True, but he also witnessed guys getting cut left and right.
I mean, we're all Human.
AJ "recruited" a friend of his to come here, and they cut him for "questionable" reason.
I don't want to speculate, just stating how I would feel, if I was AJ.
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All Encompassing Andre Johnson Thread (Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson)
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True, but he also witnessed guys getting cut left and right.
I mean, we're all Human.
AJ "recruited" a friend of his to come here, and they cut him for "questionable" reason.
I don't want to speculate, just stating how I would feel, if I was AJ.
That would work, too, hahaha.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
If you're talking about Ed Reed.. There was nothing questionable about his release. That guy was completely washed up and was just loafing it for one last cash grab. He should of been brought up on theft charges honestly.
/ENd Thread...
Exactly!!
CB, I would worry more about hardcore Texans fans/ Tailgaters that echo AJ's thoughts whether they come to fruition or not. I'll be there at "Blue Crew" unless I retire.
Blue Crew is going to someday accept life without Texan_Bill and that day is coming sooner rather than later.
Again!!!
Not sure I understand your meaning here, Bro!
What if you get an "indecent proposal" from a hot chick in faraway land; so hot you can't refuse, LOL.
That was the 2nd worse pun I've ever heard.
But if it makes you feel better, you lost to this one...
Easy for certain fans to come to a conclusion.
Let's say that Reed was a total wash-up; I still think there were better ways to handle the situation.
You have your regular job and a side job as a draftnik; I think that's a hard enough life
You so kicked my ass with this...MSRThat was the 2nd worse pun I've ever heard.
But if it makes you feel better, you lost to this one...
That was the 2nd worse pun I've ever heard.
But if it makes you feel better, you lost to this one...
Good one, Obsi.
I still think Docbar's line was pretty good.
It's not original, but still good.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Like how? Keep paying or throwing a player out on the field that was playing like total crap? How many plays did he even make. (did he do anything with the Jets?) With how horrible he played for how much he was making, coupled with the fact that he probably still viewed himself as a top player.. They handled that situation about as well as you could handle it.
The money was already spent.
If you can't get the play out of a vet; you would want him to tutor the young guys, don't you ?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He may have not been healthy and wanted another season to get paid, but you're dead wrong here. The Texans organization looked so weak for dropping him at that point because he called the organization out. He was right. They were terrible regime for years and Reed came to a team that was completely dysfunctional and he called it out publicly. IT was about time one of the players did. To bad it didn't happen years before that. Meanwhile, Kubiak was still babying Schaub.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
So you would of kept paying a player or kept a player in your locker room.. Who was basically doing absolutely nothing for you out on the field and was also talking **** about you and was becoming a malcontent cancer? That IS the definition of "weak" LOL. Sorry Ed Reed regardless of what he said, that wasn't why he was cut. It probably forced their hand and sped up the release, but he was going to get released eventually anyways. His play on the field was so bad he was barely getting any reps. I have no issue with the Texans dropping that axe.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
You really think Ed Reed was interested in passing the knowledge after that relationship soured?
MEGA SWATT
All Pro
One of the curses of having a great player with tenure on a "recent" expansion team with no title runs.......
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Docbar,
What the hell you do for fun in El Centro, dude?
I like to travel the open road and had thought about that stretch.
Haven't got enticed enough to do it.
I've traveled some 36 states; California about 30 times.
Still remember the first time we rode out to California in my Senior year in highschool; we spent more money on oil than gas (the freaking car was leaking oil all the way.)
That was back in 76.
They must pay you well.
Or ... you're about to complain to? LOL
What the hell you do for fun in El Centro, dude?
I like to travel the open road and had thought about that stretch.
Haven't got enticed enough to do it.
I've traveled some 36 states; California about 30 times.
Still remember the first time we rode out to California in my Senior year in highschool; we spent more money on oil than gas (the freaking car was leaking oil all the way.)
That was back in 76.
They must pay you well.
Or ... you're about to complain to? LOL
mattieuk
All Pro
Pickspatrick, no #1TE, RB, MLB coming off injuries. No #2 DE, new NT, new FS and your #1 WR (potential HoF candidate) isn't sure this is the place for him?....naah, I can't imagine why anyone would think the Texans were rebuilding.
That hardly describes a rebuild to me. A rebuild in my eyes would typically be reflected by the shedding of older, high performing, non long term personel (i.e. people exactly like AJ who the organisation has not traded) in exchange for mostly future considerations such as valued draft picks and young players who are not developed to their peaks yet.
The situation you have described features some top quality players coming back from bad injuries which helped cause the team to go 2-14 last year. The situation also has a few new players coming into a team needing to make an immeadiate impact, which happens all over the league to good and bad teams thanks to the draft and FA.
As for the QB situation everyone gave up on Schaub half way through last year to try out the unproven local QB - it was an inconsistent nightmare of a situation which was not conducive to winning games. The organisation respond to what the fans were demanding by getting rid of Schaub and replacing him with a QB who the new coaching staff obviously think can work in the system to a degree, and also draft a promising looking QB with a mid-round draft pick. I'm really struggling to see how this is a rebuild, rather than a new coaching staff changing a few players, whilst happening to have a change of QB during the offseason.
There are a string of first round QB draft picks who have been monumental busts, and a list of QBs who were not drafted in the first couple of rounds who have gone on to be HOFers. Im not sure what NFL history you think shows me up there?
As for the front office - their track record has been hit and miss (like every team). This is however, a draft obviously heavily influenced by what OB is trying to do and doesnt appear consistent with previous drafts to me.
Sorry, but I'm excited for Fall. I'm excited to see how the new system works, I'm excited to see how the rookies develop and I'm excited for the Texans to make a playoff run. I really hope that there is someone who can help share some of that excitement with AJ.
That the problem right there!
As an organization, the Texans brought Reed in.
They didn't get the return on investment.
I blame them for not doing the due-digillence nor having a concrete plan as to how to go about achieving it.
The season was lost (for me) right then and there.
No leadership.
Vance87
All Pro
So AJ has only played for money?
RTP2110
All Pro
Well, when AJ says, "is this the place for me'' that doesn't sound like he's contemplating retirement. It sounds like he wants to be someplace else. I don't think this is a retirement situation. We all understand his frustration. He has already rebuilt from drafting #1 overall once before, and where did that get him? Right back to drafting #1 overall again. I get it.
The problem, IMO, is I don't see where he has any leverage other than to retire. He can't force the Texans to trade him. Even if they did agree to do it, there's still no guarantee that they trade him to a contender. (You can't force NE, SF, or GB to participate in a trade) I see many posters saying the Texans should do him a solid and trade him to NE, but why should they? If he is going to play hardball with the FO, then they should do the same. He can demand a trade, and still end up in Buffalo or St Louis.
I love AJ to death, but you don't just get to be frustrated, and then automatically get traded to a contender no matter who you are. He's under contact for 3 years, and if the FO doesn't want to trade him, then he can either show up or retire.
The problem, IMO, is I don't see where he has any leverage other than to retire. He can't force the Texans to trade him. Even if they did agree to do it, there's still no guarantee that they trade him to a contender. (You can't force NE, SF, or GB to participate in a trade) I see many posters saying the Texans should do him a solid and trade him to NE, but why should they? If he is going to play hardball with the FO, then they should do the same. He can demand a trade, and still end up in Buffalo or St Louis.
I love AJ to death, but you don't just get to be frustrated, and then automatically get traded to a contender no matter who you are. He's under contact for 3 years, and if the FO doesn't want to trade him, then he can either show up or retire.
The team has Zero incentive to trade him. His contract makes him very difficult to move .... lots of dead money for the team & they will get pennies on the dollar in return for his ability.
Just look at what some other high profile players have been traded for in recent years .... then realize what the team loses on the field & in terms of cap space.
The team has ..... Zero incentive to trade him.
If I'm Rick Smith in this case , I have to tell #80 to either show up and collect his millions or .... retire. The team gets more out of this scenario than trading him.
That's the harsh reality.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Alright CB, you make some fair points here I'll admit. I thought it was weak though, because he did have a leadership role where guys were willing to listen to him. It wasn't his fault that the Texans were already a lost organization at that point. Even if Reed would have played like a star last season it wouldn't have mattered and I think Reed was sort of flabbergasted at what a bogus team he went to after being on a SB team and a contending team almost every year with competent coaches. I think that once he was involved on and off the field, he couldn't believe what he had signed up for even though he was part of the problem. The Texans for years had kept sorry ass players that were not focused and were not serious about their positions on the team, and compensated guys like that. Finally a guy that really knew what he was talking about was here and he had no problem calling out the coaching staff for their ineptitude and it seemed like they were butt hurt over it and released him instead of dealing with the real core issues with other players that had brought a multitude of problems for a while.
Hey, if you want to play hard ball, I can show up and collect the money without shame.
I can play your game if that's what you want.
No hard feelings.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I hate to agree with you on this. They really don't have an incentive here since they won't get much back for him.
Also people are forgetting that O'Brien realizes that he needs to put up some wins. He needs AJ to do that with this roster. He isn't going to just throw all caution to the wind and forget that he is on the clock to build a winner here starting this year. If it makes sense to trade AJ for a really good deal that will help their future and they can financially do it, I'm sure he will but that is very likely to not be the case.
I agree. With just about every team on our schedule in just as much disarray as we are, some worse, I can't imagine them going into the season expecting to lose more than half of them, or being happy at the end of the season not winning more than half of them.
I just cant see a deal that helps the team ....
They will get pennies on the dollar in terms of compensation in a trade. Too many recent comparisons that prove this.
They will take a huge salary cap hit. That's just a fact.
They lose his production on the field.
I think the best they could expect in return is a 4th and more likely a 5th or 6th round pick .... and that's next year , no help now. How does this help the team ?!
There are no financial or winning related reasons to move #80 .... Now if they want to do him a favor for the years of service he has given them , that's another story but that has nothing to do with winning football games , the salary cap or talent in compensation.
If this is a rebuild, you do it. Even with the huge cap hit we'll be up $3.6M against the cap. It's an even bigger hit to play him.
If it's a rebuild, the lost production on the field is secondary. If we get an extra 4th in next year's draft, plus $16M cap savings next season...
If it's a rebuild, you do it & don't look back. In fact, they'd probably encouraging Aj towards accepting a trade. Tell him how they can make sure he goes to a good situation, yadda, yadda, yadda...
Heck, if they can get a 5th & a 6th it would be worth it...
If it's a rebuild.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Feel sorry for Dre. He's never had a top shelf qb nor 2nd wr. I mean,he's been through 2-14 twice. He looks at the roster and see the qb situation again and itmakes it extremely difficult.
Scooter
Funky
sorry, not sorry. look at guys like tony gonzalez or takeo spikes. winning isnt guaranteed in this game. dan marino doesnt have a ring. they play because it's being paid a ridiculous amount of money to compete on the highest level with your brothers. if andre's lost that, that sucks, but i wont be throwing him a pity party. i hope he does come back because he is that type of competitor. if he's lost his fire, he's not doing anyone a favor by mailing it in. i hope he takes his time to see if the excitement finds him again, and i'm betting it will.
to say he owes the city/team or the city/team owes him anything is garbage, just stop.
to say he owes the city/team or the city/team owes him anything is garbage, just stop.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Hopefully, this doesn't get ugly, and AJ can leave Houston gracefully. I am sure the Texans would trade him if he was willing to restructure his contract in a way that made it more appealing to potential trade partners. As great a player as AJ has been, at this point in his career, he is a softer version of Anquan Boldin... AJ is not worth his cap cost the next three years, which is more than 10 percent of the expected cap each year.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
The Texans retain the rights to him until his contract is fulfilled or they give those rights away.
What? Johnson has averaged 110 catches for 1500 yards over the past 2 seasons. That's better than Boldin's best year...in 2005. And forgive me if I don't take your opinion on the cap seriously, after you described Schaub's contract extension as a bargain.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I didn't assert that Boldin has been more productive or has had the better career. However, at this point in their careers, the only distinction I see between Boldin and AJ's game is the physicality that Boldin plays with... You are correct that AJ has continued to be targeted at a very high rate. If Boldin was in Houston last year, do you doubt his ability to perform at AJ's level? Why? What is the distinction you see that seperates the two athletes currently...I know what it was 5 years ago- AJ was much faster and more explosive... I don't see that now, though.
Bold in, by the way, is an excellent receiver. I don't think my argument is an insult to AJ... Just an acknowledgment of the effects of age and injury.
Scooter
Funky
boldin's exceptionally more inconsistent. he's slow as mud and struggles to get open, boldin's made a career of catching contested passes. combined with a tendency to get the dropses, he's hardly comparable to andre other than they're both big body receivers. boldin can certainly take over a game and make some amazing catches, but again it's too inconsistent.
NastyNate
I go kerplunk
Who's saying you can't trade him? Get a 2nd-3rd for him, save 3.7 million against the cap this year, and 30 million over the next two years. If AJ demands a trade, then I'll root for him wherever he goes but we're not tied to him like some people think. The raiders or browns are both dumb enough to make this trade happen.
TexansFTW
Veteran
We haven't paid any of our rookies yet, including the #1 overall pick. I'm pretty sure that was a big reason we weren't going after any free agents in the offseason, because we couldn't afford them. We might have some wiggle room after rookies are signed, but it won't be much and I just don't see it happening. We will see though. Yall could be right.
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HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
I had a whole big post ready to go on this but I scrapped it. Don't feel like dealing with the blind homers and sunshine pumpers. I'll just say this; Andre needs to go somewhere and win so his whole career isn't flat wasted. The Texans will be swimming in the kiddie pool for a couple more years so 'Dre needs to leave and win now. Hopefully he can wash the stench of what, only 3 winning seasons out of 12 years and 3 #1 picks in that time off of his person in time for when he goes to the HOF.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
agreed. The thing that Boldin does better is rac. Boldin has few peers here, but he too isn't what he was once the ball is in his hands. AJ has never been a great run after catch guy, but he's hands down better (still) before the catch and during the catch.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
right, it's been common knowledge that we were cap strapped. I think that is one reason we are 'rebuilding' instead of 'reloading'.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
It can't be that hard for you to put together. Higher draft picks gives you a shot at guys who are considered to be more talented than guys in the lower parts of each round. You get a QB who can execute the system going into place the best, you won't have to worry about having high draft picks any more.
Andy Dalton with the Bengals and Christian Ponder with the Vikings. Both have/had extremely talented rosters that were bogged down with not-crazy amounts of turnovers from QB's but nothing that elevates the team as a whole either. While Wilson and Flacco are both good examples of non-HOF (yet) QB's winning the SB, both guys made plays during the playoffs that guys mentioned above just can't make on a consistent basis.
O'Brien may know what he's doing but how he conducts himself with the players isn't going to be that well known this early in his tenure, and he could be a giant ******** to his players. There have been lots of guys that have come to coach from NE and I'd say most of them ended up having stories floated out from the teams after they left about how tyrannical they have been. I hope O'Brien doesn't fall into the same trappings that Mangini or McDaniels did when they got their coaching gigs, but it's tough to say he won't when there's that much history with Belichek coordinators.
kingtexan
All Pro
Have not read the whole thread so may be rehashing someone else's comment, but ...
Andre deserves to be traded if that is his wish. I would be on the phone with NE now and swap him straight up for Mallet. No reason either team wouldn't do that deal. Then I would start planning to build the man a statue in front of NRG, because up until now, he has been the best thing about this team, consistently year in and year out.
However, we may turn out to be the Ravens with Fitz being our Trent Dilfer. If we do, he misses out.
Andre deserves to be traded if that is his wish. I would be on the phone with NE now and swap him straight up for Mallet. No reason either team wouldn't do that deal. Then I would start planning to build the man a statue in front of NRG, because up until now, he has been the best thing about this team, consistently year in and year out.
However, we may turn out to be the Ravens with Fitz being our Trent Dilfer. If we do, he misses out.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
I think this thing with Andre is bigger than people think. Is he unhappy with the losing, of course he is. What competitor wouldn't be. Will he get traded, doubt it but he is on the books next year for like 16 million so is it better to try and get something now for him and take the hit or risk him becoming a cap casualty next year and get nothing in return?
Also, maybe someone who knows the cap better than I, could the Texans offer a buy out, say of the 12 million owed to Johnson this year, they ask for 6 million back from him? So they take a hit but get some back from Johnson plus the 3 million+ they save on the year. OR if they trade him, couldn't the Texans ask for money as well as draft picks to help with the cap hit?
Also think about this, there is a player on this team that is coming up on the end of his rookie contract. Do you think this may impact the possibility of JJ Watt not resigning with the Texans in the future? If you are Watt, do you look at what has happened to Andre Johnson's career here in Houston and think, "I don't want just 2 playoff appearances in my career. I want to play for a contender" Let's face it, Texans are in rebuild mode and it maybe 2-4 years before this thing get truly turned around. If you are Watt, do you want to spend the prime years of your career rebuilding, hoping the Texans build a championship contender? I don't see Watt going for a complete cash grab, however this next contract sets him up for life so would he want it to be with a winner or a team rebuilding?
again, something to think about.
Also, maybe someone who knows the cap better than I, could the Texans offer a buy out, say of the 12 million owed to Johnson this year, they ask for 6 million back from him? So they take a hit but get some back from Johnson plus the 3 million+ they save on the year. OR if they trade him, couldn't the Texans ask for money as well as draft picks to help with the cap hit?
Also think about this, there is a player on this team that is coming up on the end of his rookie contract. Do you think this may impact the possibility of JJ Watt not resigning with the Texans in the future? If you are Watt, do you look at what has happened to Andre Johnson's career here in Houston and think, "I don't want just 2 playoff appearances in my career. I want to play for a contender" Let's face it, Texans are in rebuild mode and it maybe 2-4 years before this thing get truly turned around. If you are Watt, do you want to spend the prime years of your career rebuilding, hoping the Texans build a championship contender? I don't see Watt going for a complete cash grab, however this next contract sets him up for life so would he want it to be with a winner or a team rebuilding?
again, something to think about.
How about we do AJ to NE for Mallett ? OK, but then I have no idea what they can do about AJs contract ? Bottom line for me is I'm with O'Brien and the Texans, AJ's interest are of much less concern to me.
The Texans future is JJ & Clowney & the other young talents on the team, and if AJ doesn't want to be part of that, OK fine.
The Texans future is JJ & Clowney & the other young talents on the team, and if AJ doesn't want to be part of that, OK fine.
kingtexan
All Pro
Have said before that unless the Texans get their collective **** together, JJ Watt will end his career as a Green Bay Packer. Don't want that to happen, but very possible.
I totally understand why Andre Johnson is frustrated. Last year was the worst kind of 2-14. The Texans were not that kind of bad in terms of talent nor play, but managed to lose 14 straight which is nearly impossible in the NFL. The previous 2-14 TExans were near the very bottom of the league in both offense and defense and was legitimately one of worse handful of teams in NFL history.
That said, if a player wants control over where he plays, that player should not go for the max money and security of guaranteed money., while he has not been a jerk about it, Andre Johnson has made sure he has gotten his money from the Texans. Simply, do not sign a new contract until the last one expires.
And no andre Johnson does not deserve to play on a winner. He was paid to the level of his performance and his value to the team. since he made the decision to sign a long term contract, Johnson took the risk on the goodness (or lack of goodness) of the Texans organization. Our center has been a top 5 player at his position for a few years now, so does he deserve to get traded to Broncos.
Since the much off-season is supposed to be voluntary so I really don't care if he shows up or why he does not show up. If he is not here in August, I will truly start caring and worrying.
That said, if a player wants control over where he plays, that player should not go for the max money and security of guaranteed money., while he has not been a jerk about it, Andre Johnson has made sure he has gotten his money from the Texans. Simply, do not sign a new contract until the last one expires.
And no andre Johnson does not deserve to play on a winner. He was paid to the level of his performance and his value to the team. since he made the decision to sign a long term contract, Johnson took the risk on the goodness (or lack of goodness) of the Texans organization. Our center has been a top 5 player at his position for a few years now, so does he deserve to get traded to Broncos.
Since the much off-season is supposed to be voluntary so I really don't care if he shows up or why he does not show up. If he is not here in August, I will truly start caring and worrying.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Just because all 21 pages seem to mention the word ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZMvWXxe30#t=3m33s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZMvWXxe30#t=3m33s
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