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JaDeveon Clowney

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I have it understood that Bush was going to be the pick up until negotiations got underway before the draft but his team was very demanding. They then offered Mario the same deal and they didn't hesitate to accept so the call for Mario was made instead.
 
Hookem Horns said:
I find that hard to believe considering he was a lame duck GM on his way out the door and was drooling all over Reggie Bush.

Why would McNair allow Casserly to make that choice when he was getting ready to fire him?
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Casserly convinced McNair that Bush had some past troubles that were likely to surface (they did) and also pointed out to McNair and Kubiak that Bush would likely get less than 15 touches per game.

Casserly is responsible for the Mario pick, has said so on several occasions and that his reputation rested on Mario. There have been others who corroborate Casserly's claim. Casserly also told city of Houston if they didn't like the pick not to hate on Mario but hate on him (Casserly) because he was responsible for the pick. McNair or Kubiak have never refuted the Casserly claim. Kubiak said it was Casserly who convinced everyone to take Owen Daniels.

Charlie Casserly on SportRadio 610 tonight (Apr. 28) http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=112226
 
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So, is, Clown going to be rdy foe wk1....???

I hope he plays 16 games this, year and 12 sacks is that,2 much to ask for a 1st round pick
 
After reading CnD report and reading a OL from Ravens ( i think it was Ravens who has also had the same operation)

I think we will at best case get an average OLB back from surgery.

Will loose power pace and the ability to cut.

If he wad an OL i wouldn't be to downhearted but he is a high energy fast OLB.

please tell me i am wrong in this Doc :(
 
Tearstain said:
After reading CnD report and reading a OL from Ravens ( i think it was Ravens who has also had the same operation)

I think we will at best case get an average OLB back from surgery.

Will loose power pace and the ability to cut.

If he wad an OL i wouldn't be to downhearted but he is a high energy fast OLB.

please tell me i am wrong in this Doc :(
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Clowney specifically underwent a procedure called microfracture with the addition of AMIC (Autologous Matrix-Induced Chondrogenesis). This is a microfracture surgery which is performed with a collagen/cartilage scalfold into which bone marrow cells which migrate out of the microfracture drill holes will grow into. The typical fibrocartilage incorporates into the scalfolding which is placed over the original area of bare bone and forms a closer form to true hyaline articular cartilage. This is still an imperfect articular cartilage, since the aforementioned process will actually produce a mixed structure of fat, bone, fibrous and hyaline cartilage. Good controlled comparative studies have not shown this new technique to be superior or at least significantly superior to microfracture alone. There is few long-term data available on this procedure and most studies reflect results taken from a wide range of age groups and professions. There is a lack of convincing data certainly in the elite professional sports category, and in particular NFL players.

Studies have reflected recommendations for return to play anywhere from 6-18 months, although most are from 9-12 months for contact sports. A 2013 German study layed out their preferred approach to rehab.........leg press at at 7 months, jogging and skiing at 9-12 months, and contact sports at 18 months.

It must be emphasized that the technique utilized in Clowney's case, one that expects the production of a higher articular hyaline content cartilage production than with the classic microfracture surgery, that's actually as far as the conclusions can be formed. Studies have suggested that the repair tissue formed after MACI may indeed be more hyaline-like and therefore of higher quality and durability than the regenerate formed following microfracture alone. However, the association between hyaline-like structural repair and improved clinical outcome remains unproven and controversial.

Clowney is likely to come back after ~9 months to 1 year following surgery. But his return level of performance at his size and his sport and his player position makes it likely that there should be decreased performance expectations as compared to what they were prior to the injury(ies). After the first 1-2 years, there is reason to believe that his performance will resume a path of further deterioration.

But, hope should not be lost altogether for him returning as a significant cog in the Texans D. Every player and every procedure performed on a player has highly variable individual results.............all the way from miraculous to dismal. Let's wait and see, while supporting him in his attempt to beat the odds and return as an example closer to the former.:texflag:
 
mussop said:
Clowney has no heart or drive... He's a quitter hands down!


Gotta love social media
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Trade the bum for a better position in the draft, especially the 1st round. He's never going to be productive here, with the Texans' medical staff like it is.
 
Brisco_County said:
Ok, I won't tell any trade partners that he had microfracture surgery if you don't.
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It's a MB (or facebook, or twitter, or bleacher report). Reality doesn't matter, there's always someone that will make a ridiculous trade just so you can keep playing the "I'm smarter than every other GM out there" game
 
This still, and most likely will forever remain, the most depressing thread on TexansTalk. God, what a fustercluck of a wasted pick.
 
Marcus said:
This still, and most likely will forever remain, the most depressing thread on TexansTalk. God, what a fustercluck of a wasted pick.
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I'm following the proscribed rule* of "you can't analyze a rookie until he's been in the league three years". Until then, I won't know if he suffered multiple injuries since joining the team and was out all year.



*applies only to negative analysis of Texans players
 
Runner said:
I'm following the proscribed rule* of "you can't analyze a rookie until he's been in the league three years". Until then, I won't know if he suffered multiple injuries since joining the team and was out all year.



*applies only to negative analysis of Texans players
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Good rule. Look at B. Jones & B. Brooks.
 
Marcus said:
This still, and most likely will forever remain, the most depressing thread on TexansTalk. God, what a fustercluck of a wasted pick.
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Is there an award given for being the first one to call a player a bust? I just wonder because some people do it with such vehemence and certainty so often.
 
Marshall said:
Is there an award given for being the first one to call a player a bust? I just wonder because some people do it with such vehemence and certainty so often.
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I agree with that sentiment in almost every case, EXCEPT this one.

I don't care how much they, or you, or anyone else, wants to try to put a positive spin on it with all this "microfracture" BS, bone on bone is bone on bone.

The top pick of draft has a permanent bum knee, so how else are you going to describe it?
 
JB said:
It's a MB (or facebook, or twitter, or bleacher report). Reality doesn't matter, there's always someone that will make a ridiculous trade just so you can keep playing the "I'm smarter than every other GM out there" game
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We should have traded the 1st pick overall for Andrew Luck . :peek:
 
Marcus said:
I agree with that sentiment in almost every case, EXCEPT this one.



I don't care how much they, or you, or anyone else, wants to try to put a positive spin on it with all this "microfracture" BS, bone on bone is bone on bone.



The top pick of draft has a permanent bum knee, so how else are you going to describe it?
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I agree, it's just a horrible injury to have. And his position and the way he was gifted was exploding out of his stance, how could this injury not slow that down. And if he ain't got that anymore, then what's he got?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Studies have reflected recommendations for return to play anywhere from 6-18 months, although most are from 9-12 months for contact sports. A 2013 German study layed out their preferred approach to rehab.........leg press at at 7 months, jogging and skiing at 9-12 months, and contact sports at 18 months.
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In the meantime, between the surgery & leg presses at 7 months, is there any prescribed period of complete inactivity, or strict no load bearing recommendations? Should his leg be in a cast or something?

Or is he allowed to walk on it & does this affect the formation of the new cartilage/fibro-cartilage?
 
From his surgeon...
The final component of successful microfracture is strict adherence to a rehab regimen. For the first five days, the knee has to be completely immobilized, then crutches are required for seven or eight more weeks before the leg becomes weight-bearing again. While professional athletes like Clowney have only to worry about recovering, the routine becomes problematic, Lowe conceded, "for those of us living in the normal world.

"Being on crutches for that long is hard, and you're going to lose a lot of strength, so then it takes a long time gain it back," he said. "You have to be committed totally to the whole process. But often we give up because we [average people] just don't have the time to put into it."
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thunderkyss said:
In the meantime, between the surgery & leg presses at 7 months, is there any prescribed period of complete inactivity, or strict no load bearing recommendations? Should his leg be in a cast or something?

Or is he allowed to walk on it & does this affect the formation of the new cartilage/fibro-cartilage?
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Playoffs has outlined what happens in the first 8-9 weeks.

It is important to understand that once weight-bearing is allowed, it doesn't in any way imply immediate weight-bearing as most would think of it. Building up to full (but still soft, non-impact) weight-bearing as most know it takes up to 7 months, at which time jogging may be typically commenced. Of course, there can be some variation from patient to patient and surgeon to surgeon.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Playoffs has outlined what happens in the first 8-9 weeks.

It is important to understand that once weight-bearing is allowed, it doesn't in any way imply immediate weight-bearing as most would think of it. Building up to full (but still soft, non-impact) weight-bearing as most know it takes up to 7 months, at which time jogging may be typically commenced. Of course, there can be some variation from patient to patient and surgeon to surgeon.
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In most cases, does the surgeon assess no complications as the determining factor seven months, or whatever from surgery, or do they do xrays & MRIs to "see" how the repair is taking?
 
thunderkyss said:
In most cases, does the surgeon assess no complications as the determining factor seven months, or whatever from surgery, or do they do xrays & MRIs to "see" how the repair is taking?
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Clinical evaluation is the mainstay of following these patients. Typically, you would probably not obtain a MRI before 12-15 months following the surgery to obtain solid information. Football players, however, because of an MRI's ready availability to them, may have one prior to allowing weight-bearing....~6-8 months. Additional MRI's may be then be also taken at intervals to follow the progression of the state of the knee cartilage (and other structures). The focus would be to determine the amount of cartilage defect fill, its contour (smooth or bumpy), the extent of integration of the new "cartilage" with the adjacent undamaged cartilage, any bone marrow abnormalities secondary to the drilling. There will also be careful attention to new cartilage defects, including those known to be created by the drilling itself. Some surgeons will actually do a "second-look" arthroscopy.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clinical evaluation is the mainstay of following these patients. Typically, you would probably not obtain a MRI before 12-15 months following the surgery to obtain solid information. Football players, however, because of an MRI's ready availability to them, may have one prior to allowing weight-bearing....~6-8 months. Additional MRI's may be then be also taken at intervals to follow the progression of the state of the knee cartilage (and other structures). The focus would be to determine the amount of cartilage defect fill, its contour (smooth or bumpy), the extent of integration of the new "cartilage" with the adjacent undamaged cartilage, any bone marrow abnormalities secondary to the drilling. There will also be careful attention to new cartilage defects, including those known to be created by the drilling itself. Some surgeons will actually do a "second-look" arthroscopy.
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That isn't a typo 5 times in the same post.:pop:

The Texans should hire CnD.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Clinical evaluation is the mainstay of following these patients. Typically, you would probably not obtain a MRI before 12-15 months following the surgery to obtain solid information. Football players, however, because of an MRI's ready availability to them, may have one prior to allowing weight-bearing....~6-8 months. Additional MRI's may be then be also taken at intervals to follow the progression of the state of the knee cartilage (and other structures). The focus would be to determine the amount of cartilage defect fill, its contour (smooth or bumpy), the extent of integration of the new "cartilage" with the adjacent undamaged cartilage, any bone marrow abnormalities secondary to the drilling. There will also be careful attention to new cartilage defects, including those known to be created by the drilling itself. Some surgeons will actually do a "second-look" arthroscopy.
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Are there dietary adjustments that could be used to assist the body's healing process? ...I dunno, like calcium (and I'm just guessing) supplements?
 
ObsiWan said:
Are there dietary adjustments that could be used to assist the body's healing process? ...I dunno, like calcium (and I'm just guessing) supplements?
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Some surgeons will direct patients in the first 6 months post surgery to take oral supplements of glucosamine hydrocholride and/or chondroitin sulfate to inhibit degradation and facilitate cartilage generation or healing. However, due to the almost non-existent blood supply to cartilage, there is very little that cartilage heals itself.......with or without supplements. There are many products out there that are heavily promoted for such purposes based on some animal studies and anecdote. However, HUMAN studies have proven very discouraging........and there is virtually no legitimate data to show that these products work any better than placebo.

Some surgeons may use regimens of calcium with magnesium and vitamin D as a combination, S-Adenosyl-Methionine and Methylsulfonylmethane post surgery. However, whether they add to the healing process in any significant fashion is highly controversial and to date unlikely.
 
"EAST RUTHERFORD ‐ Microfracture. It might be one of the most feared words for a football player.

When you hear it, you wince. Microfracture surgery ruined the career of promising Giants receiver Steve Smith and so many other NFL players over the years.

This is what Giants cornerback Bennett Jackson faces. The sixth-round pick this year out of Notre Dame had microfracture surgery on his knee back in October.

"If you were to ask me if I'd rather an athlete tear his ACL or have this problem, I would take the ACL tear," UCF team doctor Michael Jablonski told Yahoo! Sports recently about cartilage damage in the knee and needing microfracture surgery. Jablonski has performed microfracture surgery and trained under renowned surgeon Dr. James Andrews.

"It's much more likely he would come back at the same level with an ACL," he said.

Fortunately, Jackson's confident that the cartilage damage in his knee wasn't as severe as "microfracture" usually suggests.

"They said it depends on the hole. I had a small one," Jackson said this past week as the Giants players left for the offseason. "They said my recovery there shouldn't be any problems. I'm already lifting on it and stuff. It feels good."

Keep hope alive! Hopefully the damage to Clowney's knee was "small" as well. But reading CnD's posts lead my me to believe that his may have been bigger since they used AMIC as well.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/..._on_the_mend_from_micro_fracture_surgery.html
 
thunderkyss said:
With the procedure they elected to use for repair, I think it's safe to say the damaged area was greater than 2.5 cm, which I believe is relatively large.
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Agreed. Safest strategy from a team perspective is to plan as if Clowney is not on the squad. If that makes OLB a position of need (it does), then address it.

If we get Clowney back in football shape then it's a bonus.
 
ung14 said:
Keep hope alive! Hopefully the damage to Clowney's knee was "small" as well. But reading CnD's posts lead my me to believe that his may have been bigger since they used AMIC as well.
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Although I suspect that the extent of damage to Clowney's knee may be greater than what has been released, the addition of AMIC to microfracture does not tell us the exact size of the cartilage deficiency. The technique is typically felt to be indicated for lesions 2 cms or smaller (just as microfracture surgery alone), although it (like microfracture) has been attempted in defects as large as 10 cms. The AMIC technique is mainly added in an attempt to enhanced the results of the microfracture surgery........not to attempt to extend the optimal size of defects treated.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although I suspect that the extent of damage to Clowney's knee may be greater than what has been released, the addition of AMIC to microfracture does not tell us the exact size of the cartilage deficiency. The technique is typically felt to be indicated for lesions 2 cms or smaller (just as microfracture surgery alone), although it (like microfracture) has been attempted in defects as large as 10 cms. The AMIC technique is mainly added in an attempt to enhanced the results of the microfracture surgery........not to attempt to extend the optimal size of defects treated.
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Okay well that's good to read.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Although I suspect that the extent of damage to Clowney's knee may be greater than what has been released, the addition of AMIC to microfracture does not tell us the exact size of the cartilage deficiency. The technique is typically felt to be indicated for lesions 2 cms or smaller (just as microfracture surgery alone), although it (like microfracture) has been attempted in defects as large as 10 cms. The AMIC technique is mainly added in an attempt to enhanced the results of the microfracture surgery........not to attempt to extend the optimal size of defects treated.
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If it were you making the recommendation based on the injuries you suspect, would you recommend pointing to 2016 rather than risk further injury in 2015?
 
Marshall said:
If it were you making the recommendation based on the injuries you suspect, would you recommend pointing to 2016 rather than risk further injury in 2015?
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His clinical progress will have to determine when he should return. Interesting to note that cartilage "healing" as determined by MRI in the case of microfracture + AMIC has not correlated well to when the player is ready to return to play.....or the level of performance that is being attained as "healing" is occurring (although we expect that at its peak, it will not reach what he could have achieved prior to the injury[ies]). Clowney has a good chance of returning in 2015, but at what level is much up in the air. The longer he plays, the more wear to the "new" cartilage (which will still not be as durable as the original), and likely the more his performance in time shows a decrease (very commonly after one year back on the field of play, performance has shown this downward trend). He will also have to be "kinder" to his knee and focus on simply strengthening the muscles stabilizing his joint........and not follow the example of the "super" rehab workouts of Cushing..........unless he wants to wear down his reconstruction at an accelerated pace.

To answer you question, I don't see much advantage to keeping him out of football for longer than an HONEST assessment of his clinical progress dictates.
 
With all the spins, what ifs, and magically modified microfracture procedures, it seems Texans fans will have to come to grips with with a less than desirable outcome:

Clowney will probably have a shortened career that is never at the level projected for him.
 
One of the four most disappointing rookies:

4. Jadeveon Clowney, defensive end, Houston Texans
2014 statistics: 0 sacks, 5 tackles
The Houston Texans selected Jadeveon Clowney with the first overall pick in this year’s NFL Draft. His sheer size, athleticism, and explosiveness was undeniable. Although some questioned his work ethic and commitment to the sport, there was no doubt surrounding his potential. Clowney is a freak athlete, and the destruction he might inflict upon opposing offenses when paired with all-world defensive end J.J. Watt was just too much to pass up.

Things didn’t quite work out that way. Clowney’s rookie year was plagued with injuries, and he only performed in four games. Clowney recently underwent microfracture knee surgery and is expect to be out for nine months. Here’s to hoping he can return to full force and make up for an unbelievably disappointing rookie year.
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Link
 
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