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All Encompassing Case Keenum Thread

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
Wilson already has a year playing.
Why don't you compare his first seven starts against Keenum's?

With the benefit of a stout defense, a running game, and a ST that doesn't stink like the Texans, Wilson managed to lead the Hawks to many fewer offensive scores in those seven games than Keenum did in less than six and a half games.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Luck's first seven starts.
Last year, I had a post in which I noted that in the first five games alone, Luck had ten near-INTs, at least 5 of them were balls that he threw right into the defenders' arms and they simply dropped the ball. It was like the defenders were his receivers; that was how bad those throws were.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Geno Smith, whom you seem to spend the effort defending.

Wilson's first 7


4-3 104/175 59.4% 8 td 7 ints 3 fumbles in 16 games

Luck

4-3 159/288 55% 8 td 8 ints 3 rushing tds 9 fumbles in 16 games. 7 game winning drives for the season fwiw


Keenum

0 wins 119/219 54% 9tds 4 ints 5 fumbles



Anyone not in houston picks luck or Wilson over their first 7, season or next season
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Wilson's first 7


4-3 104/175 59.4% 8 td 7 ints 3 fumbles in 16 games

Luck

4-3 159/288 55% 8 td 8 ints 3 rushing tds 9 fumbles in 16 games. 7 game winning drives for the season fwiw


Keenum

0 wins 119/219 54% 9tds 4 ints 5 fumbles



Anyone not in houston picks luck or Wilson over their first 7, season or next season
Thanks for the laugh.
 
What laugh is that ? 8-6 vs 0-7?
Troy Aikman was 0-7 and Tim Tebow was 5-2.

This is not a great argument.

You don't like Case. We get it. But there's nothing to argue about. He's starting the next 3 games. It's done. He'll either improve or he won't. He'll make a case for a later round QB instead of 1st round or he won't.

Now he has to be Andrew Luck or he sucks?

Why do people care so much that people are rooting for the kid and want to see him do well? It's strange. If we invested a draft pick on him we'd be saying, "the jury is still out."

Because he's a local UFA and he has actual fans, his numbers are judged MORE harshly and anyone who likes him is an idiot. It's odd.
 

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
Troy Aikman was 0-7 and Tim Tebow was 5-2.

This is not a great argument.

You don't like Case. We get it. But there's nothing to argue about. He's starting the next 3 games. It's done. He'll either improve or he won't. He'll make a case for a later round QB instead of 1st round or he won't.

Now he has to be Andrew Luck or he sucks?

Why do people care so much that people are rooting for the kid and want to see him do well? It's strange. If we invested a draft pick on him we'd be saying, "the jury is still out."

Because he's a local UFA and he has actual fans, his numbers are judged MORE harshly and anyone who likes him is an idiot. It's odd.

I wasn't the one who brought up luck. He doesn't have to be luck or suck but he does have to win a game. Tell me more about the one offs. How many QBs start off 0-7 and don't turn it around. It's one thing to like a player and it's something totally different to be blind or make every excuse for said player
 

CharloTex

Rookie
which IMO has to be split between case and the offensive line and the coaches. teams arent getting overly creative when blitzing case, they're sending pressure right up the middle. this is a line issue. myers has to be the pivot for these central blitzes but he's failing spectacularly by blocking empty space or even worse pulling the line away from the extra rusher. myers looks like a rookie out there, competent in his job but unable to support others - in this case organizing the blocking assignments for a new quarterback.

on keenum's end he has to see that and know where his outlets are, and see the same quick reads as his receivers/tightends, something he's not doing. teams dont blitz schaub in this manner because that's his strength, he knows every play in the book and puts the ball on a spot - he's one of the best at exploiting a blitz. this goes back to the offseason for me though, case doesnt have the entire playbook and he doesnt have the ability to work with each receiver. he's too busy trying to get what he's supposed to do each week down and memorize the current gameplan, and doesnt have the opportunity to work on the fundamentals and cohesion behind each design. i may be overestimating what keenum could do with that time, but i feel that he could very well turn into a very good quarterback with the practice time.

finally, the coaches HAVE to see what the rest of the world sees and make these adjustments. teams are sending 6+ at keenum the entire second half, how is it so impossible to create plays to take advantage of this? instead of a 5 second developing screen, how about a quick leak to dennis johnson with wade smith leading? a 3-step slant->fade double move to andre? stay in a heavier package to allow run options if teams want to pass rush, an 8 yard run is better than a quick out route.

it IS the same thing week after week, and someone needs to do something about it. case is very much at fault for these failings, but he's hardly the only one or even the most at fault.

Are you familiar with capitalizing proper nouns, like Case Keenum?

In the next three games, I want to see what we have in Case. Does he show any promise as a future NFL starter, as a sufficient primary backup, or perhaps as some minuscule trade value. By the way, I also want to find out the same about TJ. Our next head coach needs to know what to do with him as well. Which, or both, of these guys need to be retained/promoted on the 2014 Texans. And is it viable to continue with either as a starter and select a second round QB as future competition for them both?

I'd prefer to build in the trenches BEFORE spending the first/2nd OVERALL draft pick on a QB that's going to receive the David Carr welcome treatment.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Wilson already has a year playing.
Why don't you compare his first seven starts against Keenum's?

With the benefit of a stout defense, a running game, and a ST that doesn't stink like the Texans, Wilson managed to lead the Hawks to many fewer offensive scores in those seven games than Keenum did in less than six and a half games.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Luck's first seven starts.
Last year, I had a post in which I noted that in the first five games alone, Luck had ten near-INTs, at least 5 of them were balls that he threw right into the defenders' arms and they simply dropped the ball. It was like the defenders were his receivers; that was how bad those throws were.

Why don't you compare Keenum's play with Geno Smith, whom you seem to spend the effort defending.
You're a funny dude. You count near ints,tell me how many near ints case had this year. He had like 5 in the arizona game alone,but I don't see you're stat sheet on that one. In regards to geno,I don't have to pull stats to see he's sucking and has more downs than ups,but I also can say and see when he was presented the chance to win ball games he did like buffalo and even new england. Not to mention ,his line is bad also and none of his wrs are even close to andre who is giving case clear reads.

I dunno why you bring up luck when I was responding to when people complain about the zbs. People are talking about how ineffective the zbs when the team isn't playing well. The same zbs put up almost 500 yds on that stout defense you're talking about. I always say think players,not plays and schemes. Any system of blocking works when you have the proper players.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I wasn't the one who brought up luck. He doesn't have to be luck or suck but he does have to win a game. Tell me more about the one offs. How many QBs start off 0-7 and don't turn it around. It's one thing to like a player and it's something totally different to be blind or make every excuse for said player
You ought to remember that I defended Schaub to an extent last year, too

I said that Schaub is not the type of QB that can carry a team.
He needs the defense to step up.
He needs the ST not to suck.
He needs the line (mostly Wade Smith, the combo at right guard, and Newton) to play better to help him out.
Everybody is accountable, not one single player.

Since then, Keenum had to play with a defense that saw more injuries.
The kicker was worse than the one we has last year.
The pass rush has been worse, it can't get to the opponent's QB as much.
The back end continues to leave receivers and the TE wide open.
Fewer turnovers created by the D never help a QB.
Receivers drop ball; they don't make play for Keenum nearly as much as the opponents did for their QBs.
Those are facts, not excuse.

Do you recall how people was saying that Wayne seemed to find his fountain of youth, and TY Hilton and D. Allen were such good finds for the Colts.
And the kicker can actually make FG.

Do you like to evaluate the QB position so as to have a better understanding about the plan for the future, or you rather just shoot down Keenum for any reason just to say that you are "right"?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Are you familiar with capitalizing proper nouns, like Case Keenum?

In the next three games, I want to see what we have in Case. Does he show any promise as a future NFL starter, as a sufficient primary backup, or perhaps as some minuscule trade value. By the way, I also want to find out the same about TJ. Our next head coach needs to know what to do with him as well. Which, or both, of these guys need to be retained/promoted on the 2014 Texans. And is it viable to continue with either as a starter and select a second round QB as future competition for them both?

I'd prefer to build in the trenches BEFORE spending the first/2nd OVERALL draft pick on a QB that's going to receive the David Carr welcome treatment.
[b/]

I'm sure oakland thought the same when they passed big ben and rivers for robert gallery.
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
Man, there is some serious denial in this thread. New HC will bring in a QB and he'll have the pick of the draft to do it. I doubt he wants Kubiak's hand-me-downs.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You ought to remember that I defended Schaub to an extent last year, too

I said that Schaub is not the type of QB that can carry a team.
He needs the defense to step up.
He needs the ST not to suck.
He needs the line (mostly Wade Smith, the combo at right guard, and Newton) to play better to help him out.
Everybody is accountable, not one single player.

Since then, Keenum had to play with a defense that saw more injuries.
The kicker was worse than the one we has last year.
The pass rush has been worse, it can't get to the opponent's QB as much.
The back end continues to leave receivers and the TE wide open.
Fewer turnovers created by the D never help a QB.
Receivers drop ball; they don't make play for Keenum nearly as much as the opponents did for their QBs.
Those are facts, not excuse.

Do you recall how people was saying that Wayne seemed to find his fountain of youth, and TY Hilton and D. Allen were such good finds for the Colts.
And the kicker can actually make FG.

Do you like to evaluate the QB position so as to have a better understanding about the plan for the future, or you rather just shoot down Keenum for any reason just to say that you are "right"?
I hear what you're saying,but if a qb needs all those factors to be hitting on all cylinders,then you really don't have a qb. In the playoffs and against top notch teams,their going to cancel something and then its back on the qb. That's the reason I never thought schaub was capable of taking the texans anywhere. Unless the team is already built up like granite and you get a qb to play lights out on a rookie deal,its basically impossible. That's why all the teams with vets have holes somewhere because of the salary cap. A top shelf qb has to manage these holes. That's not to say you can't surround him with good players,but your draft has to be always on point.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You're a funny dude. You count near ints,tell me how many near ints case had this year. He had like 5 in the arizona game alone,but I don't see you're stat sheet on that one. In regards to geno,I don't have to pull stats to see he's sucking and has more downs than ups,but I also can say and see when he was presented the chance to win ball games he did like buffalo and even new england. Not to mention ,his line is bad also and none of his wrs are even close to andre who is giving case clear reads.

I dunno why you bring up luck when I was responding to when people complain about the zbs. People are talking about how ineffective the zbs when the team isn't playing well. The same zbs put up almost 500 yds on that stout defense you're talking about. I always say think players,not plays and schemes. Any system of blocking works when you have the proper players.
Go ahead and bring up the near-Int that you thought you saw in all seven games.

I had discussed some of them before.

Just because you think you saw something, doesn't mean that it's actually true.
That was why I stressed the throws that Luck made directly to the defender, like the one Keenum served to Allan Ball.

If Ball had dropped that ball, it would have been a true "near-Int".

And why is it that you can bring up Wilson and I can't bring up other QBs?

Does it have to be your rule?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I hear what you're saying,but if a qb needs all those factors to be hitting on all cylinders,then you really don't have a qb. In the playoffs and against top notch teams,their going to cancel something and then its back on the qb. That's the reason I never thought schaub was capable of taking the texans anywhere. Unless the team is already built up like granite and you get a qb to play lights out on a rookie deal,its basically impossible. That's why all the teams with vets have holes somewhere because of the salary cap. A top shelf qb has to manage these holes. That's not to say you can't surround him with good players,but your draft has to be always on point.
It's fine to ask the QB to carry the team sometimes.

It's harder to ask a first time starter to do so.
Neither Luck nor Wilson nor Geno had to do it without help.
They had more help than Keenum did.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
For example, in the Pats game (discount the last drive because Keenum had the ball at his own 5 with 8 seconds to go), on the next to last drive, AJ dropped the ball in first down, Graham dropped it on second down, and Jones/Myers (I believe) messed up on protection, Keenum had to throw the ball away.
What do you expect Keenum to do?

Go block for himself and go catch the ball for himself?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I wonder how ineffective Luck or Wilson is against the blitz in the second half?


You can set a watch by Case Keenum's
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Like I said; I'm rather busy this year; I don't have time to go into the details as much as I would like to.

I can tell you a few things that I observed.

1. Weird that there was NO hot route on a few blitzes.

2. Tate ran a wrong route on third down.
I've heard of a 5-yd quickout, not a 3-yd quick out where the back also inexplicably curled back to the outside.
Never seen a 3-yd outside quick curl before.

3. Hot receivers were either held or fell down or got lost in the pile.
 

EVOLVIST

Kid A
I wonder how ineffective Luck or Wilson is against the blitz in the second half?


You can set a watch by Case Keenum's
You can set your watch on poor play calling for the "2nd year rookie," too.

Ineptitude from the shell of a head coach to the guys in the cleats. And those guys with the pads on are soldiers. They don't go maverick. They do how they're instructed to do.

Near the end here I don't think many of the Houston Texans were put in a position to fully utilize their talents. That goes for the QB position to the long snapper.

Gary lost his job for a reason...and he won't be the last one from the 2013 Texans. Keenum be damned, also, if that's the way it pans out.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Go ahead and bring up the near-Int that you thought you saw in all seven games.

I had discussed some of them before.

Just because you think you saw something, doesn't mean that it's actually true.
That was why I stressed the throws that Luck made directly to the defender, like the one Keenum served to Allan Ball.

If Ball had dropped that ball, it would have been a true "near-Int".

And why is it that you can bring up Wilson and I can't bring up other QBs?

Does it have to be your rule?
You're blind loyalty holds strong when you love a player. I tell you what, go watch the very 1st throw keenum made to andre in his 1st start. That was either a bad throw or bad read. If not for andre,that was a int. One minute, I don't know what I'm looking at but you do? I know, as well as do that neither of us know the route or stem when a qb throws an int. I don't make it seem like I know what the route is supposed to be on a particular play. I admit it,but you don't. When schaub threw the pick 6 vs tenn and everyoneblamed the rookie hopkins,I thought he made the correct read based on coverage and leverage and schaub mis-read the coverage. I said it when it happened,but we don't know,its just mere speculation.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Like I said; I'm rather busy this year; I don't have time to go into the details as much as I would like to.

I can tell you a few things that I observed.

1. Weird that there was NO hot route on a few blitzes.

2. Tate ran a wrong route on third down.
I've heard of a 5-yd quickout, not a 3-yd quick out where the back also inexplicably curled back to the outside.
Never seen a 3-yd outside quick curl before.

3. Hot receivers were either held or fell down or got lost in the pile.
See,now you're making stuff up. There are hot routes for every wr on every pass play. Its impossible for me believe aj didn't know his hot read. Its almost hard to believe graham didn't know his hot read. If you wanna tell me hopkins missed his,I can believe that.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
Man, there is some serious denial in this thread. New HC will bring in a QB and he'll have the pick of the draft to do it. I doubt he wants Kubiak's hand-me-downs.
Ultimately, it will come down to that, whether that's a high or mid round draft choice, a vet, or some combination. I don't think any new HC we hire is going to go into next year with just the three guys we have now.

Case will get a shot to compete, he's earned that, but I don't see any situation in which a HC comes in here and lays it all on the line for Keenum. There will be a competition and if a #1 overall pick is involved, he's 98% going to win that job.
 

Nitrofish

Let The Big Fish Eat!
I wasn't the one who brought up luck. He doesn't have to be luck or suck but he does have to win a game. Tell me more about the one offs. How many QBs start off 0-7 and don't turn it around. It's one thing to like a player and it's something totally different to be blind or make every excuse for said player
Everytime I am catching up on threads, and a comment comes to mind, I find your comments a few down or the next page, and you cover everything I was going to say. Kind of weird but there it is. Thanks for keeping it real.

It's fine to ask the QB to carry the team sometimes.

It's harder to ask a first time starter to do so.
Neither Luck nor Wilson nor Geno had to do it without help.
They had more help than Keenum did.
That is BS. Just more excuses especially the comments about Geno Smith. He has literally no help so I do not see how you can make such comparisons. Keenum does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Luck or Wilson. Geno... yeah I think that is fair, even though Smith is physically more gifted than Keenum.

For example, in the Pats game (discount the last drive because Keenum had the ball at his own 5 with 8 seconds to go), on the next to last drive, AJ dropped the ball in first down, Graham dropped it on second down, and Jones/Myers (I believe) messed up on protection, Keenum had to throw the ball away.
What do you expect Keenum to do?

Go block for himself and go catch the ball for himself?
The same thing you expected Schaub to do, which is block for himself, catch the ball, call the penalties, etc, etc. Everyone expected Schaub to do those things and put the losses squarely on Schaub shoulders, but now that the hometown boy is in there it is, well you see you have to apply this secret formula when analyzing Keenum because he is special, and has that IT factor, and an aura about him.

Hogwash. You may have given Keenum some leeway in his first few starts, but now, the excuses should be gone. He is not playing at U of H anymore against scrubs. He is playing in the NFL against the best of the best, and it is clear to me he cannot hack it.

This is why I think most of this Keenum stuff is just a variation of trolling.
Just like all the Schaub trolling right?
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
So all you Keenum bashers - how many games does Bridgewater (or whatever draft pick) get before you say the same things? 6?
 

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
So all you Keenum bashers - how many games does Bridgewater (or whatever draft pick) get before you say the same things? 6?


Whats his record? Does he looked confused? Is he unable to figure out the blitz? Can he hit short to int passes? Are his first two games his best and then he falls to meh after that?

Case stats his last 5 games

84/160 52.5% 5td 4ints Im not sure how many of his 5 fumbles are in those games.

Luck for instance might have had meh stats last year however he had 7 game winning drives.

Wins make up for a lot so its not a simple question
 

Vinnie

with an I E
So all you Keenum bashers - how many games does Bridgewater (or whatever draft pick) get before you say the same things? 6?
Exactly, the bashing is laughable. This season has been laughable, if I'm being honest and the next will most likely be hilarious. Jeebus, let Case finish out the season pleez. All of this wanting to anoint him the next Tommy Brady or toss him in the reject pile is stupid.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
So all you Keenum bashers - how many games does Bridgewater (or whatever draft pick) get before you say the same things? 6?
Teddy's going to walk on water for a couple of years before any criticism from these guys appears.

At the same time some of the "Case didn't get a real chance" people will jump on the first things Bridgewater does wrong after he has as many games played as Case gets and they'll have something to say.

I wish we could all get on one page about this because I hate the fan-boy Holy Wars. I wanted Case to succeed. I really did. It would have made things so much easier and who doesn't want their teams QB to step up and be the next Brees/Brady type of guy (but who came out of nowhere which makes it even better). I don't see it though and I accept that the window appears to be shutting. I wanted that but I'll move on to whatever we're doing next and hope they made the right decision. Nobody has too much time to wait for guys to pan out anymore. It's just the reality of the situation.

This all has begun to stink like the 2006 Vince Young Holy War (only in miniature).
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Teddy's going to walk on water for a couple of years before any criticism from these guys appears.

At the same time some of the "Case didn't get a real chance" people will jump on the first things Bridgewater does wrong after he has as many games played as Case gets and they'll have something to say.

I wish we could all get on one page about this because I hate the fan-boy Holy Wars. I wanted Case to succeed. I really did. It would have made things so much easier and who doesn't want their teams QB to step up and be the next Brees/Brady type of guy (but who came out of nowhere which makes it even better). I don't see it though and I accept that the window appears to be shutting. I wanted that but I'll move on to whatever we're doing next and hope they made the right decision. Nobody has too much time to wait for guys to pan out anymore. It's just the reality of the situation.

This all has begun to stink like the 2006 Vince Young Holy War (only in miniature).
I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. The people here who have their minds made up about Case had their minds made up about him before he ever played his first game. Those same people will be willing to give Bridgewater YEARS to fail. None of it matters from a team standpoint. They'll make the decision they make based on whatever they see and the fans have nothing to do with it. But for those of us wanting to see an honest evaluation, we'll just keep having to tolerate the asshattery that follows.

Personally, I want them to draft the next Andrew Luck. I want a QB that I never have to doubt. Keenum doesn't appear to be that guy, but that guy also doesn't exist in this year's draft, as far as I can see.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. The people here who have their minds made up about Case had their minds made up about him before he ever played his first game. Those same people will be willing to give Bridgewater YEARS to fail. None of it matters from a team standpoint. They'll make the decision they make based on whatever they see and the fans have nothing to do with it. But for those of us wanting to see an honest evaluation, we'll just keep having to tolerate the asshattery that follows.

Personally, I want them to draft the next Andrew Luck. I want a QB that I never have to doubt. Keenum doesn't appear to be that guy, but that guy also doesn't exist in this year's draft, as far as I can see.
I can agree for the most part. I don't mind seeing Keenum get the start the remainder of the season. I just haven't seen a lot of improvement over the past 7 games. But hey, maybe the next 3 games will tell us something we don't already know. It'll be a good test against the Colts, Broncos and titans
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It's all fine.

I wouldn't call people bashers (even if they are) .
Nothing wrong with wanting a winning team.

The guy has lost every game he started.

Only thing they can't look me in the eyes to tell me that this coaching staff deserves to be here.
Damn Keenum , you were supposed to revive these careers; even when they pulled you off.
 

Runner

Hubcap Diamond
Staff member
Teddy's going to walk on water for a couple of years before any criticism from these guys appears.

At the same time some of the "Case didn't get a real chance" people will jump on the first things Bridgewater does wrong after he has as many games played as Case gets and they'll have something to say.

I wish we could all get on one page about this because I hate the fan-boy Holy Wars. I wanted Case to succeed. I really did. It would have made things so much easier and who doesn't want their teams QB to step up and be the next Brees/Brady type of guy (but who came out of nowhere which makes it even better). I don't see it though and I accept that the window appears to be shutting. I wanted that but I'll move on to whatever we're doing next and hope they made the right decision. Nobody has too much time to wait for guys to pan out anymore. It's just the reality of the situation.

This all has begun to stink like the 2006 Vince Young Holy War (only in miniature).
There are basically two topics right now:

1) Keenum
2) The threads proving that no coach is good enough to take over the mighty 2-11 Texans

I guess there is a sprinkiling of Rick Smith and player critiques too.

I can't complain; I can't think of anything interesting, or at least less chewed over, to discuss either. It will be a long off-season of WW1-like trench warfare.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Everytime I am catching up on threads, and a comment comes to mind, I find your comments a few down or the next page, and you cover everything I was going to say. Kind of weird but there it is. Thanks for keeping it real.



That is BS. Just more excuses especially the comments about Geno Smith. He has literally no help so I do not see how you can make such comparisons. Keenum does not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Luck or Wilson. Geno... yeah I think that is fair, even though Smith is physically more gifted than Keenum.


The same thing you expected Schaub to do, which is block for himself, catch the ball, call the penalties, etc, etc. Everyone expected Schaub to do those things and put the losses squarely on Schaub shoulders, but now that the hometown boy is in there it is, well you see you have to apply this secret formula when analyzing Keenum because he is special, and has that IT factor, and an aura about him.

Hogwash. You may have given Keenum some leeway in his first few starts, but now, the excuses should be gone. He is not playing at U of H anymore against scrubs. He is playing in the NFL against the best of the best, and it is clear to me he cannot hack it.



Just like all the Schaub trolling right?
I used to think you had a point.

I'd like to think that you still have a point.

You give your opinion, and it is noted.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
See,now you're making stuff up. There are hot routes for every wr on every pass play. Its impossible for me believe aj didn't know his hot read. Its almost hard to believe graham didn't know his hot read. If you wanna tell me hopkins missed his,I can believe that.
There was that game Hopkins was benched for making "too many" mistakes. I believe it was not reading the defense & adjusting his route to help Case.

But for Case to consistently not find the hot receiver.... can't all be on the other receiver, when sometimes it's Hopkins. Sometimes it's Graham. Sometimes it's Andre. To think they are all consistently screwing up... it's a stretch.

Heck, if I saw Keenum making a poor throw to a hot receiver, I would give him more credit than I am now, but as it is..... he is doing nothing to help the team when defenses blitz him.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There are basically two topics right now:

1) Keenum
2) The threads proving that no coach is good enough to take over the mighty 2-11 Texans

I guess there is a sprinkiling of Rick Smith and player critiques too.

I can't complain; I can't think of anything interesting, or at least less chewed over, to discuss either. It will be a long off-season of WW1-like trench warfare.
To quote both you and Herv, and many more posters. There are more than meet the eyes.

Even as I had stressed again and again that I wanted (before the draft) for the Texans to take both Wilson and Keenum.
It was all over the board, and not just in the mock draft/college FB forum.

It's hell funny that Leebig brought up Wilson to compare with Keenum.

It's all good though. He brings up some good points, whether it's relevant to the case or not.
He's from the John Madden's school of QB.
I'm from the Bill Walsh's school.

It's all good.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There was that game Hopkins was benched for making "too many" mistakes. I believe it was not reading the defense & adjusting his route to help Case.

But for Case to consistently not find the hot receiver.... can't all be on the other receiver, when sometimes it's Hopkins. Sometimes it's Graham. Sometimes it's Andre. To think they are all consistently screwing up... it's a stretch.

Heck, if I saw Keenum making a poor throw to a hot receiver, I would give him more credit than I am now, but as it is..... he is doing nothing to help the team when defenses blitz him.
TK, you know me. An opinion is like an A.
Bring up specific play.
I'm tired of your antic, really.
 

2012Champs

Hall of Fame
TK, you know me. An opinion is like an A.
Bring up specific play.
I'm tired of your antic, really.


Can you explain why Case's comp rate is only 1-2% higher on passes attempts 19 yards and under vs 20 and over? Typically those shorter passes would be something you complete a lot more often
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
TK, you know me. An opinion is like an A.
Bring up specific play.
I'm tired of your antic, really.
I'm sorry but I don't feel like playing your game no more.

The season is lost anyway.
If I can find some time, I will try to address the plays.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. The people here who have their minds made up about Case had their minds made up about him before he ever played his first game. Those same people will be willing to give Bridgewater YEARS to fail. None of it matters from a team standpoint. They'll make the decision they make based on whatever they see and the fans have nothing to do with it. But for those of us wanting to see an honest evaluation, we'll just keep having to tolerate the asshattery that follows.

Personally, I want them to draft the next Andrew Luck. I want a QB that I never have to doubt. Keenum doesn't appear to be that guy, but that guy also doesn't exist in this year's draft, as far as I can see.
Me either. I'm not seeing anything really special about Bridgewater or any of the other guys. There are no easy can't-miss franchise guys out there so it's complicated trying to pick the right one and it sucks knowing that often the Texans screw up situations like this.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
I just hate the hypocrisy of it all. The people here who have their minds made up about Case had their minds made up about him before he ever played his first game. Those same people will be willing to give Bridgewater YEARS to fail. None of it matters from a team standpoint. They'll make the decision they make based on whatever they see and the fans have nothing to do with it. But for those of us wanting to see an honest evaluation, we'll just keep having to tolerate the asshattery that follows.

Personally, I want them to draft the next Andrew Luck. I want a QB that I never have to doubt. Keenum doesn't appear to be that guy, but that guy also doesn't exist in this year's draft, as far as I can see.
I agree, there is no Luck in this draft. That would be next year's draft, unfortunately.

I really can't tell how good Bridgewater is. I am finding myself going back and forth on him constantly. I really like his poise and he acknowledges mistakes when he makes them, even if it is just an incompletion. Doesn't make a lot of "damn, he just lost the game for us" kind of mistakes. I think he has high football IQ. The two things that have me questioning him are the competition and the loftiness of his passes.

In regards to Keenum, I like what he has shown us, I absolutely think he is a contender for the job next year, even with a new coach coming in. I think there have been a number of negative influences on the team that have made his job much more difficult as a new starter. Injuries, losing streak, fans losing confidence, players losing confidence, coaches losing confidence, etc. I'll be interested to see how he approaches the last 3 games and more importantly the offseason. He'll have a head start on whoever is coming in to compete with him.

Having said that, he needs to show some improvement in the weaker parts of his game or he isn't going to last long with a new HC, especially if that guy invests heavily in a new young guy.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Teddy B will change many minds at he combine since all people want to see are black and white stats.

Forget what the majority of professional scouts and analysts say. Lateral thinking is nonexistent when discussing a polarizing topic.

Most people here writing off Bridgewater haven't seen him play or don't understand the intricacies of the position. They spew bad conference rhetoric as if that defines good QB play. He is not a franchise QB yet people expect to find that player in a later round? Crazy.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Teddy B will change many minds at he combine since all people want to see are black and white stats.

Forget what the majority of professional scouts and analysts say. Lateral thinking is nonexistent when discussing a polarizing topic.

Most people here writing off Bridgewater haven't seen him play or don't understand the intricacies of the position. They spew bad conference rhetoric as if that defines good QB play. He is not a franchise QB yet people expect to find that player in a later round? Crazy.
I don't expect to find a Franchise QB in this draft .
I voted to trade down just as did last year:
 

Linca

Practice Squad
Teddy B will change many minds at he combine since all people want to see are black and white stats.

Forget what the majority of professional scouts and analysts say. Lateral thinking is nonexistent when discussing a polarizing topic.

Most people here writing off Bridgewater haven't seen him play or don't understand the intricacies of the position. They spew bad conference rhetoric as if that defines good QB play. He is not a franchise QB yet people expect to find that player in a later round? Crazy.
I'm afraid you haven't seen him play. He plays poorly against bad defenses. Go watch Lousville play Rutgers, Memphis and UH. A top QB should be destroying these teams.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
To quote both you and Herv, and many more posters. There are more than meet the eyes.

Even as I had stressed again and again that I wanted (before the draft) for the Texans to take both Wilson and Keenum.
It was all over the board, and not just in the mock draft/college FB forum.

It's hell funny that Leebig brought up Wilson to compare with Keenum.

It's all good though. He brings up some good points, whether it's relevant to the case or not.
He's from the John Madden's school of QB.
I'm from the Bill Walsh's school.

It's all good.
I dont know what john madden school vs bill walsh is supposed to mean. I thought they shouldve taken mallet in the 3rd one yr, wilson or foles in the 3rd last yr. I thought they shouldve drafted geno in the 1st, john jenkins in the 2nd, and terrance williams or keenan allenn in the 3rd this yr. I miss some and hit some and I am not afraid to say it.
 

Yaky

Noob
It's all fine.

I wouldn't call people bashers (even if they are) .
Nothing wrong with wanting a winning team.

The guy has lost every game he started.

Only thing they can't look me in the eyes to tell me that this coaching staff deserves to be here.
Damn Keenum , you were supposed to revive these careers; even when they pulled you off.
Foles was like 1-6 last year.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I'm afraid you haven't seen him play. He plays poorly against bad defenses. Go watch Lousville play Rutgers, Memphis and UH. A top QB should be destroying these teams.
What should he do throw for 5k yards with 50 tds? He's not in a spread offense or aircentric passing programs. He runs a pro style offense. He's top 5 in completion % and QBR in the nation. Using who he plays against and the fact that ALL QBs are subject to a bad game, when you don't have another pro prospect on your team, he is the main reason that team is ranked and winning. Your argument is the only thing doubters are trying to latch onto and its one that is weak and has been addressed already. Is that all you can crticize the kid on?
 

EVOLVIST

Kid A
Is that all you can crticize the kid on?
No. He makes Buckwheat look like Denzel Washington.



In all seriousness, though, doesn't everybody see that anyone can latch on to anything while discussing "their guy," just as anybody can flame the other person's guy based upon equally flimsy "facts?"

Like sands through the hourglass...these are The Days of our Lives.
 

Linca

Practice Squad
What should he do throw for 5k yards with 50 tds? He's not in a spread offense or aircentric passing programs. He runs a pro style offense. He's top 5 in completion % and QBR in the nation. Using who he plays against and the fact that ALL QBs are subject to a bad game, when you don't have another pro prospect on your team, he is the main reason that team is ranked and winning. Your argument is the only thing doubters are trying to latch onto and its one that is weak and has been addressed already. Is that all you can crticize the kid on?
He's had multiple bad games against nobodies in the AAC. Those are just the facts and you how you parade him around as a franchise QB is beyond me.
 


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