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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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TheKDog said:
Makes sense he would think this because the defense is always making up for the offensive failures.
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Watson career games - 15

Offense scoring less than 20 points in those 15 games - 4
Defense giving up 27 or more points in those 15 games - 7

Average score by Texans in 15 career games - 27.5
Average score by opponents in 15 career games - 23.7

"Always"
 
And after all the hot air these pro Bob guys still cant identify even a basic positive trait. Having your team prepared before the first snap? How often does this team look lost to start a game? Usually have to battle just to make it a contest. These guys want to go all the way back to last year to concede any coaching discrepancy resulting in possible losses aginst NE and SEA, but hell in game 1 this year Billy allowed the Patriots to run hurry up on a Gronk catch was probably not a catch, but Bob still didnt think it was 'his job' to challenge a play like that.

whats the excuse for that? "well cmon guys, Bill is such a nice guy, he really means well, and even though his offense has never been ranked in the top 10 im sure at some point over the next 5 years he will get it together, you dont want to miss out on the next Bill Belichek"

SMH.

but yeahh woo hoo 5 game win streak, thankfully we dont play any competent teams the remainder of the season so the annual playoff embarassment is still in order, I dont think we will have a backup QB to save the day like the game against Oakland the last time Obriens defense, I mean team made it that far.

Just ******* win.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And after all the hot air these pro Bob guys still cant identify even a basic positive trait. Having your team prepared before the first snap? How often does this team look lost to start a game? Usually have to battle just to make it a contest. These guys want to go all the way back to last year to concede any coaching discrepancy resulting in possible losses aginst NE and SEA, but hell in game 1 this year Billy allowed the Patriots to run hurry up on a Gronk catch was probably not a catch, but Bob still didnt think it was 'his job' to challenge a play like that.

whats the excuse for that? "well cmon guys, Bill is such a nice guy, he really means well, and even though his offense has never been ranked in the top 10 im sure at some point over the next 5 years he will get it together, you dont want to miss out on the next Bill Belichek"

SMH.

but yeahh woo hoo 5 game win streak, thankfully we dont play any competent teams the remainder of the season so the annual playoff embarassment is still in order, I dont think we will have a backup QB to save the day like the game against Oakland the last time Obriens defense, I mean team made it that far.

Just ******* win.
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Those were identified some 6-7 pages back by me....you and a few others just don’t accept it.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And after all the hot air these pro Bob guys still cant identify even a basic positive trait. Having your team prepared before the first snap? How often does this team look lost to start a game? Usually have to battle just to make it a contest. These guys want to go all the way back to last year to concede any coaching discrepancy resulting in possible losses aginst NE and SEA, but hell in game 1 this year Billy allowed the Patriots to run hurry up on a Gronk catch was probably not a catch, but Bob still didnt think it was 'his job' to challenge a play like that.

whats the excuse for that? "well cmon guys, Bill is such a nice guy, he really means well, and even though his offense has never been ranked in the top 10 im sure at some point over the next 5 years he will get it together, you dont want to miss out on the next Bill Belichek"

SMH.

but yeahh woo hoo 5 game win streak, thankfully we dont play any competent teams the remainder of the season so the annual playoff embarassment is still in order, I dont think we will have a backup QB to save the day like the game against Oakland the last time Obriens defense, I mean team made it that far.

Just ******* win.
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Through the first half of 2018:

Total offense - 379 yards per game, ranked 15th. The #10 team (Chicago) is averaging 382, a three yard per game difference.

Total rushing offense - 123 yards per game, ranked 11th. The #10 team (Chargers) is averaging 124, a one yard per game difference.

So on the season, the Texans are not a top 10 offense by less than 25 total yards and not a top 10 rushing offense by less than 10 total yards. And this is with Watson being hobbled for a couple of games.

Think about that. I'm not saying OB's offensive scheme is anything to emulate right now. But you have such a confirmation bias loaded into the seriatim ranking of offenses that you are making a specious argument over a 0.8% deviation.
 
sandman said:
Through the first half of 2018:

Total offense - 379 yards per game, ranked 15th. The #10 team (Chicago) is averaging 382, a three yard per game difference.

Total rushing offense - 123 yards per game, ranked 11th. The #10 team (Chargers) is averaging 124, a one yard per game difference.

So on the season, the Texans are not a top 10 offense by less than 25 total yards and not a top 10 rushing offense by less than 10 total yards. And this is with Watson being hobbled for a couple of games.

Think about that. I'm not saying OB's offensive scheme is anything to emulate right now. But you have such a confirmation bias loaded into the seriatim ranking of offenses that you are making a specious argument over a 0.8% deviation.
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The numbers are true, but how many competent defenses had the Texans played? And they needed two OTs to do it.
And how much of the offense was due to Watson's manufacturing it, and not the offensive scheme?
All the little things add together to make a bigger difference, IMO.
 
sandman said:
Through the first half of 2018:

Total offense - 379 yards per game, ranked 15th. The #10 team (Chicago) is averaging 382, a three yard per game difference.

Total rushing offense - 123 yards per game, ranked 11th. The #10 team (Chargers) is averaging 124, a one yard per game difference.

So on the season, the Texans are not a top 10 offense by less than 25 total yards and not a top 10 rushing offense by less than 10 total yards. And this is with Watson being hobbled for a couple of games.

Think about that. I'm not saying OB's offensive scheme is anything to emulate right now. But you have such a confirmation bias loaded into the seriatim ranking of offenses that you are making a specious argument over a 0.8% deviation.
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Yay! for the QB guru/offensive savant that he was hyped up to be we are finally getting a top 11 offense. Break out the champagne boys! If Bob doesnt go full retard in the NE game and somehow forgets that he called for punt block against the titans this team is 7-1 right now. Think about that. I bring up his offensive rankings because he was supposed to be this heir apparent to Koobs offense (which was a thing of beauty) and all we get are 20 inside dives with a couple of hail mary's per game. Against the competition we have faced the offensive stats should jump off the page, instead they linger just around mediocre, which is par for the course with Billy.
 
sandman said:
Through the first half of 2018:

Total offense - 379 yards per game, ranked 15th. The #10 team (Chicago) is averaging 382, a three yard per game difference.

Total rushing offense - 123 yards per game, ranked 11th. The #10 team (Chargers) is averaging 124, a one yard per game difference.

So on the season, the Texans are not a top 10 offense by less than 25 total yards and not a top 10 rushing offense by less than 10 total yards. And this is with Watson being hobbled for a couple of games.

Think about that. I'm not saying OB's offensive scheme is anything to emulate right now. But you have such a confirmation bias loaded into the seriatim ranking of offenses that you are making a specious argument over a 0.8% deviation.
Click to expand...

Offenses ranked by PPG tells pretty much the same story. The Texans are ranked the 15th best offense in the ranking...and are separated by 3 points from the 10th ranked offense (Cincy).

But they are using football outsiders "DVOA" to base their rankings...or at least 1 of them is. Here is the DVOA rankings for offense according to football outsiders:

DVOA RANK
KC 33.30% 1
LAR 28.00% 2
LAC 26.90% 3
NO 17.90% 4
CAR 16.90% 5
GB 13.40% 6
NE 13.10% 7
PIT 12.70% 8
ATL 8.20% 9
DEN 8.10% 10
CHI 7.80% 11
CIN 4.50% 12
MIA 4.10% 13
BAL 4.00% 14
IND 4.00% 15
TB 4.00% 16
DET 3.30% 17
SEA 1.90% 18
OAK 0.40% 19
MIN 0.10% 20
WAS -3.00% 21
NYG -4.10% 22
PHI -4.40% 23
HOU -6.90% 24
DAL -8.50% 25
JAX -15.10% 26
SF -16.40% 27
TEN -18.50% 28
NYJ -23.30% 29
CLE -26.10% 30
ARI -38.00% 31
BUF -51.80% 32

Now just glancing over that list, Does anyone think MIA's offense is the 13th best offense in the league after 8 weeks..& after we played them? DVOA also has Denver ranked as a top 10 offense......Better than Indy who scores more, passes for more yards and averages more total yards per game. Houston also scores more than Denver and Mia, averages more yds passing....about the same total ypg with Denver (Den better by 1 yd) & significantly more than MIA. yet somehow according to DVOA they are 11 spots worse than MIA...& 13 spots worse than Denver.

Its nonsensical.
 
And those defenses of those bad teams we should have destroyed are ranked 2,3,6,11,18,21,25,27, averages to 14. So our schedule has had a little above average defense to face in the first half

2, 4, 11, 14, 21, 22, 28, and 24 left, and these average about to 16, middle of the pack. So as much as we talk about our easy schedule, we need a competent offense and defense needs to shut down the average QBs we play

Let's see if we can keep it going against the Bronco's well below average defense (so far this year)
 
I only checked the Texans OT games (not any other team), in which they gained nearly 200 yards.

Take that out and they would average 21.5 yards less per game.
 
Mr teX said:
So this is the latest thing the BoB hate brigade has latched onto? Lol..& here i was thinking that propping up Rick Smith's trash 12 years was the low point.

I seriously doubt he told Keenum that in the context of how the book puts it, but so what? Whatever he told him was enough for him to elevate his game to.........2nd stringer/game manager status. Not enough to be any teams' long term starter.........as Denver is finding out right now.

The fact that the BoB hate brigade is using this as some type of evidence is, next level silliness. Keenum out here trying to sell books & ya'll are falling for it.
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Don't hold a single player (even a qb) responsible for greatness especially when his supporting cast and organization in general is mediocre at best.
Case faired pretty well in Minnesota.
Check all the variables.
 
76Texan said:
Like I said, I haven't.
But 190 yards is a lot.

Scoring-wise, it actually brings the Texans down a notch, since the Chargers weren't involved in any OT game.
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Not sure where you are getting 190 yards. 83 yards against Indy and 72 yards against Dallas. That’s 155.
 
sandman said:
Through the first half of 2018:

Total offense - 379 yards per game, ranked 15th. The #10 team (Chicago) is averaging 382, a three yard per game difference.

Total rushing offense - 123 yards per game, ranked 11th. The #10 team (Chargers) is averaging 124, a one yard per game difference.

So on the season, the Texans are not a top 10 offense by less than 25 total yards and not a top 10 rushing offense by less than 10 total yards. And this is with Watson being hobbled for a couple of games.

Think about that. I'm not saying OB's offensive scheme is anything to emulate right now. But you have such a confirmation bias loaded into the seriatim ranking of offenses that you are making a specious argument over a 0.8% deviation.
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Good post, but yards only tell one side of the story. Also, yards does not equal points or win. Where is the points per game and what's the ranking?
 
Besides questionable offensive play calling and game prep O'Brien's biggest impact on the game comes as the manager/coach and his decision making has definitely lost this team games. These two articles are spaced out but yet they convey the same troubling issue with O'Brien. Fast forward to today and you ask yourself "is he still making the same mistakes"?

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2016/1...anagement-issues-in-third-year-as-head-coach/

https://houston.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/obrien-game-management-mistakes-cost-the-texans-again/

The writing is somewhat subjective coming from a critical writer, but it still offers some glimpses in detail to issues that may have been forgotten or dismissed.

If O'Brien has All of a sudden 'figured it out' great moot point, but there has to be more positives to a coach than "complimentary football".

I tried to look for some 'signature wins' type of info to provide a balance but there wasn't much written that I could find. There are football people out there who think O'Brien is a great "Xs and Os" guy for whatever that is worth.

Why does Bill get a pass? What has he done to endear himself to you if you like him?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I understand where you're coming form but can you let me know when O'Brien and the Texans won the AFC South when it was highly competitive?
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I like taking my frustration out on O'Brien just as much as the next guy, but when has the AFC South been highly competitive in the last four years?

I'm glad he isn't on the bottom of a crappy division year after year.
 
sandman said:
Not sure where you are getting 190 yards. 83 yards against Indy and 72 yards against Dallas. That’s 155.
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You're right.
I mistakenly add another drive in the 4th quarter.

Still, 155 yards divided by 8 is over 19 yards per game.

That gives the Texans just 360 ypg, only good for 20th.
 
Earl34 said:
Good post, but yards only tell one side of the story. Also, yards does not equal points or win. Where is the points per game and what's the ranking?
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The Texans rank 20th in total yardage per game (not counting OT so as to have a truer comparison with all the teams) and 23rd in offensive scoring (again, not counting OT and defensive scoring.)
 
steelbtexan said:
TD's do and DT has one less than Fuller. DT should be better woth Watson than he was with Keenum.
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It could be because of call playing due to the personnel available.

The Broncos actually have one more TD than the Texans (even without playing an OT game - though the Texans didn't score a TD in either).
And Keenum had a few very close balls and even call-back due to penalties.

It was also that the Broncos feel like they can punch the ball in near the goal line - or sometimes they can score on a run beyond the redzone.

Don't forget that Keenum was very efficient last year in the redzone.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/lists/19037/the-5-most-efficient-red-zone-quarterbacks-in-2017

The guy that can help himself the most is DT, if he can limit his drops.
He had more targets with the Broncos than Fuller with the Texans.
If he had fewer drops, his catch rate could equal or better than what he had with Manning.
 
76Texan said:
The numbers are true, but how many competent defenses had the Texans played? And they needed two OTs to do it.
And how much of the offense was due to Watson's manufacturing it, and not the offensive scheme?
All the little things add together to make a bigger difference, IMO.
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That's why stats are cute but the eye test is the better measurement. Of course, I have no issues in using stats as a secondary way to confirm the eye test.
 
thunderkyss said:
I like taking my frustration out on O'Brien just as much as the next guy, but when has the AFC South been highly competitive in the last four years?

I'm glad he isn't on the bottom of a crappy division year after year.
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The fact that he's been there, at the bottom, when the AFCS wasn't competitive is reason enough. Reminds me as to why a non Power 5 Conference school will never get to make the CFB Playoff Championship even if they go undefeated.....something about the level of competition.
 
The division is the division and your regular season schedule is beyond your control. You make your chops winning playoff games. How long have the Patriots taken advantage of Jets, Bills, and Fins, egads that has been horrible. They are the Pats because of post season success and winning against winning teams in the playoffs. So I will enjoy the ride and see how we start doing in the real season under BOB and DW4
 
76Texan said:
It could be because of call playing due to the personnel available.

The Broncos actually have one more TD than the Texans (even without playing an OT game - though the Texans didn't score a TD in either).
And Keenum had a few very close balls and even call-back due to penalties.

It was also that the Broncos feel like they can punch the ball in near the goal line - or sometimes they can score on a run beyond the redzone.

Don't forget that Keenum was very efficient last year in the redzone.
https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/lists/19037/the-5-most-efficient-red-zone-quarterbacks-in-2017

The guy that can help himself the most is DT, if he can limit his drops.
He had more targets with the Broncos than Fuller with the Texans.
If he had fewer drops, his catch rate could equal or better than what he had with Manning.
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among the lead leaders in drops. not knocking him so the player police can chill, just throwing that out there.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
That's why stats are cute but the eye test is the better measurement. Of course, I have no issues in using stats as a secondary way to confirm the eye test.
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the beautiful thing about stats is that they vindicate the eye test. furthermore, they allow those that are able to interpret the numbers insight into what teams or players prefer to do and how to be prepared to react or even better proact. put tangible data into arguments of X vs Y.
 
Earl34 said:
Good post, but yards only tell one side of the story. Also, yards does not equal points or win. Where is the points per game and what's the ranking?
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Agree. There are several different categories where an offense can be "top 10". If points is what we are going to use as the barometer of being top 10, then I have no issue with it. Let's just all agree to keep the goal posts from moving.

Texans are tied for 14th in scoring at 24.6 per game. They are a FG per game outside of the top 10.

I don't believe that wins is one of those categories, because a win is dependent on the defense doing their job. That being said, they are currently in the top 10 in wins at the halfway mark.

When you talk some of the other offensive categories...

14th in first downs - 5 total first downs outside of top 10
17th in 3rd down conversion - 3% outside of top 10
Tied for 9th in 4th down conversion
12th in penalties against - 8 total penalty yards from being in top 10


I think the point I am trying to make is that while nowhere near being a perfect scheme and DW4's dynamic play helps, but statistically this offense is 3 yards, 3 points, 1 penalty yard and less than one first down per game away from being top 10 in six different categories. Directionally it is pointed the right way. Give credit to whomever you think is responsible.
 
76Texan said:
The Texans rank 20th in total yardage per game (not counting OT so as to have a truer comparison with all the teams) and 23rd in offensive scoring (again, not counting OT and defensive scoring.)
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And you adjusted the entire league for both of those as well? I'm not trying to pump sunshine into their stats, just trying to say that they are directionally improving which is a good thing, right? No offense, but you are manipulating data incorrectly to make your point.
 
sandman said:
And you adjusted the entire league for both of those as well? I'm not trying to pump sunshine into their stats, just trying to say that they are directionally improving which is a good thing, right? No offense, but you are manipulating data incorrectly to make your point.
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Yes, I did adjust the numbers to the entire league.

Now, we can say that Watson was just rounding into playing shape in the beginning of the year.
If he comes back to form, he could be more lethal (unless the Oline kills him of course.)

The Oline was still not a cohesive unit; they could improve with more playing time together.

The Texans will have a relatively easier schedule in the second half.

The defense could become even more dangerous.

All this should help.
 
76Texan said:
The Texans rank 20th in total yardage per game (not counting OT so as to have a truer comparison with all the teams) and 23rd in offensive scoring (again, not counting OT and defensive scoring.)
Click to expand...

And this lines up with them being 24th according to football outsiders.

They are even worst in red zone success, something like 28th.

OBrien has yet to have a top 20 offense as head coach of the Texans. He doesn't have the bad QB excuse anymore.
 
TheKDog said:
And this lines up with them being 24th according to football outsiders.

They are even worst in red zone success, something like 28th.

OBrien has yet to have a top 20 offense as head coach of the Texans. He doesn't have the bad QB excuse anymore.
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DT and using the Jordans should help RZ improvement.

BTW, The OL still sucks. The level of defenses are just worse so they look better.
 
TheKDog said:
And this lines up with them being 24th according to football outsiders.

They are even worst in red zone success, something like 28th.
Click to expand...

These two things are related. If the Texans continue their recent red zone successes, they'll continue to move up in the rankings.
 
There are plenty of teams that made it to a Super Bowl without a Top 10 offense, so I'm not sure I understand this constant critique.

I'm actually hoping that this a strong second half of the season and they finish Top 10, if for no other reason that to watch the contortions some on here will go through to try and downplay it.
 
sandman said:
There are plenty of teams that made it to a Super Bowl without a Top 10 offense, so I'm not sure I understand this constant critique.

I'm actually hoping that this a strong second half of the season and they finish Top 10, if for no other reason that to watch the contortions some on here will go through to try and downplay it.
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Exactly...this thread has been 1 of the most active threads on the site...and we haven’t lost a game in 5 weeks. The offense has done nothing but improve in that timeframe as well.

There won’t be any contorting though...they’ll just disappear and wait for the team to lose again.
 
sandman said:
There are plenty of teams that made it to a Super Bowl without a Top 10 offense, so I'm not sure I understand this constant critique.

I'm actually hoping that this a strong second half of the season and they finish Top 10, if for no other reason that to watch the contortions some on here will go through to try and downplay it.
Click to expand...

The critique is OBrien builds bad offenses and is holding the team back.

If he finishes top 10 great, the critique is no longer true.

But I'd settle for top 20 at this point.
 
TheKDog said:
The critique is OBrien builds bad offenses and is holding the team back.

If he finishes top 10 great, the critique is no longer true.

But I'd settle for top 20 at this point.
Click to expand...

Just so we can come back to this conversation at the end of the year, in your opinion, what are the data points that the offense needs to be top 10 in your eyes?

Points? Yards? Red Zone efficiency? DVOA? Number of offensive possessions divided by total offensive touchdowns? Average yards per first down play? Scoring efficiency when the roof is open? Rushing yards between the tackles on the road discounting any defense in Cover 2? Only against top 10 defenses?

Set your parameters. Not saying the Texans will hit any of them, but at least we won't have subjective critique or :uprights:
 
TheKDog said:
The critique is OBrien builds bad offenses and is holding the team back.

If he finishes top 10 great, the critique is no longer true.

But I'd settle for top 20 at this point.
Click to expand...


But we have 5 years of proof. You're making it seem as if we're making these things up. You're turning a blind eye to all the negatives. Example: the benching of his hand picked quarterbacks. Lying about how ready Savage was when it was so clear this man shouldn't be on an NFL roster. Without Watson (a rookie might I add) we couldn't score over 13 points a game last season. So of course I was very Critical of O'brien's offense and play calling. Last game was the only time since last year ( during the time Watson was out there) this offense looked explosive.
 
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