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What's wrong with Watson?

CloakNNNdagger said:
You mean the Eric Decker who last Oct. 18 underwent major surgery on his hip to repair a torn labrum..........and was also in need of major shoulder surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff............but couldn't have it until Nov. 15 because he had to wait a month until he no longer needed crutches (that needed to be supported by his shoulder) in order to walk............THAT Eric Decker??? :mcnugget:
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Well.... other than that...... :crutch:can you think of any reason we shouldn't sign him. :D

:coffee:
 
Savage has a chance to be an average NFL starting QB, no better. But that's so much better than what we have had since good Schaub that he looks like a superstar by comparison. Just pray he can stay healthy for a few games, because defenses are going to read Watson's eyes like a book.
That 1st round pick was a pity for 3 more reasons: It cost a 2018 2nd, it deprived us of a much needed top OL selection, and it kept us from taking Peterman, who will be developed to greatness.
 
After reading this excerpt [SEE BELOW] from an early 2014 NFL.com article, we better hope that Savage does well and makes it through the entire season. Things tend to go South for teams that use multiple QBs in a season. To O'Brien's great credit, he has evidently been able to create an impressive exception to the rule in each of the past 3 seasons as HC for the Texans.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
It all conspires to create a head-spinning turnstile under center. According to NFL Media research, 51 starting quarterbacks were used by the league's 32 teams last season, including 19 who were not the Week 1 starter. That was well behind the catastrophic 2007 season, when 64 starters were used -- the most in any season other than 1987, when replacement players were used.

And teams have been going to the backup earlier and earlier. Last year, nine teams (Buffalo, Cleveland, Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota, Oakland, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and Tennessee) used at least two starters in the first seven weeks of the season. Only one of those teams (Philadelphia) made the playoffs. Not coincidentally, five of those teams have new head coaches this season.

Even more desperate are those teams that use three or more starters in a season, a category that included five squads (Green Bay, Cleveland, Buffalo, Minnesota and Oakland) in 2013. Over the past five years, 29 different teams have used at least three starters in a season, and just three finished with winning records: the 2013 Packers (8-7-1), the 2011 Texans (10-6) and the 2010 Steelers, who went 12-4 and made it to the Super Bowl.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
TexansWire.USAToday.com
Tom Savage should be the Texans QB Week 1--and it’s not even close

By: Cole Thompson | June 7, 2017 9:09 am ET

Tom Savage is not the long-term option for the Houston Texans at quarterback.

When GM Rick Smith basically traded away his next two first round picks for the Cleveland Browns to pick up Brock Osweiler’s horrendous contract, it was all but clear he was in the market to find the long-term option at quarterback somewhere in 2017. After missing out on grabbing Tony Romo and refusing to deal with the media fiasco that is known as Jay Cutler, Smith put all the eggs in the basket to move up 13 spots and select Clemson quarterback DeShaun Watson.

He arrived coming off a two-time appearance to the Heisman Trophy ceremony, consecutive trips to the National Championship-winning one against the top-ranked defense in America. In a way, when Watson stepped onto the stage to meet Commissioner Goodell, it felt to many like their prayers had finally been answered in Houston.

As a native Houstonian for nearly 22 years, seeing Watson put on the classic Deep Steel Blue jersey for the first time was a bone-chilling feeling. I remember looking over from my dining room table as my twin brother, clad in his Liberty White J.J. Watt jersey, weeping tears of joy for a team he has supported since the franchise began in 2002.

All seemed right in the “Space City” that night, the rocket was launched and Watson was headed to the stars.

Spoiler alert: Watson’s rocket will still have mechanical issues when the Jaguars enter NRG Stadium on September, 10th. He’ll be still sitting on the bench waiting for the green light from the staff for all-systems-go.

As he should be.

Even with the battles of OTA’s looking neck and neck, Savage has been spotted taking first-team reps while Watson is still developing under O’Brien.

The controversy of the great battle that will peruse between Savage and Watson this summer to the naked eye might seem like it’s neck and neck. The fact is, it’s not even close; Savage is the clear front runner.............................THE REST OF THE STORY
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Worst article ever. You want to root for savage, fine. You want to dislike Watson, fine. But find better reasons than the ones given in this article.
 
O'Brien's "great credit" and saving Grace has been Romeo Crennel and the defensive side. In fact if you fire O'Brien and replace him with Crennel the offense probably gets better.

How hard is it to go 3 and out and rely on your defense?
 
Uncle Rico said:
O'Brien's "great credit" and saving Grace has been Romeo Crennel and the defensive side. In fact if you fire O'Brien and replace him with Crennel the offense probably gets better.

How hard is it to go 3 and out and rely on your defense?
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I just want to see someone schemed wide the f'k open like we used to have. Cameraman, "where's the ball" commentator "there's nobody on him."

I'm missing something here because the 'simple' offense did that, regularly. The 'complex' offense does not and on top looks like dog poo after you change his kibble.
 
Uncle Rico said:
O'Brien's "great credit" and saving Grace has been Romeo Crennel and the defensive side. In fact if you fire O'Brien and replace him with Crennel the offense probably gets better.

How hard is it to go 3 and out and rely on your defense?
Click to expand...

You better hope that doesn't happen. As HC for the Browns for 4 years Crennel, had a .375 winning record. As HC for the Chiefs for 2 years, he had a .211 winning record. That's a .337 winning record. Like Wade Phillips, he is best left in his comfort zone of DC.
 
Uncle Rico said:
O'Brien's "great credit" and saving Grace has been Romeo Crennel and the defensive side. In fact if you fire O'Brien and replace him with Crennel the offense probably gets better.

How hard is it to go 3 and out and rely on your defense?
Click to expand...


I think McNair kinda, sorta, maybe, has already.... almost done this. Crennel in the booth running the show, Vrable on the field running the defense and OBrien on the field running the offense.

No matter how things turn out this year OBrien is in a no win situation.

We win...he is a good OC, no more, no less. Things will remain the same till RAC's contract is up.

We lose.... he is outta here. ( terrible decision )

McNair has placed the team in a no win situation. :gun: SNAFU

Wanna guess who the big winner is?? :shades:

In the spirit of the thread...nothing is wrong with Watson..yet. :)


:coffee:
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
You better hope that doesn't happen. As HC for the Browns for 4 years Crennel, had a .375 winning record. As HC for the Chiefs for 2 years, he had a .211 winning record. That's a .337 winning record. Like Wade Phillips, he is best left in his comfort zone of DC.
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& Kubiak went on to win a Super Bowl with the Broncos.
 
infantrycak said:
I just want to see someone schemed wide the f'k open like we used to have. Cameraman, "where's the ball" commentator "there's nobody on him."

I'm missing something here because the 'simple' offense did that, regularly. The 'complex' offense does not and on top looks like dog poo after you change his kibble.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the "simple" offense was a thing of beauty in its heyday. Toward the end we all complained about the 3rd down draws, throwing in front of the sticks, and corners jumping routes for pick 6's. During the latter half of 2012 and all of 2013, the simple offense was boring and predictable (not unlike the "complex" offense!)

Some things just never change in Houston.
 
frethack said:
To be fair, the "simple" offense was a thing of beauty in its heyday. Toward the end we all complained about the 3rd down draws, throwing in front of the sticks, and corners jumping routes for pick 6's. During the latter half of 2012 and all of 2013, the simple offense was boring and predictable (not unlike the "complex" offense!)

Some things just never change in Houston.
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Biggest mistake was not drafting a rookie qb with high upside under Kubiak. They were tied to Schaub and once he started going downhill the entire ship sunk.

I can kind of understand why they took the all in approach, but still, it was a mistake.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Biggest mistake was not drafting a rookie qb with high upside under Kubiak. They were tied to Schaub and once he started going downhill the entire ship sunk.

I can kind of understand why they took the all in approach, but still, it was a mistake.
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A competent medical staff would've seen the writing on the wall after Schaub's lisfranc injury and informed the personnel and coaching staffs that it would be downhill, as in a cliff, for Schaub after that injury.
 
cuppacoffee said:
I think McNair kinda, sorta, maybe, has already.... almost done this. Crennel in the booth running the show, Vrable on the field running the defense and OBrien on the field running the offense.

No matter how things turn out this year OBrien is in a no win situation.

We win...he is a good OC, no more, no less. Things will remain the same till RAC's contract is up.

We lose.... he is outta here. ( terrible decision )

McNair has placed the team in a no win situation. :gun: SNAFU

Wanna guess who the big winner is?? :shades:

In the spirit of the thread...nothing is wrong with Watson..yet. :)


:coffee:
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Why a terrible decision? What do you see that makes him a good coach? He was brought in to revamp not rebuild and his specialty is offense yet the team consistently ranks amongst the worst offenses in the game.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
You better hope that doesn't happen. As HC for the Browns for 4 years Crennel, had a .375 winning record. As HC for the Chiefs for 2 years, he had a .211 winning record. That's a .337 winning record. Like Wade Phillips, he is best left in his comfort zone of DC.
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Ahh yes those Matt Cassel, Brady Quinn, Ken Anderson Juggernauts ... Add in a 25th ranked defense and it's a wonder how they weren't more successful.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Why a terrible decision? What do you see that makes him a good coach? He was brought in to revamp not rebuild and his specialty is offense yet the team consistently ranks amongst the worst offenses in the game.
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How can you say he wasn't brought in to rebuild?... They were replacing their QB and eventually their #1 aging WR..as well as their #1 RB. The offense has sucked..but it was a total rebuild.
 
Carr Bombed said:
How can you say he wasn't brought in to rebuild?... They were replacing their QB and eventually their #1 aging WR..as well as their #1 RB. The offense has sucked..but it was a total rebuild.
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Would you say the situation OB inherited is the same that Koobs had to take over?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As HC for the Chiefs for 2 years, he had a .211 winning record.
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Romeo Crennel dealt with a lot of tough situations while coaching the Chiefs, including one of his players shooting himself in the head and committing suicide right in front of him.

I can't imagine how difficult that must have been. The mental toughness Romeo Crennel had to display just to keep a sense of normalcy for the rest of his team. They finished 2-14 that year and ironically, one of their wins came the following game after that murder suicide by Jovan Belcher.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Why a terrible decision? What do you see that makes him a good coach? He was brought in to revamp not rebuild and his specialty is offense yet the team consistently ranks amongst the worst offenses in the game.
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Wanna replace OBrien will Bill Belichick?

As an NFL head coach OBrien has had a winning record for three consecutive years and made the playoff the last two.

All with negative play from the most important position on the field, and a patchwork Oline

I am not of the school that blames OBrien for the dearth of quality QB play on this team.

Bill Belichicks NFL record the first three years in Cleveland was 20 - 28. OBriens first three years here is 27 - 21

Belichick was replaced by Model. That was a terrible decision also.

Belichick was 37-45 with the Browns, his best season coming in 1994 when he led Cleveland into the AFC playoffs behind a defense that surrendered an NFL-low 204 points and an offensive line that allowed the fewest sacks (14) in the league. The Browns, a wild-card entry, defeated New England before losing to Pittsburgh in the second round.

Sound familiar? And Belichick had something OBrien doesn't. I'll give you a hint.

Just maybe the organization you're stuck with has an impact on a head coach's success? Do you think Kraft would have R Smith running his team?

Unless you think Model firing Belichick was a good decision then I am wasting keystrokes.

:coffee:
 
.
cuppacoffee said:
Wanna replace OBrien will Bill Belichick?

As an NFL head coach OBrien has had a winning record for three consecutive years and made the playoff the last two.

All with negative play from the most important position on the field, and a patchwork Oline

I am not of the school that blames OBrien for the dearth of quality QB play on this team.

Bill Belichicks NFL record the first three years in Cleveland was 20 - 28. OBriens first three years here is 27 - 21

Belichick was replaced by Model. That was a terrible decision also.

Belichick was 37-45 with the Browns, his best season coming in 1994 when he led Cleveland into the AFC playoffs behind a defense that surrendered an NFL-low 204 points and an offensive line that allowed the fewest sacks (14) in the league. The Browns, a wild-card entry, defeated New England before losing to Pittsburgh in the second round.

Sound familiar? And Belichick had something OBrien doesn't. I'll give you a hint.

Just maybe the organization you're stuck with has an impact on a head coach's success? Do you think Kraft would have R Smith running his team?

Unless you think Model firing Belichick was a good decision then I am wasting keystrokes.

:coffee:
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Firing a HC just for the sake of firing is never a sound strategy. That, I agree.

I had disagreed with the firing of Kubiak.

Before replacing any key employee, the organization needs to have a qualified candidate or one with great potential to replace him.

I'm not totally on the ball, but it seems to me that McVay and Shanahan Jr. were two with potential this past off-season.

As an organization, I would think the Texans need to evaluate their personnel carefully.

A HC from an offensive side that sees an offense that goes from mediocre to worse definitely needs to be under scrutiny, especially while he wasted all the defensive efforts.

As I've said, O'Brien either didn't have the gut to stay with Fitz or he was just throwing dart - a method that he repeated again and again, each time with a worse result.

If you tell me he had less and less control of the QB situation, the longer he was with the Texans, it only makes him a weaker HC.

And no, he wasn't rebuilding; the owner said so.

He also had the choice of drafting one of the better QB prospects than Savage from the start.

As a fan, I'm willing to give him another chance, but if I don't see improvement, all I can do is to find something better to watch.
 
76Texan said:
.

Firing a HC just for the sake of firing is never a sound strategy. That, I agree.

I had disagreed with the firing of Kubiak.

Before replacing any key employee, the organization needs to have a qualified candidate or one with great potential to replace him.

I'm not totally on the ball, but it seems to me that McVay and Shanahan Jr. were two with potential this past off-season.

As an organization, I would think the Texans need to evaluate their personnel carefully.

A HC from an offensive side that sees an offense that goes from mediocre to worse definitely needs to be under scrutiny, especially while he wasted all the defensive efforts.

As I've said, O'Brien either didn't have the gut to stay with Fitz or he was just throwing dart - a method that he repeated again and again, each time with a worse result.

If you tell me he had less and less control of the QB situation, the longer he was with the Texans, it only makes him a weaker HC.

And no, he wasn't rebuilding; the owner said so.

He also had the choice of drafting one of the better QB prospects than Savage from the start.

As a fan, I'm willing to give him another chance, but if I don't see improvement, all I can do is to find something better to watch.
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"if I don't see improvement, all I can do is to find something better to watch."

I have stated the same thing myself. We only disagree on the reason for the lack of improvement.

I find that I am nowhere near as "married" to this team as I was the Oilers. Not even close.

There has been discussion ad nauseum here about how much control of personnel OBrien really has. I doubt any poster in here knows.

I think we have a good/possibly great coach. I am of the opinion that the Texan organization (read McNairs & godfather) has effectively neutered him for the coming season.

It is my hope that the Texans win it all this year and then OBrien can tell McNair "I have full control or I walk".

Then the godfather can hire his uncle Lovie like he previously wanted to do.


:coffee:
 
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cuppacoffee said:
Wtf makes you think he isn't?
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2014: 2-5 against teams with a winning record.

Beat the Bills 23-17 thanks to an 80yd Int return by J J Watt. The D intercepted another pass to seal the game.

Beat the Ravens thank to Keenum coming off the tree to manage the game; the D limited the Ravens to 16-33 on the ground and intercepted Flacco 3 times.
..........

2015: 2-4 against teams with a winning record.

Beat the Bengals 10-6 with the D limiting the Bengals to 256 yards while forcing 2 turnovers.
The Bengals were 4-14 on third down conversion.
Thanks to Lechler for averaging 46.8 yard on 8 punts. pinning the Bengals deep in their end of the field for the most part.

Beat the Jets 24-17, again thanks to the D, which limited the Jets to 267 yards while picking off Fitzpatrick twice.
The Jets were 3-14 on third down conversion.
Lechler outdid himself, averaging 52.1 yard also on 8 punts. Novak made all 3 FGs.
....................

2016: 3-7 against teams with a winning record.

Beat the Chìefs
The D allowed 291 yards but forced and recovered 3 fumbles.
The first one was at the Chíefs 27; the second one at the Chiefs 14; the third one was on a sack to the Chiefs 39.
A couple more sacks by the D (4 in all) end two other drives by the Chiefs.
The Chiefs were 3-14 on third down conversion.
Lechler averaged 49.8 yards on 5 punts.

Beat the Titans 24-17 in a tight game, on the strength of Fuller's 67 yd punt return TD.
The Titans committed 11 penalties
The D some, allowing 320 yards with an interception, but rose up on occasions, like the stop toward the end of the game; with 2:02 left, the Titans had 2-6 at the Texans 6 but was stopped cold.

Beat the Raiders 27-14 in the play-offs.
Self-explanatory. It's all about the D.
....

7-16 overall against teams with winning record.
On the strength of the Defense, one of the best punter in the league, and FG kickers that were no longer liabilities (85% plus FG accuracy in each of the 3 years.

Even if O'Brien contributed some to those areas, it's still not a record of a good HC.
In actuality, his offense has been a liability all this time.

For the most part, O'Brien was outcoached by the HCs of the better teams in the league.
 
Lucky said:
So have we figured out what's wrong with Watson, yet? It's a long thread and I was hoping for an executive summary.
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It was done within the first three pages, with you giving your own summary.
You're not satisfied with your own?
:kitten:
 
infantrycak said:
Well let's see. Decreasing offense each year. Counter beortch.
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That's all you got. No need to be obnoxious. It's not a admirable trait.

Coaching is all about the scoreboard. W's and L's nothing else. No style points.

Obriens record after three years: 48 games 27 wins 21 losses 3 playoff games winning one.

Compare that to :

Bill Parcells first three years as head coach was 22 – 25

Jimmy Johnson three years started out 19 – 29 You're a cowboy fan you should remember that.

The great Tom Landry took 6 years before his team even finished with a 500 season. I just know you want to make excuses for him

Chuck Noll three years started out 12- 30.

And the previously mentioned Blll Belichick's 20- 28 Start

Person would have to be blind to not see that OBrien has had a better career start that those supposedly “great coaches”.

Unless you deny that those were “great coaches”.

And I sit here asking myself.... self... why even bother?

You don’t like the guy I get it. But I believe he is a good / possibly great coach. You like that better. shssssh

:coffee:
 
Lucky said:
So have we figured out what's wrong with Watson, yet? It's a long thread and I was hoping for an executive summary.
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Don't see the point in debating him that extensively especially at this point. He's here. We drafted him. We're highly invested in him. Doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. We'll find out. We will see once he gets in there. Pre season will not be that accurate either especially for a rookie who will likely be up and down and no film on him. We'll really just have to wait and see until he gets regular season game time. People just need to wait that out at this point, and hope for the best.
 
cuppacoffee said:
That's all you got. No need to be obnoxious. It's not a admirable trait.

Coaching is all about the scoreboard. W's and L's nothing else. No style points.

Obriens record after three years: 48 games 27 wins 21 losses 3 playoff games winning one.

Compare that to :

Bill Parcells first three years as head coach was 22 – 25

Jimmy Johnson three years started out 19 – 29 You're a cowboy fan you should remember that.

The great Tom Landry took 6 years before his team even finished with a 500 season. I just know you want to make excuses for him

Chuck Noll three years started out 12- 30.

And the previously mentioned Blll Belichick's 20- 28 Start

Person would have to be blind to not see that OBrien has had a better career start that those supposedly “great coaches”.

Unless you deny that those were “great coaches”.

And I sit here asking myself.... self... why even bother?

You don’t like the guy I get it. But I believe he is a good / possibly great coach. You like that better. shssssh

:coffee:
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Not a lot to argue in that post.

I will say though that much like players, coaches can get better too. I think some of those coaches you named obviously learned and became better at their jobs as time went on.

While a coach may not initially be great, they can certainly develop into that. I don't think OB is a great coach at this time, but he does have some traits/philosophies that I think can make a great coach. JMO. Not a guarantee that he gets there, but lets hope for the best.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Not a lot to argue in that post.

I will say though that much like players, coaches can get better too. I think some of those coaches you named obviously learned and became better at their jobs as time went on.

While a coach may not initially be great, they can certainly develop into that. I don't think OB is a great coach at this time, but he does have some traits/philosophies that I think can make a great coach. JMO. Not a guarantee that he gets there, but lets hope for the best.
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Overall I think he's a really good coach. Reminds me a lot of John Fox who I think is really good as well. He has just been really bad on the offense, but he's also had really bad pieces at QB which makes tons of coaches look bad. A lot of that is his doing though. Outside of that, I like the way he runs the team. Not a lot of undisciplined players, and it doesn't get tolerated. Every time the team seems down or at a point where the bottom could fall out, he finds ways to reenergize them and they haven't ever fell apart in three years. We win the games we're supposed to win, and usually lose the ones we are expected to lose. I like that more than being a team that is all over the place and goes from over achieving to under achieving every other week. Our offense has been the problem, but we've been at 9-7 routinely. With just a little bit better of an offense and a competent QB that will grow those seasons could all be 12-4 type seasons.
 
cuppacoffee said:
Wanna replace OBrien will Bill Belichick?

As an NFL head coach OBrien has had a winning record for three consecutive years and made the playoff the last two.

All with negative play from the most important position on the field, and a patchwork Oline

I am not of the school that blames OBrien for the dearth of quality QB play on this team.

Bill Belichicks NFL record the first three years in Cleveland was 20 - 28. OBriens first three years here is 27 - 21

Belichick was replaced by Model. That was a terrible decision also.

Belichick was 37-45 with the Browns, his best season coming in 1994 when he led Cleveland into the AFC playoffs behind a defense that surrendered an NFL-low 204 points and an offensive line that allowed the fewest sacks (14) in the league. The Browns, a wild-card entry, defeated New England before losing to Pittsburgh in the second round.

Sound familiar? And Belichick had something OBrien doesn't. I'll give you a hint.

Just maybe the organization you're stuck with has an impact on a head coach's success? Do you think Kraft would have R Smith running his team?

Unless you think Model firing Belichick was a good decision then I am wasting keystrokes.

:coffee:
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So you're going to propose a false dilemma and rationalize the mediocrity at hand with an example of a rare occurrence? Belicheck is great I guess, but most of that is thanks to #12. I'll reverse you're presumption and ask "wouldn't have Tom Brady made ANY COACH great"?

O'Brien has benefited from a strong player nucleus, ridiculously good defensive play and the fortune to play in a division that has been the worst in football for a while, yet someone has to win it, why not a mediocre club who wins in spite of their coach not because of.

His coaching decisions aren't influencing the outcomes of the games, opponents aren't saying "oh no, we are facing a Bill O'Brien team" I mean what is the MO of an O'Brien team? I don't see an imprint or culture he's instilling to the point of this fanatical support. Koobs never got this kind of love and that man faced a steeper hill to climb and did it, only to get pushed off the other side.

It's been 4 years of the EXACT SAME OFFENSE ... No wrinkles no " hey that's new" moments. It's not innovative. It's not adapting to the complexity of the defensive schemes. It's the "I'm going to make this star shaped peg fit into the square hole" philosophy and it's going to turn Lamar Miller into 200 lbs of hamburger meat and DeAndre Hopkins go looking for greener pastures.

Seems to me OBs best offensive moments came with JJ lined up as a TE ... Go figure.
 
I'm sure there are those that Lovie cannot be a good option...............those would enjoy watching paint dry..............unfortunately with the godfather still there, that option will remain alive and strong.
Uncle Rico said:
So you're going to propose a false dilemma and rationalize the mediocrity at hand with an example of a rare occurrence? Belicheck is great I guess, but most of that is thanks to #12. I'll reverse you're presumption and ask "wouldn't have Tom Brady made ANY COACH great"?

O'Brien has benefited from a strong player nucleus, ridiculously good defensive play and the fortune to play in a division that has been the worst in football for a while, yet someone has to win it, why not a mediocre club who wins in spite of their coach not because of.

His coaching decisions aren't influencing the outcomes of the games, opponents aren't saying "oh no, we are facing a Bill O'Brien team" I mean what is the MO of an O'Brien team? I don't see an imprint or culture he's instilling to the point of this fanatical support. Koobs never got this kind of love and that man faced a steeper hill to climb and did it, only to get pushed off the other side.

It's been 4 years of the EXACT SAME OFFENSE ... No wrinkles no " hey that's new" moments. It's not innovative. It's not adapting to the complexity of the defensive schemes. It's the "I'm going to make this star shaped peg fit into the square hole" philosophy and it's going to turn Lamar Miller into 200 lbs of hamburger meat and DeAndre Hopkins go looking for greener pastures.

Seems to me OBs best offensive moments came with JJ lined up as a TE ... Go figure.
Click to expand...

Koobs had a very good defense and once he no longer had a consistently good top 15 quarterback to work with is when he got pushed off the other side.

BTW, Koobs record in his first 5 years were 6-10, 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, and 6-10.
 
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cuppacoffee said:
That's all you got. No need to be obnoxious. It's not a admirable trait.

Coaching is all about the scoreboard. W's and L's nothing else. No style points.

Obriens record after three years: 48 games 27 wins 21 losses 3 playoff games winning one.

Compare that to :

Bill Parcells first three years as head coach was 22 – 25

Jimmy Johnson three years started out 19 – 29 You're a cowboy fan you should remember that.

The great Tom Landry took 6 years before his team even finished with a 500 season. I just know you want to make excuses for him

Chuck Noll three years started out 12- 30.

And the previously mentioned Blll Belichick's 20- 28 Start

Person would have to be blind to not see that OBrien has had a better career start that those supposedly “great coaches”.

Unless you deny that those were “great coaches”.

And I sit here asking myself.... self... why even bother?

You don’t like the guy I get it. But I believe he is a good / possibly great coach. You like that better. shssssh

:coffee:
Click to expand...

Landry created both offenses and defenses. The 4-3 was his. F'king laughable to bring him up in defense of OB who can't even copy an offense competently.

JJ was 11-5 in his 3rd year. Poke me when OB does that. SB 4th year with one of the most dominant offenses the game has ever seen and that wasn't his side of the ball. Made a mockery of the high flying Bills. When was the last time an OB team made a mockery of anyone? - never.

Chuck Noll? How about an example who didn't live during the civil war? And by the way, he won 11 his 4th year. Offense got better even though that wasn't his side of the ball.

Funny, your examples are all defensive coaches who out performed OB the offensive coach.

3rd year they were 17th (Pittsburgh), 2nd (Landry) and 7th (JJ) on scoring offense. WITH DEFENSIVE COACHES. 3rd year Texans, 28th. Tell me again how great OB is.
 
From Lance Zerlein's Radio 790 Podcast this morning:

"Deshaun... Deshaun's not ready.

Being out at that practice, it's just... you know, completions are not where they need to be. On air. I'm talking about just on air, no pads, no defenders.

It's just ball placement. A lot of throws are going high, a lot of sailed throws. That was his problem in college, too. Just a lot of sailed throws on simple slants.

He just needs to keep working on it. It looked like he's not striding as long, I'm sure the coaches will get with him on that stride length and try to tighten that up.

He made some good throws, too. Deshaun has great presence on the field."
 
infantrycak said:
Landry created both offenses and defenses. The 4-3 was his. F'king laughable to bring him up in defense of OB who can't even copy an offense competently.

JJ was 11-5 in his 3rd year. Poke me when OB does that. SB 4th year with one of the most dominant offenses the game has ever seen and that wasn't his side of the ball. Made a mockery of the high flying Bills. When was the last time an OB team made a mockery of anyone? - never.

Chuck Noll? How about an example who didn't live during the civil war? And by the way, he won 11 his 4th year. Offense got better even though that wasn't his side of the ball.

Funny, your examples are all defensive coaches who out performed OB the offensive coach.

3rd year they were 17th (Pittsburgh), 2nd (Landry) and 7th (JJ) on scoring offense. WITH DEFENSIVE COACHES. 3rd year Texans, 28th. Tell me again how great OB is.
Click to expand...

Brian Billick and Gruden were both thought of as these offensive geniuses, but I never saw any of that with them. Gruden was with the Raiders, but when he got to Tampa he never could get any success on offense. Billick never could in Baltimore either. Both won SB's with all time great defenses though. OB's tenure has been very similar to what I watched with those guys in their tenure where they had a rolling list of bad QB choices and poor chemistry with those QB's as coaches. Maybe it's just me, but it does seem like defensive minded coaches end up having long term success more than the offensive minded ones. Not that I've ever seen stats on that, but just on observational analysis.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
From Lance Zerlein's Radio 790 Podcast this morning:

"Deshaun... Deshaun's not ready.

Being out at that practice, it's just... you know, completions are not where they need to be. On air. I'm talking about just on air, no pads, no defenders.

It's just ball placement. A lot of throws are going high, a lot of sailed throws. That was his problem in college, too. Just a lot of sailed throws on simple slants.

He just needs to keep working on it. It looked like he's not striding as long, I'm sure the coaches will get with him on that stride length and try to tighten that up.

He made some good throws, too. Deshaun has great presence on the field."
Click to expand...

Contradiction much?
 
infantrycak said:
Landry created both offenses and defenses. The 4-3 was his. F'king laughable to bring him up in defense of OB who can't even copy an offense competently.

JJ was 11-5 in his 3rd year. Poke me when OB does that. SB 4th year with one of the most dominant offenses the game has ever seen and that wasn't his side of the ball. Made a mockery of the high flying Bills. When was the last time an OB team made a mockery of anyone? - never.

Chuck Noll? How about an example who didn't live during the civil war? And by the way, he won 11 his 4th year. Offense got better even though that wasn't his side of the ball.

Funny, your examples are all defensive coaches who out performed OB the offensive coach.

3rd year they were 17th (Pittsburgh), 2nd (Landry) and 7th (JJ) on scoring offense. WITH DEFENSIVE COACHES. 3rd year Texans, 28th. Tell me again how great OB is.
Click to expand...
There has always seemed to be a trend of "offensive" minded coaches having great defenses and "defensive" minded coaches having great defenses.
I'm ok with OB going into 2017 and 2018. I don't know if he's the next great coach or not, I just dislike changing coaching staffs like you're changing underwear. I'm considerably more patient than some members here.
 
DocBar said:
There has always seemed to be a trend of "offensive" minded coaches having great defenses and "defensive" minded coaches having great defenses.
I'm ok with OB going into 2017 and 2018. I don't know if he's the next great coach or not, I just dislike changing coaching staffs like you're changing underwear. I'm considerably more patient than some members here.
Click to expand...

I agree with that as a general proposition. Just wish I saw something from OB. It all seems so mismatched. Lamar Miller could be great in a wide ZBS. Instead he is being run up the gut. He's not Emmitt Smith. Not gonna be, never was, never will be. That OB doesn't see that disturbs me. As an example.
 
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