Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

[Corrosion]

Updated list after game 2 (SF). Changes in bold.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Norris
TE – Daniels, Casey, Graham, Brock
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Keenum
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jackson (wr)
Pleasant


Grimes moves ahead of Forsett and Meggett.

I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.

Sonny Harris makes the final 53 over Fangupo who goes to the PS. Harris has been very good two weeks in a row.

Keo gets the last safety spot over Pleasant.

The kicker spot is wide open - leaving Bullock on my 53 for the time being but that is no indication of the eventual winner and subject to change. Depth on KO's is a concern with both IMO.

Having a hard time not putting Nading on the final roster , just dont know who to replace , could come down to him and TE Brock. Is OD , Graham and Casey enough at TE??

Loiseau also looked pretty solid , just no room with the loaded LB corp for him.

Trycycle makes the roster as the KR/PR tho I had him on last weeks roster , his performance Vs SF helps to solidify the spot.

 

[Lucky]

I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.

I think you've got it. I think they will find a blocking TE on the waiver wire.

Also, I don't see Keo making the team, in conjunction with Pleasant on the practice squad. No real need for 6 safeties. I would lean to cutting Keo, and PSing Pleasant. Both are coverage liabilities. Maybe Pleasant can get better.

 

[Corrosion]

I think you've got it. I think they will find a blocking TE on the waiver wire.

Thats what I was thinking .... For now Brock just takes up that spot on my 53.

Also, I don't see Keo making the team, in conjunction with Pleasant on the practice squad. No real need for 6 safeties. I would lean to cutting Keo, and PSing Pleasant. Both are coverage liabilities. Maybe Pleasant can get better.

I only have five safeties on my final 53. Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo with Pleasant landing on the PS. Who's the 6th ?

Dropping Keo could allow for another LBer to make the roster (Nading) ... or even allow them to keep a 3rd QB as I only have two in my 53. Four safeties seems awful thin tho.

There will definately be some difficult cuts to make this season.

 

[Lucky]

I'm not so sure about exposing Grimes. There are some RB hungry teams out there, like Detroit, that might snatch him up.

Detriot has an UDFA RB who ran for 92 yards versus the Ravens. They've got plaenty of back end guys. What they need is Best to get healthy.

Grimes played well last night against a team that had two rb's go down and had another rb that isn't that good.

The Niners will eventually cut a RB (like Dixon or Cartwright) better than Grimes. Grimes might make their practice squad, but not their 53.

 

[Lucky]

I only have five safeties on my final 53. Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo with Pleasant landing on the PS. Who's the 6th ?

No, I meant 6 in the organization (5 on the 53, 1 on the PS). Not really necessary. The Texans went 4 safeties for much of 2011. When Manning and Nolan went down, Demps was brought back. They certainly won't activate 5 safeties. 5 on the 53 seems too many, 6 in the organization feels superfluous.

 

[Rey]

I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.

I think we've leaned on the te's heavily in the past because we needed to.

Our wr's werent really getting it done. We had Aj, kw and jacoby.

Aj gets hurt and you're left with basically nothing.


If Jean and Martin are playing well with posey behind them then all of a sudden you have a more formidable receiving corps and you'd want to get them more involved in the offense.

Some mixture of Aj, Jean, Walter, Martin, OD, Casey, and Arian would be hard to stop no matter which 5 you threw out there.

I dont see the need for another blocking TE. If you want an extra blocker on the line just do what they did last year and bring in an extra OT.

I think Brock, supernaw or derrell smith can be stashed on the ps if need be.

If you have an injury just call one if those guys up.

 

[Rey]

The Niners will eventually cut a RB (like Dixon or Cartwright) better than Grimes. Grimes might make their practice squad, but not their 53.

You need to go to a 9ers message board because they are worried about their rb depth after last night.

And they don't like Dixon or Cartwright.

And neither Dixon or cartwright are better than grimes.

 

[Lucky]

You need to go to a 9ers message board because they are worried about their rb depth after last night.

I don't form my opinions from Niners (or any other) message boards. And I don't think anyone in the NFL believes Grimes is better than Dixon or Cartwright. I guess we shall see.

 

[Marcus]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but as understand it, the only way you make the practice squad is if the other 31 teams don't pick you up after you're waived, correct?

And If that is correct, no way in hell in Keenum gets waived. Kubiak LOVES him to death, and there is no way in hell he is going risk losing him.

Keenum makes the 53. He needed 3 quarterbacks last year, and he'll remember that.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but as understand it, the only way you make the practice squad is if the other 31 teams don't pick you up after you're waived, correct?

And If that is correct, no way in hell in Keenum gets waived. Kubiak LOVES him to death, and there is no way in hell he is going risk losing him.

Keenum makes the 53. He needed 3 quarterbacks last year, and he'll remember that.

Every season there's some player (usually more) that we're afraid is going to get picked off the waiver wire if we cut him. And then the Texans cut him. And he clears waivers and goes to our PS.

Case Keenum did not get drafted. He hasn't shown enough in the limited time he's had in PS to convince anyone that he's not a system QB and that the reasons they didn't draft him are invalid. Sure... I get it... he chose to come to the Texans and he could have signed as an UDFA with several clubs so there are teams with their eyes on him, but if they nab him, then they have to put him on their 53.

Most likely, he clears waivers if he's cut.

 

[76Texan]

Every season there's some player (usually more) that we're afraid is going to get picked off the waiver wire if we cut him. And then the Texans cut him. And he clears waivers and goes to our PS.

Case Keenum did not get drafted. He hasn't shown enough in the limited time he's had in PS to convince anyone that he's not a system QB and that the reasons they didn't draft him are invalid. Sure... I get it... he chose to come to the Texans and he could have signed as an UDFA with several clubs so there are teams with their eyes on him, but if they nab him, then they have to put him on their 53.

Most likely, he clears waivers if he's cut.

He has shown me plenty.

The two incompletions in the Niners game were both pretty close.
I would say if the receivers went up with one hand, they had a decent chance to pull the ball in.

On the long ball, Posey went up with both hands and the ball was off his fingertips.

On the side-line pass, Iglesias started by trying to stretch out both hands; when he finally decided to go with one hand, the ball was also off his fingertips.

Sure, I would have liked the passes to be more accurate, but a receiver like AJ would catch those balls, I'm pretty sure - simply because he's taller/has a better wing span/jumps higher/stretches better, not to mention that he can judge how to go after the ball better (timing).

 

[76Texan]

The most important thing is that Keenum made all the correct reads.
He's playing mistake-free football.

The rest are small details that more reps can cure.

 

[rmartin65]

Keenum threw 3 passes Saturday.

The first was gorgeous. Excellent touch off of the rollout. A smidge behind the receiver (had to catch it in his back shoulder), but if you are critiquing that then you are a pretty tough grader.

The 2nd was an overthrow. He was not throwing it to AJ, he was throwing it to Posey. QBs dont throw the same ball to every player. You throw it differently to small players, tall players, fast players, slow players, etc. It was a bad throw.

The 3rd throw was extremely dangerous, because it was a bad throw. If the receiver had not stretched out to tip it away, that ball is being returned to the house. Case simply led the receiver too far.

It is unrealistic/too nice to Keenum if you excuse all of his incomplete passes by saying that an All-Pro receiver like AJ would catch them. Most QBs would look good if they had a receiving corp of AJ, Megatron and Fitzgerald to throw to.

Now, I am not saying Keenum is a scrub. He has a good arm, and is pretty mobile. But he is short, has had limited reps in the pre-season to unimpressive results, and was skipped over by every team in the draft just a few months ago. Odds are, a team wont use a roster spot on a player like that.

 

[speedfreek]

I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

 

[HOU-TEX]

Is it just me, or have any of y'all been really unimpressed by Bradie James? Dobbins has had an outstanding preseason so far. At this point, I'd rather see him as our 2 down ILB rather than James. I'm not saying we should let James go, but we should give Dobbins a shot if we truly folllow the "best man wins" competition.

 

[76Texan]

I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

I know!
My brother-in-law was furious that Kubiak didn't let people see a little more of Keenum.
Make it hard to evaluate his play.

He did the same thing in the Panthers game.
We had the ball on the Car 19 with 1:38 to go.
Kubiak called a run for Meggett that gained 6 then ordered Keenum to kneel twice to end the game.

 

[76Texan]

Keenum threw 3 passes Saturday.

The first was gorgeous. Excellent touch off of the rollout. A smidge behind the receiver (had to catch it in his back shoulder), but if you are critiquing that then you are a pretty tough grader.

The 2nd was an overthrow. He was not throwing it to AJ, he was throwing it to Posey. QBs dont throw the same ball to every player. You throw it differently to small players, tall players, fast players, slow players, etc. It was a bad throw.

The 3rd throw was extremely dangerous, because it was a bad throw. If the receiver had not stretched out to tip it away, that ball is being returned to the house. Case simply led the receiver too far.

It is unrealistic/too nice to Keenum if you excuse all of his incomplete passes by saying that an All-Pro receiver like AJ would catch them. Most QBs would look good if they had a receiving corp of AJ, Megatron and Fitzgerald to throw to.

Now, I am not saying Keenum is a scrub. He has a good arm, and is pretty mobile. But he is short, has had limited reps in the pre-season to unimpressive results, and was skipped over by every team in the draft just a few months ago. Odds are, a team wont use a roster spot on a player like that.

I've already warned people about overexpectation.
I told Thorn that neither Leinart nor Yates did much last pre-season.
Both of them made the roster.

I just finished reviewing Yates' performance during last PS; I will put it up in a seperate thread and we can compare their plays.

 

[rmartin65]

I've already warned people about overexpectation.
I told Thorn that neither Leinart nor Yates did much last pre-season.
Both of them made the roster.

I just finished reviewing Yates' performance during last PS; I will put it up in a seperate thread and we can compare their plays.

Yates was a 6'4" 5th round draft pick from a college that played a pro style offense. Totally different than Keenum.

Leinart was a Heisman winning, former top 10 draft pick who had started games at the NFL. Again, totally different than Keenum.

 

[Rey]

I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.
TJ

Well, Keenum was played ahead of beck so I don't think that's what he was doing.

Also, in that last game Keenum should see a bunch of action.

 

[76Texan]

Yates was a 6'4" 5th round draft pick from a college that played a pro style offense. Totally different than Keenum.

Leinart was a Heisman winning, former top 10 draft pick who had started games at the NFL. Again, totally different than Keenum.

Even 1st round draft picks got cut if they don't perform.
Plenty of drafted players never made it to the 53-man roster their first year.

 

[rmartin65]

Even 1st round draft picks got cut if they don't perform.
Plenty of drafted players never made it to the 53-man roster their first year.

True, but it DOES matter. If you are a draft pick, you will get more chances than if you are undrafted.

Keenum may make the team- I am not saying he has no chance to. I am just saying that the hype surrounding this kid from UoH grads is getting ridiculous.

Looking strictly at the facts:

Keenum played in a college-style offense that does not easily translate into the pro game.

Keenum is a solid 2 inches shorter than the preferred height for a QB.

Keenum went undrafted just a couple months ago.

Keenum, since going undrafted, has thrown 6 passes in game action, completing 3 for 53 yards. To the best of my knowledge, none of these incompletions was due to a drop by the receiver. At least one could have been picked if not for the play of the receiver.

So, honestly, how much could his stock have risen?

 

[Rey]

3 for 533?!?!??

Oh yeah...he's making the team...

 

[rmartin65]

3 for 533?!?!??

Oh yeah...he's making the team...

Haha, I went back and fixed that. That would certainly be impressive.

 

[76Texan]

At least one could have been picked if not for the play of the receiver.

You may want to rewatch that play, RMartin.

There was a corner blitz going on.
The rest of the defense reverted back into a 42 zone.

Keenum made the correct read, seeing that the RB going downfield with the safety supposedly taking him on (this is the defender that was closest to the ball).

The other defender covering Iglesias was a LB.

Correct read by Keenum.

In the NFL, that is called a wide-open receiver.
You expect the QB to throw the ball there 10 out of 10 times.

The safety made a good read and had a good start; however, if the pass was a few inches closer to the receiver, there's no chance for an INT.
(or if Iglesias had stretched out with one hand from the start).

 

[rmartin65]

You may want to rewatch that play, RMartin.

There was a corner blitz going on.
The rest of the defense reverted back into a 42 zone.

Keenum made the correct read, seeing that the RB going downfield with the safety supposedly taking him on (this is the defender that was closest to the ball).

The other defender covering Iglesias was a LB.

Correct read by Keenum.

In the NFL, that is called a wide-open receiver.
You expect the QB to throw the ball there 10 out of 10 times.

The safety made a good read and had a good start; however, if the pass was a few inches closer to the receiver, there's no chance for an INT.
(or if Iglesias had stretched out with one hand from the start).

I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

 

[Dutchrudder]

I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

Go to the tech section to get a copy of the game...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Is it just me, or have any of y'all been really unimpressed by Bradie James? Dobbins has had an outstanding preseason so far. At this point, I'd rather see him as our 2 down ILB rather than James. I'm not saying we should let James go, but we should give Dobbins a shot if we truly folllow the "best man wins" competition.

I'm not seeing much of anything from James. He's got 3 assists so far this pre-season.

 

[Rey]

I'm not seeing much of anything from James. He's got 3 assists so far this pre-season.

I said it someone on here, but I'm tempted to say dobbins should be the starter next to Cushing.

That missed tackle last game was pretty disturbing too.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I said it someone on here, but I'm tempted to say dobbins should be the starter next to Cushing.

That missed tackle last game was pretty disturbing too.

Yeah. No way that guy should have gotten away from him.

Right now, Dobbins is crushing it. Didn't like the facemask call but at least he's flying around and near the ball.

James, not so much.

 

[Thorn]

As much of a Case Keenum fan as I am, and I am, I have to agree I haven't seen enough yet to justify him being on the final 53 man roster. Then again, the same can be said for Beck.

 

[Rey]

Heard on the radio this morning that a scout from green bay says that if grimes is let go they will definitely pick him up. Fwiw.

 

[speedfreek]

The packers were supposedly one of the teams that made a UDFA offer on Keenum.

From what I've seen this year, they should probably focus more on defensive pickups..

TJ

 

[Texn4life]

I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

 

[Thorn]

I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

I completely agree with this. The four pre-season games are there for a reason, and I would not like them taken away. I'm also against adding any more games to the season. Things are just fine the way they are.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

WE, the fans, need 4 games to figure out who's who and evaluate our team's talent. The coaches don't. They've seen what these guys can do.

According to Billick, by this time, the coaches know 50 of the players that are going to be on the 53. And those last 3 are going to be hard, coin-flip type choices whether they choose now or after the 4th preseason game.

 

[Texn4life]

WE, the fans, need 4 games to figure out who's who and evaluate our team's talent. The coaches don't. They've seen what these guys can do.

According to Billick, by this time, the coaches know 50 of the players that are going to be on the 53. And those last 3 are going to be hard, coin-flip type choices whether they choose now or after the 4th preseason game.

I've heard from plenty of coaches who disagree. You have good practice players and players who simply get it done when the lights come on. By Billick's logic, Victor Cruz would still be some scrub not on a roster.

 

[Thorn]

Who gives a **** what Bellicheat thinks anyhow.

 

[Texn4life]

Who gives a **** what Bellicheat thinks anyhow.

haha, I think he's talking about Brian Billick Thorn. The coach who isn't even a coach right now.

 

[Texn4life]

“Some guys, when the lights go on, they get a little bit better,” Texans coach Gary Kubiak said Sunday. “It seems like this is that type of young man.”

Kubiak's quote about Lestar Jean. You need to see these guys in as many game situations as possible. Tim Tebow is one guy who is simply a gamer. If you judged him simply on practice he wouldn't even be in the league right now.

 

[Thorn]

haha, I think he's talking about Brian Billick Thorn. The coach who isn't even a coach right now.

He is, and my mistake on that one. Still though, no one is talking me out of my belief that only two pre-season games are enough. I don't like the idea of two pre-season games and 18 regular season games. Just don't like it.

And, of course, I hate Bellicheat. Billick is OK as far as a talking head on TV goes, but I don't always agree with what he says.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I've heard from plenty of coaches who disagree. You have good practice players and players who simply get it done when the lights come on. By Billick's logic, Victor Cruz would still be some scrub not on a roster.

You're assuming that Victor Cruz wasn't making the team until he had a big day against the Jets. If he wasn't already performing in camp, that big day wouldn't have gotten him on to the team. You get guys putting on shows in preseason games every year who never make it. Performance in a single game doesn't make someone's career.

Who holds the Texan's record for sacks in a preseason game? IIRC, Stylez G. White had 6 sacks against the Buccs several years ago. Has he turned into a star because of that 1 performance? No. He bounced around and finally stuck with the Buccs for a few years.

And how about 2010 when Cruz had those great performances? Who were the other WRs putting on big shows? Adrian Arrington, Matt Willis, Max Komar. What have they done? Something like 30 passes caught between them over the course of their entire NFL careers so far.

Someone like Victor Cruz having a breakout game against the Jets brings him to the attention of the fans but the coaches on the Giants already knew who he was and what he could do.

 

[Texn4life]

You're assuming that Victor Cruz wasn't making the team until he had a big day against the Jets. If he wasn't already performing in camp, that big day wouldn't have gotten him on to the team. You get guys putting on shows in preseason games every year who never make it. Performance in a single game doesn't make someone's career.

Who holds the Texan's record for sacks in a preseason game? IIRC, Stylez G. White had 6 sacks against the Buccs several years ago. Has he turned into a star because of that 1 performance? No. He bounced around and finally stuck with the Buccs for a few years.

And how about 2010 when Cruz had those great performances? Who were the other WRs putting on big shows? Adrian Arrington, Matt Willis, Max Komar. What have they done? Something like 30 passes caught between them over the course of their entire NFL careers so far.

Someone like Victor Cruz having a breakout game against the Jets brings him to the attention of the fans but the coaches on the Giants already knew who he was and what he could do.

Victor Cruz caught Rex Ryan's attention who said that if he was released they were going to sign him. He wouldn't have even known who he was had he not had that big game against him. Is Rex Ryan just a fan? To think that a player can't catch the attention of his coach when the real bullets are flying is silly. I just quoted Kubiak talking about Jean. He's had his struggles in camp at times so far, but he just makes plays when then lights are on. Its one thing to look at stats, but its a completely different monster to EVALUATE talent during a game. I hate fantasy football because it's all about stats.

The Giants also said that Victor Cruz probably wasn't going to make the team before that big game. They were too scared to release him because they knew someone was going to pick him up after that. Preseason means a lot for players.

 

[Texn4life]

He is, and my mistake on that one. Still though, no one is talking me out of my belief that only two pre-season games are enough. I don't like the idea of two pre-season games and 18 regular season games. Just don't like it.

And, of course, I hate Bellicheat. Billick is OK as far as a talking head on TV goes, but I don't always agree with what he says.

I don't agree with Billick most of the time. To me, he was overrated as a head coach which is probably why he still doesn't have a head coaching job. I don't want to derail the thread though, but he's the Skip Bayless of former head coaches in my opinion. I take what he says with a grain of salt because I think he says a lot of things for shock value.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Victor Cruz caught Rex Ryan's attention who said that if he was released they were going to sign him. He wouldn't have even known who he was had he not had that big game against him. Is Rex Ryan just a fan? To think that a player can't catch the attention of his coach when the real bullets are flying is silly. I just quoted Kubiak talking about Jean. He's had his struggles in camp at times so far, but he just makes plays when then lights are on. Its one thing to look at stats, but its a completely different monster to EVALUATE talent during a game. I hate fantasy football because it's all about stats.

The Giants also said that Victor Cruz probably wasn't going to make the team before that big game. They were too scared to release him because they knew someone was going to pick him up after that. Preseason means a lot for players.

Who does Rex Ryan coach? The Jets. Who has he been seeing in practice every day? The Jets. Has he been seeing the Giant's players? No. He knows about as much about the Giants players as a regular fan does. A hardcore Giants fan knows more about the Giants roster than Rex Ryan does. Rex Ryan doesn't have enough time in his day to be going over every team in the NFL and learning every player on them.

And who on the Giants said that Victor Cruz wasn't going to make the team before that big game? I'd like to see that quote.

Right here and right now, most of us hardcore Texans fans can sit down and name 40-45 of the guys who are going to be on the Texans squad at the beginning of the season and be dead-on. We're going to over-value some guys and we're going to undervalue other guys because we base our judgments almost entirely on the preseason games. But even with that, most of us will agree on the core of the team and argue over 7-8 positions. You're basically telling me you think the COACHES know less than we do? The coaches see more than we do and they know more than we do. They know if they're thinking about making moves and they know if some guy isn't performing.

I'm not saying that these games aren't important to the fringe players. They are. But the majority of the evaluation is done on the practice field.

 

[Texn4life]

Who does Rex Ryan coach? The Jets. Who has he been seeing in practice every day? The Jets. Has he been seeing the Giant's players? No. He knows about as much about the Giants players as a regular fan does. A hardcore Giants fan knows more about the Giants roster than Rex Ryan does. Rex Ryan doesn't have enough time in his day to be going over every team in the NFL and learning every player on them.

And who on the Giants said that Victor Cruz wasn't going to make the team before that big game? I'd like to see that quote.

Right here and right now, most of us hardcore Texans fans can sit down and name 40-45 of the guys who are going to be on the Texans squad at the beginning of the season and be dead-on. We're going to over-value some guys and we're going to undervalue other guys because we base our judgments almost entirely on the preseason games. But even with that, most of us will agree on the core of the team and argue over 7-8 positions. You're basically telling me you think the COACHES know less than we do? The coaches see more than we do and they know more than we do. They know if they're thinking about making moves and they know if some guy isn't performing.

I'm not saying that these games aren't important to the fringe players. They are. But the majority of the evaluation is done on the practice field.

It was said plenty last year that he wasn't likely to be on their team before that game.

But I will give you this story straight from someone who's played the game. Mike Tolbert of the Panters (formerly the Chargers) didn't raise any eyebrows during training camp and the Chargers were only planning on keeping 1 fullback. He had a couple of really good preseason games and ended up playing a big role for them that year.

Guys catch the attention of coaches during the games. What good is a player if he can't produce when the lights come on? I know guys who have been in coaching rooms during evaluation. Preseason matters for the guys on the back end of the roster. Hell, it matters for guys on the front end for the roster as well. If you can find a player whose contract is a lot less than a veteran, produces just as much, and is younger then you go with the cheaper option. You are going to find these things out when the bullets start flying. Practice can only tell you so much.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

It was said plenty last year that he wasn't likely to be on their team before that game.

But I will give you this story straight from someone who's played the game. Mike Tolbert of the Panters (formerly the Chargers) didn't raise any eyebrows during training camp and the Chargers were only planning on keeping 1 fullback. He had a couple of really good preseason games and ended up playing a big role for them that year.

Guys catch the attention of coaches during the games. What good is a player if he can't produce when the lights come on? I know guys who have been in coaching rooms during evaluation. Preseason matters for the guys on the back end of the roster. Hell, it matters for guys on the front end for the roster as well. If you can find a player whose contract is a lot less than a veteran, produces just as much, and is younger then you go with the cheaper option. You are going to find these things out when the bullets start flying. Practice can only tell you so much.

So, answer me this... who said it? Who said Victor Cruz wasn't making the team before that game? Who said Mike Tolbert wasn't making the Chargers before flashing in the pre-season games?

 

[Texn4life]

So, answer me this... who said it? Who said Victor Cruz wasn't making the team before that game? Who said Mike Tolbert wasn't making the Chargers before flashing in the pre-season games?

Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

As far as Victor Cruz goes, there were plenty of pieces on ESPN, Fox, etc last year talking about how that game propelled him. Without him producing in the preseason he isn't on that team. They were looking for someone to step up. He did. You want guys to make the team in the games. We talkin' about practice? Not the games, not the games but practice?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

As far as Victor Cruz goes, there were plenty of pieces on ESPN, Fox, etc last year talking about how that game propelled him. Without him producing in the preseason he isn't on that team. They were looking for someone to step up. He did. You want guys to make the team in the games. We talkin' about practice? Not the games, not the games but practice?

So how many pre-season games did they need? All 4?

Victor Cruz went off in the 1st game of the preseason against the Jets. First game. He didn't need all 4.

Tolbert? In his first pre-season, he went 5 rushes for 22 yards. Not exactly blowing things up. And his second year, he had 3 rushes for < 20 yards and no rushes in the all-important 3rd game. Gartrell Johnson and Michael Bennett blew up in pre-season for the Chargers that year when it came to rushing. If Mike Tolbert blew up in preseason, it was after Tomlinson was a Jet.

And that brings up... Gartrell Johnson. Leading the Chargers in rushing in the preseason in 2009 and spends the year with the Giants. The next year with the Falcons. And then he's out of football with 23 career rushes and 79 career yards to his name.

 

[Texn4life]

So how many pre-season games did they need? All 4?

Victor Cruz went off in the 1st game of the preseason against the Jets. First game. He didn't need all 4.

Tolbert? In his first pre-season, he went 5 rushes for 22 yards. Not exactly blowing things up. And his second year, he had 3 rushes for < 20 yards and no rushes in the all-important 3rd game. Gartrell Johnson and Michael Bennett blew up in pre-season for the Chargers that year when it came to rushing. If Mike Tolbert blew up in preseason, it was after Tomlinson was a Jet.

And that brings up... Gartrell Johnson. Leading the Chargers in rushing in the preseason in 2009 and spends the year with the Giants. The next year with the Falcons. And then he's out of football with 23 career rushes and 79 career yards to his name.

If there were only 2 preseason games you think Victor Cruz gets that same opportunity to shine? No, because the starters would play more. Your argument about the games not mattering is silly. You can continue to throw all these stats out there but you don't know what you're talking about.

Tolbert had an awesome preseason as a blocker his rookie year. Your precious stats won't show you that though. They let Lorenzo Neal go and went with Pinnock and Hester at fullback for a few years. LT was with Tolbert the last 2 years he was in San Diego. How are you going to tell me he didn't have a good preseason while he was there? He made the team by his performance in the preseason. Listen man, stats don't always tell the whole story. If you don't know that then your knowledge as a fan is severely lacking.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

If there were only 2 preseason games you think Victor Cruz gets that same opportunity to shine? No, because the starters would play more. Your argument about the games not mattering is silly. You can continue to throw all these stats out there but you don't know what you're talking about.

Tolbert had an awesome preseason as a blocker his rookie year. Your precious stats won't show you that though. They let Lorenzo Neal go and went with Pinnock and Hester at fullback for a few years. LT was with Tolbert the last 2 years he was in San Diego. How are you going to tell me he didn't have a good preseason while he was there? He made the team by his performance in the preseason. Listen man, stats don't always tell the whole story. If you don't know that then your knowledge as a fan is severely lacking.

At least be consistent:

Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

Did he have a great pre-season as a blocker or was he not a striker as a fullback? Which was it?

And I did some research on Victor Cruz. You're absolutely right. BUT you're also absolutely wrong.

I guess Victor Cruz wasn't doing it in practice and training camp for the Giants. As a matter of fact (if rumor is to be believed), the coaches wanted to cut him even after that great preseason. That feeds in to what I was saying, flashing in the games doesn't make that big of a difference to the coaches. Even after that huge preseason he had, the coaches were going to waive him. They thought he needed more time on the practice squad.

But the owners and front office heard they were going to cut Cruz and they came to Cruz's rescue because they knew he wouldn't clear waivers and they didn't want him to become a Jet. And Rex Ryan had said he'd sign him if he got cut.

So, you're right about Cruz getting saved and how. But that story also proves my point. In almost all cases, putting up some gaudy stats in the preseason won't get you a job unless you're showing you're a professional in practice.