Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I am ecstatic we are bitchin about a guy who is frequently open for house calls, he will catch his share and work to get better. Finally a real threat that won't be easy to deal with with the other players
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Your thoughts on Will Fuller
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
I feel like you are the one that is getting overly defensive here that people are debating your position. I think the ones pointing out that it was a single drop are the voice of reason or logic here. All WR's drop passes. It's a fast paced game. The game moves extremely fast, especially at the distance and speed that Fuller plays at. This on top of the fact that we know he is not the best catching WR means it would be ridiculous for one not to expect this to happen. This is not called being defensive. Rather this is called being calm and logical about it. We aren't freaking out. We are providing a reasonable explanation. Like I said before, the only question here is whether or not Fuller's pros outweighs his cons. I personally think it does.
Porky
Hall of Fame
At this point in time, I don't buy the Fuller/Jacoby Jones comparison. Jacoby only tantalized us with some of this physical talent, and had a high fail rate on a consistent basis. And a lot of it was mental with Jones...adding to the frustration. Many days he barely figured into the passing game and was never a starter that I can recall other than injury necessity. How many games did Jones have in his entire time here that compared with Will Fuller's one and only game in a Texans uni?
I see more of a Fuller/Andre Johnson comparison. #1 picks with amazing physical talents who the Texans are counting on to be long term productive guys. AJ dropped a number of balls early in his career. His hands were inconsistent and he got better. Not Hopkins good - but better and because the dude was so good otherwise, the fans overlooked the occasional drop. I remember at least a couple of times that AJ had ultra critical drops late in games and the fans didn't run him out of town on a rail. I suspect Fuller will be the same. He'll help the Texans win many games, but I suspect he'll have a few critical drops during his career.
Fuller is a stud and I suspect he'll be a rookie of the year candidate when all is said and done.
I see more of a Fuller/Andre Johnson comparison. #1 picks with amazing physical talents who the Texans are counting on to be long term productive guys. AJ dropped a number of balls early in his career. His hands were inconsistent and he got better. Not Hopkins good - but better and because the dude was so good otherwise, the fans overlooked the occasional drop. I remember at least a couple of times that AJ had ultra critical drops late in games and the fans didn't run him out of town on a rail. I suspect Fuller will be the same. He'll help the Texans win many games, but I suspect he'll have a few critical drops during his career.
Fuller is a stud and I suspect he'll be a rookie of the year candidate when all is said and done.
Such a defensive stance? For pointing out that other receivers have drops also? Is it not okay to reply to your post unless we just agree with what you say with no other comments?
you pointed out Fullers drops as if it was a big deal and he dropped more than he caught. You posted
And when people point out that it was 1 ONE drop, you go ballistic and throw out stuff like
Perhaps you need to get over yourself
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
This will be my last post to you because this isn't going anywhere. You either aren't understanding or your so caught up in protecting your cub that logic has escaped you.
1) https://www.profootballfocus.com/drop-percentage/
That's only for 2010 but you should get the point. If you think he dropped one ball/game you are mis-remembering.
Btw, Andre dropping passes was something I talked about at the time as well. One drop that burns in my mind that doesn't get much burn is the drop he had against Baltimore on the first series of the game when TJ Yates was a rookie. I thought that pass was a huge detriment at the time and that wasn't a pass where he got behind everyone and was going to score. It wasn't even a huge gain. It was like a twenty yard out but but we were rolling at the time and I didn't think that the best player on the team at the time should drop that ball because it was beautifully thrown by Yates.
2) regarding fuller and not complaining. Wake up. When did "he needs to improve. On that" become complaining? Also, we didn't 'buy' Fuller. Football isn't like going to pick the groceries. It's like watching someone else pick the groceries and make the stew. But for a fan it's like the only restaraunts in town. You're all over the place and aren't making any sense.
Yeah as long as he makes up for it there's not an issue. But that's not how life is approached. You don't know if you'll always be able to make up for it so what smart people do is try to correct the issue.
Do you think that the coaches or fuller himself are sitting around watching the drops he consistently has and saying "hey bud, **** it...you know, just as long as you make up for it"
Or do you think they are saying, "great game...need to make that catch though"
Get off the gas.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Don't understand your different universe statement. Are you denying that AJ dropped passes? On average probably one a game
Texansfan69
Noob
He is as promised, fast, coachable, may drop one here or there, but he will fix that. A legitimate threat that the Texans needed. A very exciting time to be a Texans fan. Coleman, Doctson or Fuller, I was happy to get either. The front office failed to call me before the pick so, it is what it is, I am in 100%.
Then explain where it's wrong. You don't need to be cryptic. Am I the only one that is misunderstanding you?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Like I said, he had a great day. He dropped a ball, but because this was an issue that people started to bring up during the draft process, people are reacting like he had the worst hands ever and that he can't catch. He can catch. But he's human. Dropping a single ball in a game doesn't mean that he's Jacoby Jones, but I've seen people on various forums warning that he is.
I haven't seen a problem with him, yet. I've only seen him be human.
I haven't seen a problem with him, yet. I've only seen him be human.
Nice bailout... have a good day
Did you squeal with delight when he dropped his pass or were you too spent after the Brock interception?
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Yeah I don't get the Jacoby comparison either, especially this early. Seems people are trying to create the impression that us fans turned on him suddenly after the playoff fumble/muff, but that's not quite true, we had been frustrated by his inconsistency for a few years already, that ravens game was just icing on the cake.
I guess I missed it, who compared him to Jacoby?
Brandon420tx
Flounder
noxiousdog
Rookie
Terrell Owens and Randy Moss must be terrible in your world. Only Braylon Edwards and Dwayne Bowe had worse drop percentages from 2008-2010.
It's something Fuller has to work on. Others have to work on running routes or getting open. It happens. I wasn't happy when Hopkins missed the ball in the end zone.
Regardless, the positives way, way, way outweighed the negative. Fuller had a wonderful game for a rookie, even one drafted in the first round.
PapaL
Loose Screw
History/Stats don't agree with you JB.
Source: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2015/
2009 101 Catches 7 Drops 171 Targets 59.1% Target % 4.1 Drop%
2009 12 Drops lead league (Vernon Davis)
2010 86 catches 7 drops 138 targets 62.3% Target% 5.1 Drop%
2010 13 Drops lead league (Wes Welker)
2011 33 catches 3 drops 51 target 64.7% 5.9%
2011 14 Drops lead league (Roddy White)
2012 112 catches 6 drops 162 targets 69.1% 3.7%
2012 14 Drops lead league (Jimmy Graham)
2013 109 catches 8 drops 181 targets 60.2% 4.4%
2013 Nuk 52 catches 2 drops 91 targets 57.1% 2.2%
2013 12 Drops lead league (Brandon Marshall)
2014 85 catches 4 drops 147 targets 57.8% 2.7%
2014 Nuk 76 catches 4 drops 127 targets 59.8% 3.2%
2014 10 Drops lead league (Kelvin Benjamin)
2015 Indy AJ 41 catches 4 drops 77 targets 53.2% 5.2%
2015 Nuk 111 catches 3 drops 192 targets 57.8% 1.6%
2015 11 Drops lead league (Mike Evans)
I think we all agree that it's something he needs to work on.
Andre didn't drop a pass a game on avg. Sportingcharts has him at about 76 drops total, so roughly .5 a drop a game for his career.
Fuller will continue to drop passes. He'll also blow the doors off of DB's and make plays. It's just his game. He's been doing so his football life and it's just part of how he plays. The hope is they won't be in key moments in games and that he'll make enough positive plays to do far more than just offset the occasional flub. But his tape in college showed drops consistently and it didn't take but his first couple or so targets as a pro to put it to light. Of course he also showed a few targets in that that offset is not just possible but very very doable.
This is simply who we knew we were getting. There's just a balance that goes with him. It's the Fuller equation ...
(Bigplays / Stonemitts) x Timing
Fuller will continue to drop passes. He'll also blow the doors off of DB's and make plays. It's just his game. He's been doing so his football life and it's just part of how he plays. The hope is they won't be in key moments in games and that he'll make enough positive plays to do far more than just offset the occasional flub. But his tape in college showed drops consistently and it didn't take but his first couple or so targets as a pro to put it to light. Of course he also showed a few targets in that that offset is not just possible but very very doable.
This is simply who we knew we were getting. There's just a balance that goes with him. It's the Fuller equation ...
(Bigplays / Stonemitts) x Timing
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
You should probably go back and read because your post doesn't make any sense at all.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Yoooooo! That is too damn funny.
noxiousdog
Rookie
Code:
Wide Receivers, Bottom 10 Drop Percentage, 2008-2010
Rank Player Team Receptions Drops Catchable Drop %
36 Santana Moss WAS 242 29 271 10.70%
37 Brandon Marshall MIA 291 37 328 11.28%
38 Nate Washington TEN 136 18 154 11.69%
39 Marques Colston NO 220 30 250 12.00%
40 Pierre Garcon IND 144 20 164 12.20%
41 DeSean Jackson PHI 187 26 213 12.21%
42 Randy Moss MIN 185 26 211 12.32%
43 Terrell Owens CIN 196 28 224 12.50%
44 Dwayne Bowe KC 205 33 238 13.87%
45 Braylon Edwards NYJ 168 29 197 14.72%xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I agree with this, however on the bolded...
As I said earlier I'm not ready to accept this as status quo. He's a young player so he can improve on it. I'd like to see him improve on it.
Not sure how they get their drop stats... they show Fido with only 1 drop last year and that sure doesn't seem right to me. Regardless, we do agree that it is something he needs to work on, as all receivers do. I'm sure Hopkins is beating himself up today after his drop yesterday. Fuller will get better at it also
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I loved Jacoby Jones. I'd have much rather kept him that extra year or two than KDub. Whether Jacoby was catching balls or not, defenses were following him. I think it made it much harder to run the ball (he was also a pretty dang good downfield blocker).
The problem with Jacoby was that we tried to make him our #2 WR & he just wasn't going to make it there. We needed a Jalen Strong, or even Jabar Gafney playing opposite Andre & throw Jacoby in situationally.
Anyway... I'm not saying Fuller's one drop a game isn't anything to worry about. I'd just like to see it play out a little more before I make too big a deal out of it. He may grow out of it like Aj did. Or he may excel in spite of it like T.O. did. Or he might fade out of the NFL like Jacoby did.
But right now, they're using him in more ways than you'd think they'd use a 9 route runner. & that's looking good for us right now.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
sad but true. Folks talking about being ok with him dropping occasional passes aren't factoring in the timing of these drops.
noxiousdog
Rookie
I read the article from top to bottom. I guess I came away with a different conclusion than you did.
Hope for your sake you aren't holding your breath. It's not like he wasn't beat over the head with this criticism all offseason through the draft and so on.
Then the first game out ...
... just saying, catching a ball naturally and softly isn't so much an acquired skill like hand fighting on a pass rush, reading coverages, taking angles defensively, etc. It's more akin to every time we hear about a QB guru cleaning up some kids throwing motion and you just know no matter how much you've heard about his improvement that when the bullets start flying around for real that kid is going to revert back to what he's done his previous 10-15 years of learning the game.
Not saying he can't work to marginalize it some, and I believe he'll put in that work. It's going to happen though. Disagree all you like.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Andre worked on his drops And he was not what I'd call a natural catcher though he had some amazing grabs. Fuller has some pretty good grabs on tape as well and he doesn't always catch with his body.
And I know catching is a skill that most either have or don't, but the balls he drops are of the wide open variety.
He can work to improve on that. I expect him to have drops and even more than what I'd like him to have, ever wr has drops every corner gets beat. Ever qb throws picks....ect....
But I want to see fewer occurrences of those drops from Fuller. That's all I want. Is for this not to be something extremely regular.
Have no clue what you are getting at with your last statement in bold.
Didn't mean to sound too argumentative there. Just think there's only so much he'll improve it, if much at all.
He's only been in one game. We don't even know when these other drops are going to be.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Fuller had an amazing catch on the sideline later in the game that took incredible concentration and great hands. He also scooped up a low pass on that inside tunnel screen style play that was a TD play.
When looking at the entire picture, he had the best debut for a WR I can recall in a long time....even with the drop. Better than AJ. He absolutely looks like he belongs and he does not look like a rookie finding his way.
And he is not just a deep threat although obviously he is an excellent one. It's harder to cover a guy like Fuller - he can beat you at the line of scrimmage like we saw on the last TD. He can beat you in the intermediate routes, and he can take the top off the D as well. He's much more well-rounded than I thought. He's going to be a beast.
I totally think he is a rookie of the year candidate in the making and he is a near perfect pairing to Dhop's skillset.
I expect this to perhaps be thought of as the best pair of WR in the league by next year.
When looking at the entire picture, he had the best debut for a WR I can recall in a long time....even with the drop. Better than AJ. He absolutely looks like he belongs and he does not look like a rookie finding his way.
And he is not just a deep threat although obviously he is an excellent one. It's harder to cover a guy like Fuller - he can beat you at the line of scrimmage like we saw on the last TD. He can beat you in the intermediate routes, and he can take the top off the D as well. He's much more well-rounded than I thought. He's going to be a beast.
I totally think he is a rookie of the year candidate in the making and he is a near perfect pairing to Dhop's skillset.
I expect this to perhaps be thought of as the best pair of WR in the league by next year.
Kid just need to move J.J. out of the way after practices and get some quality time with the JUGS machine. Every chance he gets.
I liked what we saw yesterday. I think defenses having to respect a deep pass game will open up shorter routes and the running game. And I liked that Brock kept going to him and neither seemed to lose any confidence.
I'm not going to worry about things that might happen at this point in time.
I liked what we saw yesterday. I think defenses having to respect a deep pass game will open up shorter routes and the running game. And I liked that Brock kept going to him and neither seemed to lose any confidence.
I'm not going to worry about things that might happen at this point in time.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The much more difficult catch he made on the sideline afterwards tells me that his earlier TD drop was more of a concentration thing...combined with a little nerves this being his 1st game and all. Demaryius Thomas and few others I can't recall right now were said to have similar issues coming out of college too & they turned out just fine. I have no doubt he'll put in the work though and as he matures & learns how to be a WR on this level, I suspect that it won't be that big of an issue going forward in his career.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Which is exactly why I'd just like to see him drop less of them which would decrease the odds that he'd have one that would cost us all together.
But the thing is, even if he were to drop a game winning score, there would probably be a million other things in the game that went wrong for there to even be a reason we'd need a deep late bomb to him.
'Yeah he dropped that one pass, but what about the other messed up plays that got us to that point...'
I became a big fan of Fuller after we drafted him so folks acting like I'm picking on him for the ONE drop are barking up the wrong tree. Check the post history. I said early on the guy isn't just a deep threat and that he has some really nice hand catches. Watch his ND film. I think he was underrated by some in the draft process including myself.
The guy just went and had the best opening day for a rookie wr in Texans history. You can't really ask for much better than that.
BUT....I want to see him drop the ball a bit less. Sorry if that offends people. Not really.
Last edited:
^^^^
This
What I find humorous is the Texans finally find a homerun threat opposite Nuk (Unlike what they were able to do when AJ was here.) and fans are worried that Fuller dropped 1 ball, meanwhile he was the best WR on the field yesterday for the Texans.
Let the firestorm begin.
The last statement is just typical MW BS.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You don't have to know when they're going to be, but it's safe to assume that if they happen to occur at a critical juncture in the game/season you or anyone else won't be ok with it.
How is that exactly versus just how I explained it?
You seem always throw in some little statement at the end of a good post that doesn't really need to be made.
Eh, it's the Will Fuller in me...
Can't we all just pick on JamTex??
PapaL
Loose Screw
Make a thread! Pre Pre Pick On Jam Game Day Thread.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Perki-Perk
DieHard Texan!
Back to the regularly scheduled board topic:
I think Fuller looked like what I was expecting. Besides that drop, He played a damn good game and I was definitely impressed by his ability to evade tackle in the open field on that screen. Looking forward to more from Will V
I think Fuller looked like what I was expecting. Besides that drop, He played a damn good game and I was definitely impressed by his ability to evade tackle in the open field on that screen. Looking forward to more from Will V
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
And, to me, the worry seems to be real. He was wide open on that drop on what could have been an 80+ yard TD reception. It also came at a point in the game where we were losing. The debate is legitimate: what happens when the drop actually costs us a game?