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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

& why is that? Because Gruden said a good word about Case two years ago? We're talking about Jon Gruden. He's infatuated with young QBs, as if he's living vicariously through them. He's got at least 3 other "favorite" QBs since he fell in love with Case & he'll fall in love with three more before the draft.

& if Gruden is our next HC, I'll bet you dollars to donuts he will take whoever the media trumps up as the best of the class.
Because Keenum is on this team and McNair seems pretty high on him.

The 2nd bolded is a good reason not to hire Gruden, IMO. I want a HC that knows more about football players than media talking heads.

And I still feel like he's a front runner, along with Phillips for the HC job. That makes me sick to my stomach.:mad:
 
Luck finished out last year (16 games) with 23 TDs 18 INTs with 4300 yds passing with a completion rate of 54% and a QBR of 76.4.

Keenum after ~6 1/2games has 9 TDs 4 INTs with 1600 yds passing with a completion rate of 54% and a QBR of 83.7.

Stupid Colts organization should have traded Luck and drafted 2 more QBs this year.



Could you not objectively see a difference between Luck's performance last year and Case this year?
 
Could you not objectively see a difference between Luck's performance last year and Case this year?

Luck's numbers this year are very much like last year with significantly less total yds........despite the fact that he has had decent supporting personnel, both on offense and defense which is responsible for the improved W/L.
 
Luck's numbers this year are very much like last year with significantly less total yds........despite the fact that he has had decent supporting personnel, both on offense and defense which is responsible for the improved W/L.

**** like this is why you actually have to watch games, and not just judge by stats/roster.

Take your Keenum glasses off.
 
Luck's numbers this year are very much like last year with significantly less total yds........despite the fact that he has had decent supporting personnel, both on offense and defense which is responsible for the improved W/L.

Seems you avoided the question. Are you a UofH alum?
 
Luck makes the plays that win games. He's smart before the snap, knows exactly what he wants to do. Case? Not so much, he is reactive and relies more on his physical traits to take over and doesnt make the crunch time plays.

wish I had the wonderlich results for both guys, not that it matters I just know it could be a metric to start to make comparisons. I mean its fair isnt it? Since the proponents for Keenum have been bringing up HOF'ers and their first handful of games and 'stats' ... why not just compare Keenum to one of his contemporaries?
 
Schaub is done in Houston. There's no way in hell McNair is going to put Schaub out there in front of the fans that boo'd his return, boo'd his injury, and set his jersey on fire. He's going to be RELEASED, McNair has had enough of him.

Just thought I'd do my good deed for the day. :)

Schaub will be given his outright release, for the same reason David Carr was given his outright release.

$$$$$$$
 
We all sometimes pick lower deck players that catch our eye for some reason or another, and want them to rise to the top. It's human nature. Most of the time those undrafted players dont work out, but once in a while you find a diamond in the coal dust.

No one knows if Case Keenum will work out just yet, but that sure as hell doesn't keep me from rooting for the guy.


Fair post.

In fairness to Keenum, I believe he's been put into a situation where his "learning" and "acclimating" to the real world of game day reality has been clouded by all the shenanigans both Kubiak and Schaub put him through. I say Kubiak and Schaub because they themselves instigated the pulling of Case in both games. Schaub simply sulked and pouted on the sideline and Kubes saw that and felt sorry for the Scahub and voila....


In addition, how in the hell can any NFL hopeful QB learn anything from either Kubiak or Schaub? Really....how can they learn in a defunct and kindergarten offensive system? How can they even implement their physical attributes when the play-calling and hindrances on the actual field have been limited as much as Kubes limited Keenums' play.

In all honesty...I don't think any coach on the team actually spent any significant time with Case "during" practice, let alone trying to "coach" only from the blackboard.
 
Luck finished out last year (16 games) with 23 TDs 18 INTs with 4300 yds passing with a completion rate of 54% and a QBR of 76.4.

Keenum after ~6 1/2games has 9 TDs 4 INTs with 1600 yds passing with a completion rate of 54% and a QBR of 83.7.

Stupid Colts organization should have traded Luck and drafted 2 more QBs this year.

Doc, what's Luck's W-L record as a starter, and what's Keenum's?

Even if you make the argument that Luck had a talented team around him (I don't buy that, I think the Colts are a crap-to-mediocre team with a future great at QB) there is no excuse for Keenum losing to teams like Jacksonville that are talentwise inferior to the Texans.

Also, (not directed at you, Doc) but the reason Schaub got put in for Keenum wasn't cause Schaub was being a sulky baby, it was because Keenum was looking awful out there.
 
Schaub is done in Houston. There's no way in hell McNair is going to put Schaub out there in front of the fans that boo'd his return, boo'd his injury, and set his jersey on fire. He's going to be traded, McNair has had enough of him.

McNair isn't going to trade Schaub. It doesn't make sense. No one would pick him up with his contract (his contract made sense for the first two years, year three, it's not the same value without an AFC appearance).

It also doesn't make sense McNair would do anything because the fans boo, or don't boo. His team has got to win games. The rest of that stuff will work itself out. McNair gets that.

But you're correct, Schaub is done in Houston. He'll be released, straight up.
 
Could you not objectively see a difference between Luck's performance last year and Case this year?

I think it's more than just watching. Case has had his moments as well & the stats bear out that he has the ability.

However, what the stats don't show, & what takes a little more than watching, is understanding the situation. More times than not, when the Colts needed a score, Luck responded & helped his team get that score.

When we needed a score, Case answered with a 20 yard sack, a lost fumble, or a 3 & out.

In his defense, Andrew Luck wasn't asked to score 30 points a week. At the same time, we're losing by 7 points or less.

Can Case be a starter in the NFL...... yes sure he can. Can he win a Super Bowl? Who knows?

But the bottom line is it doesn't make sense to pass on a potential franchise QB, because you already have a potential franchise QB. It's time to stack the deck & unfortunately that means stacking it against Case.

You can convince yourself that Kubiak had some unnatural man love for Schaub & just had to see him one more time on the field. But the more reasonable conclusion is that your UDFA 3rd string QB wasn't catching on. You bench him. When asked, you don't commit to who the starting QB will be "for the rest of the season." You start the kid again. If he still doesn't perform, you bench him again, you don't commit to who the starting QB is "the rest of the season" you start the kid again & see how he does.

You're (not you in particular) fooling yourself if you think Case has earned a starting job in the NFL. He's lucky to be starting over Tj, who may not be as flashy, but pulled out a game or two when it mattered.
 
I think it's more than just watching. Case has had his moments as well & the stats bear out that he has the ability.

However, what the stats don't show, & what takes a little more than watching, is understanding the situation. More times than not, when the Colts needed a score, Luck responded & helped his team get that score.

When we needed a score, Case answered with a 20 yard sack, a lost fumble, or a 3 & out.

In his defense, Andrew Luck wasn't asked to score 30 points a week. At the same time, we're losing by 7 points or less.

Can Case be a starter in the NFL...... yes sure he can. Can he win a Super Bowl? Who knows?

But the bottom line is it doesn't make sense to pass on a potential franchise QB, because you already have a potential franchise QB. It's time to stack the deck & unfortunately that means stacking it against Case.

You can convince yourself that Kubiak had some unnatural man love for Schaub & just had to see him one more time on the field. But the more reasonable conclusion is that your UDFA 3rd string QB wasn't catching on. You bench him. When asked, you don't commit to who the starting QB will be "for the rest of the season." You start the kid again. If he still doesn't perform, you bench him again, you don't commit to who the starting QB is "the rest of the season" you start the kid again & see how he does.

You're (not you in particular) fooling yourself if you think Case has earned a starting job in the NFL. He's lucky to be starting over Tj, who may not be as flashy, but pulled out a game or two when it mattered.

.......who had a functional OL, RB, and D........and was not expected to score but a handful of points. In his 6 games, he only scored a total of ONE TD in the 3 games the Texans won. In that 6 game span, he logged in 3 TDs and 3 INTS, took 15 sacks, fumbled 5 and lost 3 of those..........when it mattered.
 
.......who had a functional OL, RB, and D........and was not expected to score but a handful of points. In his 6 games, he only scored a total of ONE TD in the 3 games the Texans won. In that 6 game span, he logged in 3 TDs and 3 INTS, took 15 sacks, fumbled 5 and lost 3 of those..........when it mattered.

Every member of the team either help the team win (Andre, JJ), are neutral & neither help or hurt (Brooks Reed, Greg Jones), or hurt the team's chances of winning (Wade Smith, Brice McCain).

Where do you think Case fall?
 
Every member of the team either help the team win (Andre, JJ), are neutral & neither help or hurt (Brooks Reed, Greg Jones), or hurt the team's chances of winning (Wade Smith, Brice McCain).

Where do you think Case fall?

That's easy. There have been games where he's helped the team win, but they didn't win. The bashers just harp on the record without recognizing that. When you pass for 3 TDs and 0 INT, you're a part of the solution. There are other times when he's been a part of the problems. He's done nothing to move the ball up and down the field. The Keenum Fan Club often fails to acknowledge this. Then there are times when he's been neutral. Honestly, it's all part of a young QB growing and learning on a crappy team from a HC that has a quick hook.

I've maintained from the beginning that I want Keenum to get the rest of the season to evaluate. I feel like that has been compromised somewhat by Kubiak, but that's life in the bigs. Regardless what the results of that evaluation were, I wanted a draft pick QB to compete for the starting job. The caveat for me is I actually want a REAL competition. If the Texans take a QB in the first round, it won't be an honest competition, and I hate that. Let the best player play.

That said, if there is a guy at the top of the draft that the Texans feel they can't pass up, then pull the trigger. At this point, I don't buy into Bridgewater. Maybe they do. *shrug*
 
Every member of the team either help the team win (Andre, JJ), are neutral & neither help or hurt (Brooks Reed, Greg Jones), or hurt the team's chances of winning (Wade Smith, Brice McCain).

Where do you think Case fall?

I would have to answer the question in a very similar fashion as Eriadoc.
 
.......who had a functional OL, RB, and D........and was not expected to score but a handful of points. In his 6 games, he only scored a total of ONE TD in the 3 games the Texans won. In that 6 game span, he logged in 3 TDs and 3 INTS, took 15 sacks, fumbled 5 and lost 3 of those..........when it mattered.


Case is by no means close to Luck and only on a houston based board and a uofh qb would this be called into question
 
the more i think about it and the more i try to analyze keenum, the more i lean towards giving him the job next season. mostly because keenum's weaknesses are areas that can be worked during the offseason and preseason. he's very accurate, throws a great deep ball, moves well in the pocket and outside, can throw on the run, and is quite a playmaker. however the holes in his game are the easier parts. timing, rhythm, the short/intermediate reads, blitz recognition and hot reads ... basically having a full understanding of the entire playbook. these things can be fixed, and shouldnt be hard to fix for a guy that's shown to put in the extra work.

i keep going back to the lack of starter's training camp. during the week we're trying to get that week's set of plays put together and get case comfortable. that doesnt allow him enough time to work on the whole book and get direct feedback with his coaches receivers. the offseason is where you go back to the fundamentals and work these areas, and i want to see what keenum can do as the offseason starter.
 
the more i think about it and the more i try to analyze keenum, the more i lean towards giving him the job next season. mostly because keenum's weaknesses are areas that can be worked during the offseason and preseason. he's very accurate, throws a great deep ball, moves well in the pocket and outside, can throw on the run, and is quite a playmaker. however the holes in his game are the easier parts. timing, rhythm, the short/intermediate reads, blitz recognition and hot reads ... basically having a full understanding of the entire playbook. these things can be fixed, and shouldnt be hard to fix for a guy that's shown to put in the extra work.

i keep going back to the lack of starter's training camp. during the week we're trying to get that week's set of plays put together and get case comfortable. that doesnt allow him enough time to work on the whole book and get direct feedback with his coaches receivers. the offseason is where you go back to the fundamentals and work these areas, and i want to see what keenum can do as the offseason starter.


He's very accurate? Well that's laughable. A play maker? Not so much after the first couple of games. I wonder sometimes if the same games are being watched


Even if your rose color glasses are still on for Case you don't give him the job, he would have to earn it
 
the more i think about it and the more i try to analyze keenum, the more i lean towards giving him the job next season. mostly because keenum's weaknesses are areas that can be worked during the offseason and preseason. he's very accurate, throws a great deep ball, moves well in the pocket and outside, can throw on the run, and is quite a playmaker. however the holes in his game are the easier parts. timing, rhythm, the short/intermediate reads, blitz recognition and hot reads ... basically having a full understanding of the entire playbook. these things can be fixed, and shouldnt be hard to fix for a guy that's shown to put in the extra work.

i keep going back to the lack of starter's training camp. during the week we're trying to get that week's set of plays put together and get case comfortable. that doesnt allow him enough time to work on the whole book and get direct feedback with his coaches receivers. the offseason is where you go back to the fundamentals and work these areas, and i want to see what keenum can do as the offseason starter.

I hear what you're saying, however... he looks perfectly fine in the first half unless we're playing the Jaguars. Then in the second half, when the game is on the line, he looks totally inept. I'd have loved to have seen Kubiak put Schaub in the game to start the drives, but once we got to the red zone, put Case in the game. Unorthodoxed, sure. But so is rotating your RT for 2 seasons.
 
He's very accurate? Well that's laughable. A play maker? Not so much after the first couple of games. I wonder sometimes if the same games are being watched


Even if your rose color glasses are still on for Case you don't give him the job, he would have to earn it

The Texans ranked 21st in pass pro after week 6.
They ranked 27th after week 13.
Keenum attempted longer passes than Schaub.
All these things (and more) have a direct relationship with a QB's completion rate.
Other factors include drops by receivers, miscommunication, etc.
 
The Texans ranked 21st in pass pro after week 6.
They ranked 27th after week 13.
Keenum attempted longer passes than Schaub.
All these things (and more) have a direct relationship with a QB's completion rate.
Other factors include drops by receivers, miscommunication, etc.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/

Take a look at this it shows case ranked # 3 with comp % on attempts over20 yards at 53.3% 12/30

He is 119/219 overall or 107/189 for 56% on attempts 19 and under that's not very accurate if you took away his deep pass attempts he would rank 3rd from the bottom instead of 2nd well I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

Can the qb impact the oline's rating?
 
The Texans ranked 21st in pass pro after week 6.
They ranked 27th after week 13.
Keenum attempted longer passes than Schaub.
All these things (and more) have a direct relationship with a QB's completion rate.
Other factors include drops by receivers, miscommunication, etc.

Shows what we already know about Keenum: He hasn't gotten rid of the ball quickly enough / hit hot routes against the blitz.

(I suspect this gets worse without Kubiak who has spent countless hours working with Keenum on the details)


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/

Take a look at this it shows case ranked # 3 with comp % on attempts over20 yards at 53.3% 12/30

He is 119/219 overall or 107/189 for 56% on attempts 19 and under that's not very accurate if you took away his deep pass attempts he would rank 3rd from the bottom instead of 2nd well I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

This is the one stat that gives me some hope that Keenum can play the position at a high level in the NFL .....

He has to improve his percentage on the shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker when blitzed.
 
Shows what we already know about Keenum: He hasn't gotten rid of the ball quickly enough / hit hot routes against the blitz.

(I suspect this gets worse without Kubiak who has spent countless hours working with Keenum on the details)




This is the one stat that gives me some hope that Keenum can play the position at a high level in the NFL .....

He has to improve his percentage on the shorter routes and get rid of the ball quicker when blitzed.


I can't find the stats broken down by game but if we could I'd guess the first to games long ball attempts were hit at a crazy high % but just like his overall performance they have fallen to reality since
 
Another poster mentioned the Wonderlic test scores.
It has been discussed nationally many times over.
The score is not a good indicator of QB play.
A simple case is Gabbert scoring 42 and Dan Marino 15.

A more intensive list can be found here:

http://basketfootball.com/wonderlic-scores-for-every-nfl-teams-starting-qb/

Scroll down to watch the video in which the subject was brought up.

Dan Marino, 15

Donovan McNabb, 15

Jim Kelly, 15

Terry Bradshaw, 15 (the lowest score of any SB winning QB) (in contrast to Marino, Bradshaw's non-football IQ should be in the mid 60s):kitten:
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/

Take a look at this it shows case ranked # 3 with comp % on attempts over20 yards at 53.3% 12/30

He is 119/219 overall or 107/189 for 56% on attempts 19 and under that's not very accurate if you took away his deep pass attempts he would rank 3rd from the bottom instead of 2nd well I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

Can the qb impact the oline's rating?
Normally, I would have time to break down each of his passes, including how much time it was after the ball was snapped, but I just got busy for a month now with a new job that requires long hours.

One thing you can tell for sure is that if you read Greg Bedard's weekly column for SI, titled Pressure Point, you would see the breakdown on QB pressure.

Keenum faced more pressure than the opposing QB every single game he played in.
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/

Take a look at this it shows case ranked # 3 with comp % on attempts over20 yards at 53.3% 12/30

He is 119/219 overall or 107/189 for 56% on attempts 19 and under that's not very accurate if you took away his deep pass attempts he would rank 3rd from the bottom instead of 2nd well I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

Can the qb impact the oline's rating?
QB can certainly impact the O-line rating. I always put everything that takes longer than 3 secs on the QB; it'a just a cut-off numbers that most analysts use.
 
Normally, I would have time to break down each of his passes, including how much time it was after the ball was snapped, but I just got busy for a month now with a new job that requires long hours.

One thing you can tell for sure is that if you read Greg Bedard's weekly column for SI, titled Pressure Point, you would see the breakdown on QB pressure.

Keenum faced more pressure than the opposing QB every single game he played in.


Why does Case face so much pressure? Because he has a very hard time handling it


So what say you is Case very accurate? 56% on attempts of 19 yards and under is that very accurate?
 
QB can certainly impact the O-line rating. I always put everything that takes longer than 3 secs on the QB; it'a just a cut-off numbers that most analysts use.


manning gets the ball out faster than 3 seconds all the time, I bet that helps his line's stats
 
.......who had a functional OL, RB, and D........and was not expected to score but a handful of points. In his 6 games, he only scored a total of ONE TD in the 3 games the Texans won. In that 6 game span, he logged in 3 TDs and 3 INTS, took 15 sacks, fumbled 5 and lost 3 of those..........when it mattered.

So we're gonna forget about the 80yd drive with 0 timeouts to beat cincy at cincy to win the division right? Take andre away from case and then look at his numbers. Not only that,let's re-add jones and walters. I'm figuring his so called numbers would be terrible.We've seen schaub suck without aj dictating coverage.
 
Why does Case face so much pressure? Because he has a very hard time handling it


So what say you is Case very accurate? 56% on attempts of 19 yards and under is that very accurate?

Does he struggle on shorter routes because of his height not being able to see and throw the ball over the head of opponents on shorter flatter passes. Maybe on the deep routes he can throw with a higher trajectory?
 
So we're gonna forget about the 80yd drive with 0 timeouts to beat cincy at cincy to win the division right? Take andre away from case and then look at his numbers. Not only that,let's re-add jones and walters. I'm figuring his so called numbers would be terrible.We've seen schaub suck without aj dictating coverage.

QB ratings without AJ:

2010 - 98.6, 96.8, 129.7 - 2 W, 1 L
2011 - 100.9, 72, 83.2, 147.7, 88.9, 56.3, 154.9 - 4 W, 2 L

Looks like 2 games to me and we won 1 of those (the worst game).
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/

Take a look at this it shows case ranked # 3 with comp % on attempts over20 yards at 53.3% 12/30

He is 119/219 overall or 107/189 for 56% on attempts 19 and under that's not very accurate if you took away his deep pass attempts he would rank 3rd from the bottom instead of 2nd well I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

Can the qb impact the oline's rating?

Qbs make everything better. Wr,ol,rbs,defense,everyone. Drew Brees doesn't have a 1st rd drafted wr except meecham,the spot player. Moreno was on his way out the nfl before manning. Speaking of which, he's playing with his 3rd string center and backup tackles. That's why he's the most important player in football.

I missed the discussion earlier when people were talking colts and texans talent. The texans have just as much if not more talent than the colts. The titans have more talent than the colts also. The difference is they have luck and the other 2 have backups. Thing is,Luck has been a little above avg,but he understands the moments in the game. You put luck on the titans or texans and both teams are winning the division.
 
QB ratings without AJ:

2010 - 98.6, 96.8, 129.7 - 2 W, 1 L
2011 - 100.9, 72, 83.2, 147.7, 88.9, 56.3, 154.9 - 4 W, 2 L

Looks like 2 games to me and we won 1 of those (the worst game).

AJ production turned into a huge increase to foster. When aj goes down,foster's production spikes in both run game and pass game. Not a bad strategy because back then, arian was 10-11 ypc which tells us how far he's fallen off. Now he's like 6 or 7. Those are huge numbers.
 
AJ production turned into a huge increase to foster. When aj goes down,foster's production spikes in both run game and pass game. Not a bad strategy because back then, arian was 10-11 ypc which tells us how far he's fallen off. Now he's like 6 or 7. Those are huge numbers.

Which does nothing to correct your obviously erroneous assertion that Schaub sucked without AJ. Of course the QB and game plan adjust without a player like AJ. Schaub adjusted well, not poorly.
 
Some poster was asking about target distribution by the QBs, so I went back to take a look.
I don't see any noticeable difference.
It varies from game to game.
Andre was targeted 21 times last game in 58 pass attempts by the QB.
He was targeted 18 times in 45 attempts in the first game against the Chargers.

With OD and Foster out, the TEs and RBs saw slightly fewer targets.
I think that's a combination of Schaub's tendency to check down a little more often than Keenum and the rest of the TE and RB group isn't as efficient as OD and Foster.

And we know that Hopkins was in Kubiak's dog house for brief periods of time so his number of targets took a bit of a hit.
 
Sorry if I responded late, but I felt this needed a response, since so many seem to be in either one camp or the other regarding Keenum (and Schaub, too for that matter, although Schaub’s supporters have really dwindled). I’m not pro-Keenum, neither am I anti-Keenum.

That's why I got so tired of people in here blathering about how Kubiak wasn't letting "case be case" or claiming that Kubiak was trying to turn Case into Schaub..couldn't have been further from the truth imo. What Kubiak was trying to do when he had Case under center & running other "schaub-like" plays was trying to incorporate some "normal" aspects of his offense that could help offset some of the things defenses were doing to Case. He knew you couldn't sustain an NFL offense doing only the things Keenum feels most comfortable. It probably wasn't enough TBH...At some point you've got to settle into something much more comprehensive & viable...

And that’s been one of the main points of my argument is how viable and/or vital Kubiak’s offense is in 2013. I say not much…and even after Keenum’s first game, I was a little disconcerted that we only saw him under center at the goal line. I wanted to see a healthy mix, e.g. Brees and Newton to confuse the defense; but since I believe there is a fundamental problem with Kubiak’s offense, it didn’t matter anyway. I think the proof in Kubiak’s nonviable offense is the aforementioned play calling that did not take into account the blitz. No 3 or 5 step drops with hot reads. It was the same sh!t every time, whether it was Keenum or Schaub under center. Then people question Keenum’s hesitancy on making some throws, when anyone would hesitate to throw the ball into windows too tight because defenders are sitting on routes and your O-line is Swiss cheese.

Whether or not Keenum and Kubiak settled on some sort of happy medium to win ballgames, we’ll never know. Or maybe we will if Keenum ever gets to play under a different HC (which I hope isn’t a “QB guru”).

Last night showed this perfectly. The offense looked stagnant with Keenum most of the night, but Schaub comes in & we're moving the ball up & down the field like it's nothing. But b/c all people heard was Mayock saying "uptempo" they automatically think "oh why doesn't he do that with keenum, he did it so well at UH" Well, if keenum wasn't good at running the plays in the uptempo package, then it doesn't matter if it's uptempo or not..

One thing we have to factor in here is Schaub’s experience, and also during the workweek, Schaub had been taking the same snaps using the same game plan (in the pistol) as Keenum had been during the week. That gave Schaub the edge coming off the bench. Contrary to popular belief, Schaub might be slightly aging, and lost in the confidence department, but it’s not like he’s a straight up scrub. At the end of the game it was all hokus pokus, anyway. Schaub didn’t win either game he came in a relieved Keenum. The O-line still sucked, both QBs had the same amount of attempts, and they did the same damage. It’s the offense. Every defense knows that thing is a cow and you’re not going to convince them it’s a leopard.

Good qbs don't let you corner them into 1 tendency or another & it doesn't matter what defenses are trying to do to you....That's one thing that you see early on with good qbs. It might give the defense a better chance to win by taking away a big tendency that that qb has, but ultimately, that qb can make you pay another way....that isn't the case with Schaub...and/or now Keenum.

You’re right, 100% - Good QBs burn you while you’re trying to burn them. Yet, again, we’re back to the chicken or the egg question, when I have no doubt the Schaub could have thrived even more under a system that gave him more latitude as a field general. I’m not saying that he would have set the NFL on fire, but he’s a pretty smart guy, very able to run Kubiak’s cerebral brand of offense; therefore equally capable of running some other brand. I also believe the same thing with Keenum. I knew when he came out, if anything, Keenum had/has a mind for the game. There were always question marks about his physical tools, but not about his football smarts. Lo and behold Keenum answered some questions about his physical tools, both good and bad – surprising a few people along the way – but all of a sudden are we expected to believe he just got stupid and can’t read a defense for sh!t? Maybe. But also, you know as well as I do that “good QBs” are not created overnight, either. I mean, Cam Newton was found out early on. RGIII has been found out. Does that mean they are crap? I doubt it, but because of draft status they will get their chance while someone like Case Keenum or Billy Voleck might not.

Having said all that, if I had sight into the future, I’d wish to see Keenum as a fry cook for the rest of his life it meant us having a franchise QB in the near future. The truth is, the Texans can’t afford very much time working on the Keenum experiment. We want a turnaround NOW! So…well, I guess it’s all moot now that Kubiak has hit the road. A lot of things are about to change. I hope it’s for the best, with the right people, even if it means that every player on this team has to peace the f'ck out.
 
Keenum faced more pressure than the opposing QB every single game he played in.

Which is part of the problem. With other QBs, DC have to figure out how to upset the QB. They have to mix it up a little.

Case, not so much. It's the same thing, week after week.
 
Which is part of the problem. With other QBs, DC have to figure out how to upset the QB. They have to mix it up a little.

Case, not so much. It's the same thing, week after week.

which IMO has to be split between case and the offensive line and the coaches. teams arent getting overly creative when blitzing case, they're sending pressure right up the middle. this is a line issue. myers has to be the pivot for these central blitzes but he's failing spectacularly by blocking empty space or even worse pulling the line away from the extra rusher. myers looks like a rookie out there, competent in his job but unable to support others - in this case organizing the blocking assignments for a new quarterback.

on keenum's end he has to see that and know where his outlets are, and see the same quick reads as his receivers/tightends, something he's not doing. teams dont blitz schaub in this manner because that's his strength, he knows every play in the book and puts the ball on a spot - he's one of the best at exploiting a blitz. this goes back to the offseason for me though, case doesnt have the entire playbook and he doesnt have the ability to work with each receiver. he's too busy trying to get what he's supposed to do each week down and memorize the current gameplan, and doesnt have the opportunity to work on the fundamentals and cohesion behind each design. i may be overestimating what keenum could do with that time, but i feel that he could very well turn into a very good quarterback with the practice time.

finally, the coaches HAVE to see what the rest of the world sees and make these adjustments. teams are sending 6+ at keenum the entire second half, how is it so impossible to create plays to take advantage of this? instead of a 5 second developing screen, how about a quick leak to dennis johnson with wade smith leading? a 3-step slant->fade double move to andre? stay in a heavier package to allow run options if teams want to pass rush, an 8 yard run is better than a quick out route.

it IS the same thing week after week, and someone needs to do something about it. case is very much at fault for these failings, but he's hardly the only one or even the most at fault.
 
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which IMO has to be split between case and the offensive line and the coaches. teams arent getting overly creative when blitzing case, they're sending pressure right up the middle. this is a line issue. myers has to be the pivot for these central blitzes but he's failing spectacularly by blocking empty space or even worse pulling the line away from the extra rusher. myers looks like a rookie out there, competent in his job but unable to support others - in this case organizing the blocking assignments for a new quarterback.

I have never been impressed with Myers. I know he's made the Pro Bowl, and some people rave about his play, but I am not a fan. The guy is very good at getting to the second level and putting the blocks on linebackers, but he sucks at the FIRST level. He struggles with any nose tackle that outweighs him, it seems like, which is most of them. If he can pass off the NT and get to the second level, then he does alright, but if he has to block him, it's pressure up the middle. And pressure up the middle is the worst, because it gives the QB nowhere to go.

That's not anything new for Case, though. He just has to do a better job of recognizing the looks and getting his guys in position to beat the blitz. Young guys usually have problems doing that.
 
I agree with the Myers stuff. Never really liked him, or the finesse offensive line scheme. Unless Rick pulls a ZBS head coach out of a magic hat, we will likely be changing our running game to something more traditional. That means we will likely keep Myers on the books through next year and then let him go in 2015.
 
I agree with the Myers stuff. Never really liked him, or the finesse offensive line scheme. Unless Rick pulls a ZBS head coach out of a magic hat, we will likely be changing our running game to something more traditional. That means we will likely keep Myers on the books through next year and then let him go in 2015.

A couple of comment on this.

First, McNair was pretty adamant about the fact he didn't view this as rebuilding, and was expecting some pretty quick results from the new HC. That doesn't sound like a recipe to overhaul the O-line scheme you've been using for the past eight seasons. This is particularly true considering...

Second, the ZBS isn't some proprietary Shanahan/Kubiak system that is so rare and unique in the NFL that we couldn't possibly find another coach (be it HC or OC) who would be able to make the most of what we've got right now. As of the beginning of the 2012 season (most recent comprehensive info I could find), at least a dozen NFL teams were using the ZBS as their primary blocking scheme, with several other teams utilizing it as a component of their offense.

With everybody under a win-now directive (or so it would appear), I think it's very possible that the ZBS will remain a significant part of the Post-Kubiak Texans offense.
 
That's not anything new for Case, though. He just has to do a better job of recognizing the looks and getting his guys in position to beat the blitz. Young guys usually have problems doing that.

Agreed & as mentioned, these aren't "cleverly" designed blitzes. DCs haven't had to go to that level yet to beat Case Keenum.

All QBs struggle with pressure. The guy we need has to beat that pressure more often than not. & if he can't, if he's going to be one of those guys that will beat the blitz once in a while, it better be something big..... Like a 50 yard scramble or a 60 yard TD pass. Something that makes defenses think twice about what they are doing.
 
First, McNair was pretty adamant about the fact he didn't view this as rebuilding, and was expecting some pretty quick results from the new HC. That doesn't sound like a recipe to overhaul the O-line scheme you've been using for the past eight seasons.

To add to your point, it is actually 10 seasons. Capers went to ZBS after the 2003 season. Remember the discussions of the Texans not doing it correctly because they didn't like the backside cut block? So the Texans maintained it through the last HC change.
 
Seahawks are a zone blocking team and I don't seen anyone complaing. Russell wllson was the 3rd most pressured qb playing without his center and tackles. In fact,he played with a patchwork line this year an he's not making the same mistakes as case.
 
Seahawks are a zone blocking team and I don't seen anyone complaing. Russell wllson was the 3rd most pressured qb playing without his center and tackles. In fact,he played with a patchwork line this year an he's not making the same mistakes as case.

Wilson already has a year playing.
Why don't you compare his first seven starts against Keenum's?

With the benefit of a stout defense, a running game, and a ST that doesn't stink like the Texans, Wilson managed to lead the Hawks to many fewer offensive scores in those seven games than Keenum did in less than six and a half games.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Luck's first seven starts.
Last year, I had a post in which I noted that in the first five games alone, Luck had ten near-INTs, at least 5 of them were balls that he threw right into the defenders' arms and they simply dropped the ball. It was like the defenders were his receivers; that was how bad those throws were.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Geno Smith, whom you seem to spend the effort defending.
 
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