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What's wrong with Watson?

Texansballer74 said:
People were killing him when he didn't trade up. Drafting these players are a hit or miss. He missed like every GM does in every freaking sport.
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I have no problem with that, the problem is trading up too many times. That's a lot of picks we've given away in the O'Brien era
 
TheKDog said:
I have no problem with that, the problem is trading up too many times. That's a lot of picks we've given away in the O'Brien era
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The main thing that bothers me about his draft day trades is that he's usually giving away. He rarely accumulate picks for the future.

Now, most of the trades you're talking about he did in fact use picks we got from other teams, but when you habe to give away your only first, wind up without a first or second in next year's draft, you're really spending money you don't have.

At the same time, no price is to high for a franchise QB. I only hope everyone from the HC up truly believe they have a franchise prospect.

But yeah, Smith needs to start stock piling ones & twos.
 
thunderkyss said:
The main thing that bothers me about his draft day trades is that he's usually giving away. He rarely accumulate picks for the future.

Now, most of the trades you're talking about he did in fact use picks we got from other teams, but when you habe to give away your only first, wind up without a first or second in next year's draft, you're really spending money you don't have.

At the same time, no price is to high for a franchise QB. I only hope everyone from the HC up truly believe they have a franchise prospect.

But yeah, Smith needs to start stock piling ones & twos.
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It's much easier to stockpile picks when you have a good team. Mediocre teams can't afford to do that
 
JB said:
61-164 since 2002

Cleveland has not been mediocre... they've been bad


And have nothing to show yet for the picks they've acquired lately
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The point is they've managed to stockpile several high draft picks over the last three drafts & like you said, they ain't even mediocre
 
Mollywhopper said:
No, they're horrible. That can't be your blue print?
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I said Rick needs to work on stocking up future high round draft picks. JB said it can't be done, because we're mediocre. I said Cleveland doesn't seem to have that problem. Never was it mentioned that we should do things like the Browns.

being a mediocre football team should not prevent Rick Smith from getting future 1st & 2nd round picks.
 
thunderkyss said:
I said Rick needs to work on stocking up future high round draft picks. JB said it can't be done, because we're mediocre. I said Cleveland doesn't seem to have that problem. Never was it mentioned that we should do things like the Browns.

being a mediocre football team should not prevent Rick Smith from getting future 1st & 2nd round picks.
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The point is it's hard to stockpile picks when you are trying desperately to win now. We don't have the resources to give up for future considerations like Cleveland has been doing the last few years.
 
thunderkyss said:
I said Rick needs to work on stocking up future high round draft picks. JB said it can't be done, because we're mediocre. I said Cleveland doesn't seem to have that problem. Never was it mentioned that we should do things like the Browns.

being a mediocre football team should not prevent Rick Smith from getting future 1st & 2nd round picks.
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The Texans are just doing it wrong. Trading away picks isn't always wrong, but we've done it too much and it starts to strain our cap and depth. Rookies are on very favorable contracts, so when you hit on them it's a huge advantage. The FO doesn't seem to have any awareness of this at all.

And I don't buy the argument that only really good or really bad teams can be smart with picks. All teams can do it.
 
TheKDog said:
The Texans are just doing it wrong. Trading away picks isn't always wrong, but we've done it too much and it starts to strain our cap and depth. Rookies are on very favorable contracts, so when you hit on them it's a huge advantage. The FO doesn't seem to have any awareness of this at all.

And I don't buy the argument that only really good or really bad teams can be smart with picks. All teams can do it.
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If anything we're not spending money next year on a 1st or 2nd round pick so they're saving even more money. Cap wise we're in the top 5; far from strained. What will we do with those savings and the cap space we have now? Who knows. Unless we're front loading extensions for Hopkins and then Clowney next year.
 
PapaL said:
If anything we're not spending money next year on a 1st or 2nd round pick so they're saving even more money. Cap wise we're in the top 5; far from strained. What will we do with those savings and the cap space we have now? Who knows. Unless we're front loading extensions for Hopkins and then Clowney next year.
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1st or 2nd rounders don't cost a lot of money. We're gonna have to replace them with free agents that are often worse or more expensive.
 
TheKDog said:
1st or 2nd rounders don't cost a lot of money. We're gonna have to replace them with free agents that are often worse or more expensive.
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Our big FA next season as Hopkins and JJo. Hopkins will get paid. JJo at this point in his career is getting a mega deal. The money we saved from Brock alone this year covers both of those positions PLUS the savings from not having to pay those draft slots next year (ball park $3.3M). JJo's replacement was drafted when we took Kevin Johnson so his demands should be realistic. We're not hurting cap wise at all.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/yearly/cap/
 
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PapaL said:
Our big FA next season as Hopkins and JJo. Hopkins will get paid. JJo at this point in his career is getting a mega deal. The money we saved from Brock alone this year covers both of those positions PLUS the savings from not having to pay those draft slots next year (ball park $3.3M). JJo's replacement was drafted when we took Kevin Johnson so his demands should be realistic. We're not hurting cap wise at all.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/yearly/cap/
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I don't know that we really "saved" any money with the whole Brock debacle.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The 1st and 2nd round picks we gave away had us lose the ability to get multiple top notch players for relatively cheap.......and have them tied up long term.
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Yeah, exactly. I mean every so often for a guy you really feel good about, ok. But it's every year it seems like.
 
Texansballer74 said:
If we're going to be like the Patriots one day, we better learn to do without top draft picks.
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When you have a strong all around team and consistently go deep into the playoffs, you don't get and you aren't usually in any dire need to have to get top draft picks. Unfortunately, so far we've been nowhere close to that scenario.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I said Rick needs to work on stocking up future high round draft picks. JB said it can't be done, because we're mediocre. I said Cleveland doesn't seem to have that problem. Never was it mentioned that we should do things like the Browns.

being a mediocre football team should not prevent Rick Smith from getting future 1st & 2nd round picks.
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Accumulating draft picks is often a matter of luck and opportunity. In the case of Cleveland, the past two years, it was mainly a result of having high draft picks to start with and then making a trade with Philadelphia (Carson Wentz) that netted several additional picks last year and this year. I will admit to being impress with what the Browns FO have acquired in return for that trade. (Getting Jamie Collins for a 5th rounder obtained in that trade, from New England, is probably one of the better things they did.)

And, of course, the additional picks next year has mainly to do with the Osweiler and Watson trades. I might fault the Texans for the Osweiler trade, but it appears to me that Osweiler largely forced it. With regard to Watson, you obviously need to be right about Watson, but I think you have a decent chance of coming out ahead in that trade if you don't throw him to the wolves too early.

But the point is that I do not see the opportunity that the Texans had to accumulate high round draft picks in the manner that Cleveland acquired them. You have won too much to start off with high picks to trade down for more and you have largely been forced to go the other way to fill needs. It is what it is. Like Texansballer74 said above, in your situation, you need to be more like the Patriots and learn to do without top picks. (You really don't want to go the other route.)
 
It's really all up to the QB's. Look at the teams consistently drafting later in the rounds these days. Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle. All of them have had tremendous stability at the QB position. I know some will say Wilson isn't that good. Take him off that team, insert Hoyer, Mallett, Fitzpatrick, Brock what do you have? The Texans. A team with tremendous talent on defense, not so much on offense.

We've all heard the saying, "The NFL is a QB driven league". If you don't draft the right talent at QB, you're just spinning your wheels. The rest of the draft is a mute point if you don't draft a QB, or worse you give up a lot of capital for the wrong QB. Hopefully the Texans drafted the right QB. If they did, the 1st and 2nd round picks next year is completely forgiven. The parades party through the city of Houston as we celebrate the Lombardi trophy.
 
banned1976 said:
It's really all up to the QB's. Look at the teams consistently drafting later in the rounds these days. Green Bay, Pittsburgh, New England, Seattle. All of them have had tremendous stability at the QB position. I know some will say Wilson isn't that good. Take him off that team, insert Hoyer, Mallett, Fitzpatrick, Brock what do you have? The Texans. A team with tremendous talent on defense, not so much on offense.

We've all heard the saying, "The NFL is a QB driven league". If you don't draft the right talent at QB, you're just spinning your wheels. The rest of the draft is a mute point if you don't draft a QB, or worse you give up a lot of capital for the wrong QB. Hopefully the Texans drafted the right QB. If they did, the 1st and 2nd round picks next year is completely forgiven. The parades party through the city of Houston as we celebrate the Lombardi trophy.
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You more than likely just p*ssed off a bunch of posters here by making too much damn sense.
 
In an interview with Stephen A recently, Rick Smith said the most important thing he looks for in a QB is a quick release, which Watson has.

But I laughed because it's the exact opposite of Brock. Maybe Rick just now learned what makes a good QB.

Also, something about poker because I keep hearing how well he plays "when the chips are down."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
But he didn't say that Rick always drafts someone that he and the coaches want preferentially.
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There are always guys that a team misses on, because that's the way the draft works. I'm sure a lot of teams would loved to had drafted JJ Watt, but things didn't fall the way they planned.

But if the coaches want Will Fuller, for example, Rick will get them Will Fuller. If the coaches want Larry Allen or Lamar Miller in FA, Rick will try to land Larry Allen & Lamar Miller.

If the coaches value Jimmy Garoppolo as a high 2nd, Rick will correct them. If the coaches think a FA should be got at all cost, Rick will temper the expectations.
 
TheKDog said:
Well, if Watson is a bust, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear the claim that the coaches really wanted Mahomes.
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Unless Mahommes busts first. That's the only thing that keeps the Garoppolo thing going. Dude hasn't had any significant playing time. But too many here are convinced he's the answer to our prayers.
 
thunderkyss said:
There are always guys that a team misses on, because that's the way the draft works. I'm sure a lot of teams would loved to had drafted JJ Watt, but things didn't fall the way they planned.

But if the coaches want Will Fuller, for example, Rick will get them Will Fuller. If the coaches want Larry Allen or Lamar Miller in FA, Rick will try to land Larry Allen & Lamar Miller.

If the coaches value Jimmy Garoppolo as a high 2nd, Rick will correct them. If the coaches think a FA should be got at all cost, Rick will temper the expectations.
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How many team passed on Tom Brady? And how many did they passed on him completely?

6th round pick.
 
Mangler said:
Anyone actually answer the question? I see this turned into a Fire O'Brien and or Rick Smith convo again. Damn ADD...
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Nothing is wrong with Watson other than being a rookie QB having to learn a new system and get acclimated to NFL speed of play.
 
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