and he got the Chiefs into the mix.

I don’t expect Watson to win it all alone and you’re right the defense has crapped the bed many times. Though I have to say I find it ironic that now people are saying the defense is crap and holding the team back but when OB was here and they did that it was OB’s fault. The philly game in particular comes to mind. And yes there has been times Watson alone has saved the day such as the game against the Giants, but there has also been times when the heroics has hit the team in the backside as well.
There are a lot of misses in this post.
Go back and look at all the great QBs' first four years (including Mahomes).
Watson measures up with them quite well, thank you.
In Mahomes' second year, for example, you may think they had a bad defense, but it was actually an opportunistic defense that created 30 turnovers.
How many do you think the Texans had?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
In the NFL QB's aren't brought along slowly anymore. I would say after 4 yrs DW4 has had enough time to adjust and learn. But it hasn't happened. Hopefully it happens with the next regime and DW4 has an epiphany.
Mahomes get to play a meaningless last game in his rookie year.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There’s no siding here, I simply state what I believe and what I see. If that happens to be in line with what someone else sees or thinks then so be it. If that conflicts then also so be it. If I’m in the majority or the lone voice in the minority it makes no difference because it’s still what I see.

For example I am most likely the only person on here that thinks RS did a decent job as GM and would not be opposed to him returning as the GM. I’d want someone else to draft rounds 2-7 but for round one he drafted Hopkins, Watt, Fuller and Watson. He also drafted Clowney at 1:1 which I didn’t, and still don’t, like but hey so be it. If nothing else you’d at least know he would hire a HC that he thought would give Watson his best chance as RS legacy as a GM is directly tied to Watson’s as a QB.
I’m in the same company as you when it comes to what RS did here. I remember the back and forth stuff you had with one of those gents that’s hating on Watson today. Remember I was involved with those heated exchanges to. If you notice, that same individual picks one person on that team and go all out on them. If Watson bounce he will direct that energy to someone else.
You guys must enjoy mediocrity.

12 yrs and no AFCCG under his leadership.

BTW, if you need a guy to pick players in rds 2-7 you're not very good at your job. Although RS was very good at doing the 1 thing that matters to the McNair's the most. Making $$$$.
 

Mangler

All Pro
In the NFL QB's aren't brought along slowly anymore. I would say after 4 yrs DW4 has had enough time to adjust and learn. But it hasn't happened. Hopefully it happens with the next regime and DW4 has an epiphany.
If they keep shoving the “Patriot way” down this team’s throat, I fear Watson is already a finished product, as Brady has proven he WAS the system. If they scrap this clusterphook of a system I’m positive that Watson will improve and take that next step. It turns my stomach hearing that Caserio is still being considered for the GM spot.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they keep shoving the “Patriot way” down this team’s throat, I fear Watson is already a finished product, as Brady has proven he WAS the system. If they scrap this clusterphook of a system I’m positive that Watson will improve and take that next step. It turns my stomach hearing that Caserio is still being considered for the GM spot.
Cam is no Brady,

You're correct.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I thought this thread was about Texans trading or cutting players. Did I miss that Watson got cut or traded?
This has been one heck of a long thread for something that hasn't happened...yet. And probably won't happen to any large degree until the 2021 offseason.

What I want to know, where the hell is Warring and why have they done nothing with him (moving him, cutting him, getting him in a game)? What another tremendous waste of a 3rd round pick when the Texans really could have used that pick on the defensive side of the ball. It was a head-scratcher then, even more so now.

Oops, did I go off-thread? Ok, about this guy named Deshaun Watson...
 

banned1976

All Pro
Why does every thread have to be about Watson?
I just mentioned him in the offensive line thread because I feel he is relevant in that conversation. How he continues to get brought up in this thread, the defense thread, the GM thread, the HC thread...I have no idea. I don't read every post in all those threads. I just know that if I ignore one thread for one day and go back to it the following day, regardless of the relevancy to Watson it may or may not have, there could be four new pages of nothing but arguments about Watson.

Poster one: "This defense is putrid" is posted in the defense is terrible thread.

Poster two: "Well, Watson could help the defense by sustaining drives".

Poster three: "Oh here we go again. Spewing your Watson sucks nonsense!".

4 pages later:

Poster 26: "What's this thread about, again?".
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I just mentioned him in the offensive line thread because I feel he is relevant in that conversation. How he continues to get brought up in this thread, the defense thread, the GM thread, the HC thread...I have no idea. I don't read every post in all those threads. I just know that if I ignore one thread for one day and go back to it the following day, regardless of the relevancy to Watson it may or may not have, there could be four new pages of nothing but arguments about Watson.

Poster one: "This defense is putrid" is posted in the defense is terrible thread.

Poster two: "Well, Watson could help the defense by sustaining drives".

Poster three: "Oh here we go again. Spewing your Watson sucks nonsense!".

4 pages later:

Poster 26: "What's this thread about, again?".
My point exactly!
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Watson has shown he is at his best when he has the fewest options and can focus on executing those few, or even one, option as flawlessly as possible. It’s the jack of all trades vs singular master argument.
I can understand what you are saying. But I don't see it that way. To me, Watson would excel if he had someone managing the offense in a big picture way, who knows how to manage a game.

The play caller. He's got to know when to press the issue, when to lay back. When to hold them, when to fold them. & Watson has to trust that guy.

I know there are a lot of execution problems in Watson's game. I just think those issues start above his pay grade.
 
I wish they would trade or cut him .... just so we can stop arguing about him.

But then we wouldn't have anything at all to talk about.
Yeah what a lot of people saying why does every thread have to be about Watson don’t seem to see is we literally have nothing to talk about until the off season.

Most of the players are either going to be cut or walk except Watson, Tunsil and maybe JJ.

We’re not hiring a HC or GM for months and if sources are to be believed then it’s already a foregone conclusion as to who the HC at least will be.

The defense sucks and there is no fixing that anytime soon.

Most of the coaches will be gone after this season and RAC is just phoning it in while he collects those last few HC paychecks.

We have no draft picks till the third round.

Texans signed a guy and 11 days later traded him for a 7th and that was as active in trading as they got.

Every game we play in either we get stomped or it’s a shoot out with an equally crappy team.

So other than Watson what is there to talk about?
 
I can understand what you are saying. But I don't see it that way. To me, Watson would excel if he had someone managing the offense in a big picture way, who knows how to manage a game.

The play caller. He's got to know when to press the issue, when to lay back. When to hold them, when to fold them. & Watson has to trust that guy.

I know there are a lot of execution problems in Watson's game. I just think those issues start above his pay grade.
You could very well be right. Personally I think Watson would do best if he doesn’t have to worry about changing things up and can just focus on the pass and avoiding any rushers as needed. Biggest difference in Watson and Manning play style is Manning HAD to either throw it or change up the play to better protect him because if they got to him he wasn’t getting away. Watson is much more dangerous to blitz against because if you don’t catch him, which is hard to do, then he is going to get away and either run it himself of throw a bomb.

To use a comic book reference Manning was Batman who had to plan for every possible outcome and out think his opponent because in a straight up fight he was just a regular human. Watson is Superman who doesn’t have to plan and can charge in head first and still have a great chance at winning because his opponent has to overpower him.

I just think Watson would be best if a, for lack of a better term, simple, fast developing play is called and then he can jut wing it from there
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
People keep harping on “with O’Brien teaching you” as if OB was personally sitting down with Watson and trying to walk him through how to be a QB. Some of the mistakes we have seen Watson make, not sliding, not throwing the ball away, always going for the big play, are basic QB 101 things.
I'm talking about reading a defense and managing the expected outcome of the play called.

If you watched Mahomes from the beginning it was easy to see how Ried used a lot of tools often to chop the game up into manageable bites for him. Today you can see some of those things still being used, but not nearly as much. It's a steady progression from year to year.

Watson was told to play street ball his rookie year. Maybe Watson wasn't catching on in camp, I don't know. But it was O'brien's charge to get him ready. He wasn't.

His 2nd season through now, it's been straight pocket passer & do your thing if you have to. Maybe Watson just ain't learning in camp & practice. But during the game I don't see any of the techniques everyone else uses to chop the game into manageable bites to use as building blocks.

That's on O'Brien. That's what I see on game day. That's what I'm talking about.
 
I'm talking about reading a defense and managing the expected outcome of the play called.

If you watched Mahomes from the beginning it was easy to see how Ried used a lot of tools often to chop the game up into manageable bites for him. Today you can see some of those things still being used, but not nearly as much. It's a steady progression from year to year.

Watson was told to play street ball his rookie year. Maybe Watson wasn't catching on in camp, I don't know. But it was O'brien's charge to get him ready. He wasn't.

His 2nd season through now, it's been straight pocket passer & do your thing if you have to. Maybe Watson just ain't learning in camp & practice. But during the game I don't see any of the techniques everyone else uses to chop the game into manageable bites to use as building blocks.

That's on O'Brien. That's what I see on game day. That's what I'm talking about.
On this we agree managing the game was completely on OB and he rarely did a very good job of it. Why that was is a completely different debate, and not worth having, but yes not breaking the game into chunks hurt not only Watson but the team as a whole.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
True, it shouldn't take q QB 4 yrs to adjust to the speed of th game. That's the main issue though, after 4 yrs DW4 still doesn't process fast enough an no this doesn't mean I think DW4's the S-Word.
I don't think it's a problem with the speed of the game, or a problem processing.

Heck, I don't even think it's been 4 years. He wasn't asked to "process" his rookie season. He was told, "Take the ball & go."

So I'm counting 2018, 2019, & this is 2020. So even if you count his rookie season we're only halfway through his 4th year.

& the last 4 games... he's been processing pretty good. As good as any QB facing the 4 teams we faced.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
In the NFL QB's aren't brought along slowly anymore. I would say after 4 yrs DW4 has had enough time to adjust and learn. But it hasn't happened. Hopefully it happens with the next regime and DW4 has an epiphany.
Exactly how many more wins are the Texans, "you know this 4 year old Texans TEAM", supposed to have if Watson had adjusted according to your measurement? I'm really looking forward to this answer.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I just think Watson would be best if a, for lack of a better term, simple, fast developing play is called and then he can jut wing it from there
I think, at least I hope, Watson knows he can't be a winning QB in this league for long with that kind of approach. I think he wants to evolve but I think he's trying to hard to evolve too fast.

He's trying to play a way he's not particularly good at just yet. & then he puts himself in a situation where he has to play hero ball. I don't think this is sustainable either.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
I think, at least I hope, Watson knows he can't be a winning QB in this league for long with that kind of approach. I think he wants to evolve but I think he's trying to hard to evolve too fast.

He's trying to play a way he's not particularly good at just yet. & then he puts himself in a situation where he has to play hero ball. I don't think this is sustainable either.
I don't think he is or ever will be a pocket QB. He is not good enough at reading a D. And for all we know it could be his eye issue. But, he is fooled easily with coverage. He is better if he has to move some. And best when he rolls right and keeps moving. Throwing accoss his body to the left is a bad idea. Which is why an offense like the Run and Shoot would be great for him. Or an RPO. Sadly, the RPO can be an issue and often gets sniffed out by a D. The Run and Shoot I don't know if any HC would try it and if they did will it even work in today's NFL?
 

banned1976

All Pro
Apparently the Texans have talked to him twice. I can't find the article for the second time. He is good but as it says he is not a people person

Off-topic, off-topic, off-topic!!! Unless you tie it into something like this-“I heard from a source of mine that the Texans are interested in Dorsey for GM but Deshaun Watson said no.”
 

Earl34

All Pro
I just think Watson would be best if a, for lack of a better term, simple, fast developing play is called and then he can jut wing it from there
Out of curiosity, who is suppose to call the simple, fast developing play? Also, if that simple, fast developing play was called and Watson held onto the ball, who was suppose to chew him out in practice or when he came to the sidelines?

I recently read a story where Goff had gotten into the habit of locking on his first read and not going through his progressions. During practice, without telling the offense or Goff, Mcvay had defenders double teaming the first read. Forcing Goff to practice going through his progressions.

My point? I think O'Brien did a great job helping Watson understand NFL defenses. However, on the finer points of playing the QB position, I don't think O'Brien did as good a job as the other coaches with young QBs.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Exactly how many more wins are the Texans, "you know this 4 year old Texans TEAM", supposed to have if Watson had adjusted according to your measurement? I'm really looking forward to this answer.
I dont really care about W/L's at this point.

All that matters at this point is DW4 learning after 4 yrs so he can be better prepared when the next regime enters Kirby.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think, at least I hope, Watson knows he can't be a winning QB in this league for long with that kind of approach. I think he wants to evolve but I think he's trying to hard to evolve too fast.

He's trying to play a way he's not particularly good at just yet. & then he puts himself in a situation where he has to play hero ball. I don't think this is sustainable either.
31/2 yrs and he's trying to evolve to fast?

He's playing the way he's played his entire life and I dont see that changing anytime soon. Best we can hope for is DW4 evolves into McNabb.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Out of curiosity, who is suppose to call the simple, fast developing play? Also, if that simple, fast developing play was called and Watson held onto the ball, who was suppose to chew him out in practice or when he came to the sidelines?

I recently read a story where Goff had gotten into the habit of locking on his first read and not going through his progressions. During practice, without telling the offense or Goff, Mcvay had defenders double teaming the first read. Forcing Goff to practice going through his progressions.

My point? I think O'Brien did a great job helping Watson understand NFL defenses. However, on the finer points of playing the QB position, I don't think O'Brien did as good a job as the other coaches with young QBs.
What finer points?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
He is not good enough at reading a D. And for all we know it could be his eye issue. But, he is fooled easily with coverage.
You're not watching the right guy. The guy we're talking about, DeShaun Watson reads defenses just fine & isn't fooled often.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
31/2 yrs and he's trying to evolve to fast?

He's playing the way he's played his entire life and I dont see that changing anytime soon. Best we can hope for is DW4 evolves into McNabb.
I think if he'd play like McNabb it would help him become the player he wants to be. I agree, you can't go from what he was at Clemson to what Peyton Manning ended his career as in 3.5-4 years.

McNabb would be the perfect transitional style.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think if he'd play like McNabb it would help him become the player he wants to be. I agree, you can't go from what he was at Clemson to what Peyton Manning ended his career as in 3.5-4 years.

McNabb would be the perfect transitional style.
And still not be good enough to bring a championship to Kirby.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
You're not watching the right guy. The guy we're talking about, DeShaun Watson reads defenses just fine & isn't fooled often.
I have watched him since college and while he is getting better. He still is not the QB to look left and throw a dart to a target on the left. He is a great guy and QB on quick throws that are under the coverage. The plus side is he has gotten better since college. The down side is that a good or elite S/SS eat him alive. I have seen to many reads that he has to bring the ball down and run or throw it to a different WR. Because he didn't notice the safety help at the snap or before.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I have watched him since college and while he is getting better. He still is not the QB to look left and throw a dart to a target on the left. He is a great guy and QB on quick throws that are under the coverage. The plus side is he has gotten better since college. The down side is that a good or elite S/SS eat him alive. I have seen to many reads that he has to bring the ball down and run or throw it to a different WR. Because he didn't notice the safety help at the snap or before.
Have you seen he is among the best deep ball throwers in the league?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I dont really care about W/L's at this point.

All that matters at this point is DW4 learning after 4 yrs so he can be better prepared when the next regime enters Kirby.
Deshaun is further along this curve than you wish to give him credit for. The biggest problem, the Texans have regressed as an overall team each and every season since Watson arrived and this is directly on the shoulders of the GM’s, HC and his coaching staff. Outside of Watson.....which component of the Texans team could push this team to victory or preserve a victory?
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
Deshaun is further along this curve than you wish to give him credit for. The biggest problem, the Texans have regressed as an overall team each and every season since Watson arrived and this is directly on the shoulders of the GM’s, HC and his coaching staff. Outside of Watson.....which component of the Texans team could push this team to victory or preserve a victory?
Ability to read a D jumps out. Stats below.

This season, teams are playing more zone coverage against Watson and the Texans offense, which makes sense since they can keep an eye on the QB and keep the receivers in front of them.



However, Watson is shredding zone coverage averaging over nine yards per pass attempt while completing 70 percent of his passes. Against man, Watson’s numbers are pedestrian.



In particular, the Houston quarterback, in a limited sample size, has struggled to figure out cover-2 man coverage or two-man as it’s often called in football. And the Patriots are playing more two-man this season than in year’s past.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I thought this thread was about Texans trading or cutting players. Did I miss that Watson got cut or traded?
nah, it is the same old "how is the weather?"
reply: It is perfect; no it's not and either way it is O'Brien's fault and if McNairs were not so cheap they could buy a better day. Now let's argue about other perfect days in the last 20 years and who was responsible.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Ability to read a D jumps out. Stats below.

This season, teams are playing more zone coverage against Watson and the Texans offense, which makes sense since they can keep an eye on the QB and keep the receivers in front of them.



However, Watson is shredding zone coverage averaging over nine yards per pass attempt while completing 70 percent of his passes. Against man, Watson’s numbers are pedestrian.



In particular, the Houston quarterback, in a limited sample size, has struggled to figure out cover-2 man coverage or two-man as it’s often called in football. And the Patriots are playing more two-man this season than in year’s past.
You base everything on 15 selective snaps?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Not a chance of Watson winning a championship. That will be divide between Tannehill and Carr in the next decade. :brando:
I don’t see the Titans or the Raiders winning a SB any time soon. I think the Dolphins or Colts are in a better position to compete or elevate to the Chiefs or Ravens level over the next 2 seasons.
 
Is that only for Watson or are you doing the same for other QBs you compare him too?
Find a post where I compared him to another QB first. Unless you consider anytime someone uses an example as a comparison. In which case you know what those other QBs have that Watson doesn’t, a Super Bowl ring.
 


Top