Personally I never thought Clooney was a bust.
But then he was not only a consensus elite prospect, he was the consensus best player in the draft by far.
Watson wasn't even a consensus first rounder by grade.
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What's wrong with Watson?
- Thread starter LikeMike
- Start date
Personally I never thought Clooney was a bust.
But then he was not only a consensus elite prospect, he was the consensus best player in the draft by far.
Watson wasn't even a consensus first rounder by grade.
Clooney is a good actor, but he's definitely a bust as an NFL player and I don't mean an HOF bust. Clowney, on the other hand, isn't a bust but he will have a truncated career due to the microfracture surgery.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Who?
Deshaun Watson. The guy that the Texans swapped 1st round draft picks and gave up the 2018 1st round draft pick to select. He wasn't a consensus 1st round pick by NFL draft "experts". You're better than this, Cak. Get with the program.
Clooney has made some stinkers recently. Gravity, Money Monster, Hail Caesar!. Did I mention Gravity? But I thought Michael Clayton and Up in the Air were really good. And he was fantastic in Fantastic Mr. Fox. Not a bust.
Gravity was pretty incredible.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Give me a little credit. I meant which "experts."
He was consensus 1st round everywhere I saw. Now the Texans picked him and he isn't even a 1st rounder.
Mangler
Toro de España
His accomplishments don't mean anything to most posters in here. Yet if he turns out to be everything we have hoped for, they'll act like they always believed in him. Kinda like they did with Watt and Clowney.
Any dude that owns a tequila company is fine by me.
Depends on when you polled the "experts".
Early on the talk was there wasn't a QB that deserved a "first round grade" (i.e., no obvious Andrew Lucks in this draft).
Later on, when the talking heads started mocking what they thought NFL teams would actually do in the draft, they had to concede that two or three QBs - Watson included - would likely be drafted in round one.
I only recently awoke from a Gravity induced coma. However, I could be persuaded to give it another look with a thumbs up review from MeatBear77.
Btw, agree 1000% on Michael Clayton.
Derrick Carr wasn't a consensus first round pick either was he, so much for the value of the "experts" knowledge.
Carr is a good QB, but he's not worth what the Raiders just gave him, imho, and Watson hasn't done a thing in an NFL game yet. Let's not anoint him before he shows it on the field.
badboy
Hall of Fame
and this is the problem some like a movie and some do not. Some like an athlete or coach or GM..
Brownsfan
Waterboy
Actually, from the perspective of an outside, it seems that he has mainly been anointed as a bust on this board (which, BTW, isn't exactly unfamiliar territory where I come from). However, in my opinion, he is a talented young player with a great work ethic who excelled as a player in college, and if brought along properly (given some time to develop and perfect his craft) has a chance of being very good.
I don't think Watson is a bust. I think he has talent but also an alarming propensity to be fooled by disguised coverages and throw INTs. We'll have a better feel for where he is after the preseason. I know where you're coming from. I'm living in Akron and working in Cleveland for First Energy.
I don't think he's a bust, no one knows for sure how good he'll be. Just being realistic about his weaknesses at this point
his or yours?
Yes
Scooter
Funky
Yeah, until your wife hits 40.....
The award for Best Post Ever goes to ...
I have no idea how Watson will do in his career here in in Houston, in the NFL ? I watched him play very little in college.
The biggest concern I have right now is that I read and hear about our young QB yet nobody says anything real positive let alone any kind of glowing endorsement on a QBs greatest asset which is his arm, his passing ability.
I've not heard anybody talk positively about arm strength or accuracy. However some do say Watson has a very quick release which is important, but is there anything else
in positive terms to say about Watsons passing ability ?
Strength and accuracy, average or inferior in those all important categories ?
The biggest concern I have right now is that I read and hear about our young QB yet nobody says anything real positive let alone any kind of glowing endorsement on a QBs greatest asset which is his arm, his passing ability.
I've not heard anybody talk positively about arm strength or accuracy. However some do say Watson has a very quick release which is important, but is there anything else
in positive terms to say about Watsons passing ability ?
Strength and accuracy, average or inferior in those all important categories ?
For me, it's more about the unknowns.
Watson's passing game is much better than VY as a prospect, but he still has to show the ability to read NFL defenses and to go through progressions; things he didn't have to do at Clemson.
To have Watson as the third QB instead of VY as the first is just fine.
I only argued that having three shots to find the guy is more prudent.
Trading down to take Kizer and Beathard while saving next year's first, IMO, gives the team more flexibility.
I would also consider Beathard, an O-lineman, and keep next year first.
Wait a minute, when did we choose between Watson and Vince Young?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Did you ever notice if you add and o to N..... for a minute there, I'd forgotten why I just stick to the NSZ during the offseason.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Did you ever notice if you add an 'o' to NSZ you have NOSZ or NO SZ. [nosy]?
ghostlight
Veteran
I had more quality time filling sand bags in Nam.
Um.... no, I didn't.
Cabo Wabo is not very good tequila.
edromeo
Rookie
Arm strength measured by ESPN Sports Science was 53.5 mph which they said was the same as Sam Bradford.
PFF:
Saturday. Let’s take a look:
1. Deshaun Waston was the sixth-most-accurate QB on deep targets this season.
Being able to stretch the field does wonders for an offense, and Watson is one of the best in the nation at throwing deep. Among QBs with at least 50 deep attempts (passes traveling 20-plus yards in air), Watson ranks sixth in adjusted completion rate, at 49.4 percent, and his numbers improved as the season went on.
Watson won’t have it easy against the Buckeyes, however. On deep routes, QBs have thrown 59 passes of over 20 yards versus Ohio State, completing only 12 for 378 yards, two touchdowns, and six picks. Of all the deep throws, Watson is most likely to attack the Ohio State secondary with go-routes. Watson has thrown a go-route on 84 of his 470 pass attempts, the most of any route.
On the season, quarterbacks have attempted 58 go-routes versus the Buckeyes, completing only 15 for 386 yards, five touchdowns, four interceptions, with three drops with a passer rating of 54.8. But these numbers may be a bit inflated due to the lack of elite QB play in the Big Ten. The best quarterback the Buckeyes played all year was Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield, who completed three of four passes over 20 yards for 149 yards and two scores against them. Watson may be able to find similar success to Mayfield, but he will need to pick his spots wisely.
2. Watson’s adjusted completion rate under pressure improved by 14 percent between the 2015 and 2016 seasons.
Watson struggled handling pressure in 2015, but he has improved significantly in 2016. He has shown impressive growth and poise in 2016 when pressured, something that was a concern for him entering the season. His numbers improved across the board, with his sack rate dropping by 2 percent and his adjusted completion rate improving by 14 percent.
Watson will have an opportunity to show just how good he is at handling pressure as he takes on an Ohio State team that is used to pressuring the QB. The Buckeyes recorded a pressure rate of 37 percent, which is third-best in the Big Ten. PFF ranks Ohio State’s pass-rush unit as the fifth-best in the entire country, and four of the Buckeyes’ five defensive ends rank in the top 31 in pass-rushing productivity (PRP) out of 179 qualifying DEs.
3. Watson’s average time to attempt was 2.11 seconds in 2016, the sixth-fastest time in the nation.
While time in the pocket will differ from team to team, being able to get rid of the ball quickly is essential to the success of any quarterback. Watson’s average time to attempt this year was 2.11 seconds, sixth-fastest in the nation. This could be used as an argument that Watson was predetermining his reads and throwing it to the first receiver in his progressions, but when you look closer at his numbers, you see that he actually improved when he took more time in the pocket and had to go to his second, third, and fourth reads.
As noted earlier, Ohio State has been able to get substantial pressure on over 37 percent of passing plays. Often the best way to beat a pass-rush is utilize a quick passing game.
Of the four quarterbacks who play for teams currently ranked in the top 25 that also played Ohio State this season (Michigan’s Wilton Speight, Penn State’s Trace McSorely, Wisconsin’s Alex Hornibrook, and Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield), each was able to find success when throwing the ball in 2.5 seconds or less. Only Michigan’s Wilton Speight had a QB rating below 100.0 on such throws, at 97.7. Look for Watson’s natural ability to get rid of the ball quickly to be a big advantage for Clemson. He should be able to replicate the success of the other top QBs who played the Buckeyes and use the quick passing game as a weapon for the Tigers.
Ohio State’s secondary is loaded with talent, including two of the top cornerbacks in the country in Marshon Lattimore and Gareon Conley. Their matchup with Clemson’s Mike Williams—the No. 14 ranked WR in PFF’s overall grades—will be a great one.
There may be more opportunities, however, for Watson to isolate matchups with tight end Jordan Leggett and slot receivers Artavis Scott and Hunter Renfrow against Chris Worley, who covers frequently out of the slot, and safety Damon Webb. Both Buckeyes defenders have struggled some in coverage, and getting the ball out quickly to those playmakers may play to Watson’s advantage.
This semifinal matchup should be excellent, and Deshaun Watson’s level of success should go a long way toward determining which team advances to the national title game.
PFF:
What he does best:
• Smooth, efficient delivery.
• Throws a very catchable ball.
• Displays a complete inventory of passes with zip, firm with touch. Changes the pace of the ball well
when needed.
• Extremely athletic with the ability to escape when things break down. Good initial burst.
• True timing/rhythm passer, heavily reliant on pre-snap reads.
• Throws cover-3 and cover-2 seams very well.
• Best “glance” route thrower in the class.
• Anticipates well on timing routes outside the numbers.
• Flashes good go-ball touch. Good feel for back-shoulder throws to big-bodied receivers.
• Delivers in big moments. Confident player.
The rest of the PFF article:
Biggest concerns:
Watson is as tough of a prospect to evaluate as there is coming out of college. While he shows flashes with his arm, he is wildly inconsistent and lacks the key traits (pocket instincts/poise and field vision). He will need to play in an offense specifically built around him with a quarterback run game and pass-game scheme creativity. There will be games when the coverage structures will be simple and the route concepts will match up with the route combinations, and he will have success. Then there will be games where the defensive movement will give him problems or the pass rush will force him to move within the pocket and get through progressions, and he will struggle mightily. Watson is not a pure progression passer, with his limited pocket feel and vision, and whenever that’s the case, there will be a huge risk involved when hoping to land a franchise quarterback. The former Clemson quarterback’s work ethic and intangibles will make him an attractive option, but there will be some risk involved.
Biggest concerns:
- Limited instincts/feel in the pocket.
- Does not react smoothly when initial read is not there.
- Lacks consistent pocket poise, drops eyes down for a running lane instead of creating within the pocket.
- Played in an offense where the field was cut in half with simple reads.
- Field looks small to him; limited vision to get through progressions.
- Relatively slow post-snap processing speed.
- More interested in taking a yes/no go-ball on the outside than reading out the concept of the play.
- Overall not as accurate as he should be considering his style of play. Inaccurate on many easy throws in the short passing game.
- Played with elite playmakers around him, will have to learn how to function without big-play receivers on the outside.
Watson is as tough of a prospect to evaluate as there is coming out of college. While he shows flashes with his arm, he is wildly inconsistent and lacks the key traits (pocket instincts/poise and field vision). He will need to play in an offense specifically built around him with a quarterback run game and pass-game scheme creativity. There will be games when the coverage structures will be simple and the route concepts will match up with the route combinations, and he will have success. Then there will be games where the defensive movement will give him problems or the pass rush will force him to move within the pocket and get through progressions, and he will struggle mightily. Watson is not a pure progression passer, with his limited pocket feel and vision, and whenever that’s the case, there will be a huge risk involved when hoping to land a franchise quarterback. The former Clemson quarterback’s work ethic and intangibles will make him an attractive option, but there will be some risk involved.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Regarding your 2-part PFF article. Kudos for posting an honest pros, cons, and bottom line assessment of Watson.
I still like Watson's positive traits.
Except for the part when he leaves the pocket in passing situations.
Or when I think he should have thrown the ball away.
He's not Big Ben or Newton.
For all the good he does scrambling, it takes just one hit.
I never said these things about Russell Wilson when he came out, only the opposite.
Even if it only once a game.
In the NFL, the team needs a QB first and foremost.
Many of us were young man once, when we feel invicible ( in different sports, or not even in sport.)
It's not that easy to "break a habit" that has made you successful so far (or so near.)
Except for the part when he leaves the pocket in passing situations.
Or when I think he should have thrown the ball away.
He's not Big Ben or Newton.
For all the good he does scrambling, it takes just one hit.
I never said these things about Russell Wilson when he came out, only the opposite.
Even if it only once a game.
In the NFL, the team needs a QB first and foremost.
Many of us were young man once, when we feel invicible ( in different sports, or not even in sport.)
It's not that easy to "break a habit" that has made you successful so far (or so near.)
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Wilson is the best practical QB I've ever seen from a scrambling perspective. The guy is really small, but has nice size and just enough muscle without it being to much. He takes off at the best opportune times and gets just the yards he needs or can get while taking the most minimal amounts of damage possible or not getting hit at all. He keeps their offense pretty balanced with that attack, and doesn't try to overdo it with his scrambling which can become tempting for a lot of athletic QB's. If Watson can mimic Wilson's style of scrambling and his instinctive mentality of how he goes about it in game situations, then that will help him tremendously as he attempts to improve as the type of passer that is needed to contend in this league.
Thanks Edromeo for that great link and also thanks to you TheKdog for what you provided, I appreciate it !
So this just whets my appetite even more to see how Watson does once he gets on the field and sees some real action, but hey I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now with TC starting at the end of next month.
So this just whets my appetite even more to see how Watson does once he gets on the field and sees some real action, but hey I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now with TC starting at the end of next month.
yeah, I heard