FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

[steelbtexan]

But we have 5 years of proof. You're making it seem as if we're making these things up. You're turning a blind eye to all the negatives. Example: the benching of his hand picked quarterbacks. Lying about how ready Savage was when it was so clear this man shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Without Watson (a rookie might I add) we couldn't score over 13 points a game last season. So of course I was very Critical of O'brien's offense and play calling. Last game was the only time since last year ( during the time Watson was out there) this offense looked explosive.

4 yrs of proof with Ricky as GM.

Lets give Gaine a full draft class and make a judgement. I'm not sold at all on Devlin. I do think DT will help in the RZ.

If DT can help them get into the top 10 in RZ efficiecy the team will be much improved. Keeping Watson healthy is the key and I cant stand the OL play.

 

[Texansballer74]

The critique is OBrien builds bad offenses and is holding the team back.

If he finishes top 10 great, the critique is no longer true.

But I'd settle for top 20 at this point.

But we have 5 years of proof. You're making it seem as if we're making these things up. You're turning a blind eye to all the negatives. Example: the benching of his hand picked quarterbacks. Lying about how ready Savage was when it was so clear this man shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Without Watson (a rookie might I add) we couldn't score over 13 points a game last season. So of course I was very Critical of O'brien's offense and play calling. Last game was the only time since last year ( during the time Watson was out there) this offense looked explosive.

4 yrs of proof with Ricky as GM.

Lets give Gaine a full draft class and make a judgement. I'm not sold at all on Devlin. I do think DT will help in the RZ.

If DT can help them get into the top 10 in RZ efficiecy the team will be much improved. Keeping Watson healthy is the key and I cant stand the OL play.

Please deflecting everything to Rick Smith. Good grief man

 

[Mr teX]

But we have 5 years of proof. You're making it seem as if we're making these things up. You're turning a blind eye to all the negatives. Example: the benching of his hand picked quarterbacks. Lying about how ready Savage was when it was so clear this man shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Without Watson (a rookie might I add) we couldn't score over 13 points a game last season. So of course I was very Critical of O'brien's offense and play calling. Last game was the only time since last year ( during the time Watson was out there) this offense looked explosive.

Lol you may as well be. acting as if BoB and his offenses are immune to needing an elite trigger man to run it optimally. As if is the offense pre-Watson has been the same Post-Watson.......in weak attempts to bolster flawed arguments.

Ya’ll have tried to use everything under the sun to try to tear this dude down...& the only thing you guys have really done is show that he’s not perfect and he’s 100% the same as all the other HC in the NFL lol....

IOW, Petty ****.

 

[Texansballer74]

Lol you may as well be. acting as if BoB and his offenses are immune to needing an elite trigger man to run it optimally. As if is the offense pre-Watson has been the same Post-Watson.......in weak attempts to bolster flawed arguments.

Ya’ll have tried to use everything under the sun to try to tear this dude down...& the only thing you guys have really done is show that he’s not perfect and he’s 100% the same as all the other HC in the NFL lol....

IOW, Petty ****.

That's a negative, I've given Obrien his props so please miss me with that crap. You're just blind to the real facts. He hand picked that litter of QB'S he thought would effectively run his type of offense. You don't need an elite trigger man either.

And I surely hope you are not trying to call me petty because we're in disagreement over Bill O'Brien coaching.

 

[Mr teX]

That's a negative, I've given Obrien his props so please miss me with that crap. You're just blind to the real facts. He hand picked that litter of QB'S he thought would effectively run his type of offense. You don't need an elite trigger man either.

And I surely hope you are not trying to call me petty because we're in disagreement over Bill O'Brien coaching.

Not b/c we’re in disagreement..b/c the only thing you can harp on is trivial nonsense that every coach has done at 1 point or another.

You bring that petty crap up about him “handpicking” his QBs to bolster your weak argument while simultaneously telling others in here to give the Rick Smith argument a rest......as if Smith had nothing to do with those decisions..

Own your weak arguments dude.

 

[Texansballer74]

Not b/c we’re in disagreement..b/c the only thing you can harp on is trivial nonsense that every coach has done at 1 point or another.

You bring that petty crap up about him “handpicking” his QBs to bolster your weak argument while simultaneously telling others in here to give the Rick Smith argument a rest......as if Smith had nothing to do with those decisions..

Own your weak arguments dude.

What!!! Nothing about my argument is weak. You can take that bullshit somewhere else. Bwhahaha when has speaking facts become petty. You're the one being a disrespectful prick all because I don't share the same love affair towards a coach who hasn't proven **** yet. A coach who continues to make the same weak ash mistakes in big time games. I'm done talking to you, move around clown.

 

[Mr teX]

What!!! Nothing about my argument is weak. You can take that bullshit somewhere else. Bwhahaha when has speaking facts become petty. You're the one being a disrespectful prick all because I don't share the same love affair towards a coach who hasn't proven **** yet. A coach who continues to make the same weak ash mistakes in big time games. I'm done talking to you, move around clown.

tell us why u mad son. Must’ve touched a nerve there lol.

Don’t get upset b/c your argument is weak surface level analysis that ignores obvious key variables for it to be viable.

 

[steelbtexan]

But we have 5 years of proof. You're making it seem as if we're making these things up. You're turning a blind eye to all the negatives. Example: the benching of his hand picked quarterbacks. Lying about how ready Savage was when it was so clear this man shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Without Watson (a rookie might I add) we couldn't score over 13 points a game last season. So of course I was very Critical of O'brien's offense and play calling. Last game was the only time since last year ( during the time Watson was out there) this offense looked explosive.

Well, possibly Watson could be getting healthy again since the 12 mo's has passed since he tore his ACL and the OL has faced the toughest defenses they will face all yr after Sunday and Miller. Nah couldn't be any of that.



Please deflecting everything to Rick Smith. Good grief man

It's not deflecting,

Please give a Gaine/BOB aligned team atleast 1 full draft before making these posts, if they make the playoffs with the OT's/CB's Ricky left behind it will be a minor miracle.

 

[steelbtexan]

I just want to give an aligned team of Gaine/BOB a yr of draft and a yr of development to become a true contender. That doesn't mean they wont make the playoffs this yr. But their depth/OL says they aren't true contenders this yr although I think they will make the playoffs this yr provided Watson stays healthy.

 

[Shishkabob]

This whole chicken/egg convo is the exact reason McNair should have completely cleaned house when he got rid of Kubs.

 

[Uncle Rico]

tell us why u mad son. Must’ve touched a nerve there lol.

Don’t get upset b/c your argument is weak surface level analysis that ignores obvious key variables for it to be viable.

says the guy who's unwavering support of O'brien revolves around comments like "he is good at complimentary football and his belief in future failure is why he's good" or "i dont care about 4-7 round picks cuz they are throwaway picks" .... LOL What? (and you want to be taken seriously) you're good with Billy holding out guys in the preseason cuz of the 'injury bug' from last year so then its okay to dismiss the horrendous start of the season which most players were attributing to 'rust'? SMH .. so Bob wants to run the ball? Nooo what makes you think that? The stupid 20 inside dives per game with Miller? Or the other 10 with Blue? SMH I guess Bob is good at "getting sparks" huh? Yea these are real cold hard facts about Bill OBrien and his positives. Keep going so that I dont keep 'moving goalposts'?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/
https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

when I posted that it was conveniently ignored and is the most damning criticism of OBrien yet and you continue to believe whatever YOU want to believe and then accuse others of fabricating. That is called PIGHEADED. Since this is all soo 'surface level' for you then enlighten the board with your profound intellectual posits about OBrien. I went back '6 or 7' pages of your posts and see nothing more than vague rhetoric. Your claim that 'all coaches' make the mistakes Obrien has made is also a broad subjective stroke that insulates you from criticism. Of 'all those coaches' how many of them are guilty of CONTINUALLY making the same mistakes?

That is all UP TO THIS POINT.

Again my side is that winning cures all, plenty coaches have been MEDIOCRE AT BEST and had their favorite GM sign another handful of All Pro's and then everyone is happy. You cant deny all his problems UP TO THIS POINT, its a losing argument because it the game management mistakes on the field have nothing to do with Rick Smith or Brian Gaine that is all Bill O'Brien.

BILL OBRIEN CAN REDEEM HIMSELF but if he continues to commit incompetent mistake after incompetent mistake, then its insanity to keep him around because of 'deep level' personality good guy traits or RAH RAH antics.

 

[DBCooper]

I thought this thread was about hating OB

Statisticians locked in cubicles all day.

 

[JB]

Statisticians locked in cubicles all day.

Sorry, that one flew over me... just got off work

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

This whole chicken/egg convo is the exact reason McNair should have completely cleaned house when he got rid of Kubs.

This whole chicken/egg convo is the exact reason McNair should have completely cleaned house when he got rid of Rick Smith.

 

[steelbtexan]

says the guy who's unwavering support of O'brien revolves around comments like "he is good at complimentary football and his belief in future failure is why he's good" or "i dont care about 4-7 round picks cuz they are throwaway picks" .... LOL What? (and you want to be taken seriously) you're good with Billy holding out guys in the preseason cuz of the 'injury bug' from last year so then its okay to dismiss the horrendous start of the season which most players were attributing to 'rust'? SMH .. so Bob wants to run the ball? Nooo what makes you think that? The stupid 20 inside dives per game with Miller? Or the other 10 with Blue? SMH I guess Bob is good at "getting sparks" huh? Yea these are real cold hard facts about Bill OBrien and his positives. Keep going so that I dont keep 'moving goalposts'?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/
https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

when I posted that it was conveniently ignored and is the most damning criticism of OBrien yet and you continue to believe whatever YOU want to believe and then accuse others of fabricating. That is called PIGHEADED. Since this is all soo 'surface level' for you then enlighten the board with your profound intellectual posits about OBrien. I went back '6 or 7' pages of your posts and see nothing more than vague rhetoric. Your claim that 'all coaches' make the mistakes Obrien has made is also a broad subjective stroke that insulates you from criticism. Of 'all those coaches' how many of them are guilty of CONTINUALLY making the same mistakes?

That is all UP TO THIS POINT.

Again my side is that winning cures all, plenty coaches have been MEDIOCRE AT BEST and had their favorite GM sign another handful of All Pro's and then everyone is happy. You cant deny all his problems UP TO THIS POINT, its a losing argument because it the game management mistakes on the field have nothing to do with Rick Smith or Brian Gaine that is all Bill O'Brien.

BILL OBRIEN CAN REDEEM HIMSELF but if he continues to commit incompetent mistake after incompetent mistake, then its insanity to keep him around because of 'deep level' personality good guy traits or RAH RAH antics.

So you must really hate Andy Reid.

 

[steelbtexan]

This whole chicken/egg convo is the exact reason McNair should have completely cleaned house when he got rid of Rick Smith.

If he would've gotten rid of Ricky when he got rid of Kubes, maybe the franchise wouldn't still be stuck in mediocrity. Good thing is we will get chance to find out how good this franchise can be without Ricky in a couple of yrs.

 

[76Texan]

If he would've gotten rid of Ricky when he got rid of Kubes, maybe the franchise wouldn't still be stuck in mediocrity. Good thing is we will get chance to find out how good this franchise can be without Ricky in a couple of yrs.

I don't see how we can differentiate when so many current good-great players on this team were from from the Smith's era.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

If he would've gotten rid of Ricky when he got rid of Kubes, maybe the franchise wouldn't still be stuck in mediocrity. Good thing is we will get chance to find out how good this franchise can be without Ricky in a couple of yrs.

My general thought is that if an organization is going to present itself one with a corporate decision making structure then it seems best to hold people accountable corporately..i.e. when one decision maker goes then the other goes with him. In my world, Smith/Kubes and Smith/ BOB should have happened. At least contract wise, BOB/Gaine are aligned currently, but we have seen that change when Smith backstabbed... threw under the bus...I mean Kubes was let go for poor performance.

 

[JB]

I don't see how we can differentiate when so many current good-great players on this team were from from the Smith's era.

Mid- round picks = depth

 

[TheKDog]

Just so we can come back to this conversation at the end of the year, in your opinion, what are the data points that the offense needs to be top 10 in your eyes?

Points? Yards? Red Zone efficiency? DVOA? Number of offensive possessions divided by total offensive touchdowns? Average yards per first down play? Scoring efficiency when the roof is open? Rushing yards between the tackles on the road discounting any defense in Cover 2? Only against top 10 defenses?

Set your parameters. Not saying the Texans will hit any of them, but at least we won't have subjective critique or

Dvoa is fine

 

[Scooter]

If he would've gotten rid of Ricky when he got rid of Kubes, maybe the franchise wouldn't still be stuck in mediocrity. Good thing is we will get chance to find out how good this franchise can be without Ricky in a couple of yrs.

Twin 12yd max-protect curl routes has nothing to do with talent, but ... Rick Smith.

 

[beerlover]

I don't see how we can differentiate when so many current good-great players on this team were from from the Smith's era.

Results based off sample size. Better be some good to great players on this roster from Smith era or Houston would be Cleveland. Trading for Watson was by far best move and he gets prop for that, same time missing on so many mid round picks is reason why Texan roster still lacks depth after all those drafts and years to address needs (OL, Secondary).

In only his first draft, with no first or second round picks, Gaine has hit on almost as many prospects, mid-round, as Smith did in his entire tenure (know somebody will count them up). Point is, it was time to move on and Gaine some better talent across the board.

 

[Uncle Rico]

So you must really hate Andy Reid.

At least he's made it to a championship game and excels at drafting and developing quarterbacks and continues to expand and roll out ingenious playbooks. Yup Andy Reid has plenty of brainfarts managerially, but everything else makes him a + coach. Have you ever checked out Andy Reids coach tree? Crazy how many good quality coaches have come from his system. Good point thanks for bringing it up!

Bill Obrien coach tree? Its like the game hangman LOL

 

[Uncle Rico]

Dvoa is fine

based on that the TExans are 7% worse than average offensively and 11% better than average defensively. 9th worst offensive DVOA in the league. 5th best defensively. Surprised? I didnt think you would be.

 

[Texansballer74]

says the guy who's unwavering support of O'brien revolves around comments like "he is good at complimentary football and his belief in future failure is why he's good" or "i dont care about 4-7 round picks cuz they are throwaway picks" .... LOL What? (and you want to be taken seriously) you're good with Billy holding out guys in the preseason cuz of the 'injury bug' from last year so then its okay to dismiss the horrendous start of the season which most players were attributing to 'rust'? SMH .. so Bob wants to run the ball? Nooo what makes you think that? The stupid 20 inside dives per game with Miller? Or the other 10 with Blue? SMH I guess Bob is good at "getting sparks" huh? Yea these are real cold hard facts about Bill OBrien and his positives. Keep going so that I dont keep 'moving goalposts'?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/
https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

when I posted that it was conveniently ignored and is the most damning criticism of OBrien yet and you continue to believe whatever YOU want to believe and then accuse others of fabricating. That is called PIGHEADED. Since this is all soo 'surface level' for you then enlighten the board with your profound intellectual posits about OBrien. I went back '6 or 7' pages of your posts and see nothing more than vague rhetoric. Your claim that 'all coaches' make the mistakes Obrien has made is also a broad subjective stroke that insulates you from criticism. Of 'all those coaches' how many of them are guilty of CONTINUALLY making the same mistakes?

That is all UP TO THIS POINT.

Again my side is that winning cures all, plenty coaches have been MEDIOCRE AT BEST and had their favorite GM sign another handful of All Pro's and then everyone is happy. You cant deny all his problems UP TO THIS POINT, its a losing argument because it the game management mistakes on the field have nothing to do with Rick Smith or Brian Gaine that is all Bill O'Brien.

BILL OBRIEN CAN REDEEM HIMSELF but if he continues to commit incompetent mistake after incompetent mistake, then its insanity to keep him around because of 'deep level' personality good guy traits or RAH RAH antics.

Well said Rico.

 

[steelbtexan]

I don't see how we can differentiate when so many current good-great players on this team were from from the Smith's era.

Oh you can if you try.

You should have already seen a difference in how talent is being acquired and things that have sucked for years have already been fixed. ST's is a great example.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Some people would conserve their productive time and preserve their health by accepting the reality that O'Brien is not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[76Texan]

Oh you can if you try.

You should have already seen a difference in how talent is being acquired and things that have sucked for years have already been fixed. ST's is a great example.

True, but the core of great-good players would still be here, on both offense and defense.

 

[76Texan]

Results based off sample size. Better be some good to great players on this roster from Smith era or Houston would be Cleveland. Trading for Watson was by far best move and he gets prop for that, same time missing on so many mid round picks is reason why Texan roster still lacks depth after all those drafts and years to address needs (OL, Secondary).

In only his first draft, with no first or second round picks, Gaine has hit on almost as many prospects, mid-round, as Smith did in his entire tenure (know somebody will count them up). Point is, it was time to move on and Gaine some better talent across the board.

Smith might have been able to add pieces, too.
We just don't know because he's not here any more.

We can also say that if O'Brien is a better OC/HC, the guys that Smith assemble could have done a better job.

On the flip side, the QB's mess was all OB's.
As you said, Smith solved it for him by getting rid of Osweiler for a pick that eventually helped landed Watson.

 

[MightyTExan]

Some people would conserve their productive time and preserve their health by accepting the reality that O'Brien is not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Shishkabob]

Wade Smith on Bill O'Brien...
Crennel gives the media more, he doesn’t have to do assume the role that the head coach does. I think a lot of times Bill O’Brien says the stuff that he says in press conferences is so that the attention of the media is always ON HIM… and not on the players. That’s smart. You want to take as much attention and distraction away from the players as possible. Like, you know, I’m gonna put it on my shoulders so [the media] will be pissed off AT ME. I don’t care. So if you guys are mad at me and you’re complaining that I don’t give good press conferences, you’re not bitching and complaining about this guy that didn’t get a block or this guy’s coverage.

Players definitely love that about a coach that is not going to sell them out to the media. The players want their coaches to hold them accountable one-on-one or within the group… not outside the building.

I always respected the coaches that will say one thing to the media and say something completely different to us. Because when you’re in an organization, you’re part of a team. It’s us against everybody. We don’t care what goes on outside of this room. What matters is what WE do, because WE are going to determine whether we win or lose ball games each and every day. Nothing else matters.

His relationship with the players… To a man, I’ve never heard a guy that was in the locker room with Bill O’Brien that told me they didn’t like him. They told me specifically, "Wade, you would have liked him if you played for him."

Those are the things that come out directly from the players. They respect him. And they know that he respects them as players, and as men. So when you have a coach that there is like that you gonna play for him and you’re gonna give it for him. It was the same way when Kubiak was here.

 

[Shishkabob]

If he would've gotten rid of Ricky when he got rid of Kubes, maybe the franchise wouldn't still be stuck in mediocrity. Good thing is we will get chance to find out how good this franchise can be without Ricky in a couple of yrs.

I am deeply upset that you quoted me, but it said ArlingtonTexan said it lol

 

[Uncle Rico]

https://twitter.com/notcoachobrien?lang=en

lets bring a little levity to the discussion.

My fave:

My strategy was simple. Play poor offense on purpose, punt to goalline then score a defensive touchdown. You're going to like the new BOB

 

[Shishkabob]

https://twitter.com/notcoachobrien?lang=en

lets bring a little levity to the discussion.

My fave:

lol plan was executed perfectly

 

[beerlover]

Smith might have been able to add pieces, too.
We just don't know because he's not here any more.

We can also say that if O'Brien is a better OC/HC, the guys that Smith assemble could have done a better job.

On the flip side, the QB's mess was all OB's.
As you said, Smith solved it for him by getting rid of Osweiler for a pick that eventually helped landed Watson.

Agree with everything but bolded statement. Dude, c'mon he had 10 years!

Rick Smith was brought in after Casserly's last draft in 06. Go ahead and blame coaching if you want, not that Capers was any better (but did go to Green Bay as DC and help them win a Super Bowl next year, even Kubiak had success going back to Denver, post Texan tenure) fact is Rick Smith missed on more mid round picks than I care to discuss or remember http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/texans

Again I'm not after him for first round selections or even seconds, its the meat and potato mid round prospects were player evaluation becomes far more "art of" than this BPA nonsense, I mean who's to say best player available for scheme, or highest ceiling based on aggregate of numbers from scouting staff alone, you have to have a real feel, a gift to be a truly great NFL talent evaluator and Smith didn't have that, he was more of just another front office guy in my view, who coordinates with his associates besides coaching staff, cap manager and medical staff, not to mention cuddling up to ownership.

 

[Shishkabob]

Agree with everything but bolded statement. Dude, c'mon he had 10 years!

Rick Smith was brought in after Casserly's last draft in 06. Go ahead and blame coaching if you want, not that Capers was any better (but did go to Green Bay as DC and help them win a Super Bowl next year, even Kubiak had success going back to Denver, post Texan tenure) fact is Rick Smith missed on more mid round picks than I care to discuss or remember http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/texans

Again I'm not after him for first round selections or even seconds, its the meat and potato mid round prospects were player evaluation becomes far more "art of" than this BPA nonsense, I mean who's to say best player available for scheme, or highest ceiling based on aggregate of numbers from scouting staff alone, you have to have a real feel, a gift to be a truly great NFL talent evaluator and Smith didn't have that, he was more of just another front office guy in my view, who coordinates with his associates besides coaching staff, cap manager and medical staff, not to mention cuddling up to ownership.

Without Rick, we might never have signed Osweiler. Without Osweiler we most assuredly would have drafted Paxton Lynch, Dak Prescott, or OB's old buddy Christian Hackenburg. If we drafted one of them we would have been still trying to fix them in 2017 instead of drafting Deshuan Watson. Rick knew his plan all along to bring DW4 to Houston Rick Smith the goat confirmed, Rick Smith Illuminati confirmed

 

[76Texan]

Without Rick, we might never have signed Osweiler. Without Osweiler we most assuredly would have drafted Paxton Lynch, Dak Prescott, or OB's old buddy Christian Hackenburg. If we drafted one of them we would have been still trying to fix them in 2017 instead of drafting Deshuan Watson. Rick knew his plan all along to bring DW4 to Houston Rick Smith the goat confirmed, Rick Smith Illuminati confirmed

LOL. Funny.

 

[76Texan]

Agree with everything but bolded statement. Dude, c'mon he had 10 years!

Rick Smith was brought in after Casserly's last draft in 06. Go ahead and blame coaching if you want, not that Capers was any better (but did go to Green Bay as DC and help them win a Super Bowl next year, even Kubiak had success going back to Denver, post Texan tenure) fact is Rick Smith missed on more mid round picks than I care to discuss or remember http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/texans

Again I'm not after him for first round selections or even seconds, its the meat and potato mid round prospects were player evaluation becomes far more "art of" than this BPA nonsense, I mean who's to say best player available for scheme, or highest ceiling based on aggregate of numbers from scouting staff alone, you have to have a real feel, a gift to be a truly great NFL talent evaluator and Smith didn't have that, he was more of just another front office guy in my view, who coordinates with his associates besides coaching staff, cap manager and medical staff, not to mention cuddling up to ownership.

IDK.
Smith seems to be mediocre, that's for sure.
But the coaches also need to develop some talent.
And we have yet to see an Olineman emerging under OB.
Kubiak brought out Myers and Newton, two lowly draft picks.
Can't say the same for O'Brien.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Without Rick, we might never have signed Osweiler. Without Osweiler we most assuredly would have drafted Paxton Lynch, Dak Prescott, or OB's old buddy Christian Hackenburg. If we drafted one of them we would have been still trying to fix them in 2017 instead of drafting Deshuan Watson. Rick knew his plan all along to bring DW4 to Houston Rick Smith the goat confirmed, Rick Smith Illuminati confirmed

Did you forget the sarcasm emoticon?

 

[Texansballer74]

Agree with everything but bolded statement. Dude, c'mon he had 10 years!

Rick Smith was brought in after Casserly's last draft in 06. Go ahead and blame coaching if you want, not that Capers was any better (but did go to Green Bay as DC and help them win a Super Bowl next year, even Kubiak had success going back to Denver, post Texan tenure) fact is Rick Smith missed on more mid round picks than I care to discuss or remember http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/texans

Again I'm not after him for first round selections or even seconds, its the meat and potato mid round prospects were player evaluation becomes far more "art of" than this BPA nonsense, I mean who's to say best player available for scheme, or highest ceiling based on aggregate of numbers from scouting staff alone, you have to have a real feel, a gift to be a truly great NFL talent evaluator and Smith didn't have that, he was more of just another front office guy in my view, who coordinates with his associates besides coaching staff, cap manager and medical staff, not to mention cuddling up to ownership.

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith not doing his job. Do some of yall hate this dude that much? I mean we needed a QB and Brock was considered the best of that crop that year. We needed a deep threat so he drafted Fuller. We needed a QB so he drafted Watson. So please stop assuming this man wouldn't have went out and added a reciever once Fuller went down.

 

[Mr teX]

says the guy who's unwavering support of O'brien revolves around comments like "he is good at complimentary football and his belief in future failure is why he's good" or "i dont care about 4-7 round picks cuz they are throwaway picks" .... LOL What? (and you want to be taken seriously) you're good with Billy holding out guys in the preseason cuz of the 'injury bug' from last year so then its okay to dismiss the horrendous start of the season which most players were attributing to 'rust'? SMH .. so Bob wants to run the ball? Nooo what makes you think that? The stupid 20 inside dives per game with Miller? Or the other 10 with Blue? SMH I guess Bob is good at "getting sparks" huh? Yea these are real cold hard facts about Bill OBrien and his positives. Keep going so that I dont keep 'moving goalposts'?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/
https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

when I posted that it was conveniently ignored and is the most damning criticism of OBrien yet and you continue to believe whatever YOU want to believe and then accuse others of fabricating. That is called PIGHEADED. Since this is all soo 'surface level' for you then enlighten the board with your profound intellectual posits about OBrien. I went back '6 or 7' pages of your posts and see nothing more than vague rhetoric. Your claim that 'all coaches' make the mistakes Obrien has made is also a broad subjective stroke that insulates you from criticism. Of 'all those coaches' how many of them are guilty of CONTINUALLY making the same mistakes?

That is all UP TO THIS POINT.

Again my side is that winning cures all, plenty coaches have been MEDIOCRE AT BEST and had their favorite GM sign another handful of All Pro's and then everyone is happy. You cant deny all his problems UP TO THIS POINT, its a losing argument because it the game management mistakes on the field have nothing to do with Rick Smith or Brian Gaine that is all Bill O'Brien.

BILL OBRIEN CAN REDEEM HIMSELF but if he continues to commit incompetent mistake after incompetent mistake, then its insanity to keep him around because of 'deep level' personality good guy traits or RAH RAH antics.

im flattered that you wrote all that for me...Still doesn't change the fact that you guys' arguments are weak as hell & are purposely surface level to suit it.

makes me laugh honestly.

Love to point out all these things with qualifiers attached to them to make your arguments, but don't realize that that same tactic can be used on the other side. Ok, Crennel's defenses have been good & the offense largely under BoB has been shitty & "holding the team back"...Ok..whatever. So lets look at Crennel's defenses when they weren't beating up on the little sisters of the poor in the regular or post seasons.

- In 9 games against the likes of Cam, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson & Rothlisberger his defenses have given up an avg of 29 ppg. & this is excluding Andrew Luck when he was healthy & Eli & the Giants. adding those games in likely pushes that average higher. Just adding the 2 giants games alone would probably do it considering that The Giants scored an average of 29 ppg in the 2 meetings.

- In 3 games against the Chiefs in BoB's tenure, Crennel's defenses have given up an avg of 28 ppg..to Alex friggin Smith.

Perhaps the most damning, In 5 games against the Pats his defenses have given up an avg of 30 ppg.

Holding back my ass.....The surface level end of year stats and rankings look great for Crennel..but his defenses have typically gotten torched when they've had to stand up to good qb play.


As for your other drivel..We just got thru watching the greatest HC of our era, sit his best cb in the biggest game of his teams' season. For what? I still don't think anyone really knows what for. Think that was a personnel mistake on his part?

As highly regarded of an offensive mind Andy Reid is, he has made numerous "game management" & play calling blunders over his 20+ year HC career that many have written about & say have really cost his team games. Not the differences in strategy you guys are talking about. & These aren't one-off, ever now & then things either. These things happen every damn year with him.

& as great as Sean Payton has been with his offenses he's run thru what 5 DC's over a decade plus HC career b/c every damn year his defenses have largely stunk? He's so brilliant..........he just can't pick a good DC huh...

These are guys whom have been to the mountain top & have largely had control over every aspect of their teams personnel and development. Meanwhile, you clowns are in here bitching about **** you’re not even 100% sure was on BoB or the trash GM he had to work with....Bitching about **** that HC's whom have upwards of 10+ years of experience & tons more success are still screwing up on...................& screwing up on regularly.

As I've said, i could care less what happens with BoB. Ya'll need to get real tho. If you think you're not going to be having the same "issues" with another guy in here, you're delusional.
BoB will get fired soon enough...Right now though? ya'll look silly..especially in light of what's going on with the team now.

 

[Mr teX]

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith not doing his job. Do some of yall hate this dude that much? I mean we needed a QB and Brock was considered the best of that crop that year. We needed a deep threat so he drafted Fuller. We needed a QB so he drafted Watson. So please stop assuming this man wouldn't have went out and added a reciever once Fuller went down.

Lol..............HE HAD 12 DAMN YEARS TO BRING THOSE GUYS IN. You and I could draft & put together a team with more talent in that timeframe. The other thing is If he had been let go when Kubes was................. like he should've been, he wouldn't even deserve the credit for drafting over 1/2 of the names you listed above.

 

[Shishkabob]

Did you forget the sarcasm emoticon?

yea I can never find it

 

[TheKDog]

Eureka! I've found something!

https://www.battleredblog.com/houst...-know-this-about-the-texans-under-bill-obrien

How much is it defense? How much is it offense? Does that mean his teams can't play from behind? WHO CARES!? I found a tangible positive! It's like finding the lost ark!

Although this stat also means the Texans have been behind at halftime in 45 out of 72 Bill Obrien coached games.

And their record is 10-35 in those games.

 

[Texansballer74]

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith

Lol..............HE HAD 12 DAMN YEARS TO BRING THOSE GUYS IN. You and I could draft & put together a team with more talent in that timeframe. The other thing is If he had been let go when Kubes was................. like he should've been, he wouldn't even deserve the credit for drafting over 1/2 of the names you listed above.

So freaking what, he did his freaking job. It's up to the coaches to coach these freaking players up. Kubiak stubborn ash had his team where they needed to be. But hell that's not my point. Smith helped put together enough talent for us to succeed then and now.

And I highly doubt that because the draft and FA will always be a hit and miss. It's how they are coached and the players execute. Examples: look at all the talent on the Browns and Jacksonville. But are not doing skit with it.

 

[Mr teX]

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith



So freaking what, he did his freaking job. It's up to the coaches to coach these freaking players up. Kubiak stubborn ash had his team where they needed to be. But hell that's not my point. Smith helped put together enough talent for us to succeed then and now.

And I highly doubt that because the draft and FA will always be a hit and miss. It's how they are coached and the players execute. Examples: look at all the talent on the Browns and Jacksonville. But are not doing skit with it.

Kubiak wasn’t coaching **** up when he was working with the likes of Chris Taylor, Sage Rosenfels, Vernand Morency and Keyshawn Martin. There’s also a reason he went right over to Denver and in 2 years was a SB winning HC. I’ll give u a hint: it wasn’t b/c he was such an awesome HC.

Look, If u don’t understand that taking 12 years to amass a decent core of talent is subpar as hell and that there are limits to “coaching a player up” then there’s nothing else we need to talk about.

We’ve been down this road with u bringing up Kubiak having his team where they “needed to be” and it’s been proven to be utterly false. It wasn’t until he got a premium talent in Arian Foster that his teams even began to look like something..... by then Kubiak had been on the job for 4 years. Where was all this great coaching up at by him with the likes of Wali Lundy prior to that? Talent matters and Furthermore Smith nor Kubiak should get credit for bringing Foster in because he chose the Texans on his own as an UDFA to sign here. I’m fairly sure I’ve heard him say that he had at least 2 other teams that wanted him.

Boiling it down and saying “he did his job” is way too simplistic and significantly underscores how his drafting and FA moves over the years repeatedly set this team back every time it appeared we had a little momentum. That’s why we keep bringing him up.

 

[beerlover]

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith not doing his job. Do some of yall hate this dude that much? I mean we needed a QB and Brock was considered the best of that crop that year. We needed a deep threat so he drafted Fuller. We needed a QB so he drafted Watson. So please stop assuming this man wouldn't have went out and added a reciever once Fuller went down.

You do realize most of those mentioned were first round picks? And no, over his 10 year track record he wouldn’t, at least one of DK quality!

 

[TheKDog]

Kubiak's Texans offenses by DVOA:
2006- 21
2007- 15
2008- 13
2009- 10
2010- 2
2011- 9
2012- 16
2013- 29

Basically, only 1 year was his offense in the Bottom 10, and only twice was he not in the top half of the league. O'Brien has been bottom 10 5 years in a row.

(Schaub suffered the lisfranc injury at the end of 2011. He was extended against Kubiak's wishes IMO).

For good measure, here are the Baltimore offenses before, during, and after Kubiak.

2013- 30
2014 (Kubiak as OC)- 9
2015- 20

 

[JB]

So who brought Watt, Mercilus, Cumminghan, Fuller, Watson, Miller, Jojo, Kareem Jackson, Reader, Martin, Mancz, Clowney and host of other players. I really don't understand this narrative about Smith



So freaking what, he did his freaking job. It's up to the coaches to coach these freaking players up. Kubiak stubborn ash had his team where they needed to be. But hell that's not my point. Smith helped put together enough talent for us to succeed then and now.

And I highly doubt that because the draft and FA will always be a hit and miss. It's how they are coached and the players execute. Examples: look at all the talent on the Browns and Jacksonville. But are not doing skit with it.

Rickey?

 

[Scooter]

Kubiak wasn’t coaching **** up when he was working with the likes of Chris Taylor, Sage Rosenfels, Vernand Morency and Keyshawn Martin. There’s also a reason he went right over to Denver and in 2 years was a SB winning HC. I’ll give u a hint: it wasn’t b/c he was such an awesome HC.

Look, If u don’t understand that taking 12 years to amass a decent core of talent is subpar as hell and that there are limits to “coaching a player up” then there’s nothing else we need to talk about.

We’ve been down this road with u bringing up Kubiak having his team where they “needed to be” and it’s been proven to be utterly false. It wasn’t until he got a premium talent in Arian Foster that his teams even began to look like something..... by then Kubiak had been on the job for 4 years. Where was all this great coaching up at by him with the likes of Wali Lundy prior to that? Talent matters and Furthermore Smith nor Kubiak should get credit for bringing Foster in because he chose the Texans on his own as an UDFA to sign here. I’m fairly sure I’ve heard him say that he had at least 2 other teams that wanted him.

Boiling it down and saying “he did his job” is way too simplistic and significantly underscores how his drafting and FA moves over the years repeatedly set this team back every time it appeared we had a little momentum. That’s why we keep bringing him up.

Since I'm apparently his number one fan and post in this thread every day, the loss is perspective. The Houston Texans as a franchise were 5 years old and in worse shape than they were in year 1 as an expansion team regarding talent when Kubiak took over, and were over the cap, and had just extended David Carr, and had just hired Sherman and several of his aging useless players to compound the problem for a few more years. No SH!T it took time. Not every pick was a homerun (seriously?), but it was obviously growing. OBVIOUSLY growing. It was still growing when we were putting 9 players in the ProBowl (I think O'Brien inherited all of them). It was still growing when we could at any time have the #1 Receiver, Tightend, Runningback or Quarterback in a season - and combinations within (O'Brien inherited all of them). Still growing when we could have two 1,000yd rushers on the team in a season. It was still growing when we were 10-6 and 12-4.

It was still growing when McNair thought he was the reason we were winning and started showing up on tv and in camp and giving pep talks and approving promos and flying in defensive players without his DC knowing and holding press conferences to tell the media who our starting QB is. That crap had to go away and it did, quickly. All we needed was someone who could continue that growth. Someone who could use the 1 & 33 to resume our future without anchoring themselves at one bad year, and instead continue on from 10-6 to 12-4 to a series of playoff runs. Instead we kept dumping talent without having replacements, anchored to bad season.

We got a TE coach who can't coach TE's, a QB coach who's claim to fame is 'remember when he yelled at Brady?' with a Browns-esque series of crap (including Brown's crap) until Smith attacks the draft for a QB, and an offensive coordinator who is almost the only New England coach without a Superbowl ring. 4 years NFL experience, no coaching tree (Devlin is the UPGRADE), and you would probably be the only person on the planet that would disagree with the fact that Romeo using Wade/Kubiak's talent is the only reason we've been over 5 wins these past 5 years.

What's O'Brien's excuse? Walked into a great roster, great line, two #1 receivers, a #1 tightend with competent backups, a monstrous defense with the good fortune of a pro like Romeo to coach them, the #1 pick in the draft and damn ... I'm pretty sure throwing darts at a Madden playbook could get to 9 wins for a couple years with all that (assuming the head coach wasn't dumb enough to begin a blind purge). We keep going downhill. Relying more and more on pure talent to save us (Watson moving around to wait for a 17yd out to finally break or twin max-protect 20yd comebacks). You've never actually said anything football related and like a politician defer to blaming elsewhere instead of defending your position, so I don't actually expect a response.

Call me the Kubiak fan all yall want. 5 rings speaks for itsself, the series of Hall of Famers are able to speak pretty loudly as well. I also speak for myself with the coaches that I've supported - Shanahan and Pederson being the most recent that I know I've posted about, but there are plenty more. I'm not trying to preach Kubiak ... I want a good coach for my team - that's not O'Brien.

(5 paragraphs, let's guess how long Scoot has been drinking lol)