Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

At least be consistent:


Did he have a great pre-season as a blocker or was he not a striker as a fullback? Which was it?

And I did some research on Victor Cruz. You're absolutely right. BUT you're also absolutely wrong.

I guess Victor Cruz wasn't doing it in practice and training camp for the Giants. As a matter of fact (if rumor is to be believed), the coaches wanted to cut him even after that great preseason. That feeds in to what I was saying, flashing in the games doesn't make that big of a difference to the coaches. Even after that huge preseason he had, the coaches were going to waive him. They thought he needed more time on the practice squad.

But the owners and front office heard they were going to cut Cruz and they came to Cruz's rescue because they knew he wouldn't clear waivers and they didn't want him to become a Jet. And Rex Ryan had said he'd sign him if he got cut.

So, you're right about Cruz getting saved and how. But that story also proves my point. In almost all cases, putting up some gaudy stats in the preseason won't get you a job unless you're showing you're a professional in practice.

And this is exactly why you don't know what you're talking about. When he said he wasn't a striker he meant that his blocking style was different from Lo Neal. LT played behind him for years and was used to him blowing guys up. Tolbert was a lot smaller, and used positioning more with his blocking. He did it well, but that's not what LT was used to. Running Back is an art and you get used to certain guys and how they block. He didn't prefer how Tolbert blocked. When you go from an all time FB to a guy like Tolbert there is a big difference. But anyone who watched the games still knew that Tolbert was playing well. His blocking style is similar to Casey's. Tolbert is a much better blocker, but he isn't gonna demolish guys like Lo Neal or Leach.

Dude, and about Cruz listen to what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense. The coaches were too scared to cut him because they knew another team would snatch him up! Why? Because he balled in the preseason games. They knew because he played so well in the preseason that there was no way they could afford to let him sneak away. You're making my case for me. Practice will only show you so much. When the lights turn on that's what really matters. You're normally pretty sane when it comes to your football takes, but you sound asinine with this one.
 
I completely agree with this. The four pre-season games are there for a reason, and I would not like them taken away. I'm also against adding any more games to the season. Things are just fine the way they are.

Ummm....

Paying full price for 4 glorified scrimmages isn't something season ticketholders agree with.
 
John Beck looked good against the Panthers in game 1, and didn't get any chance against the Niners because Kubiak wanted to start Case Keenum(for some I reason I think it's because he's the "hometown kid", not because he's better.

John Beck has experience in this system in Washington and he's a veteran, and we all know how much Kubiak loves veterans, I think Beck will be the 3rd QB on the depth chart and Keenum will be on the PS. And I really doubt anyone will pick up Keenum off the waivers list.
 
BTW Victor Cruz was injured after his great preseason and he was put on the IR, so no one could pick him up, and the Giants kept him on the team after he was healthy, which was last season.
 
He wasn't placed on IR until oct 16th though. Well into the season.

Yeah, sorry, that's true. For some reason i thought he was injured in the preseason. But he only played three games and didn't have any catches.

Not to mention it's much harder to make it on the NFL roster as an UDFA QB. And Case hasn't done anything in the preseason yet that will make teams get him if the Texans waived him.
 
Yeah, sorry, that's true. For some reason i thought he was injured in the preseason. But he only played three games and didn't have any catches.

Not to mention it's much harder to make it on the NFL roster as an UDFA QB. And Case hasn't done anything in the preseason yet that will make teams get him if the Texans waived him.

My point was that he made the team through his preseason performance. If he goes out and plays terrible then he doesn't make the team. This idea that preseason games doesn't matter makes as much sense as me trying out for Miss America. Tell that to Braman who also had a big preseason last year that helped him make the team.
 
John Beck looked good against the Panthers in game 1, and didn't get any chance against the Niners because Kubiak wanted to start Case Keenum(for some I reason I think it's because he's the "hometown kid", not because he's better.

John Beck has experience in this system in Washington and he's a veteran, and we all know how much Kubiak loves veterans, I think Beck will be the 3rd QB on the depth chart and Keenum will be on the PS. And I really doubt anyone will pick up Keenum off the waivers list.

Here's the issue: If Beck is the #3, then the Texans lose a roster spot (50 minus QBs)... If Keenum is the #3, then the Texans gain a roster spot (51 minus QBs) because he can be stashed on the practice squad... that's the issue.
 
After rewatching the SF game , gonna try this again - taking into consideration the input of a couple good posts in this thread.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Casey, Norris
TE – Daniels, Graham
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Brock
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jerrell Jackson (wr)
Pleasant
Meggett


Two changes from my last list -

Have Keenum making the final 53, dropping Brock, he's done nodda to earn it. Having Casey as the #1 FB #3 TE gives roster flexability.

Bumping Keo and replacing with Nading. His ST play earns him a roster spot. The other guy I considered was McManis. This will be a difficult decision as you could make an arguement for all three players. Just dont think you can have enough depth at the LB spots ....

There is always the option to place Keenum on the PS opening up another spot for a TE , ILB (Sharpton) or CB (McManis).
 
After rewatching the SF game , gonna try this again - taking into consideration the input of a couple good posts in this thread.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Casey, Norris
TE – Daniels, Graham
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Brock
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jerrell Jackson (wr)
Pleasant
Meggett


Two changes from my last list -

Have Keenum making the final 53, dropping Brock, he's done nodda to earn it. Having Casey as the #1 FB #3 TE gives roster flexability.

Bumping Keo and replacing with Nading. His ST play earns him a roster spot. The other guy I considered was McManis. This will be a difficult decision as you could make an arguement for all three players. Just dont think you can have enough depth at the LB spots ....

There is always the option to place Keenum on the PS opening up another spot for a TE , ILB (Sharpton) or CB (McManis).

I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!
 
I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!

Like i said , the debate between McManis and Nading is going to be a tough one. I just couldnt find a way to keep both. Nading is Marciano's guy on ST. Hard to envision him not making the cut.

Even if Keenum goes to the PS , what happens when Sharpton is ready to come off the PUP - someone has to go , who is it?! Maybe you dump Alexander in favor of Sharpton but he's also a good ST player.

I cant see Harris being left off .... would sure be a waste of a 2nd round pick. He has looked pretty good of late. I think he's a lock.

The cuts this year will include some very good players , they could easily make other rosters.
Kubiak has been known to cut guy's who he has no intention of keeping early , especially veterans , giving them the opportunity to catch on elsewhere ... Maybe we see a surprise cut in the first round of cuts that makes some of these decisions easier.

This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan. :specnatz:
 
This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan. :specnatz:

You and me both. Its nice to know we're choosing between releasing good players and not scrubs. No one wanted the trash we released in our early years. We'll have a few players plucked from our cuts this year.
 
And this is exactly why you don't know what you're talking about. When he said he wasn't a striker he meant that his blocking style was different from Lo Neal. LT played behind him for years and was used to him blowing guys up. Tolbert was a lot smaller, and used positioning more with his blocking. He did it well, but that's not what LT was used to. Running Back is an art and you get used to certain guys and how they block. He didn't prefer how Tolbert blocked. When you go from an all time FB to a guy like Tolbert there is a big difference. But anyone who watched the games still knew that Tolbert was playing well. His blocking style is similar to Casey's. Tolbert is a much better blocker, but he isn't gonna demolish guys like Lo Neal or Leach.

I've never heard that term used for a blocker. You would think that the term "striker" would imply someone who blows people up, not someone who uses positioning and leverage to block. Not the other way around. If I ever hear that term used that way again, I'll keep it in mind.

Dude, and about Cruz listen to what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense. The coaches were too scared to cut him because they knew another team would snatch him up! Why? Because he balled in the preseason games. They knew because he played so well in the preseason that there was no way they could afford to let him sneak away. You're making my case for me. Practice will only show you so much. When the lights turn on that's what really matters.

This is the point...

It wasn't the COACHES who were afraid to cut him. The coaches were going to. The coaches thought he needed more time to develop. They'd already filed the paperwork with the GM to cut him.

It was the NON-COACHES who were part of the front office who didn't want him cut.

You're normally pretty sane when it comes to your football takes, but you sound asinine with this one.

Dude. I'm always asinine. It's part of my charm.

Think about this for just a second.

Billick said that by the second preseason game, most coaches know 50 of their 53. That leaves 3 guys trying to play themselves onto the team. 3 guys. Per team. Per season.

That's 96 guys per year.

You've found a couple of cases.

Out of 96 cases per year.

So let's say Cruz and Tolbert played themselves onto their teams, so what?

Now think about a team we all know and love, the Texans. How many guys do we already KNOW are going to be on the team? Or did we know before this last game...

On the offense (18): Schaub, TJ, AJ, KW, Keshawn, Lestar, Devier, OD, Garrett, Casey, Chris Myers, Ben Jones, Caldwell, Wade Smith, Brandon Brooks, DB, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton.

On the defense (21): Watt, Antonio, Cody, Jamison, Crick, Mitchell, Reed, Barwin, Cushing, James, Mercilus, Braman, Alexander, Quin, Manning, Demps, Nolan, JJo, KJ, Harris, McCain.

On special teams (2): Weeks, Donnie. (I'm not sure if we should count the kicker's battle.)

From the rotations used, it looks like Dobbins and Sunny Harris are definitely in. Possibly Shelley Smith. That's 43 or 44 guys from the outside looking in. We fans don't know what they're planning or if they've already made up their minds about the QB situation, which FB to go with, which TEs and about Forsett/Grimes/Meggett.

What you're trying to tell me is that haven't already made their minds up on 6-7 guys more than I have even though they have a lot more data. I have to say I agree with Billick in this case. I think the coaches have most of the team already in place in their heads by this point.

* We can count Trindon as 1 of the 3 who's played his way on to the team, I think.
 
TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.
 
TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.

Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure.

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.
 
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.
 
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.
 
Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure.

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.

Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.
 
I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

Identical to my last list.
 
I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.

It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.
 
It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.

I think I'm blinded by the first practice I saw him in his rookie year. He looked like a seasoned vet. I will say we have the luxury of having 2 backup safeties who cover very well. That could allow us to carry one less Corner.
 
Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.

Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek
 
I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.
I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.
 
I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.

Man Ball is as good as gone .... He's the lovechild of Petey Faggins and Phillup Buchannon ...proficient in following a guy but never gets his head around which leads to all those penalties - EG Carolina.
 
Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.

We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the Pros.

Guys who don't practice well, don't play on most squads. Simple fact. If you don't practice well, Kubiak will not play you. Guys with an Allen Iverson I-show-up-for-the-game mentality don't see the field in the NFL. Every year, there are guys that put up big stats in the pre-season games and they get cut, they bounce around from team to team.

There are rare guys who are able to come back from that and work their way up. But guys like Arian Foster, James Harrison, Priest Holmes, Rod Smith, Kurt Warner, Victor Cruz, those guys are the exception and not the rule. And they've got to learn to practice like pros. Even Arian has admitted it took him most of his first year to figure it out.

In the NFL, you make the team on the practice field by working hard, doing your job, and being consistent. You practice sloppy and blow up in the preseason games and you're still on the bubble looking at getting waived, just like Victor Cruz was, just like Gartrell Johnson was, just like Tyrell Sutton was, just like Armond Smith was.

This isn't college where you can dick around all week and then show up on Saturday and put on a show... unless you're Brett Favre and there aren't many of those in the league.
 
We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the pros.

I don't think you understand.

It doesn't matter what level you are on. There is game speed, and there is practice speed.

NFL players will tell you that. As a matter if fact Duane brown and Chester Pitts mentioned it the other day about the difference between a vet in practice and the difference between a noob, or a guy trying to get noticed.

This has nothing to do with practicing well.

Have you ever played football at even a top highschool level? Serious question.

Because it's just a fact that guys are not out there going full go game speed. You practice hard. You get your work in.

But the game is just an entirely different level that you rarely reach in practice. I've had a couple of scout team guys trying to get noticed and thinking they were doing something. And then you turn it on for a few plays and baptize their ass and they realize what it is.

I can tell who has actually been around the game just from some of the little things like this conversation. And that's not a slight, it's just the truth.

And as a matter if fact I'd venture to say that as you go up in levels the practices overall become less "game like" as far as when you line up against teammates.

In pop Warner you are lining up and you'll knock the snot out of a guy if you get the chance just lime you'd hit an opponent on game day. Fast forward through middle school into high school and you aren't doing that as much. Go to a college practice and see it's even more rare.

Go to an NFL practice or talk to some NFL players and you probably don't see it at all.

Wr comes across the middle in pop warner some lb is going to crush him if he gets the chance.

Andre or OD run across the middle and who is going to hit them like it's game time? LOL, no one. Unless you want to get cut.

The higher in level you go you realize that you need to "play hard standing up".

You don't want to too often put in that extra effort you'd see on game day to take a guy to the ground.

That's why you hear high school, college and NFL coaches yelling "stay on your feet"! "stay off the ground"!!!

Because guys are not going game speed in practice generally. And like I said the guys that do are normally newbies or scrubs trying to get noticed and are often labeled "scout team heroes".
 
I don't think you understand.

You're right.

I've never played football beyond the Pop Warner level.

But I understand that there's game speed and there's practice speed. And I understand that some people play better when the lights come on. I'm a powerlifter and I deadlift a helluva lot more when I'm on the podium than I can even imagine lifting in the gym.

But that doesn't change the fact that most of a coaching staff's evaluation of their players is based on what they see in the OTAs and in training camp and what they know about the player from past history. That doesn't change the fact that pre-season games don't mean as much to player evaluations to the coaching staff as they do to fans watching from the outside.

Right now, right this second, Kubiak and Crew know most of the players who are going to be on the 53 and there are just a few edge battles still remaining for the guys on the bubble. Now, for us, the fans, we're basing our evaluations on what we see in those preseason games. If a guy makes some big catches in preseason like Dorin Dickerson did, we want him on the squad, but the coaching staff has been working with these guys and know (hopefully) which ones are getting it and which ones aren't, and which ones need more work. I'm not saying that coaching staffs don't get it wrong sometimes, but I am saying that fans get hung up on big performances in the preseason and then can't understand why those guys aren't making the team.

To use your own example, preseason games are not regular season games. Some guys flash in the preseason who can't do it when the bullets fly for real, for real.

And like I said earlier, coaches like Coughlin and Kubiak are notorious for not playing guys if they don't practice well. One of Kubiak's mantras is that you play like you practice. He's said it in several interviews. If you want to explain the difference between practice and game speed, take it up with them.
 
You're right.

I've never played football beyond the Pop Warner level.

But I understand that there's game speed and there's practice speed. And I understand that some people play better when the lights come on. I'm a powerlifter and I deadlift a helluva lot more when I'm on the podium than I can even imagine lifting in the gym.

I wasn't commenting on the conversation you were having. I was just commenting on the post corrosion made about some guys looking different in practice than in games.

But I guess I will now.

We dont get to see all the practices and sit in all the meeting rooms, so yeah, we have less information to base our opinions on. We also don't know exactly what the coaches expect out of players on any given play, so some of our opinions are based on just a guess and piecing together information based off what we think we know.

All that said, you can't tell everything from practice. Pre season is more about seeing what Lestar Jean or keyshawn martin can do against guys in a game situation than Andre Johnson or Kevin walter.

Yeah, most of your team you have a good idea of what they are, but for some of those guys trying to make the 53 or the practice squad, you may not have much of them in practice.

I don't mind if they shorten the pre season or leave it as it is though. The coaches are just going to have to make decisions without as much data as they'd normally have. But they should still be able to make decent decisions.
 
I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)
 
It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)

Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman need to be replaced by rmartin65 & 76Texan :htown2atx:
 
Case Keenum has an outside shot (at best) of making the final 53. If Kubiak is that frightened that some team will poach him off our practice squad, then I expect Keenum to get some kind of "injury" and get stashed on IR (Much like I expect DeVier Posey to do the same). I really don't see any team putting Case Keenum as one of their QB's on their 53 man roster, especially if he doesn't get any real meaningful action in the preseason (like he has so far).

I like Keenum too and he may develop into a player in the future, but right now, I seriously doubt there are any NFL teams who are chomping at the bit to go sign Case Keenum. If there are, they would've drafted him, and they aren't changing their minds because he threw 10 passes in the preseason.
 
It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)

Yes, recognizing the blitz was a good play. And yes, throwing to that particular receiver was most likely the best option. However, there is no denying that the pass was off the mark, and without the effort of the receiver to deflect the ball, there is a very real possibility (I would say likely) that that ball is picked and taken to the house. It was right in the SF defender's chest.

It is better to take the sack than turn the ball over. If Keenum did not think he could make that pass (and he did not make the pass) then he should have taken the sack.
 
I wasn't commenting on the conversation you were having. I was just commenting on the post corrosion made about some guys looking different in practice than in games.

But I guess I will now.

We dont get to see all the practices and sit in all the meeting rooms, so yeah, we have less information to base our opinions on. We also don't know exactly what the coaches expect out of players on any given play, so some of our opinions are based on just a guess and piecing together information based off what we think we know.

All that said, you can't tell everything from practice. Pre season is more about seeing what Lestar Jean or keyshawn martin can do against guys in a game situation than Andre Johnson or Kevin walter.

Yeah, most of your team you have a good idea of what they are, but for some of those guys trying to make the 53 or the practice squad, you may not have much of them in practice.

I don't mind if they shorten the pre season or leave it as it is though. The coaches are just going to have to make decisions without as much data as they'd normally have. But they should still be able to make decent decisions.

And that's the point. From the practices, the OTAs, the meetings, and whatnot, you know the majority of who's going to be on your team. The preseason games decide the fate of those few remaining spots that you're not sure about AND the preseason games give you a chance to tweak who's with the 1s vs. who's with the 2's. There are some guys who play their way on to the team during this phase.

Billick said that by the second preseason game, you usually know 50 of the 53. That might have been overstating the case but I don't think it's very far off especially if you consider what we, the fans, think we know about the current roster.

AND, having a huge game or two in the preseason doesn't necessarily assure you a spot on a roster. There are lots of examples of guys who have big preseasons and then get cut. And it's usually a surprise to the fans because, unlike the coaches, we're basing most -- if not all -- our evaluation on those preseason games.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Yes, recognizing the blitz was a good play. And yes, throwing to that particular receiver was most likely the best option. However, there is no denying that the pass was off the mark, and without the effort of the receiver to deflect the ball, there is a very real possibility (I would say likely) that that ball is picked and taken to the house. It was right in the SF defender's chest.

It is better to take the sack than turn the ball over. If Keenum did not think he could make that pass (and he did not make the pass) then he should have taken the sack.

Nah, the safety first job was to cover the RB Forsett, who went into the motion wide right to the side line.

Forsett was turning back the whole time looking for the ball since the CB lining up over him came in on the blitz.

I would say in an instance like this, the RB should run harder downfield to keep the safety back.

The way this play was designed is like a Hi-Lo concept.
The guy that runs the deeper route needs to concentrate on spreading the field for the underneath receiver.

If he went hard at it he would have a lot of seperation when the safety decides to jump the underneath route.
That would make an easier decision for the QB, as he can go long right off the bat.
 
Case Keenum has an outside shot (at best) of making the final 53. If Kubiak is that frightened that some team will poach him off our practice squad, then I expect Keenum to get some kind of "injury" and get stashed on IR (Much like I expect DeVier Posey to do the same). I really don't see any team putting Case Keenum as one of their QB's on their 53 man roster, especially if he doesn't get any real meaningful action in the preseason (like he has so far).

I like Keenum too and he may develop into a player in the future, but right now, I seriously doubt there are any NFL teams who are chomping at the bit to go sign Case Keenum. If there are, they would've drafted him, and they aren't changing their minds because he threw 10 passes in the preseason.

If everything goes well, I would rather have Keenum on the PS.

More likely than not, other teams won't pick him up; but one never knows.

What is more interesting is whether Kubiak wants to keep 3 QBs on the roster.
 
If everything goes well, I would rather have Keenum on the PS.

More likely than not, other teams won't pick him up; but one never knows.

What is more interesting is whether Kubiak wants to keep 3 QBs on the roster.

I think that's what's going to happen. I'm pretty sure he'll go with 3 QB's this year but I'm not sure if Beck is really going to be that 3rd guy, or if he's going to find somebody who got cut.

Speaking of small QB's though, Russell Wilson, tiny qb extraordinaire of Wisconsin fame, will be getting the start for Seattle this Friday. So you know, we might have somebody other than Drew Brees and Doug Flutie to compare Keenum to.
 
I think that's what's going to happen. I'm pretty sure he'll go with 3 QB's this year but I'm not sure if Beck is really going to be that 3rd guy, or if he's going to find somebody who got cut.

Speaking of small QB's though, Russell Wilson, tiny qb extraordinaire of Wisconsin fame, will be getting the start for Seattle this Friday. So you know, we might have somebody other than Drew Brees and Doug Flutie to compare Keenum to.

I did say during the draft that I was also very impressed by Wilson.
He and Keenum were the top two guys who performed well under pressure.
 
Guys, I did a 53 man roster at TBB. You can check it out here. http://is.gd/hZv6eX

I could only find two open spots on the roster and the whole thing balances on wether or not the Texans decide to keep CB Alan Ball as a vet CB despite is poor performance.

Don't discount them keeping him either. Vance Joseph did wonders with this secondary from a teaching standpoint and Ball is a willing tackler.

Here's the offense:

1 QB1 M. Schaub
2 QB2 T. Yates
3 QB3 C. Keenum After losing 2 QB's in as many weeks, the days of Kubiak only keeping 2 passers are over.
4 RB1 A. Foster
5 RB2 B. Tate
6 RB3 J. Forsett
7 FB1 J. Casey
8 FB2 M. Norris
9 TE1 O. Daniels
10 TE2 G. Graham Casey’s versatility makes carrying only 2 TE’s more possible but a 3rd TE could be had in exchange for another position. This is one of two possible scenarios that I could see.
11 WR1 A. Johnson
12 WR2 K. Walter
13 WR3 K. Martin
14 WR4 L. Jean
15 WR5 T. Holliday Having a good football team has awarded the Texans the ultimate luxury of a return “specialist”.
16 WR6 D. Posey Yes, all three of the young WR’s make the roster. Kubiak believes in Posey and wouldn’t risk leaving him unprotected on the practice squad.
17 OT1 D. Brown
18 OT2 R. Butler
19 OT3 D. Newton
20 OG1 W. Smith
21 OG2 A. Caldwell
22 OG3 S. Smith Shelley Smith played his way into an extra roster spot for the guards. This extra spot is had in exchange for the third TE.
23 OG4 B. Brooks Brooks potential and high draft status will keep him on the roster as well, similar to Posey.
24 C C. Meyers
25 C B. Jones
 
WR1 Andre Johnson Keshawn Martin Lestar Jean
LT Duane Brown Andrew Gardner
LG Wade Smith Kasey Studdard
C Chris Myers Ben Jones
RG Antoine Caldwell Brandon Brooks Shelley Smith
RT Rashad Butler Derek Newton
TE Owen Daniels Garrett Graham
WR2 Kevin Walter DeVier Posey Trindon Holliday
QB Matt Schaub T.J. Yates
RB Arian Foster Ben Tate Justin Forsett
FB James Casey

DE J.J. Watt Tim Jamison
DT Shaun Cody Earl Mitchell Ra'Shon Harris
DE Antonio Smith Jared Crick
SLB Brooks Reed Bryan Braman Jesse Nading
ILB Brian Cushing Mister Alexander
ILB Bradie James Tim Dobbins
WLB Connor Barwin Whitney Mercilus
LCB Kareem Jackson Sherrick McManis Brandon Harris
RCB Johnathan Joseph Brice McCain
SS Danieal Manning Quintin Demps
FS Glover Quin Troy Nolan

PK Shayne Graham
P Donnie Jones
LS Jonathan Weeks
 
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GGraham
LT: DB, Butler, Newton
LG: Smith, Smith, Caldwell, Brooks
C: Myers, Jones

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo Harris??
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, McManis, Carmichael
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
K/PR: Holliday
P: Jones
K: Bullock

I think the only thing I'd change is Fangupo not making the roster, and forgot to add Hartmann and Sharpton to the PUP list.
 
Kubiak today:

(on how he would evaluate the progress of QB Case Keenum right now) “I think he’s further along than I thought he would be. Watching him get ready for the combine and all those things, going from a shotgun player to an under center player, it looked like it was a struggle. I’m sure it was. So that was a concern of mine, but me watching him do it for us has been excellent. He’s handled it, the snaps, all that we do has not been a problem. So I’ve been very impressed with how far he’s come. He could or could not get some time this week, depending on how it goes with our ones and our twos. Between he and John (Beck), they’re going to play a ton of football against Minnesota. He’s holding his own. I’ve been very impressed.”

Denison today:
(on QBs John Beck and Case Keenum) “I think both of them have done very well. We still keep working with them, it’s still open. We’ve got two games. (QB) Matt (Schaub) and (QB) T.J. (Yates) will get a lot of this game, and then the last game we’ll see how that works out. I think both of them have done we’ll; both have obviously strengths and weaknesses. John’s been around the system, he’s played a lot in the League, and Case is a battler. He always figures out a way to do it. Obviously, with the career at Houston, you can see that at practice.”



(on if logic is telling him to go with the more experienced QB, John Beck) “I don’t know; logic and my name has rarely been in the same sentence. I think it’ll play itself out, I really do. I think we’ll figure that one out. It’ll play itself out and obviously (QB) Matt (Schaub) and (QB) T.J. (Yates) have done everything we’ve asked and done great. Matt’s really made some strides, especially the last couple weeks.”

link
 
Thanks for the update Cloak.

It's good to know that I'm seeing what the coaches are seeing.

Here's a bit I picked up from Schaub in the same report:

(on QB Case Keenum) “I think his progression has been really good. He’s a tremendous worker; his mind for the game is incredible for a young guy in this league, especially in our system, something totally new to him and from what he ran in college for five, six years. How he’s picked it up and how he works has been very impressive. So it’s been exciting to watch.”
 
Last edited:
I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

I know!
My brother-in-law was furious that Kubiak didn't let people see a little more of Keenum.
Make it hard to evaluate his play.

He did the same thing in the Panthers game.
We had the ball on the Car 19 with 1:38 to go.
Kubiak called a run for Meggett that gained 6 then ordered Keenum to kneel twice to end the game.

With two minutes or less left in those games, Kubiak was probably in full on "let's end the game injury free" mode.
 
I want to see Case get more snaps, too, but Kubiak isn't trying to hide him from other teams...IMO, he's just trying to end a meaningless preseason game, get out of there without any injuries.

Nobody wants to blow their ACL or snap a bone or joint in the last two minutes of a preseason game. That would really suck.

If Case doesn't put up something really nice, consistently, in these last two games...and IF Beck handles himself well by contrast...then Case will clear waivers and hit our PS.

At this point, I'm wanting to go with veterans: Norris at FB,. Graham at FG, and Beck at QB3. I have no patience for shaky rookies on the active 53...not with what's on the line. Last year, the other 3 AFCS teams sort of snoozed and let their guard down. This year, they all bumped their game up a notch or so, trying to beat US. The time for dabbling with shaky players is over. Go with experience in FB, FG, and QB...because other positions have youth and are doing well (RB, WR, LBs).
 
I don't think either Beck or Keenum qualifies as "Shaky" at this point. They simply haven't had enough snaps to show anything IMO.

The definition of Shaky was how Yates looked against San Fran. In fact, "Earthquake shaky", would be more appropriate given the team we were playing against..

TJ
 
Back
Top